Outstanding Teachers at the University; Art Education

And today, I'm talking with Mary Sue Foster from the Art Education department, who's going to tell us a little bit about about the perspective that she has on teaching and continuing in on our discussion of the outstanding teachers. Welcome. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here. You know in the length of the time that I've been teaching at Wichita State, which it's been about fifteen years, I've seen some changes in my own teaching. I think when I first came, maybe for the first five years even, I was a checkoff person. You know someone really keeping track of whether this student had done this and how many points did I award on that, and keeping calm a tally book and a checkoff person and my student evaluations really were not what I would like for them to be. And reading the comments and looking at the responses they had to the way the course was being conducted, I decided they needed more options and more choices and, after all, are people know that adults like choices and like options even if you're a twelve-year-old adult [laughter].

So that really had some influence on the way I've changed, and maybe in the early 70s, I started making this kind of a change where options were provided and of course I'm working with art students who are good at projects and want to do projects, rather than having tests for example. So, I've come around to calling my strategy negotiated projects. I have worked out sort of a system of part of the course content, I have to know whether they've learned it or not, and we're using, in one of my classes, a textbook that reflexs some civility, reflects some hard work and new language and students need handles, so I've developed some semi-notes for example to to help them get through that text and help us with our class discussions. But they get to assess where their needs are, what would they like-

where would they like to be at the end of the term, and where would they like to be in a year from now. And you know, I work with graduate students who've been teaching a couple of years, and that same strategy of goal seeking- I was going to say goal setting is a unique opportunity that most kids don't have in most classes. Well, I feel like everyone must do it. I'm doing it. I've been doing it for ten years, and I can't- it's a neat way to make the class have a wholeness, for a student to make some choices about what would they like to have or where would they like to be at the end. But to have a graduate students set some goals and they'd never really done that before as a 24 year old teacher out in the public schools, to come in and say, 'well, I guess I'm going to be teaching for another 20 years, so what would I like to do in this class?' is a question that they need to ask themselves. And I think it helps give the whole teaching perspective, well it gives me some insights into where they are, not just assuming that that's what they've done. You have a different perspective, I think, on things

because you teach teachers art. Yes, well I work with students who have had maybe 20 or 30 hours of art and come into a curriculum-building class and they- it's the easiest thing in the world is just go out and have everybody turn into something like yourself, you know. They can go out and teach the students that they're in charge who are younsters to be like them, but they're lucky. If 2% of children in each class will continue making art and pursuing it as something that they will do as an adult, really, at 2-5% of those students that they'll have contact with, so obviously they can't teach the way they were taught. They've got to have a lot of perspectives and a lot of options also for their students. Sometimes, maybe they are really good at painting watercolor, but

they decided that's their whole- their course in when they're teaching in public schools might be oriented toward drawing painting or printmaking and maybe watercolor but they'll have many students who are in homes that don't have paintings on the walls, and it's possible that a picture might go up, you know, in the eyes of the student as well as another reason and to look at it. Maybe it's to be made fun of, or maybe it's up there for ridicule. Cover a hole in the wall. Well, right. And so, making something to wear might be more appropriate for that particular student than to make something that goes on the wall and so the students that are good at drawing, painting, they need to have some craft skills, and they need to have ways to look at art. The museum belongs to all the people here in the city and not just a few elite people that happen to have some interest in our education and are well-traveled. So,

art students have to kind of go through a transition period, I think, when they decide they'd like to be art teachers, and I get a big kick out of helping them to do that. Do you treat your art teacher people differently than you would a normal studen- I mean is there some feeling that you have for the student making them different when they're in art education as a major versus just say a student that would just be in art? Well, they're very special people, the student who wants to be a teacher, and also is pretty talented. I think they're special because they're going to have to be of service. And an artist has to fight or an art teacher maybe has to fight a selfishness. We all are selfish. Of your interests. Yeah, you know, not to give up the time and the energy to work for how to interest someone else in the same way that you're interested and committed. It does take

an unselfish attitude. So I think, if someone has decided they really like people, they want to nurture and nourish, and watch them grow, and watch them change, and watch them gain confidence, and watch them feel adequate when they felt inadequate. Those are special people. I don't think I treat them differently, but I do feel people are special when they want to be a teacher and work in the public setting. And become an interpreter and become a change agent. That's kind of a new world that's floating around these days. But in a sense, they're kind of in a transition place they're working with the public, you know, let's say teenagers or youth, and they know a lot about an area, such as art, looking at art, making art and they're an in-between person themselves. You're basic philosophy of teaching, how would you? I think that my philosophy reflects the

being a resource person, rather than someone who is a dominant. I like my students to be comfortable in my class. I like them to use me as a guide. I like for them to see me as someone who's been there already. For example, in a class I teach, also for teachers, where we're working with weaving and braiding and all kinds of techniques that are appropriate for the classroom using fibers, I've made all the mistakes that they're going to make, and probably made a few more then they'll make and I want them to sometimes see those mistakes as challenges and as opportunities and getting them to come around and, you know, show me the tangles and let me help them out. Lots of times they'd rather just fuss and fuss and fuss with it. I see myself as a guide, someone who's offer to have some information to help them. And also adaptable because

you've adapted to the students' needs in a lot of ways. And I think I'm flexible and I want them to be flexible also. What are some of the better things- what sort of things are rewarding for you? I mean I realize that teaching students is a reward in itself. What sustains me in teaching? That's a good question. I've thought about that. I've been in the classroom, even before I came to Wichita State, so that's approximately 18 years. I've been working with people. I knew more about something that they didn't know and [inaudible]. And I think, the change- the opportunity to invent and the opportunity to start over again with a new group of people and to share information about a subject that I know more about than they know a little bit about, and the opportunity to invent something, to refine an idea, to see it grow and develop. The changes that are possible in the classroom. That's

what I like. You start a semester in September, then you get to start again in January. And even if you make a mistake along the way, you can correct it. And you can build on strengths that you see developing, minimize the weaknesses. Interesting. So change that is probably not too many other kinds of things I could do and I'd be able to have change with people. That really is the difference is I like to work with people, and the people's faces that keep changing and yet and they continue to keep up with me. A big thrill is to see a student who I'd known five years ago, and then read about them or maybe run into them again or they contact me and you know, there are art teachers working with very limited resources and too see them again in professional meetings, and to find out how they're doing, that's a thrill. What's your student?

What would describe a best student? Yeah, outstanding student. What makes an outstanding student in your class? I think a student who well, there's these words that shows initiative, they're innovative, they work hard, they're dedicated, they go beyond the minimum assignment. I wish that I could just be a little bit more descriptive but an outstanding student is someone who does go beyond what is there before them. You know, willing to take some risks might describe a good student. Willing to try something new. And willing to try something new, right. And especially in a course where I negotiate with them what they might do to earn an 'A' or to earn a 'B' or to earn a 'C' has to do with quality and quantity. Most all teachers would agree to that. And a student who

takes permission to develop their own project and then do well with it. Do you find that, when you do that, that you appreciate the self-directed student in that type of environment where they say 'I'd like to do this and I just like'- you say you'd like to be a resource. Yes, I can operate like that. You'd like to be less active and you'd like to see them self-motivate and self-actualized. That's right. That's a goal that I have. The art students that I work with are going to have to be planning and generating ideas for their own students, and they should get started now. Just because you graduate and have a certificate your hand, doesn't mean necessarily that you then are capable of planning for 30 students every hour. That's interesting. How do you prepare for a particular class? In other words, what kind of preparations do you go through to teach? Well, this may shock you, but I really liked to just pretend that I hadn't taught the class before and start over again,

rather than just pulling out my notebook from the last term. That's a lot of work. It is, but of course I can't help but reflect on the things that were good and the things that worked and to use those again, but I do like to reassign and start over again. Make it new. Mhmm. Interesting. I thank you very much for being here. It's been a pleasure. Thank you very much. I've been speaking with Mary Sue Foster, another in our continuing series on outstanding teachers. I thank you very much. This has been University in you Community. My name is Dave Cosloy, and we've had production by Eric Lockmiller. [music] [music] [music]