Viewfinder; Los Braceros; Yakima - Guitar, Juan

An I know they're not they're not they're cool. It's own life. I've seen others or they're really intense. Yeah. We're talking about a 10 percent recognition and my question is do you think there's any chance that some of that money will be made in this isn't it. Well it's a good question I I spent almost three years working on this. Working through the through the archives and a couple trips to Mexico trips to Mexico City trying to sort of track down an I don't know where it went but when the when the lawsuit is filed I think the. The ninth circuit court in San Francisco when the hearings are held on this case the judge although he

dismisses the case. The case against the U.S. government the Mexican government. Wells Fargo Bank and the two banks in Mexico. He did say in his opinion that he had no that there was no question in his mind. But the men are owed some of them and all this money. So I think that that that that opinion of the court and and perhaps the work and I of that that I and others have done as well is behind the recent appropriation by the Mexican government. As you know to begin to to to make good on this on on what is owed to these men an estimate of maybe $3000 per individual. The problem is this is that what I said Alice. If it falls on them to provide the evidence that that they were actually were but I suppose that's very very difficult because the these men that

are coming in and farming in general is record keeping is this terrible. Unlike railroad workers where the records of work where are much clear and definitive there but for agricultural work. These workers were not kept. So it's very difficult to sort of trace the path of where that money went. I should say that that I often get calls. From individuals and in other states other parts of the country. And then they learn of my work and they say Well my my father or my grandfather. I was one of those men that worked in the Pacific Northwest. Can you help us with these records because you want to take advantage of the software Nixon government which why the way it's going to expire very soon if it hasn't expired already. And there's there's no indication or promise that there will be another cycle where the men can come forward. Hopefully that will be

their families or their families can yes just like I said that yes some of then the ones that were contracted in in the at the start of the war they are up there in their late 80s early 90s the survivors and for them the the time they have left to to recover these earnings is were short. One question question for you. As you said if an occasion is here is the experience of being on the railroads versus working in the fields. Obviously there are some obvious differences which is considered that easy not as hard as you know maybe working on a resume or you know what was the fundamental difference in culturally Is there a difference. Well I don't look there was. Time works on the minds of a lot of these elderly men and it works in this way. There's a certain nostalgia when you

reflect back on your time as a contracted worker but also when you reach this state in life 80s 90s you're reluctant to share those experiences sometimes are reluctant to share those experiences that were part full and painful. You ask a person what you're treated bad. Well I personally was not treated better but I heard of others who were. So I don't think that if you were a contract to do agricultural work or contracted to do railroad work there was much difference. But on the other hand both occupations are terrible their arduous Dirty Jobs. But on the other hand there are some some differences. The agricultural workers were housed in

sometimes in Mobile camps sometimes or they are housed in in in permanent camps as they are called. These are well defined camps that have recreation halls. Sometimes they had small businesses. They were camps that had been left over from the Farm Security Administration. There are two of these and there were two of these in Yakima County was one was close to the airport in the tandem and the other was and in Granger about seven miles from where we are this morning. And then there were others throughout the Pacific Northwest. The sound. Yeah it was not with my moving with the shirt. Our cell phone. Somewhere in the building. Some security. Yeah sometimes it's like some library here. OK.

Well the question was you know what about the response to say I'm so I'm still jesting with your sense this morning right. I was giving you a hard time about how much I'm not worth my life liberty OK. Oh yes did you know what. You know just want to. Ok will do. Once again we were talking about what you were talking about with me that I had mentioned earlier with the Bill of. Rights you know you look back on experiences of the positive and not let go a lot of the so-called bad just bad. Yes. Something else. Right. Yes. I got a few here and there.

It happens I think you get to the point where you are yet on the years that you've got a brain. I get the filter to stop that I don't that's fine. I think you have a funny feeling. A true reflection. I would agree just as a conjecture because I imagine on the other hand that these were the times painful and horrific experiences and stays with the with the person throughout their lives. But I think for some these are as I said unpleasant. Chapters in their lives and

it is at times difficult to to reflect back on the times when you are mistreated or oppressed and so forth. I think that that in part is true as at least man this communicates gets gets older. It's more difficult to extract the real experience very different from interviewing a young person perhaps in their 30s or 40s which is similar to the work that that national asset did in his book Merchants of labor there you you really get an idea of how difficult it was for these men to write because there's lots of bad things are not saying you know and I think it's because of that filter of memory in recent times. Yes I mean it's.

There is a a good number of men that are contracted to do railroad work and it's highly dangerous particularly during during the war. And as the war begins to to develop and and draw the energies of the country railroads become even more critical because everything is moved by by train at the time. 1940s. There is no this this the trucking business is in its infancy and gasoline is rationed and so everything moves by by train is very critical and the best equipment is useless without a a a well maintained a ribbon of track. And there's a hierarchy within the railroad industry. Maybe at the very top are the administrators and then maybe they're the engineer or the guy that drives them. The person

that that that life drives some locomotive Maybe the conductor or the fireman the signalman and so forth. Then there are two elements of track labor and one is our section hands. These are people that tend a particular section of the railroad. And they're responsible for that maybe it's 60 miles from where we are. And they but they remain in a community. And then there's another group of workers they're called Extra gang workers. And these are men that are that are literally convene in Idaho one day in Spokane The next thing they are on are in boxcars and they're being moved wherever they are wherever they are needed wherever there's an emergency at the rail or the railroad shifts in here which shifts a lot because of the of the climate is it is it is it is a ground phrase and then a thousand spraying that tends to lift the railroad ties and the railroad track must be leveled again. So the trains can use it.

And the heavier the track of the railroad the more damage on the track the heavier the train it should sing. So it it it takes constant maintenance. This is very hard arduous work it's all it's all labor. Unlike today. This is the least desirable type of work. So the the dust settles that come to the Pacific Northwest are doing both of that they're doing every cultural work as well as his railroad work which we're asking about about their experiences doing doing this type of work. And I started by saying that it's this highly dangerous and indeed as it is very dangerous. The people walked around railroad cars there are no there's no braking mechanism once the car is away from the locomotive and it can be in it because it rolls so easy it is extremely dangerous you never want to

cross in front of a whale of a railroad car or in front of it. But the men coming from Mexico are working with with very antiquated railroad and equipment. When they did work with the railroad most of them came without experience. It's a narrower gauge reading outdated equipment and they come here and the technology with regard to the railroad industry produces these powerful machines that are moving from coast to coast running day and night heavy heavy trains. And they they construct the main lines which have a dual track and sometimes you what train is going in one direction and sometimes they're meeting at one point and they're going in opposite directions. So there's a saying among railroad workers is that you see it before you hear it. And what that means is that before you hear the train the train is on you.

And the the number of fatalities men that are killed literally literally litters the railroad tracks and you find that there was a an agreement between. It's called a gentleman's agreement. It's not an official agreement it was an agreement between Mexico and United States that in case of death the surviving the survivors or the heir to this person's belongings. I'm reticent to use the word estate because these were very poor men but the survivors were offered one hundred fifty dollars but they were offered one hundred fifty dollars only if they agreed that the body would be interned in the United States sparing the expense to both governments of returning the body back to Mexico. So a lot of these men actually

are buried in unmarked graves in the small communities throughout the Pacific Northwest and I would venture to say California other parts where these men are engaged in real world work. There is a lot of loss of of of limbs if you can imagine you lose an arm. And you receive maybe a hundred dollars and these are the kinds of this is sort of the underneath history of this but I said a program that I was that we were talking about earlier. Yes but isn't that the part that does not get out. There were men who who became mentally ill though the emotional stress was so great and we know that they were confined in

in in this in insane asylums. And there they are there they become so Weiland so traumatic as a result of their mental illness that they are sent back to Mexico in straitjackets and they are delivered across the border and then they are they are turned over to the Mexican government. I think it's a tremendous difficulty in leaving your family or a place that's me. Especially if you're an Indigenous person. Let's start with how difficult it is in this area. Yes I'm a psychologist now recognize the immigrant syndrome and a curse. It's evident across many immigrant communities in it and it comes from that to to adjust. I mentioned that the trauma of of cultural dislocation being away from your family particularly You asked earlier

about the difference are in the south west of the Pacific Northwest imagine coming to a place like Yakima County where there is no reference point for you. And it must have been very very difficult may mean that a settlement Basile for Austin Texas on his day off can go to a Mexican restaurant a Mexican moving. But that is not here. There are no phones or no Internet. Sanford University some years ago discovered or was given a package of letters some of them are from the Pacific Northwest. And these were the letters that are that are are being sent from the men back to their families. They had never been delivered. And there's some evidence that the letters had been opened. There was some peer of subversive a subversive element imbedded in this mess at a labor force

during the war. So at many levels it's it's it's a bad experience. But also as I said earlier they do make a difference in the during the war and in the post-war period. And perhaps that's why an emergency war program this supposed to last for four years one thousand forty one thousand forty five of the war ends in 1945 and for all practical purposes the US had a program should have terminated them but yet it continues until the Kenya administration 1064 all of us adults are not generally are not used up in the Pacific Northwest that they are largely in the American southwest at that point in the war but a good thing. All right that was great. Good. So you are one good boy

arceo. My mother would say. My good friend give us your permission song likeness everything on camera. Yes thank you very much. And if you have an official title What would you like to be. You can be called anything you know. I guess. Just a person just a person. I'm a songwriter and I like to have been trying to document part of my story of my family and I come from a migrant family so I see myself kind of like a farm worker. If I'm working it's going to be called the migrant farm workers migrant farm workers

everywhere. You know like all over the country in different states. We used to have like a migrant cycle going from Texas to Minnesota too. Return to Texas. I mean. Way back before. But that's the form that they used to tell their stories that were written in the 40s when the program started in history. The program. Pointed out to me that there were some of those who were kind of like.

They talked about but they were really talking about the legal. Persons who were coming across. They were not really referring to people that were actual programs. Today what is its significance going to be singing a song. And this has to do with them coming across by train and a program started started coming across by train through El Paso. And then I'm going to sing which like I said is from the 40s. It actually had 23 vs.. You don't have to quit any time you know you just tell your story for as long as it goes on. When you read all the 23 verses you're able to get a glimpse of. The whole trip. Starting from the train trip when they left what they went to do in this particular scent they were talking

about going to sugar beets which is that. And that was one of the most arduous work that was performed by the by anyone migrants are. It involved a little short one. And. So that means it was like labor you know they had to be stupid. And it also talked about the. The motives for coming over some of the men seem to be coming over to actually make money and they had a sense of pride. It is kind of like Mexico in that they were coming for this program and with a sense of pride that they would perform his work in a manner that.

Would honor Mexico in a sense and briefly reflect on the country by their good work. And he talked about others that had come into the country and probably just desert. And I think referred to him in an interview about a 12 percent. That came over. Just addresses that and I think that some of them and also the feelings. Actually you know this is something. Actually using the words.

It seems like. It's just one. Carry.

On.

Oh yeah. Yeah.