An hour with Martin Dempsey Memorial Day

for mccain auditorium at kansas state university at our present an hour with general martin dempsey i'm kate mcintyre as chairman of the joint chiefs of staff dempsey is the highest ranking military officer in the us armed forces and is the principle military advisor to the president the secretary of defense and the national security council before becoming chairman he served as the army's thirty seven's chief of staff nancy spoke a kansas state university on october first two thousand twelve this fifty one hundred fifty first landon lecture on public affairs kansas state university thanks so much for and be delighted honor to be here to be part of the landon lecture series maron joins me and were in the midst of travel across the country i have i've been trying to get her for some time actually and this year we finally were able to accomplish the task i come here just by coincidence on the day that i began my second year as the chairman of the joint chiefs' i became the chairman

now one year ago today and that i'm honored to fill that position and at this time in our nation's history and to represent but more than two million men and women in uniform and probably twice that when you count their families and some of those great americans are here today let's ask you all to stand up one more time if you're here in uniform standards so the rest of the community around four it's beans for those who currently serving thirty first on us yet again for those you currently serving duty first now i was with the big red one in afghanistan last month for those who that are serving elsewhere thanks for that as well and for opening what you've got frame here in this audience it is probably the senior i was going to say all this but i didn't like the way that was gonna sound

serving activity astronaut action there's a handful of only a handful that are more similar older than thirty eight years of service and i'm guessing we get a couple of freshmen could answer my promise is we will leave something for you to do so president chose jackie hartmann adds states seeking staff and faculty thanks for inviting me here and thanks for what you do that the other reason i'm glad to be here on the one yr anniversary of nurseries that this is gonna talk a little bit about the relationship of the country to its many women uniform and i can't think of anything where that relationship is so powerful than right here in manhattan kansas between an including the relationship between kansas state university and the united states army at fort riley kansas whether it's health of the force connections whether it's unmanned aerial systems or whether it's education in general i really i really appreciate what this community and his university do

for those who serve a mindful of the legacy of alf landon by the way as you know is among those modern city speakers who have been here with you and harvesters and seven president several of my predecessors in nineteen sixty six alf landon presented the first of those lectures are what would become those lectures and it was titled new challenges of international relations well i would venture to say that wheat to serve in an era in our history where we have our fair share of new challenges and international relations all mention a few of them not by way of being able to go into any detail about them i could certainly address some of them in the q and a show but by way of showing how these security challenges will bridge to the conversation i want to have a view about america's relationship with men and women in uniform i'd say i describe one of

these new international relations challenges as a security guard actually live in an era where were at an evolutionary low and violence i mean there are people who are studying a city at colleges and universities around the country and they've concluded that we are literally at an evolutionary lone violin stayed on state conflict is far less likely than it has been in the past the problem is the other kinds of conflict other kinds of violence are exponentially more likely as technology spreads as the information age allows organizations and individuals middleweight nation's fuel to have capabilities that heretofore were the purview of major nation states so it's a paradox in some way a paradox being nation on nation state and state large conflict is less likely not completely unlikely but less likely but the chance of violence and those using violence for ideological and other purposes is

exponentially greater the arab spring and what it will bring the arab spring as many of you have seen and probably are studying will introduce a steer a period of instability is introducing a period of instability i think that in the long run it has a very good chance of producing stability but getting from here to there will be a challenge for not only the united states but the region and i would venture to say the globe iran's nuclear ambitions which will have to be considered in any strategy they're both we are partners in the middle east to take upon ourselves in the future shifting trends global trends really their calling our attention to the pacific economic demographic and military trends and as you know our new defense strategy seeks to address those shifting global trends cybersecurity cyber is the new domain if you will win though maine air domain maritime domain cyber domain and reaps we have both incredible

opportunities and cyber and we also have some significant vulnerabilities inside and the fiscal environment anybody in the room thinks that my defense budget is going to go up in the next several years they show me your hands and i'd like to know what a bar and grill you happen to frequent i know that he knows probably just about to open and i'd say back if i see your hand or maybe even having to many of those maple bacon donuts that i've heard so much about we are living in a new fiscal environment and the dip and read those of us who serve in the department which i serve will have to be part of solving helping the nation sell and that where we are hard at that and that it had been talking about that if you're interested i am not a fan of this as poetry i like to sit down on a lot of different academic areas mostly

keep my mind sharp and make sure that we're not missing some way to articulate the challenges in front of us and try to seek some of those solutions i read recently that danish physicist their buck and the sand pile theory simple theory that this guy doesn't have much to do is around here doing exactly this way but he he built sand piles a grain at a time until they collapsed and he did this over a period of time to try to determine if there was a way to project when the sand pile would collapse and what they concluded is that what happens in terms of the sand pile is more important than what happens to an ex journalist annie describe that as an apple will dynamism i think we live in a period where we're going to prove to ourselves that pair by pat about right very uncertain times reminds me though as well that we're not the first ones to confront many of these challenges in these uncertainties in these huge tectonic shifts one of my predecessors as army chief of staff and

this memorandum to his subordinates in august of nineteen forty five in the next year will cut the military and half will reach all the defense industrial base for a wartime footing to a confident and we must account for increasing us interests in the pacific signed george c marshall so maybe after all we're not facing anything entirely new they do say if you want a new idea a regional bloc said you better start reading look we can explore any all those there are matured a bit in the next few minutes i'd like to explore a different kind of challenging relationship and that is the relationship of america with those in the notes or you know relationships arrival challenging i was at any interaction you heard that i served during operation desert storm in nineteen ninety one and i remember that was the days before texting and

skype thing in and facebooking and face timing and in the words that and just today that didn't just today the truth in nineteen ninety one recent we sent letters back and forth to each other and i would pass and you know you'd be answering questions from two letters are gonna just it really was pretty challenging actual we what we did it but it was challenging i remember this one particular letter word that mcguffin be inundated said you know i'm so miserable without you it's almost as though you're actually right here with me i thought to myself boy i hope she get that second structured wrong because i was on the big trouble when i come back come back home but relationships are challenging you know you've seen it inside your own family's extremely we have relationships around the world but i'm suggesting to that the relationship of america and its many women in uniform is good could be better could be a little deeper and we

can take it for granted and so i want to talk about it you know we are i i grew up in bayonne new jersey nineteen fifty two just after that a group of men mostly in those days have come back from war were too and so i saw how their image the image of the veteran war two were shaped not just by then but by the society into which they were absorbed i saw the same thing after korea someone i saw the same thing at the riyadh mama saw the same thing after desert storm and what i'm suggesting here is we ought to be thinking about now what is the image what is the veteran that you the american people many of the orbiter will be veterans and it's gotten me into a street in answering that question the veterans themselves can answer york and you answered by yourselves and we needed after that now some of you might know is some of the older folks in the audience who were not admit that but some of you might know that in

this month thirty five years ago october of nineteen seventy seven my favorite rock band back to the music connection my favorite rock band the who recorded what i think is potentially the one of the best rock songs of all times called who are you if you're never the story and some of you may hear towns in the lead guitarist and vocalist was gone through this inner struggle about who he was because he says in one of the lyrics i must have lost my direction cause i ended up a superstar and you know having some significant problems in his life that he was trying to capture in that song who are you marvel know this song because it's also the theme song of crime scene investigators the csi series as probably where you really oh listen to the lyrics on time and i would suggest to you that you might ask who are you know you really ought to know because as i said

you will define those of you in uniform and those of you not in uniform you want to find today's veterans as previous generations have to find veterans and their time no one level we're america's sons and daughters from all across the country from all walks of life from myriad backgrounds as i mentioned over two million active guard and reserve proud to wear the plot of the nation proudly represented and to go wherever and do whatever we need to do to serve in peace and war that's endured at another level there are some things that are different about our service now things that you really ought to know about where an all volunteer force it rolls off the tongue was a really mean we're an all volunteer force some of you may know that only one in four of america's young men women can pass the entrance requirements to even serve in the military that's

gotta mean something to the nation were mostly married now that wasn't the case when i came into service in nineteen seventy four as i just a few months ago we now are serving in the longest conflict in our nation's history we've asked a significant contribution probably the most significant contribution over time of our reserve component than we have in our history add all those things together and add to it that most of us now have served repetitive tours in combat that is to say you're in and you're out for the active component a year and in three years or so out for the reserve component there's also some things you're now about conflict today that are different for one thing it's asymmetric it there is this constant and there's always been some asymmetry in warfare but it's far more

prevalent today that our adversaries will seek and find ways to offset our advantages and levered so there's asymmetric you have to constantly be adapting to what's going on around you so the thing is this persistent there's no let's go to the rear and take a break when you're in it you're in it and it's part of her life it's part of your daily life it's a moment to moment think about a young man or woman on patrol in parts of afghanistan today worthy i add pressure plate underground buried mine is a prevalent form of warfare an incredible courage on the one hand but the incredible anxiety on the other of not knowing whether your next step could potentially be your last it's persistent it's non linear it's everywhere there is no place to go to find sanctuary it's decentralized and one and you know that is a young captain might have more responsibility more authority more capability at his disposal then a colonel that

in previous conflicts or a lieutenant colonel battalion commander will have more capability authority and responsibility than i had as a division commander in baghdad in two thousand and three and here's an important we take their families to war with us of course i don't mean that literally but i mean it absolutely figuratively and i mean it emotionally it's absolutely not uncommon or to avoid the double negative it is absolutely common that a young man or woman will be skype ing or texting or emailing or face timing and say hey look i gotta go now i gotta go out on patrol i'll call your into back happens every day all the time everywhere and that puts a different kind of of an emotional pressure on both sides no that's just the reality of the conflict in which we

find ourselves but when you added altogether i think it's important for you know oh we are question is who are you and all that so as i require of those who served many of whom are sitting in this audience today well church but that's not a new requirement really is i don't say about one particular airline i'm actually air national guard master sergeant roger sparks alaska air gardening is apparent jumper where a jumper are these fellows and douse to lower themselves out of usually blackhawk helicopters onto cable and a wire rope to rescue someone coast guard doesn't say this guy was happening to do in afghanistan on the side of it and impressed with the tenth mountain division and on a particular day on a particularly in a particularly difficult piece of terrain people twelve soldiers up the side of a cliff fundamentally under fire four of them died in his arms he recovered all twelve for the indictments are an and

each time you aren't selfie was attacked by machine gun fire from the enemy in fact the wire rope on which he was suspended was struck twice and held up under the fire as much coverage there's something else there towed some kind of sense of belonging where some some sense of loyalty to comrades resilience again not necessarily a new character is that of those who serve but i would suggest you that its resilience its being tested in ways that it hasn't been in a very long time and that not so long ago when i was asked to be the head of delegation for the paralympics i was honored to represent the united states is the head of delegation to the paralympics and i met a navy lieutenant brad snyder he was blinded one year ago in afghanistan this year he won two gold medals and his silver knobbed that's resilience if you're looking in the dictionary for resilience but there and it not only applies not only to our men and women who serve but to the family search of work that's who we

are really resolve this is a peacetime example but it's worth noting i have a young sergeant first class work and my outer office by the name of samantha johnson samantha jenkins about five foot two as mean as a snake strong as a mouse ears with samantha stone should apply direct as a driver for an eel became explosive ordinance demolition said is to say a route where steam shoots a driver she came back and almost immediately in her particular specialty they needed somebody in afghanistan because the guy who was doing the job had gotten i'd come down cancer so she applied almost immediately back to back she is a drill sergeant was a drill sergeant she is working on her second master's and she has a part time job as a security guard so she can pay off or mortgage i'd say i collect resolve that young lady knows what she wants and then adaptable this one might be the one where i would suggest is that today's formal conflict

requires a special emphasis on on a particular attribute and then attributes adaptability we've got a beat faster our feet we've gotta be inquisitive know einstein once said i probably being will falsely humble but he said you know i'm not really the smartest guy but i'm passionately inquisitive and i think that's in quality that we need to encourage matches than men women in uniform byway but really in our nation to be passionately inquisitive to keep up in our case work with what changes on the battlefield but in the case of the population general what takes place in every day and everyday technology changes in everyday relationship issues fashion a curiosity so what we've done over the past ten years i would describe to israel overcome physical fear physical fear is always part of the battlefield we've overcome physical fear by developing new rules that you know that when that big tsunami hit in thailand about six or seven years ago now you've probably read the story

that the animal's ran when the animals sense that the sea was receiving the animals had it in london up in up the higher elevations the people there on vacation say well isn't as cool as grounds to what's at the bottom of this and what happened back then came the tsunami in and killed forty nine we've got to have new instincts for the world in which we find ourselves and we've got to maintain importantly that sense of belonging and that sense of purpose that has defined us for our history as military but also to find a strad or histories americans so that's kind of maybe the obvious on stage a little bit of the less obvious many times even the toughest of veterans that are coming home will tell you that in some ways coming home is tougher than being in the comments on what would happen well remember i mention

repetitive tours it's the emotional fear of constantly having to reintegrate with your family as they grow while you're not there that's a reality secondly there is in combat a very singular focus you know exactly what you have to do your purpose is to find your mission is clear the enemy will always confuse you at times they'll be fine and friction but you have a sense of clarity that's uncanny income and then you returned and here's the words of one particular veteran to the million tiny anxieties of life outside the combat zone he described it this particular writer as going from war at mit where war is at max volume and in the foreground and coming back to where war is at much lower volume and in the background next value mark next volume and in the foreground

low volume and in the background and it's difficult for our veterans to reconcile that and finally and importantly they're coming back into the uncertainty of a difficult economic situation a difficult economic environment and the uncertainty and going for well i'm only tell me that to support my thesis here which is where we're at that point now after ten years of prolonged conflict and war appears to be continued challenges of that nature going to the future because of my security paradox the question is then what is that image what what images in your mind of the veteran and his are sometimes something you should be going to help shape of the veterans of the past decade are you or at least that's what they want to be each in their own way has served her role plea each in their own

way has served her ugly but they're our heros many have experienced real horrors of war but our victims all have served america and want to continue to serve her as they transition into your civilian communities on that basis alone on the expectation that it's in our shared interest year when i enter out of uniform that weil well this generation of veterans to contribute to bring those strengths that they bring to bring the passion and curiosity that notwithstanding the pressures that they felt to the extent that we should agree that we all want a stronger america and we are fine a way to make sure that these veterans are part of it and we ought to work together with them not for them with them ultimately who are you as a question that must be answered by these veterans and the nation that sent them to war

upend with a favorite quotation of my bed times hard times this is what people keep saying but let us live well and the time shall be god we are the times such as we are such are the times st augustus fourth century regular much that was general martin dempsey chairman of the joint chiefs of staff delivering the one hundred sixty first landon lecture on public issues a kansas state university and i told her first two thousand while you're listening to keep your presents on kansas public radio the general now takes questions from the audience at mccain auditorium the military is going to have to take cuts

in your opinion what would be yet areas that can take us and what areas that are most important for funding what it away really said was with a gentlemen to say was was that i think the defense department as well as the rest of the year of the entire government enterprise will have to find ways to help us address our common economic challenges and that i expect there for that other smaller budget rather than their when i you know the the crowd question assumes that the reductions will be taken on the back of the force structure or enshrined finance not nicer already gotten enshrine their reductions plan i don't know that we know enough about whether she pushed rationed we'll be the trigger not to know whether we have to look at other four structure reductions that that remains the same that said the real question is what needs to change based on the lessons of the last ten years of war

and i would venture to say that among the changes are that i mentioned the centralization conflict is somewhat be centralized network so i'm not sure that i can and just started thinking about conflict as large organizations that would desegregate as necessary i'm suggesting that potentially week we will need to begin to think about building small organizations that can aggregate as necessary and al bring us to some conclusions about changes to for shrek sir what's your advice jeremy allen because if i leave here unless you're not very happy about migration my advice is to

you know you weren't what are you in the service are you coming into this or were you were four you know syrians in the great well look i mean i think you've made a decision i mean i could i could answer a question with a question about why you chose to do what you're about to do but i think that i know most of the answers because you're looking for that sense of purse purpose that sense of belonging that that the military provides young men or women it i would suggest to that look at what iran can find yourself you'd even start out as a second lieutenant be the best second thing you can be room or you know blowing where you planted i'll take care washington dc you take care of fort riley kansas good afternoon sir i am a monarchy

hari two major irritant little size and finance it would like first of all to think you really have a cycle of over serving in the gulf or second of all there's many things going on india old world we have afghanistan and you have the arab spring as such are two questions comes out of their situations are happening right now in afghanistan we had that many soldiers getting shot by their afghan colleagues on the question comes war why what encourages the afghanis to shoot their colleagues was the cause of that though when a teacher opinion from there and i would be us change the relationship the second question with a us change its relationship somehow with libya and egypt and that's an easy out because of the protest that's been happening around that the embassies and the murder of a us ambassador in libya thinking that i have to stay here for

through three days to do justice to those questions but but i will get you up i were i reacted both very briefly for saw at one that was my great honor to serve and then in the nineteen ninety one as it is today secondly i met we call insider attacks the one thing we've learned over the past ten years i think is that we reinforce you know for every really complex problem there's a simple solution is almost always wrong so there's this is a really complex issue one that demands that we understand it and that as we understand it we do that cleverly with their afghan partners it's it is a it is as i said before a very serious threat and one that we are seized with addressing what were were likely not eliminated entirely but i think we're going to heck of a lot better at getting it under control especially if we get the cooperation of our afghan partners and that just last week with the new minister of defense

afghanistan the new measurements are a couple of the core commanders and i'm i left they're convinced that they are as concerned about this is we are but we got a lot of work to do and it's a it is a tactic being employed by the calm on in those are ideologically opposed to the kind of afghanistan we see in the best interests both of them an awesome future the irish premise but in the same instance that meaning it's that come complex geopolitical issue with with ideological and religious undertones it is it as units dozens of stakeholders who are seeking to influence the outcome us will we abandon it just because isis or just because well we abandon it because of some of the recent demonstrations riots and even the loss of our of our ambassador ambassador there chris stevens would be the first one to say the first one to say under no circumstances should we abandon that part of the world

simply because of the acts of a few terrorists fundamentally and so i don't think we will but we've got you know this is a very complex time and that we want to make sure that we employ all the instruments of our government and that we partner with those who have common interests in the region to try to find a way to have to sell those issues reporter to jail they typically what in your view is the strategic value of the bases outside the united states we have a season japan germany south korea in light of the rapid response to the craziest know take a baton rouge and arrange edward saylor and are those bases outside the us really worth the cost and political struggle yeah i am actually wondering who believes very strongly in maintaining a forward presence for a couple reasons that some of which are obviously access issues is clear when but also what it does for us i

think it meaning the development of our leaders i think there is a significant advantage to allowing our leaders to grow up inside of different cultures different languages different customs and traditions so we get to know each other before we potentially have to go fight with each other because it's on target what i learned over the over the injustice first year as chairman is that at the end of the day you know process it's important to understand process is vital to build relationships and i think that our presence that allows us to build a relationship of trust that just our deployments wouldn't allow i mean my wife and i lived in germany for twelve years we lived together and saudi arabia for two years and interact with rape and if you add up my time in afghanistan is probably the one plus and so i obviously you're talking to someone who believes we really we really have to be engaged in the

world to help influence if not do it for almost six thousand six thousand miles away so i mentioned earlier referred to see here about predators than i was wondering what the air force for the military general said that what you see the voters were mission say five ten years for all the service well i you know it as you know the new defense strategy talked about rebalancing to the pacific we've been very careful not to describe that as a light switch and when they are they're the next day you're not we never left really we just shifted our balance to the mideast because that's where the secure the greatest security issues of the last ten years have have that happen to reside i think it's a fair advantage again as you watch demographic trends economic trends in military trends you will see them trending toward the pacific and we want to be in a wayne ellington to wayne gretzky and i'm all over the map today with my epileptic the quotations are from st dozens of wayne gretzky that well as wayne

gretzky about your size probably the best soccer player in history we could debate that's close but somebody said too much of a you know a really a physically imposing guy had you how come you were such a great hockey player i said i speak to where the puck is gonna be enough to where it's been better return general on honestly you talked a lot about re integrating soldiers coming back from deployment how do you think higher education in colleges universities case they play a role in that what steps you think colleges have oh wow so is the medical that her degree in and have greater access to the job market and how how it helps them integrate and what steps you think need to be taken far behind the higher education well i think that first i think the partnership with higher education is as is terrific i mean i i couldn't be more pleased with every place i go higher education's is seeking to it to increase the degree to which we partner richard we got a bill and they would both have some work to do and we got to do a

better job of preparing our veterans to to move into that environment what i said about you know a veteran coming ever act afghanistan goes from you know life at mach for to something far slower and and somewhat more muted it and i think that when i look at how we prepare veterans to move into and services civilian society and its education and protectors and work or condone what we just did with the veterans administration revise our transition programs and i think they'll be up they'll be better and will continue to adapt them is necessary at preparing veterans to enter academia and part of the accademia i think you have to understand that they're not high school kids coming out of senior year and my aunt matriculating into a normal academic experience that for so that come with becomes an incredible stress that comes with some vulnerabilities because of all the

things i just mentioned and there are some organizations veteran support organizations that are canon growing up around the country that let's call it meant for these young men women that come into higher education cuts are because our dropout rates too high right now and so i think when it out will help them to do something as yourselves will serve my name is tracy robinson i'm the widow of sergeant jesse are robinson and i'm also seen a case dating middle major in mathematics and secondary education an my concern is about that they're many of our service members and veterans who return home and suffer ptsd and when this is left untreated it often results in his suicide as is the case with my husband and i was wondering we can then nation our communities and the military do to better treat and help our soldiers and veterans and help take care of their families

as the soldiers are dealing with the us dramatic stress anxiety and reintegration of these virtual arm deeply sorry for wasserman thank you for family for stepping forward to tell us your story about will be around the yemen effort in ptsd is is one of those issues where you know we have to be on a campaign of learning so if we would have this conversation ten years ago we were trying to increase the we still are trying to increase the protection at the point of impact you know were putting mechanical devices on helmets that that sense that new pressure from the blast effect as part were also partnering with by where the national football league and other sports experts to try to understand how to reduce the impact of anderson medicine and chemistry a good friend of mine the trolley were supposed to meet for dinner tomorrow is on a campaign running up the prohibition of them by

name he was the vice chairman of vice chief of staff of the army and probably our most arm are most active passionate advocate for the study of ptsd and how to map it how to understand that because it's it's it is how to reduce the stigma of the things that i'm sure you can speak to me about far more eloquently than i can speak to you in the time available what i would say is we are absolutely seized with with ptsd moderate traumatic brain injury and suicide as well as some other things and any of acts of prolonged repeated conflict and so senator judd gregg is not uniquely military challenges you well know but i promise you we're not we're not completion about the ocean where she's work and i really do appreciate your giving the upper to new york to assure you thank you the pain grier go along

with all of what she said that men in service to the servicemen and women at a return from deployment to civilian population long woody think we as cited help them cope better and virginia to wasilla population again that's a great question as it's the conversation i'm hoping to start i think the conversation has started they do on to understand why mobile that because you know we're up a rack is is no longer our fight iraqi people iraqi security forces have taken that on for themselves afghanistan will soon do the same and we'll have more veterans back in this country transitioning out the budget reductions we talk about will likely know not likely it will create more veterans and so i had that conversation now

before this all begins to happen in big numbers and i don't know the answer i have an effect that studied and read another breed ferocious reader i'm trying to read everything that veterans are saying i can't get it all there's even some novelists they're not earning literary authors are taking this up is a book i just recall billy lynn's long halftime walk it's kind of an odd at whether this is not a promotion for the book but it's actually it's kind of a catch if he ran a book catch twenty two in vietnam this is gonna catch twenty two for the past ten years it's pretty interesting i don't agree with all that well one i understand that point you know where the conversation about this has got or those places where we all say thanks to them but how much you know how often do we take the time to estonia share their experiences or how how often are you willing to share your experiences and we have to have a conversation because look at this isn't about forming an image of the veteran for

us this is about forming an image of the veterans for america because every generation does that and it's now time for us to do that i really want the image to be positive and so because it should be about a sonnet your help i can answer that question for a perennial your health insurance you think you are mike digs up the line of conversation from the last question and i don't know if there's a ready answer for it but i'm wondering when you try to picture what military leaders could do to help corporate an industrial partners transition from a wartime economy to an economy of peace where some of the things you think can be done well it senses the twenty first century one of the premises i have is that our ability to connect should

be a heck of a lot more assets should be a lot more possible for us to make the kind of connections you're talking about in a century that was an option that that's again and sew leveraging i think technology to share some common appreciation and understanding of where these young men women are what they have tried to transition that you do that the personnel system of our military bases that might challenge which is kind of the industrial age you know and i'm they have the ability the young man or woman said can i have a hand in crafting their career differently than we have had in the past is possible today given technology show chatted that bias is hard this is hard at work but i'm on the other side i think there's there are some opportunities i think public private partnerships tend to work better than to expect me where the government to do everything top down the bank them the most successful programs

for helping veterans for for even for things like our acquisition strategies are generally public private partnerships and an almost always grow from the bottom up i think i just have this sense that if i if i challenge you and challenge a marker to help me figure this out i think the tools are there have figured out by can do by myself when was it that you went to a talk and the theme was from the who i am and you had quotes from st augustine and wayne gretzky and i think we have heard of very insightful view into the actions our military and you haven't answered so many wonderful questions i think the audience for those would you all join me in thinking general dempsey's that was general martin dempsey chairman of the joint chiefs of

staff delivering the one hundred sixty first landon lecture on public issues a kansas state university on october first two thousand twelve thanks to the office of mediated education at kansas state university for audio of this event i'm kate mcintyre for the rest of this hour kansas public radio celebrates memorial day with talking history a radio documentary from pr x the public radio exchange it's part of a seven part series focusing on various american holidays and is hosted by bryan lebow we welcome back to talking history for the third in our yearlong series on american holidays matthew dennis professor of history at the university of oregon and the author of red white and blue leather days an american calendar published by cornell university press in january matthew night talk about martin luther king day and in february we tackled president's day this week we look at memorial day welcome back matt that's going to be here and let's begin again as we did

last month for our listeners who may have missed or two earlier conversations by having you remind us why you think super colonies are so important well a day like memorial day we now think is a day off the beginning of summer and that nothing wrong with leisure that's been an object of a great deal of political worker throughout the american history and that's worthwhile but i'm interested in the ways that holiday set aside time not just a leisure but for reflection historical reflection as well as cultural and political work they sometimes can stimulate us to think about american identity in history and they work as a key moments when popular historical consciousness can be raised and shaped there times when americans can reinforce some of the values that they believe that made them great their opportunities for pointing out when americans failed to realize some of those values and so they can be a time also of critique and reform of american life ok you read the origins of memorial day are obscure book begin with vernacular acts of mourning

one of those vernacular x morning the civil war i think most historians would agree was the most devastating moment in american history we see the deaf says of over six hundred thousand americans tearing the nation apart how would americans deal with that well who it began it was just try to make sense of come to grips with and agree for their losses and so memorial day started in these localized efforts often by women to decorate the graves of their fallen soldiers with the flowers that are coming into bloom in the spring so that's really how it began a simple act of moralize decorating graves we describe these as romanticized reminiscences of these rights in the later nineteenth century talk about that a bit well what happens is that these are localized commemorations not celebrations and at least initially they're very divided the north as well as the south does this and each side is really embracing its own cause

and continues to blame the other side so these are divisive events they're very localized the politically charged but what happens is that certainly by the end of reconstruction in at seventy seven by that moment we see real efforts to reconcile the two sections and so memorial day it takes on a kind of changed to mention an increasingly we see join celebrations and a focus on the warrior not the war on the heroism of those on both sides and increasingly we see an emerging amnesia about what caused the war in the first place and a willful forgetting of the plight of african americans of their service in the war over two hundred thousand african american served in the war and their ongoing quest to really achieve equality in the united states with this kind of right of reunion where the more difficult and immediate

memories and realities are obscured their seems to emerge a kind of unconscious and sometimes conscious packed north and south china move on and to kind of achieve closure at the expense of history and the realities facing african americans and so it has a sky romanticized quality that many prefer to the real difficulties that united states facing we continue to face into the twentieth century ok so this room at this is a shame for lack of a better word brings about an amnesia that has the positive effect of unifying the nation providing some consensus but at the same time as you're suggesting it excludes african americans and perhaps some of the very reasons why the war was fought in the first place counselor ok and our past conversations you talk about how holidays which are intended to remind us of past events are people actually transform those events are people and how we view them you're hinting at is that really what

happened here well yeah i think that all holidays gone to the extent that they're successful have the kind of top down and bottom up to mention to them and there's a kind of welling up of meaning and memorial day and eventually we see the celebration of it or the commemoration self transformed and so increasingly americans transformed it into a more generic day of remembering those who have died important ancestors and your family members in particular and not just those who fell in the war we also see the emergence of a kind of more generic patriotism again most contact us in a way that cultivation of a love for american no matter what and in some ways we then see that less meaningful patriotism and the gross growth of a mass culture encourage americans to in some ways to transform memorial day into a recreational event

so for example as early as eighteen at eight grover cleveland was criticized for going fishing on memorial day instead of celebrating in a more solemn fashion and increasingly we see them it as a site for picnics or horse races eventually an auto race you know that began in indianapolis in nineteen eleven indianapolis five hundred day so there is that shift and in a kind of evasion of the original meaning of the day ok i found it very interesting and i'm taking effect here earlier comment on african americans that not all african americans walked away from this and just threw their hands up some unfair active protests the changing meanings of the holiday and frederick douglass was one that you quoted to an eighteen seventy eight in a memorial they address to the grand army of the republic said we must not be asked to say that the south was right in the rebellion or to save the north was wrong that's a very interesting quote tell us about douglas and was he a lone voice or was there some support

for his position well douglas was largely cologne voice among the most prominent spokesman for african american people and the kinds of things he was saying persistently seemed to fall and heard so we see these kinds of ants douglas appearing constantly at memorial day events saying exactly the sort of things that you quoted and he really was trying to push for this more reflective and informed understanding of what it was that was being celebrated and then sure you can understand and empathize with than even celebrate her was in that individual's but after all he would say the north was fighting to protect the union while the south was fighting for something altogether different to dissolution of american nation and that this was important and to forget it was not just a problem that was historical one that wasn't

an academic issue but it was one that was actually vital to the meaning of the united states and the plight of african american people because as we now late in the century we see the consolidation love jim crow laws that would disenfranchise and does enable and discriminate against african americans so fundamentally that would require a new civil rights movement or merging in the middle of the twentieth century to finally restored the vote and full civil rights to black people in america and another typical ok let's quickly clear up a few things about recommended this conversation first heard the term decoration day come from while decoration day comes from that early vernacular practice of decorating the graves of fallen soldiers with flowers in fact we see the dates of memorial day very often by when flowers come into bloom in different parts of the country and so when they're at their height was one decoration day

would occur and especially women and children would take those flowers and strewn them about the graves of those who followed after world war one of the united states' inaugurated what could be seen as a new memorial day armistice day which was later veterans day why did we do that and how to affect our celebration of memorial day well you know it's kind of ironic that americans had forgotten what memorial day was not necessarily specific to the savoy warren buffett general recognition of the cost of war so by the time that we're were one was fought and completed the spanish american war and also occurred and veterans of the first world war believe that that particular sacrifice should be remembered and so our new holiday emerged initially the armistice day which transformed ultimately into veterans day was a commemoration of the end of the war ten dollars and so it was very much one designated towards peace

and they quickly evolved actually go into a commemoration an appreciation of veterans in particular so you know the two kind of existed not side by side but were both in the counter in different seasons and co existed and which continue to exist in american life and it seems to me at and on the part of the world where i grew up the memorial they became increasingly associated with going to the graves of all of our loved ones and not just to military heroes that had died and more yeah i think a memorial day has become to the extent that we still keep it in its original spirit a condom or general day of mourning for those who've died family especially the armistice day became ultimately veterans day and it's a time where we celebrate veterans both those who died and those still living let's wrap up by asking just one last question here described it in the past to describe their king day as a work in progress president's day as an heroic is it gets an entire memorial movement

while what you are closer with her pronouncement on memorial day well memorial day again like many other holidays it has the potential to be a time of real historical reflection but i think most americans today have more or less forgotten even the things that the original memorial day as a day of forgetting about the cost of the war was designed to remember i mean it's a really confusing statement but the irony is that memorial day is about memory yet we hardly ever actually remember the things that were originally supposed to remember i think that's a good point and thanks again for joining us now it's good to be with you brian campbell see again in july for independence day cnn even listening to matthew dennis professor of history at the university of oregon and the author of red white and blue leather days an american calendar published by cornell university press this is talking history that was brian lobo with talking history which came to us from pr x the public radio exchange i'm kay

mcintyre kbr presents is a production of kansas public radio at the university of kansas