Utah World War II Stories; Interview with World War II Veteran 195

What's interesting about this you know you can't you didn't you know that's that was a secondary rule out there. Let's start right there. Row row here. You know they would come at us. And so we refute directly at them. See that's our secondary role was to shoot at the vehicles and individuals. Once all those infantry men as they came at us we were able to get them all because they were in line and the reason they were in line was. Why they kept coming. Was it the Germans sent the infantry out ahead of their tanks. No they wouldn't. Hitler would not send out a tank. They didn't have soldiers in front of it to protect the tank. And so these people these infantrymen were preparing to protect the tanks so the tanks keep down. I didn't see attacking. I

thought them for a week and I never saw a single tank because all we did we shoot infantrymen. And. Yeah it's no longer on the tank destroyers they had a 50 caliber machine gun but they weren't close enough for us to use them. We were used to tank tank on them. And we killed or wounded everybody that came and we didn't I didn't see a single German in that town any soldiers. We kept them out of that town. And for three days we were there by ourselves. And then the third day some infantry came up and they used they we had dug in behind us. They thought we were going to get wiped out. Sent to protect us. We were protecting me. So that was a 4th Infantry Division that came in behind us.

Yes I don't have any idea how many it had to be hundreds and hundreds. In fact the German infantry when they are infantry when they finally came up to help us they they were able to go up there and they said they had never seen too many did. They went into one building where there were many did in 45 still alive and more than that they were dead in this one building. Where we had been. I had three officers or four officers and five off you can become a missile. And in that battle I lost everyone. Anyone that survived that week.

You have to understand that the battle of the Bulge was your true part. It was the first week. That's when the Germans made all of their progress. They made all that that's when they surrounded the hundred first Airborne Division. That's when they would end all the way all the way they went. Yeah and I've got maps show you that you can see how far they went and what they did. But it was in that first week then in the second week in the third or fourth week when we pushed them back into Germany and the war ended on what most people say was the 12th of January. Not hard merely You don't know when to badly. It's you know when they start but you don't know when the end. But I do know that on the 12th of January the Russians started their last offensive. And Hitler and he had already lost the

war. And so he took what he could of his men and went to meet the Russians first. Well at the end of that first week we started getting help. Three days we didn't see anybody. But then after that we started getting a little help. I didn't see any officers at all there were some infantry men that were up there and they're the ones that went up and came back and reported how many dead they saw you know we kill so many people and it's many people that they spent their whole evening all night picking them up. We didn't have anything to do at night. My goodness they they didn't they didn't fight us at night they just fired during the day at night times of terror.

Usually a terrible time to be fighting. But they were picking up their dead. You were in that time you spend all night just picking up their dead and their wounded. Was the whole you know it was the worst weather according to the reports survivor had it was the worst weather that any of those natives that if you see it was cold. We were blessed to be in the in their houses. I didn't have a single person that I know of I'm sure I didn't get when there's no reason why I should have gotten anybody with frozen feet but the jury or the others during that battle it was so cold and such a miserable time that 45000 of our people got frozen feet. So many got frozen feet that they passed a law saying that the next guy to get frozen if he's going to get court martialed. They

get fresh and feet then to continue the fight. And 45000 got frozen feet so it's not a little. I didn't during that that week we didn't see any snow and we didn't see any airplanes. He had fifteen hundred airplanes there that he was going to use but he didn't use any of them on us. I read where he did use an airplane somewhere but I didn't see any. Right. Well well well believe me last one the wall will Billy. And he was a he was only 10 and he had to put it through. And I just got through talking to him when he got a shell landed and killed him. Then then my executive officer and I were talking during another about a

week later it was on 21st of December that I was talking to my JAG officer and a shell and a mortar shell landed in the tank where he was. And so he got the last word in this life were to meet. And you were just talking about the visit you know he didn't do that. I don't know that we were talking about anything in particular in a while we were talking they started to show us. And it was one of these you know commanded and it didn't he didn't die. He died on Christmas Day but he was unconscious from the day that. He was hit on the 17th you know on the 21st on the first night of the 25th. Oh yes at the end of that first

week we had done we had stopped the Germans not a single we got into Luxembourg. We were in my outfit and I didn't know it at the time I was given the instruction to report to the Hundred first airborne and bashed on that as my instructions so I went up to bash them. But I thought the Colonel and those people are going to go. But they didn't tell him he and the rest of the soldiers were still another him they went to a rest area. And I didn't know that until recently that I was the only one that that group my out that went up to bash. And I reported. I thought I was reporting to General Taylor. My orders were reported to General Taylor but General Taylor was in the United States at the time and his assistant was this my colleague who

told him that when he was when they told him to surrender. And so he's the one that I reported to you got bashed on. Well Bastow it was cold. See that that was on I got out there after Christmas. We left we left the Luxemburg Christmas night and we went up to Bastille and taken several days to get there with our tanks. And when we got there they sent us up to a little town nearby and we were under their direction and we stayed under their direction. They're under their direction when I got wounded. I got wounded on the last day of the battle on the 12th. And the reason every. Every report that I've read say that that was the last day of the battle because the Russians had started a big

offensive for them and hit took what many could from from the western front to fight with the Russians on the eastern front. Still yeah there was. There was still heavy fighting. There'd been we only had about a four or five hundred yards into the town the rest of it was still in the control of the Germans. You were put in the line there. So we had to we the rest of my five you know just three weeks there at best in that area. Yeah we saw a few tanks up there. Yeah we fired we go some tanks have been bashed in the Bastogne area. But we didn't get the tanks down in the wall bit like area because all we got was infantrymen.

When I was wounded. I had to share the land. Murder she had landed both me piece went into my left shoulder and I was at peace it broke the shoulder. They called it a broken shoulder you didn't break it just a little hole. Left little hole in my shoulder about the size of a 20 and I think it wouldn't have gone through been as big advantages I got there anyway. I got wounded with that shell. And that was the last day of the bulk of the battle. Last time I saw any war they took me to. Paris for I was in the hospital in Paris and then I was there a few days and they flew me from parish to England and it was there in England and I met my

brother he was with the eight therefore he was with the eight they're foreigners out of a miracle. I went into the Red Cross when I got into the hospital. I reported in the hospital. He settled in there and I could walk around. Really I resented his shoulders and I had it in a sling. Anyway I'm going into the communal operator and I say is there any way I can get in touch with my brother and she says you're in the car and I said yes and she says it was only 500000 of them here and we don't have any any communication with them. Well anyway it was an interesting thing because looking up calling anybody without looking at any instructions if you made a telephone call.

And the fellow that answered the phone knew my brother and my brother was in that room it was a room up on the border of Scotland where this whole room had been shut down. We knew that he was on a bombing mission and he was shot he was shot over Germany but his plane didn't crash until they got back across the water. And when that correct got to caress the water when they all had to jump out. And they jumped out and they soon enough the Scotsman and run down the borders and through this restaurant. And that's where my brother and so we spent three weeks together. I was in the hospital in the south of England and easing the rest of the North of England. And we got together and had a good time. If you're that was interesting you don't remember much about how you got United States. Lol where yeah oh yeah I don't want to forget this.

When when I got back with them and I looked at the war was about over. I got out of the hospital that day Rose not die big nosed newspaper every day. I'll never forget the day I got out of the hospital because a 12th of April 1945 and Rose really died. When they gave me a few days off to get back to my life and I'm going up to Scotland and saw some science up in Scotland on my way back to the yacht up there I don't remember too much how I got back to that outfit. When I got back to the outfit they were on their way to Austria. But some some fellow taken my place as captain. So they promoted me to I'm a teacher. I didn't get my my I'd never have gotten a major.

Insignias I didn't go by Capt.. Nobody really believed me and I got that during my leave when I got out of the army. That came through. Me. I had an old one we got to this town to purchase. We were in that town then the war ended in the curtain and I think it was about the 12th of May. The war ended on the 9th the 8th I never could find I found it and then on the 8th of the NBA some say the 9th there anyway. It was on the 12th when a lot of railroad cars that run through the town in one of those cars started to explode. Shields started to explode in there and so the colonel and fortified me down there

with our tank destroyers. We pulled the train apart so we couldn't get that treatment part without some. We're not used you know trying to stir the pullet. And so we pulled that train apart found out that all the other cars were full of bombs that would have destroyed that town. So they give us a medal. Gave us a soldier's medal of nature is the highest medal you could get for bravery and we didn't even know we done anything. So you were there. Yeah we use a tank destroyer to pull to separate these cars. Only one car was exploding. And then I don't know what was in there there but the others had these bigger bombs that would have ruined the town. But anyway two or three days later we take a group and we went into the election not intellectually but a lot to a concentration camp. And we were the first ones

I was the first officer in that concentration camp. I saw people die and a hundred people a day dying in their starvation. Yeah and it was the most the most miserable experience of my ward. This is after the wars are over. We went into this little town. We asked the people where the where the concentration camp was I don't know how we found out there was one but we asked these people and they all nobody knew they didn't know. But you could smell it for miles. And we got to it and it was a most sickening experience of my life. We got into that concentration camp. Hundred people a day were dying in there from starvation and those Germans were using those rooms to search very many doctors. And I went into one room and they had all of the doctors there.

I always felt bad I didn't take it going beyond what was assumed. I was so sick of the whole thing that I didn't take a thing I didn't even take a picture. I had my camera but it was such a mean thing that I didn't take a single picture. I got a picture of somebody else took today. You can see. I just couldn't take a picture of those people in such a terrible terrible thing. I don't want to talk about it don't cry that you were married when you got a good day. When a grade you're different from the field at every school I came into Salt Lake City and on and on to leave going. Charger. He and my my girlfriend Mandy said there's time I've been trying to talk her into getting married for years but I've been on a mission of the

good of the RPF and I had been. She'd been going to school up at Utah State. Then she finally decided it was it was time. So I got married the last day I was here and was in Salt Lake and I felt the morning after I got married I flew to Georgia and she went alone to Packer closest you know so you know that that was the saddest each child ever had. So how did you remember much. Well after we thought we were going to Japan and they were supposed to go to Japan you know it's kind of nice being having all those big tent cities. They don't just take them anywhere. Well anyway. When we were going to go to Japan before or before we got to Japan or before we left Austria. Why the war

ended so that when the war ended while I was gone and we didn't go into. And these are interests. Recently when I was one of the first to go home because every time they gave me five points for the shot of me five minutes old the rattle they gave me five points for getting a bronze star. And that put me up one of them. And then they give you so many points for each year in the service. So I was I was of when highest number of points. None of them really really counted either. They. But anyway it was nice. You know what. You know I went when I got home I got back in law school. I had two more years to go. And I can't read I can't remember the day I got home.

But we had a celebration. I got home and got back into school. I wear my uniform. They took me they took a picture of various law class and there were two or three of his very uniform men are why the world is going to want a uniform but I guess while they are still in the service I didn't wear civilian clothes until I got out of the service. Question. Tell us about your service. Oh and I had the best man in that army. I tell you advance. We we were on maneuver which we're on maneuvers to do in Arizona. And after those three months of maneuvers they gave the battalion a three day pass and we all went to Phoenix a whole bunch of the pope today went to Phoenix. Well

after those three days the Colonel called me. He's just what are you a chaplain. Maybe about a chapter you know about it happened that he had four stacks of military police report on his desk. Each report each stack was a company of rowdiness and drunkenness and everything. He didn't have a single one of my company there. That's why he said what are you a chaplain. But anyway the reason I didn't have any troubles I took the best and that I had nonsmokers on three continents and put them in charge of my outfit and the whole outfit. So there wasn't a better army. There wasn't a better group of men in the hall. My driver made his name in Macon liquor at Kentucky. If you didn't get a drunk. Well he said.

So how were you. Oh I thought they were they were very good. They were good and I didn't have anybody go to the hospital. You know a lot of people have problems after they they go to these psychiatric hospitals and they go just like my brother they had given up they're given him so there'd been that risk came from the Air Corps because a lot of people really get sick. I didn't have any problem I don't think I had a single man that went to a hospital for mental problems. I remember one guy grabbing his machine going down on the road. But he he just went off for a short short time and I don't remember him see him to the hospital or anything. You know all of a they wanted to please me. They wanted to please me and I wanted to please you. It was kind of a family. Is John befitting a fan. I had been on a

mission to get only about everybody a live baby and I didn't I didn't court martial a single man in my outfit. You know I'm going to get into the air and the only one The old colonel wonder why none of my men got ever court martial and all I did was an I'd like to treat my men the way I'd like to be treated. She could complain about there. So is there anything we've left out. You want to talk. You know I think. I think you got more information. Just one more question. World War 2 How do you think about how do you explain that what's what's. When you think of that is there any thoughts here where you know it's it's hard it's hard to understand how you can kill a person.

I'm so grateful that I did have to tell that they're going to go I get I did. Quite a rarity. So you had GREAT. You're British. That's wonderful. We sure appreciate it. Thank you very much. You do. OK. Thank you so much. OK. This is just a. Although I don't know what they did with them because the

infantry of the winter brought them down. The infantry the infantry brought him down from the house and they took him away I mean I really worried when those when that war was going on. I was worried about somebody spitting up a white flag because if they'd put up a white flag I couldn't shoot them and if they came down found out that we were going to hundred twenty five million I think I'd be a captive instead of him. But anyway that was a step is a scary situation to have those people and I was so grateful that I didn't have to take a prisoner of war and I was so grateful I didn't if you shoot anybody. All right we shot a lot of people but they were a long ways away and we couldn't hear anything we couldn't hear. We didn't hear the sound. There's like the record when they dropped bombs they didn't see what happened to them and we really couldn't see much what happened to them they were away. But I was grateful not to

be carrying these people and I was grateful I didn't have to kill anybody. You going to do something. It's like killing somebody a friend of mine was told You go out and shoot that man in your hole. Well we didn't we. I had have we didn't have the Puritans. We we killed these people so far away that we didn't even know. We didn't even know they were dead. We knew they were dead from the explosion but we didn't ever get near. We never shot a person there and we didn't never wound a person that we had assumed was pretty or

anything. But they must have done it. And they everybody didn't buy that we shot out. And that was a problem. We had all those soldiers come in and I don't know how many I asked one of my mirror and I said How many men to kill. All the shit or at least 700. And I don't know whether you should kill 700 can wonder why he picked that we should want least 700 you're not going to beat him. Because that was your biggest kept coming we kept shooting and it was far enough away that it wasn't like shooting somebody near you. It had been more like Bjork or dropping something on the house when he drive by but it was never sad. Those are sad beasts through to have to shoot people.