Woman; Congresswoman Bella Abzug

Good evening and welcome to Woman My guest tonight is Congresswoman since 1971. Bella has fought for the rights of underrepresented Americans with a style that prompted one conservative colleagues to characterize her as the only male in the house. She describes herself as a radical. Hello welcome to the show. My view Don't Change is hard to come by. Bill if you had to give a course for women to help them get into politics what would be some of the things that you think would be required. Well I think that most women have to feel that they have an interest in really creating some change. I mean it's a very serious business being in the political arena. And we have had so much bad in the political arena out of a structure that's been dominated by a very elitist grouping of males that we want women to come in who really stand for social

change. We want women to come in who really are committed not only to eliminate discrimination against a person because of sex. We want women to come in who are fighting for their own equality within the framework of a different kind of society a society which fights poverty. A society which fights racism a society which fights militarism. A society that wants to put the vast resources of this great democracy its economic with sauces its great cultural and constitutional history to work for a greater economic and political and social inequality. It hasn't been that way for almost 200 years and that was of us in the National Women's Political Caucus particularly myself. Will has been one of the promoters and sponsors of women running for political office believes that before we reach our 200 birthday or as we reach it that it's time we completed

the American Revolution and then Porton the interval plot of that is to recognize a very simple fact that the women who come into politics have to do it differently. I have to really have a commitment not to a machine not to a special interest not even to a career although it's OK to like your career but to the representation of the diverse people that we've got men and women to fight for yourself. Yes as a woman but the fight for all your people so far south of the path to conduct that intensive battle for social change for yourself and for the society itself. Or more fair distribution of power and a more fair distribution. The economic resources there once said that Congress read the famous what would you mean by that. Well if you look at the Congress it doesn't look like the country. We just have to walk in to the House of Representatives it's 435 people and only 60 in a woman. Now that doesn't look like the country where more than half of us

women at the time I came in on that's changing I'm glad to say the age level was pretty much above 50. That's changing. There are also a few minorities of all kinds that should also change. If you go into the Senate at this particular moment there are no women there. It's a no woman's land. Or as I and others have said it's a static Senate and that means a stagnation. So it's time that we change that so that we can really say look our Congress looks like the people and it's more like America and it might then begin for the needs of the ordinary Americans which is the majority of us instead of for the special interests that have for so long that when I did the political structures as has been evidenced by the revelations of Watergate. In your book you speculate and I thought it was great about what the country might be

like if women had been represented properly all along. I think it's hard to believe that if women had been in the Congress of the United States that we would have conducted an illegal in MA war in Vietnam for as long as we did. I think it's unreal to believe that if women were in greater numbers in the Congress that we would not have by now an active childcare legislation for the more than 38 percent of the women who work in this country think that if you read the Pentagon Papers which document the legalities of the Vietnam War there is no name of any woman and Watergate and its role of characters or cast of characters has no women in it except as victims. I mean a secretary a wife always is a victim. The decision making in a sense has been very male and very oriented towards the humanity and the compassion of a great country like

ours should really have. I believe that what is missing in the political arena not only in this legislative body the Congress is compassion its caring is wanting and hoping and believing. For too long it's been a very static political structure both the Congress and state houses. Very often the city halls and the political parties and I guess because it's been on natural it's not natural to have just men in these places every other place we have men and women. So one of thousands take on a certain formality and I certainly did it in a certain style a certain exclusivity a certain coldness. And we're going to try to change that. Women have in their heads something different because of what we have sort of been subjected to having and I had. We are supposed to be the more gentle The more recessive and the more caring. And many of us saw most

of the sun. Also a good number of us are that way because we've been involved with the business of childbearing. You know I have two lovely daughters and I want them to have a beautiful atmosphere as I'm developing their lives as they're growing up and so I'm more concerned with the fabric of society fabric of the community and I think the fabric of the nation. And I'm a case the nation now perceives correctly that women can make a difference. Men and women both perceive that man having made such a mess of things we will be called upon and not being called upon in a certain traditional way Interestingly enough to clean up the mess. And we hope to do that. So you have to be prepared to fight for social change or people they have to clean up the mess. That's an old role we've had have to have to work very hard. Women a challenge in the political arena and most of us are where they are now. I think among the most hard working I would say that of my

acquaintances with the women both in the Congress and in the state legislatures throughout this country and in the study legislations we have some of the most talented women some of the most creative legislative and human beings. I would hope that we would continue that kind of person in office where women are concerned. I'm not talking about supporting women whom I have backward views or reactionary views I think we have enough of those in the Congress now. I'm talking about people and women who will come out and ideology and knowledge of themselves wanting to create this equality for themselves in a society that has a soul in a society that wants to provide much more for all of its people rather than for the veracious military for the Pentagon for the top of the corporate ladder and the special interests who have had the money to buy power. We don't want that. We want women to be prepared to go out and fight for campaign reform public financing so that they can come from the people we want to give a little bit of

idealism at the same time some real real ism. So the political arena. Then you don't think we should vote for women just because they're women no I never Oh absolutely not. Matter of fact I made that very clear when we first formed the national political corkers. I for one felt that the caucus had to be based upon ideas that we wanted to create. We want to women the change probably we don't want to substitute elitist or dominated white all male middle class power structure that for a woman's power structure which looks like that we want to make a difference. We want to change things we want to make a difference in this country and in the world it's about time you said that a way to change Congress to make it respond to I need just to show it for what it is. You really did that in your book. Were you very shocked when you first went to Washington and discovered. Well the book would you speak of. Of course it was written in my first year of

Congress and I was so to speak and document three of my thoughts and my actions. A diary or a diary. Since that time yes of course I was shocked but it's interesting. Right at this time the Congress is dealing with its own pardonable Padan of Mr. Boyd's which I believe to be illegal in the first place which I believe to be the best I have come about as a result of some pretty arrangements I disagree with it I think it should be challenged in the courts and I brought on a resolution of inquiry. Directed to the president asking panel more questions concerning that pardon which came before the Judiciary Committee. Now the interesting thing is when I came to the Congress I was shocked that one thing that I wasn't able to get the information from the executive branch of government. I said this is impossible by the time you get a resolution in the hopper as to what committee in hearings had in action on the floor why it's the end of a year or more. And I've got to have some information and so I conducted a lot of research very much

consistent with what I know to be the parliamentary system at least the name one which was the prime minister that came down to the Polman and could be asked questions by the members of parliament. And I found this resolution of inquiry which hadn't been used in 24 years which is a resolution of questioning facts and directed only to a president or a cabinet secretary and I've been using it from time to time. In the Congress it's a privilege resolution that could be called up to the floor for a vote in seven days. The interesting thing is that I found a lot of information available from the executive branch for the Pentagon Papers in the Chinese war agreements of cooperation the Middle East and so on and finally with the fourth thing. Well that was one of the things that I've been trying for opening up the process. It's not only enough to open it up to women to come in but open it up to the people. They have a right to know. And I was that was one meaning of what went on with the whole impeachment thing. There was a cover up and the people had a right to know.

And having been an early you know proponent of impeachment the right to know was very deeply involved in the question of the Watergate and its kind of cover up. Some of those were some of the things that I was shocked to find out that there was very little legislation affecting women being put into the hopper. I was there at the time of the Equal Rights Amendment passage and I pray that along with others in and out of Congress. But I couldn't get over the fact for example that there was no law on the books or even a bill having been introduced which would eliminate discrimination against women and credit women to be discriminated against in credit terms of credit cards getting mortgages. Business loans and bank loans and so I testified before a national commission that was inquiring on the issue of credit headed by another congresswoman. Been there for quite a while and been doing an interesting job. Lentulus Sullivan and then I looked around so I was no bill I introduced one and that was picked up by

somebody in the Senate Senator Brock and it was just passed and made a lot of this in the Congress the United States. So I only took about three years but I think that having started it and having started with zero it was something that could be a wild proposal. We do quite a bit and I do have quite a bit of legislation affecting equality and the rights of women. Give us an exam. Well there's a very important bill which is already passed the committee in the Senate the counterpart in the Senate is by Mr. Tommy which is a flexible hours bill which would start out with federal civil servants in employment and provide for. At least I mean over a five year period that 10 percent of the federal civil service jobs should be made available for people to work on in irregular hours that's a particularly important thing for women. The whole question of having to work from 9:00 to 5:00 to those who have families are very tough. So two women could share a full time job. All kinds of things like that could be done and we hope

that that will be passed very shortly. Patsy Mink had a very important piece of legislation passed women's educational equality act. It's going to deal with the inequalities in education hysteria types and so on. I got an amendment passed one of them to the pension reform bill which increases the eligibility of women in early age and so on. I have attached all the bills that I've had and having to deal with in my Public Works Committee whether it's a mass transit bell which I've had a great deal of involvement with in this last session or water resources baler water pollution bill an economic development build a madman's against discrimination women in those jobs because a lot of the Civil Rights Act does provide for provisions in which prevent discrimination against women on account of sex. Title 6 does not until that's amended we have to have these additional amendments on

specific pieces of legislation. I'm particularly interested in the woman who has spent most of her life working not in the factory not in the field not in the office but in the home because people mistake what a struggle for equality is it's for women. Women in the home and out of the home women are out there right. Yes to choose to leave the home and work if they wish but there are many women who work at Social Security. You know well as I have often said I'm very embedded to Chase Manhattan as if everybody has them. But I mean for a pamphlet which is called What's a wife worth and which they list all the occupations women who stay at home you know laundress and chauffeur and cook them clean and the cab driver and whatnot and estimate that the woman is worth

and the salary roughly eighty five hundred dollars a year. And Scott as estimated that worth of being 13000 any case she doesn't get play. She's lucky she gets a little allowance like a child. But I think that certainly when she faces an age in which her. You know years have gone by and she's put in all this labor that she should be able to get Social Security and so I have proposed the homemakers benefit which is got a long way to go in the Congress because it will require you know funding at the moment of general revenues we will have some disagreements as to how it should be funded. But a woman should not be dependent upon either a husband or for benefits you should be able to get it in her own right. So we need to eat more affecting Social Security taxes and so on. When women are concerned much more than the divorced women

and we're trying to provide doesn't have to be divorced. Twenty years before she gets certain benefits we're trying to lower that five years and things of that crime has generally a disregard for the single woman the woman of the having a family in the laws as we have it on the books in every form and we've got to try to change that and we have many pieces of legislation which are there for that purpose. Below many women are very concerned about the abortion amendment amendments amendments what I think is going to happen. Well we've had several In other words that was people may represent think of you in the country among all of the major screw ups Catholic Jewish Protestant that Biskupic and so on but they're very vocal. There's been an effort to reverse the Supreme Court decision which but it's a matter of choice.

Woman has a right to abortion on the first line 14th Amendments as a matter of privacy by not getting a reversal decision because they really can't as a matter fact just the other day there was another decision which of the Supreme Court made one of the amendments that was passed in the house unconstitutional. So what people didn't try to do was conduct an end run around the Supreme Court decision which guarantees a fundamental right to various other pieces of legislation prohibitions against using funds for either counseling or abortion or even birth control some of the gun quite far we've beaten back a couple in the very. But there were a couple concerning our funds for a hospital hospital instruction Bill that's the one the Supreme Court I think the other day has changed which said that you know a hospital if it didn't as a condition of getting funds have to make abortion available even though it is the law of the land. Well there was a recent

case that just came up. The Supreme Court said that a state could not prohibit abortion and they would have to make this abortion available in hospitals so that when that which was passed I think is now knocked out of the box. There's something about utilizing the funds for family planning and so on not being able be used for abortion advice or abortions in the Foreign Assistance Act which I think will not stand up. And there's now one that's still in committee which we defeated in the house but which the Senate perhaps the appropriations that funds there and could not be used. For abortions and I think it's subject to attack on many constitutional grounds and I'm hopeful that the conferees in conference will reject it. What it's all about is this. You have a right of choice and I don't think that those who have a different point of view whether it's out of a religious conviction or even one of conscience or to seek to impose their view which is a minority view through the legislative process. The rest of the country.

You don't have to have an abortion if you disapprove of it and that's correct. At the same time you have no right to deprive somebody else of that right. That's essentially what the Supreme Court is saying. And that's the strength of this country the freedom of choice. And I think that's is how it has to be. It has to provide for that it's really. Also somewhat hypocritical because there are at least a million abortions a year and it's not a question of whether to have abortions or it's just a matter of how to make sure that they take place in a safe way in way in which people are not humiliated or physically maimed by you know you know abortion quack or solve most of these laws and the Congress are going to this if they continue these efforts to amend existing laws and not allow fines which normally would provide funds whether it's for Medicare and other areas of funding which would involve abortion abortion counseling. Really discriminating against poor people because anybody who has any money so always been able to get an

abortion. So I have another extra thing for their effort that plank away their rights because essentially it would have been. Taking away the rights of poor people and that really is too much. Bill you have a hundred percent pro labor voting record you. And you don't always get support from labor and. Other women candidates don't either. What's at work there. But explain it was very tough I did get the support of the CIO which means all of labor this time around this is my third time around. But it took until this time to get it and I don't have 100 percent labor record but I'm probably one of the most pro labor among the pros pro-labor in the Congress having once been a lawyer before I practiced before I came to Congress representing unions. So it's a lifetime commitment. It's part of the male domination of our institutions political women I'm not the heads of the unions even though they are very often the majority of the membership.

And labor plays as you know an important political role just as our political parties do not back up women running for office with money or support endorsement neither the labor unions. They're all in the business of making kings but not queens. They actually do not seem to wish to share power with women or not yet fully prepared to accept women in leadership. However I think changes are taking place the age of the CIO support of the Equal Rights Amendment I believe will go far in helping to get the Equal Rights Amendment ratified. There was some women in this last election who did get endorsement and support financial from unions. There are a lot of places where half the women have gotten initial support and endorsement and funding from the unions as well as from. The poddy as well as from all the do gooder groups like the Committee for an effective Congress and others that give funding to candidates. We would have had more women running on the national levels. A lot of women ran

on local and state levels and got elected. That takes less money less support it's easier to deal with and these of course the future mayors and governors and members of Congress for 76 and 78 and so I suspect that Labor is going to have to come along. When we say Labor It isn't everybody there is some leadership that. Still has some resistance to change. I guess they feel that way and they feel that women are identifiable with change with conducting a struggle right now in the Democratic. Party which has had such marvelous reforms in 68 and 72 so that when we had 30 percent women at the Democratic convention in 68 we had upwards of 40 percent and 70 as a result of reforms. Now some people are trying to turn those reforms back. Even though as a result of. Two excellent committees the McCalls the committee and the Achad Commission there was agreement reached through compromise in our party as to how we maintain these

reforms that make sure the party remains open. You know all of its affairs to women young people minorities and that we encourage them. We're having a little mini convention in the Sambre at which this issue will be. Brought up. And we in the women's movement are organizing all of the delegates as well as the elected officials and those who are in the party to support the reforms brought out in the amount of money and in working with you. Well the National Women's Political Caracas the National Democratic Committee has its own caucus of women. And the National Women's Political Caucus the Democrats in the working on that. And we have a committee set up there are corrent horrible who heads that committee and that they're an MSA separate and Phyllis Siegal who's been with the who is on the affirmative action delegation of the Konski commission myself. Working on a very hot ballot some of the people who are sort of critical of women say that it took a long time to get the vote and are still using it right away using it now.

Come calm. It's true it took us all these years to use it we've been using it until now only to elect men you know that there is no political party no election campaign no political event in the United States that could take place with a hot backbreaking work of women. Now we've told. Differently. We ran. State Senator Mary in my great state of New York. Against the party the party the liberals and the regulars in the party did not want to support her and did not nominate her. Neither of the gubernatorial candidates that were running against each other would accept her. I fought for her in each of the conventions and with all of the gubernatorial candidates. Finally we made a campaign a woman and I and others when we beat them in the streets in the primaries so women came out in big numbers and the polls show that they voted more. For merienda than that then did the men but obviously men and women voted for. The same thing is seen in the projection of the candidacy of Ella Grasso the governor of

Connecticut. And they can assume better of Robinson and then for the Senate in Oregon and so on. Women are using their vote for women but men are also voting for women they think women are going to bring a new decency into politics and that's what they have they have for. Now it's taken us a little time to convince women who after all are the products of our society. To accept women in leadership. Women always used to be afraid to go to women doctors right now problem because they learned that there's a greater understanding of women given by women. We want women in rape cases because otherwise rape cases are not properly prosecuted. We want well we have 30 seconds. I just want to ask you one more question. Thank you.