Woman; 030; Women as a Political Force

It's not discussing women as a political force. Our guests see fire and sold president of the National Women's Political Caucus and former state legislator for Texas. Also with us is Ruckelshaus special assistant to the counselor to the president and wife of the acting FBI director. Both of you very much in the forefront of the political arena today. What do you think from a realistic point of view. President I think so long and that's I think that's a real possibility. I think you know there was a poll that showed over 70 percent of the population could if the spirit of the country at that. I think that the fact that we elected 20 percent more women to state legislators. Put another emphasis on it. What I'm anxious to see is greater

participation in the electoral process of women on the state local level and national level and then out of that will have that reservoir of skill and talent and experience. We don't have it now. I mean when you think that today we do not have one U.S. senator that's a woman. We do not have one woman that is a governor and Ordinarily it's from this area that your nation tickets are generally developed so I think the emphasis needs to be put on the elect women in other states not Constance in Congress the time wasn't there when the women Congressman albeit the congressman who died while they were 15 women in the House of Representatives is that right. There is no woman senator now that is an increase I think what last 11 but we're just playing around with with just such small number when you think of the percentage of women in this

country in the size of the of the U.S. it's elective and appointed government in the country. So in over 50 years of the enfranchise were so successful at the last election but you were runner up in the vice presidential campaign to send illegals and how what do you attribute this to. Well I attribute that in great part to the Women's Political Caucus. My candidacy down there which was spearheaded by the Women's Caucus. It picked up support from other segments of the delegation but it was principally a woman spearheaded and of course as far as I was concerned its principal point was. To advocate an open convention in the selection of the vice

presidency and I think in the future we'll see something along that line develop. No all I remember was I had four hundred and twenty votes and I think six and this if there was a chance to go to a second ballot and some of the votes were on and so on. But aside from that and also what it did was it broke a barrier. And unless those barriers are broken people will never get past that point of sort of thinking in stereotypes. I felt the same way about the governor's race in Texas. I mean you get past that point of the obstacle being that you're a woman and looked at other factors involved. When you go on. I never know I think that I care a great deal for public life and the public sector. But I just don't know. I've never been able to program my

political life and I really am not motivated unless I feel I have a function. And so I have to remain sort of get this the closer to the seat of power power rubs off. How many presidential advisors are there right now for the first time the country. Responsibility is one of them and of the of the woman part of her office. There's a variety of fronts including cost the council the council and their great many other things. For the first time in all of us and as a result of the political culture perhaps it's only my appointment with

it's a reflection of the numbers of the middle at the present moment 72 percent. The response on the part of the federal government but it's been very good in the last four years. I think historically when we look back and see at what point the federal government began looking at itself and saying we've got to do something very self-consciously about putting more women talk about the early 1970s. There is now a Council of Economic Advisers for the first time with energy commissioner to women chairing the federal regulatory agencies for the first time. And this is a reflection of the pressure of. How does your husband feel about your what does this kind of conflict any kind of problem. But no more so than the conflict that in the works I work part time and full time. So there's that

conflict. But in terms of us both working for the federal government no we're both for a cause that we believe in and it's very supportive of everything that I have been incredibly reasonable about the thing and in the beginning and he encouraged me to run for the legislature. I've always said that there will never be any race more difficult than my first race in 1968 when I ran for the legislature I wasn't the token I was with Joe and that he urged me without question as I became more immersed in my work. It became more difficult. But again when I had to make the decision in 72 about where I was going he encouraged me to run for the governor's position something I really appreciated because so many people flinched at the idea in the beginning that he didn't go and just the other evening I was talking to him because so right now I don't know really where I'm going personally but as Jill

and I are both involved in the caucus have been E.R. and such things that it takes me away a great part of the time he was saying that I couldn't stop. So I guess you'd say that's exceedingly released. Equal rights you know. Do you think any particular type of woman that that gets into politics are there any underlying similarities or con to generals you know of course you know the whole thing I say. I came to the woman's movement through politics of the women's movement wasn't even wasn't even a term in Texas in 1968. I went into politics because I've always been interested in it. I knew the obstacles that I felt once if I was elected that was obstacles of being a woman and one thing which would would go away. They did not. But that's that's another subject. Oh when I got there though that there were

areas of biased neglect that what we generally call women's issues. So and now in the Texas legislature instead of being one woman as it was the two terms I serve their six and happily there are different types of different characteristics different backgrounds different terrain different races and so I don't think there's any occasion I know there's a stereotype. Yes and you too incidentally are both very different from the traditional stereotype. You're both very quietly spoken and at least you know on the coinage of this is the way you come over do you feel this is to your advantage. Do you does it. Well I think that I think that the conference that's been successful and I think your temperament I'm constantly

not returned by the other women in the field. Good heavens look at the number of men. That's the difference. Is there any one particular female politician who you think is particularly effective. Do you see if you think of biased numbers for example on a graded morrow Bella Abzug. I've often thought of it and I don't think I could get seven votes in her district. I wouldn't be heard for one thing. It's a verse of tremendous ability. And I just have a great respect and I don't think you have much in common you know to just see the two of us together that I think we might see Texas with one of them. But that's just one person I'm sure there are others. Shirley Chisholm. Mary

Bell I have worked with them. And I'm in no way connecting with obstacles or any specific person but I've said very often that we're in a position political power they very often sell out to other women in other words they don't as many women as they perhaps might when this dolphin they don't campaign as actively fought for women's course at this do you think there's any truth to this and if so can you explain psychological phenomena. I would because I think that's one of those fallacies. But let me say it again from my own experience. One of the myths that there could only be punctured by being challenged is this thing of women not working for other women. I've seen the change from 1968 to 70 who ran in greater and greater numbers and participate in their hearts out.

But I've been able to reciprocate so that to me that's I think it's one of them. I think so. Getting other women to accept the acceptance of things. And I see it now and I can't wait to think that Barbara Jordan among Bradway from California. That sort of thing Colorado or all women were acutely conscious of them in the Congress and what they mean to other women with fire the public will listen and feel very

responsible for that national constituency. Yeah I think that there was a tremendous sense of and I know from the experience of isolation in the states that I don't think women office holders now here and then there's there's an awareness and with that isolation that no one had a mountain experience with when I went to the Texas legislature and I wanted to introduce legislation for State Human Relations Commission that would prohibit discrimination based upon race religion. At the background and the professor that was drafting the legislation would add six and I said no let's concern ourselves with the minorities he insisted that he wouldn't. Well one term later and two years later when I reintroduce that legislation in the Texas legislature I had no qualms whatsoever about adding say it's prohibited AIDS no discrimination based on sex simply because of what I had

learned that I was not aware of literally using conflict is greater in politics than perhaps in a state you know I think you just don't you know for example I say that in Texas that I'll take my chances with the electorate rather than write this law isn't that really you know I mean that that's just how it's done. So I think there are those problems and all the institutions and the old institutions that are powerful. We have had this dichotomy in this country you know from finance economics of all the professions and technology of the US they with its deadliest offspring of modern warfare and politics where the power of his has been masculine dominated and principally white male domination. And we have served as handmaidens. You know 90 percent for example all dieticians librarians elementary school teachers and nurses are you know those have been less

political than the country but in a situation of capacity as I said had I waited on the Democratic candidate party and my ways to run for office I'd still be answering no. So you found it in that institution. I think the caucus the National Political Caucus is playing so well now that it's encouraging that the best experience in politics who volunteer isn't taking the polls and addressing the courts and the process of working there and really know what the source think of themselves as supporting candidates. But they were the kind of movement it was the caucus set up and how long has it been going.

Well it was organized in 1971 so it was old as Clinton and I think it's reflective of really the need if this will feel that it has developed as as it has not really I think when it was before I was involved because I was down running for all its something was its insistence of that it was time for a woman to be appointed to the Supreme Court and I think people now are gentle with that. I wanted to mention one thing before it passed and as I say that I have participated Neal that whole process which is what a lot of great deal and I haven't had a textbook to do it. And though I think there are three terms that come to my mind that up and go are prerequisites and they're things that I've lived but I think you can generalize from. First is an awareness and I think you are speaking of that there's a greater awareness and you had to have the awareness before you didn't. And then you have to have a new assertiveness. And I think what you're speaking of the role of the caucus in getting women into

moving on past the so much of the work they've done has called for a new assertiveness. And then I think there comes a time for what I call audacity and it's the audacity that breaks down the barriers and develops things for the future. Do you think the caucus has taken the place of the League of Women Voters. There is a distinction. Yes I know that the League of Women Voters is non Fargus active in jail and I are sitting here I think it's reflective of one of the characteristics of the caucus and that is that it is multiple orders. I was going to ask you a question along those lines do you do you ever find that the Republican versus Democrat contest takes place within the caucus in a good place and perhaps obscure was the greatest goal in any way. Well yes we have preliminary skirmishes all the time in that there's a difference of opinion over whether the administration is going properly or what legislation is pushing for and

what kind of a public stance to take against it. Perhaps legislation has been passed there hasn't been this in the in the long run to get back to the to the aims of the caucus in that everyone is and has been able to bring themselves together we survived a presidential campaign and remained in Dec and in the 6 and 7 and because of that if it if it is successful it is so much more effective and non violence. There's only one place and that's I mean if you are involved if you intend to be involved if you intend to be heard in politics there's only one place to be and that's in the political realm. What you see is it as. As the caucuses main objective main goal. Would you like to see it accomplished and what we were talking about here about what is overdue. Business isn't right. That's the equal rights and equal rights and now what. What do you think of the first of all the amount of publicity they call Rights Amendment has been

given in the news. It's just think it's been given sufficient coverage. Well I think that I think if I only say this without sounding permanent I think the coverage has been. Skewed so that the media has picked up the fact that there is conflict and that the amendment isn't being passed as quickly as in their eyes that they had expected to see it when in fact I think the discussion that's going on was quite healthy. Think that the National Congress 50 years to answer all the questions and I'm not surprised that state legislators are raising questions themselves and trying to get to the bottom of what the full legal implications. Thirty states have ratified the equal wisemen within the first historically or were two thirds of all humans to our Constitution and taken over two years to be ratified by the states so I don't think we're in all that heavy weather than you might want for Flo. So you're very optimistic. I have six more years in which the we have a lot of work to do and I as I said we were to overbet I think when you shift from the congressional level to the state

legislatures level it's a different operation. I know from my own experience in the Texas house it wouldn't carry any weight for a group to come down and say if we have the support of 50 national organizations that it just doesn't care to speak. But I think that there's going to have to be a public education. For one thing. On the part of women directed toward other women and I think in some areas this has been good. I think we need a broader base. And one of the things that is really distressed me as I've traveled over the country is and where I've found the active opposition of the state they have the bills the equal rights meant to be talking about female opposition about opposition of atenolol as this is and that is they may have their CIO in states such as Ohio Illinois Washington Maine just name it.

As I put it I'm puzzled that a spokesman for the working man has turned his back on them. But a lot of women themselves have second thoughts about it. They feel this is where I say the area of public education comes and you feel that there's any justification to the arguments that rather than giving extra sort of protection to not take away the protection which is already here and the privileges which already exist. I don't think those things can really stand once and now is it. No I sure don't. I think there's a lot of misinformation that's been put out either intentionally or has been believed by people who believe the source that it came from. No one's forcible it that that was sorely 53 percent of the population should not have to go to court to find the quality of the projects in the law which with we know enough to do so I think what all this new proposes is the extension of the

equal protection of the Constitution Constitution federal law and state law to men in their lives to bring women within the confines of the. It's rather simple when it doesn't. Possibilities for it as a matter of that sort of thing is that the same as it is then I think it's the right thing and there were some of the war your arguments years down in Texas against women serving on juries you know it always rankled me in that state that I was able to practice law before observing the ring. It's today that we were using that as a go Isn't this a pretty sad reflection I think it isn't but I think it's a reflection that we really didn't in the past and we sort of let that impetus to that was that something happened after that terrific thrust of the 19th Amendment as I've often said I don't know

what it was because I wasn't around but by the time I came around I think a bill of goods had been so politics wasn't feminine at least this was the case where I'm from. And you know it was simply something to stay away from. They say that women sometimes bring into politics with them the traditional characteristics or stereotypes that are associated with when you know such as the mature and woman the media to the possible minerals. Do you think if there is any vestige of truth in it do you think this makes women regardless of their political affiliations. Maybe it needs and it needs I think a woman's training and culturally is born with individual needs of her family the needs of the community. There's a superb article in the Princeton quarterly for a list of some characteristics

into the power structure. And it speaks of that. Perhaps that will help them. And again you know I don't like to over emphasize this because I don't want to attribute all public virtue to when we've seen both of them around and offices to the puzzle. I think that there's a bit of to an extent that this is what I think particularly when women no longer feel they have to be defensive. And I think what you were speaking of about the times in the past what I was speaking of the times when women were isolated. You had to prove yourself in the man's world in the political world and perhaps you didn't you weren't aware of your sisters. But I think that it's just to backtrack a little bit. Do you think there's anything in the rights amendment that prohibits job discrimination. What. Well it certainly says with the Equal Rights Movement says there's equality of rights and the laws will

not be denied or abridged by the United States or one of states and six and that means they're planning on being a distinction between 6:00 and federal or states. That's because we already have a similar statute right now on the books when we have discrimination of Title 7 of the civil rights of a would be broader than that. Listen we've got two minutes left and I'd like you to speculate if you would on a world that was 50 50 female as far as political our nation was concerned a totally egalitarian structure of what do you think this would be like. I think probably responses I think characteristic is to deal with individuals. And it's been our culture it's been a history of biological destiny to be concerned with the children the communities and that's when we find ourselves less concerned about territorial and interested in

other direct it is us the earlier though I don't want to attribute all virtue to women officeholders but I do think that perhaps areas that have been so sorely neglected in our exploitative side would be given some attention Steele said. These of the men who do survive not just in this kind but on this one. Thank you both very much for joining us and thank you for joining us. Goodnight from you.