Ch 17 Reports

What was your reaction to the results of the trial or of the disposition of the case in John's murder. Incensed incensed that a fine young man like John can simply be erased be erased and nothing seems to happen. Incensed is the word. Really a travesty of justice the whole thing. As far as charging accomplices I can tell you that if we had identification of anyone else involved there would be charges and there would be a prosecution. I'm Channel 17 reports this week. We'll examine the controversial murder of a

heavyweight described by many as a gentle giant. Twenty two year old John Turner was brutally beaten to death by members of Hamilton Ontario as notorious Parkdale gang following a weight lifting competition at Hamilton Place on August 16th 1980. Only one gang member was charged with murder and sentenced on a reduced plea of manslaughter is subject for parole next year. Frustrated family members and friends of Turner questioned the efforts made by the Hamilton police and attorneys for the crown. For them it is a question of justice. John Vernon Turner the only son of Mervyn and Jacqueline Turner grew up in the bucolic setting of storable. Some 40 miles north of Toronto. His was a typical life of sports in school and later helping his father in construction and working in a fish hatchery. He married his grammar school sweetheart the only girl he ever dated. What brought him to Hamilton in the last day of his life was a

wedding present from his best friend Armand Schaaf also a bodybuilder. The two young couples enjoying the weightlifting competition at Hamilton Place never dreamed they would be involved in a senseless killing in the strange city. What remains is bitterness grief and a lack of faith in the justice system by those close to John Turner and the apparent equal frustration of law enforcement officials. But in Canada and the United States Justice and the law sometimes seem to be at cross purposes to those who have suffered loss. Very well liked by everybody and I don't think you had a. Bad friend. Any problems ever. I never had any problems. No. Always. Do what you call them can always get it's grown. It's always in sport. It was very easy going. We would never impose on anyone. He was always in a good mood and. He was just

nice to have around. He used to say he liked my company too because I never put pressure on him. I didn't either we just got along very nicely. My best friend really a best man friend and of course he loved sports and was really. Devoted to hockey when he was at it then he became too old to play anymore and he went into the weightlifting and he was really. You know every day's food had to be. Proper and his training had to be proper in fact he would have the victim and he's to get in his training. That's how devoted he was. How long did you know John and how long were you married. I knew for about. 10 years. And we went together for about seven. Or three months. How was his temperament. Was yours. Terrific. They say well they're. Very polite. Everybody we talk to says there's anybody if we see

him or he would be. Violent or upset or anything. However. That's one thing I'm grateful for that at least they have each other. For that time. And he did have a nice wedding and he did have some of the joys you know before. Before it happened. And he did have a wonderful childhood he really love our house and the area. And. He just loves the woods to walk in the woods and he swam in the pond every day come home from work and just dive off that. Diving Board no to go swim across and back and just loved it. So. Those are the things to be grateful for. You know that he did. Enjoy his life up to that point he really did. This was John Turner's school installed where he became interested in bodybuilding and physical fitness. And were his ability and character will be remembered. What do they do here in the school and memory and they

contribute a trophy in his name which is given to the best male athlete every year. And his all around nature how would you describe it. Oh a very good job you know a very as I say very soft spoken very polite never pushed his way around because of not that I know of no no I mean first time I knew John was was always a gentle giant. They're very quiet very well-mannered and I think really the students always looked up to John. Anybody ever provoke him. If you side yard there you were through like you did try to provoke John but I can remember incidents when other people might have lost their cool but John never did. I think I remember in grade 10 when using grade 10 and one of the teachers of that inexperience sort of blew up at a bunch of the boys and he sort of yelled at John and said What's your

name. John said. JT Sir John Turner and that's one of boys he always spoke very very quietly. I think it's him it was impossible to provoke John Turner. He was just that type of person. What was your reaction to the results of the trial or the disposition of the case and John's murder. Incensed. Incensed at a fine young man like John can simply be erased be erased and nothing seems to happen. Incensed is the word. Really a travesty of justice the whole thing. Immediately after the attack on Turner police issued a nationwide assault warrant for the arrest of George MacIntyre a member of the Parkdale gang following Turner's death became a warrant for second degree murder. MacIntyre whose arrest record shows 13 criminal charges since 1974 surrendered to authorities three months after the murder. McIntyre never went to trial.

He was allowed to plead guilty to the lesser count of manslaughter and last September began serving a three year term and Millhaven maximum security prison outside of Kingston Ontario. If he remains on good behavior McEntire can walk out of those prison gates a free man next year. What was the mood of the day the four of you want to have a place for the weightlifting competition. Who. Was happy. Excited. Almost immediately after. The decision was made. Pursuit to the washrooms. McIntyre was pacing up and down. The side of the doors. May be like a lion in the cage. Maybe. Really seem to be upset about something. Shaking his head and. Saying. No no no. This man lost. Yes yes. And. We went to

the washroom. There was one other person. Far as I can recall quite sure there's one other person in the washroom. It was either me or John who said and I can remember up to this day we said that. Something like this guy out there he's a real idiot you know because he definitely made an ass of himself on stage. He did moon in Standish Yes yes. So. One of us commented about it. And I still don't know who. And when we then left the washroom. This man who was in the washroom with us before. US before us. Who then came out. This MacIntyre came up to us. Both of us myself at this time. Raising his fists. And saying. If you've got something to say to me say no. And then I thought. Oh God this guy. Must be crazy. To want to start a fight with us too. I guess he weighed about

150 pounds each Well resit the time and with that much of what. We do. In the area of 245. Well while he was making the comment he raised his fists and John was in front of me. And I was just behind John. Naturally. John. Hit him. But McIntyre tried to hit John first. By raising his fists. You raise your fists you know you're definitely going to hit someone. So then what happened. Well fight. I tried to intervene. I did never get a chance to intervene between the two. Because I soon I got halfway in between them. I got hit in the head several times. And I turned around. It's hard to see how many men were there and I would say in the area for a dozen to 15 maybe more. What. Can you tell me. Happened. When you.

And. I was friends who came out of the washroom did you. Know you were there something that happened. Oh yeah. I mean before you came out did you hear any commotion. Yeah there was a little girl that came into the washroom and said there was a big fight outside. I was. Going to. Try to get one of the guys off and he threw her to the ground. And I went over to see she was alright. Saw John lying on the ground. Was anybody around him at the time. But. Stan watching but the attack had been more or less over how various. People scatter the perpetrators. Yeah. Police were there. By the time I got to. The time I saw. I don't know if they were there. Or.

Did you have any help. All I know there was numerous bystanders. It was about I would say. Just me and bystanders. Male and female. Again ironically a female tried to jump in between between me. And all the attackers including my girlfriend. They were both from the side. And the beating to see that. Until it finally went down. How long does it take. Time to say we took a very long time to me it seemed like it took. 10 minutes five minutes. At a time we just we didn't know what hit us. Like when I turned around I got hit so bad. That. Immediately upon that fight starting a group of individuals as yet unidentified. Jumped into the fracas and the result of that was that Mr Turner made his death. I can tell you that. In this case. The.

Matter was. Tried in September of one thousand eighty one. The accused decided on his own through his counsel to approach me with a guilty plea to manslaughter. Having regard to the evidence that I had in the burden it was on me to prove my case beyond a reasonable doubt. I felt that to accept this. Was a reasonable decision. I made no agreement with defense counsel as regards cental sentence or any penalty. Nor did I make any agreement with the judge. My feeling was that I should ask for a substantial period of incarceration in a federal penitentiary and I did so. When did you first see the victim John Turner. The body was brought to the mortuary here. Hamilton JENNER. Hospital on the edge of the world was 1980 and we commenced our post-mortem examination in the early afternoon of that day. And what were the findings of your autopsy. Well he had a number of injuries to his face and had bruises and lacerations

but the principal injury was an injury to the back of the neck. There was very extensive bruising of the tissues of the back of the neck which extended down to the blood vessels around the spine and one of these blood vessels at the top of the spine. Was ruptured. And this had caused a massive hemorrhage around the base of the brain. It was this hemorrhage which actually caused his death. Are you satisfied with the police investigation in this case. I don't think the police are really done what they could have. I think that. I think they could have all these guys if they really wanted to. You think we could I think they could have charged them all if they really if they're really you run after them. I've talked to the. Superintendent of the Criminal Investigation Division as well as the crown attorney. And they indicate to me that. They. Just couldn't get enough concrete evidence to make.

The case. Stand up in court and murder second and they said that at least by a plea bargain they knew they could put this chap away for four years. What do you think of that. Well. Naturally I'm not satisfied with it. Who would this sentence somebody to three or three or four years when when he won't tell who is accomplices are. I think somebody like that should get the maximum prison I felt. In the Turner matter that the case was was not strong at all especially as it related to a charge of murder charge at the police Lee. I felt that the best possible result in that case would have been a conviction for manslaughter and certainly if we'd gone to trial that wasn't that wasn't assured. The burden of proof is something I have to assess and the burden of proof in Canada expect us somewhere in the United States is beyond a reasonable doubt. I had to prove. Mr. Macintyre guilty of murder beyond a reasonable doubt and I did not feel

that I could do that. Well Mr. told me when he first talked to me that it would last about two weeks. And. They would. Have all the witnesses on the stand and. Talk to him. And. Just like a regular case I guess. And then the day of the. Trial he took me up to his. Office and said. We don't have enough evidence. We can't. Get him for anything else. Except starting a fight. We can arrest any of the other guys that were involved. Because no one will come forward. And. Then Mr. Ryan said. This is the police officer the detective Oh yes. Sir. I have to live in Hamilton and my family has to live in Hamilton and we like the city. So. In other words to me they were saying. That if

we do anything about this gang then our families are going to get involved. And we don't want them and the family feels that it certainly isn't logical for a man of Mr. Macintyre size to approach Mr. Turner and Mr.. For each one of them is twice the size of this little man and and all and try to engagement a fight and all of a sudden when the fight starts some 10 or 20 other persons allegedly were involved supposedly from the same party. They all gang. They may or may not be from the same park game. We're not sure of that because we don't know who they are. To answer that question I think you have to look at the type of individual we're dealing with with Mr. Macintyre. Mr. Macintyre it is my understanding fancied himself. A tough guy in a street fighter. And I have no hesitation in saying that. When he became involved in this fight. No matter what his size relative to the other two individuals. He felt he could handle

himself quite capably. I have no doubt of that. Of course Mr. Macintyre was there to imagine along with many others from the Parkdale gang to witness the contest with one of their own. That's correct. So it's not out about it that there were a lot of members of the gang there to cheer on their rights and I believe it was persons that the police in the past have associated with as members of the Perko gang were in attendance. There's no question I think that the bruising and the injuries to the face and neck could have been caused by one person. But Mr. Turner was an extremely well developed muscular man and I would have thought he must have been restrained in some way at the time the injuries were inflicted. I suppose that might suggest that there was another person or persons involved. Now witnesses have said that. A bench press was involved in the attack on your son.

To. The Crown. Pursue this. Not that I know this was. The Crown's one of the things the crown was going to pursue when I spoke to Mr Carr. But one of the defense witnesses seeing. Somebody. Grab the bench press but they didn't see what. He did with it. Another word they didn't want to see what he did with it because that was a witness for the defense. The doctor said that he was kicked in the head so many times. And he had to be hit with a heavy object that did the brain damage was so extensive. The doctor had never seen anything like it before in his life. Or practice I should say. Now when it come to trial the defense lawyer said he could have been kicked in the head by a running shoe not a running book. But in other words he was kicked so many

times. For the crown and the judge and the defense lawyer to come up with Addicks. That that you know that's just a lie. Did you see anyone kick or choke him you know the only thing I really saw was fists flying at my head. It's not too much I could see. I don't. Like the fighting about and up about 20 15 yards apart. This was a massive head injury. Could it be determined it is a massive brain injury as well. Well it was principally a neck injury with the hemorrhage extending in to the head to run the brain. There were really was not any immediate brain bruising as a result of the head injuries. So the cause of death was principally related to an injury to the back of the neck. It's been alluded to that a running shoe could have caused these massive injuries.

Could it have been something heavier that the man was extremely muscular. He was very well developed and the injury was quite severe. Thought it was more likely to have been caused by something much heavier. Nevertheless a well-aimed soft shoe could certainly cause quite serious injury that could have been something heavier like oh much surfacing or something like that it would have been yes. Was there any evidence of strangulation. No there was no evidence of strangulation. I can say not quite categorically the doctor did indicate that to cause such an injury a severe blow must have been delivered. But at the same time he would indicate that this blow could be delivered by almost anything including running shoes. What about a bench press. That's possible. Nobody came forward to say that they saw anybody wheeling a bench press. No there was evidence that I had that at one point one of the attackers reached for a bench press and passed it into the fray. What use was made of it. What happened to Turner as a result of this occurring I don't

know. No witness was able to assist me. Did you ask to see mug shots of members of this park. At the time. When I was asked to be given to give my statement it was immediately after the fight I was very badly severely beaten up. I was not admitted to the hospital. Before that. At the time I trusted the police I. Thought. We know. They knew what they were doing. But when I thought about it later I was wondering about it. The investigation the first the first few months as you well know. Proved very unsuccessful. I mean the only reason why they. Got McIntyre. Into Custody was because it turned the man turn himself in. I'd probably still be over the streets right now. To my knowledge all witnesses that we could reasonably expect that

who was involved in this particular incident were shown pictures of known associates of Macintyre and known associates of the Parkdale game anybody eyeballed as being there no identification whatsoever and I can point out that the only reason in my view that we had identification of Mr. Macintyre was for two reasons firstly that he bared his rear end on stage. People have a habit of noticing such things. And secondly he was pacing angrily in the corridor by himself and drew attention to himself that way. Well I think that the home of. The place Force and the crown that. Handled the thing very shoddily I think it should have been trial should have been held and like they said it was going to be. If you ask for a change of venue or ow I talk to the place and. They said that the trial is going to be how and try. And so the witnesses wouldn't be afraid of these characters. We have had statements made that from certain

witnesses that they saw this and they saw that. And yet when I saw a release from your attorney general it's just the opposite. I don't know I just didn't see that I can't say for sure. Are these witnesses in fear or do you feel they may have been intimidated. I do. I do not fear or feel that at all. On the contrary these witnesses are independent people that come from many parts of Ontario. As a matter of fact from Windsor from Brampton from Toronto these witnesses attended the bodybuilding championships then either to to watch or to sell merchandise. And in attempting to identify Mr. Macintyre and others that were involved in the assault on Mr. Turner they were doing the best they could. It happened very quickly. There were a great number of people involved people that they had not seen or heard of before that time and they honestly were not able to identify anyone.

Efforts to interview Hamilton police about John Turner's murder led us to Superintendent George Frid though he declined an on camera interview he openly answered all of our questions. His findings bear out the Crown's contention that based on the evidence there was no alternative to accepting MacIntyre's plea to the lesser charge of manslaughter. Superintendent Fred also said that given additional evidence or witnesses there would be further arrests in the Turner murder. To plan any kind of legal action at all against. The city of Hamilton or Hamilton place over this tragedy. Yeah. I was. Home to see Hamilton pace. How much. For five now and. It's going to be in the works so that if it is right now yeah. What kind of. Frustrations have you been experiencing in this tragedy. Well it's been rage all along. You know.

That. All the time that you put into raising a child. And the love and just to have it wasted like that. And his life wasted. So it's been raging first ration and then the awful fear that the killer wouldn't be. Found guilty and then finally he was found guilty. And now it's. Why aren't why isn't more they gang. In jail. So there's that frustration you know what needs to be done. To put your mind to rest. If that's at all possible. That they're all caught. That. Makes me sick that they can walk around and. Do the same thing to someone else. You don't feel justice was done to.

The done this before. Gotten away with it. I don't think anything will ever amount to arrest over the tragedy. I've. Stopped bodybuilding. Wanted to mean John. We're going to be competitive bodybuilders. I tried to. Stop by to get him. Through the past year. But. Things come back to my mind when I pick up my weight. It's very very hard for me. To. Do it now. And. Think. I still have nightmares. Months. After that. Is this case closed. Absolutely not going to sure sure that any leads that the police find will be followed up followed up upon. And if any of the other

individuals involved in this assault are found they will prosecute.