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Rob, I can honey, you're scheduled to go on trial in your native Israel, but you're not going to be there, right? No, I'm not going to be there. I'm not here on a tour speaking tour. Let me first tell you what that draws about. This edition is a charge, right? That's a tremendous charge, like with Mandela. It was also charged with terrible, terrible things. What does that mean? It was a day after the murder of 16 Jews on a bus in Israel, inside Jerusalem. We heard a rally with a permit in which I stated that the Arabs in our midst are the ones that are killing us, and they are a cancer within our midst, and those that feel that that's not ethical and not right are partners to the murder of innocent Jews.

If you think that that is the kind of language which, in this country, would put someone on trial, then you and I have very, very different ideas of what freedom of speech is. We're not talking about some innocent people, some foreigners that we're talking about Arabs who live in our country and who daily murdered Jews. But you're talking about all Arabs, aren't you? What I'm talking about is the Arab who murdered those Jews, the day before he had murdered them, was looked upon as an innocent Arab. I don't know which Arab tomorrow will be murdering Jews. Now we are prepared to offer the Arabs a choice. If they wish to live in our country, the Jewish state, and it is the Jewish state, then they may do so. If they accept a status in which they have personal rights, just as Jews have, the equal personal rights, social and religious, economic, cultural, but they will not be citizens.

We Jewish people, suffice for 1900 years, we had no states, and we enjoyed such wonderful benefits from the world as programs and crusades and acquisitions and holocaust. We don't trust the world. Arabs have been murdering Jews in that country, not in the last five years or ten years or 20 years, since 1920, 70 years. You don't just target those people who are, have committed a crime and who are guilty. You target the whole Arab world, you're every Arab. You're right, because... And that's racist, isn't it? No. Hardly. That's really an absurd statement to make. We live in an era in which racism is thrown out at everything. Well, I'm one of those people that doesn't get shook up by being called a racist. One goes, I'm not. And secondly, I don't want to give people that use that term. The feeling that I'll use that term in Ghana will back away.

I don't back it from anything. This isn't a racist problem. The same Arab who tomorrow morning would become a Jew is a Jewish as I am. That isn't a racist problem. We have two peoples, each of whom believes it is their country. That same Arab, who yesterday was an innocent Arab, he didn't murder Jews. Today murdered Jews. I am not prepared to allow people to live in my country unless they get up and they state we agree that it is your country. And if they won't, out of my country. And you're calling for the removal of all Arabs from Jews. Any Arab who is not prepared to live under those conditions. Doesn't it bother you that those words are the basis of a trial? Could that happen in this country? I'm not sure that it could, but I know it. I know it.

You and your party were barred from, even running from, and that could have happened in this country either. That's why this country is a democracy in the real sense of the term. You don't bar parties because you don't like what they say. I may not like you. So what? That isn't relevant. You have an absolute right to run. And I have a right to run because once you start barring parties, where does it end? Where does it end? What happens if I have power? Can I bar parties that I don't like? Where does it end? And yet, I mean, one of your concerns is that the Arab birth rate is greater than that of the Israeli birth rate, and that bothers you. It would bother anybody if his country was taken over by people either through bullets or through babies. Get it clear, I didn't found Israel. The people that found it Israel, called it the Jewish state. And if you think that there was one Jew in Israel who was ready to really in his heart,

although they are able to take that country through the democratic process, but you don't know the people inside Israel, I say what most people think, and that's the tremendous difference. When you start considering birth rate and whether somebody is going to have more people than you had, isn't that what the Egyptians thought when they first enslaved Jews? That hey, the birth rate is growing and there may be more of them than us some one day. You're right. And they therefore should have allowed the Jews to leave, and not make them slaves. I don't want to make the Arabs slaves. Well, contrary. But you don't want those Palestinians, because you don't like that word either. You don't want those Palestinians to have a country. On the contrary, any time that they would like to make Jordan Palestine fine, I don't care. What are you through that extremist term aside, you are extreme, aren't you? You know, I don't, you know, one of the great problems is that people that can't debate the fame, it's easy to use labels.

Okay. I don't know what George Washington was to the, to the Tories, but he certainly was probably an extremist. One man, Mandela in South Africa, to the whites, was certainly not Santa Claus. He's an extremist. The ANC uses bombs. Does that make them an extremist group, a terrorist group? To some people? Yes. To you, perhaps not. Bear in mind the PLO IQOI terrorist group, the Arabs doubt. When we use violence against the Soviets to free Russian, Russian, Russian Jews, some, some, some people said it's a terrorist group. And some people, people didn't. We judge God in the end, well, of course, have to judge who was the terrorist and who was the freedom fighter. Of course, your country is going through some real, difficult times right now, government that neither party has majority.

You've written a new book, Israel Revolution, a referendum, right? Are you suggesting that there may be civil war in Israel? Yes, it could be. I think that what is happening. Are you just trying to alarm us or do you really do, you really believe that? Everything I've always said in my whole life, I really believe. I live there and I see the corrosion of the soul of the, of the, of the young Jew. The territories are either ours or they're not ours. If they are not ours and they're occupied, we should not be there. If they are, a lot of people think you shouldn't be there. That's right. I want a referendum, which will, which will make decisions. Shall we leave the territories or annex them? Shall we give the Arabs total equal rights with all the consequences or shall we give them a choice and then transfer them? But of course, you know what that referendum would say to the people with, the majority would say, no, you've done the polling, right?

That's what you say. You've been reading, well, you haven't, you've been, you've pulled the people, you've been, but you haven't, you've been, you've pulled the people, you know what they're going to say in a vote, don't you? Do you think that I would be demanding it and speaking every single night in, in as you afford if I thought that I wouldn't win it? I know, I know what the people really, really think. Don't believe the news media, they're, they're, they're, you know, you're, you're in bad company here. The truth is, the majority of Jews inside is, you are swarding Jews, Jews from Jews from Arab countries. They did not learn about Arabs at some seminar by the Benebrif or your local temple here. They live with Arabs and they fled 800,000 Jews fled the Arab countries. Now, why do they flee? Ask them why and you'll see why they, why they don't want to live under our, our, our Arabs again. I'm betting my whole political future that I can win a referendum. Okay.

And assuming that we don't have the referendum, you are predicting civil war, possible civil war. Are you calling for civil war? Of course not. God forbid. That's the, that, that is the worst thing that could possibly happen. I'm not calling for it. I'm an observer of a scene and I see the scene. I see young Jews for the first time wanting to lead to, leave the country because they don't know are they fish or foul? Are we occupiers? Is it really ours? We've got to. If it's really yours, then you get up and you say it is ours. And Herbron is, is, as much Jewish as, is Haifa. And if, if it isn't, then you certainly raised, raised doubts in the minds of, of young Jews, should we be here? And one last question, the young Arabs in the West Bank who are protesting. You think the government has been too soft on them. What would you do? If I had been the prime minister at the start of the, the grandfather, not one Arab would have been killed, not one Arab would have been hurt, of course they wouldn't have been

there. What is more moral, to keep them there and break their bones and shoot them every single night? Or to, or to the crunch to them out of the country? And my final point is, these are the children of parents who massacre Jews before they was a Jewish state. When Hebron 67 Jews died in one day in 1929, now what was bogging the Arabs in 1929? Surely not the occupied lands of 1967? And in the programs of 1936 through 38, 500 and 10 Jews died. What did they want then? And in 1947 when the UN offered a partition plan, Jewish state and Arabs said no because they wanted it all. They gambled. I come from Brooklyn and in the streets of Brooklyn, we learn one thing, if you start and you lose, you lose, it isn't a game. We started a war, we lost the world, let's go back to go, no, no.

You started a war, you killed our people, you lost, you lose, don't start again. Thank you sir. Some have escaped the fighting by coming to Dallas, only to face a different battle, one against deportation. They find help at local refugee centers.

Refugees rely on volunteers like Parker Wilson, he's a contradiction, a former corporate lawyer turned refugee advocate. With volunteer translators, Wilson helps Central American refugees apply for political asylum. While the judge will want to know from her why she is afraid to go back. Some of us feel that our government with its policies is at least partly responsible for their situation in their own country, the continuation of the war and the violence there and the persecution that causes them to have to leave their homes. Wilson is a quiet man who hates talking about himself, but his story explains the struggle facing Central American refugees.

It says she has frequently resisted, collaborating with the guerrillas. Salvadoran refugee Maria Amaya fled her country wanting nothing to do with El Salvador's U.S.-backed military or the leftist guerrillas on the other side. They brought more boxes over and they told her they were, they had orange juice in them and I didn't believe it so she opened the boxes and found more arms. When they had the boxes there did she report that to the authorities. You're not good at it yet. No, so it's scary. Wilson was a corporate lawyer for the Dallas office of the Sears Robuck Department Store Chain. He retired eight years ago when he was 60. Others his age might relax, play golf or travel, not Wilson. He worked 60 hours a week for a Central American Refugee Assistance Program called Proyecto Adelante, or Project Forward in English. His office is a converted storage closet so cluttered, Wilson doesn't clean it, but someone

else tried. Of course, I was in here this morning trying to dust in my place, I saw, but then I got back from court. How she was doing that, I don't know. This is a shoestring operation that relies on donations and personal commitment. We do keep on in the hope that surely something, one of these days, will change in the situation either here with the way our government deals with the refugees or in their own country which would make it possible for many of them to return, which is where most of them would rather be, anyway. Vicki Stifter is the project's only paid lawyer. As its director of legal services, she's Wilson's boss. He considers himself a volunteer, we consider him the backbone of the project. I mean, he is for me. He's been here since the beginning and he really is.

He's the project. Could I speak with Connie Scott, please? What time do you expect her? Wilson helped establish the project eight years ago when refugees asked a network of church activists for help. Linda Hayak belongs to the network and remembers how Wilson began practicing immigration law. A guy called us who was in landscaping and said, look, I've got one of my best workers got picked up and I heard you all are dealing with El Salvador. Could you help me? So then we called Parker up and at the time he said, I don't know anything about immigration law. On down this way. Thank you very much. A lot of people would have thought that that was an insurmountable obstacle at a retirement age to decide to take on a whole new aspect of law and he did it. And I think he's a really good immigration lawyer now. As good as he is, Wilson wins few cases. It's both frustrating and maddening. There are those of us who strongly believe that the immigration laws, while ostensibly it's applied on a case by case and even across the board basis, and actually they're applied

according to the U.S. foreign policy and also with domestic political considerations entering into it. Immigration laws are not kind to people fleeing countries with U.S.-backed governments like El Salvador. Immigration courts usually rule Salvadorans are here to look for work, not to escape political persecution. Only three of every 100 Salvadorans who apply for political asylum get it. The rest are deported. There are very few people who stay in this business for more than two years. I mean, doing the real front line work because you never win. So that I think what drives them part of it is his perspective on the way the world should be a dogged stubborn belief that things should be fair and just. That trait runs in the Wilson household. Wilson's wife, Jean, is a respected civil rights activist in her own right.

We're getting ready to take a channel 13 program on stories from El Salvador you might want to watch. The Wilson's have been married 48 years and have three daughters. They could have settled for a quiet affluent life away from controversy. But they didn't. They opted, I think, early on to become involved in things that they thought made a difference. Parker was involved in the civil rights movement in this country way back here in Dallas, in the same sort of quiet stubborn, effective way. He probably won on the front page, but he was there. Someone who made the front page 19 years ago was the Reverend Peter Johnson. He opened the Dallas chapter of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, headed by Dr. Martin Luther King. In 1971, Reverend Johnson protested Dallas's neglect of the hungry. The hunger campaign evolved into a hunger fast on the step to city hall and Parker and Jean were constant visitors to the steps and to have proud with us and to witness with

us on the step to city hall during those years. It wasn't that many angles during those years that would, I mean, even talk to us and let along be identified with us physically. So they were very special to us during those early years. The Wilson's haven't been afraid to stand up for their beliefs, and that sometimes surprises their liberal friends. The Wilson's once voted for Arch conservative Republican, Barry Goldwater. He talked straight and said what he meant. I thought he was. He was an honest man. But that did create some stirs sometimes in various meetings. I had a guy sitting next to me one time at a breakfast that literally recoiled when someone kidding me said, you know, something about, well, you voted for Goldwater and he was sitting next to me and drew back like he might be contaminated. These days Wilson sides with the Democratic Party.

Still, some civil rights peers don't trust him at first glance. Some of the young firebrands with their torn jeans and longer hair had a hard time adjusting to me. I thought it was good for them to realize that they were guilty of putting people in boxes too. They just didn't look to part. Parker, Marlin, Meacon, Humble, and Easygoing, soft spoken, would show up for all of our marches, our tickets with his pipe. The Everbrison Pipe. I'm devoted to my pipe, I'm sorry to say. The pipe's part of who he is and we see that pipe accompany him in very stressful situations and probably help get him through the stress. We're always up against deadline.

Deadlines for filing immigration documents and pressure to provide food, jobs, and information to the refugees on complex immigration laws. He's determined to do everything he can as an individual from this country, who's benefiting from being here. He's willing to do everything he can to extend that to the newcomers, to the immigrants. Wilson has protested against U.S. intervention in Central America, marching, and supporting friends who staged a sit-in at the federal courthouse. They were arrested, later Wilson bailed them out. Well, I saw all of those actions were quite appropriate at appropriate times and needful. For his efforts to bring about racial and social justice, Wilson received the Dallas Peace Center's 1989 Peace Maker Award. He has a sense of just hanging in there over the long haul that's very much needed in causes like this.

He's the one thread that kind of has wound its way through all or woven its way through the last seven or eight years. There always seem to be issues, my call, justice issues that keep coming up of all kinds, and one just has to be involved in them. Do I understand that you don't plan to retrieve anything from these ships? No, not at all.

You can't retrieve anything until you know exactly its condition. The archaeological procedure mandates and mandates logically that you don't touch anything until you know exactly what it is. And these ships, although previously looked at, were certainly not properly mapped in an archaeological manner. Here you can see the magnificent figurehead of Diana. The Hamilton was taken as a merchant vessel and renamed the Hamilton, but originally built as a merchant schooner, some 74 feet long, and about 45 tons. I can see the text of the wood, I can see how the ship was constructed, the joints and the nails, they're all in that imagery. You were very adamant about the Titanic that it should not be disturbed, it should stay intact. What's different about these two ships that make them possibly able to be retrieved? The big difference with the Titanic is when we were diving on it, we had detailed plans of how it was built. And we know exactly how the Titanic was built. All of the historical records of its construction were preserved, and I think the point was with the Titanic, it was a fairly recent site, and it was not deemed.

We went to the Smithsonian, we went to the Royal Museum in England, and we asked them, do you want things from the Titanic? And they said, no, we went to the survivors, do you want things from the Titanic? They said, no, I said, well that sort of tells us that it shouldn't be done. So we didn't. We're in the case of the Hamilton, we don't have the detailed information about it. It's 175 years old, not 75 years old. The historical record gets fuzzier and fuzzier as you go back into time. And so clearly, these ships are truly archaeological sites, as opposed to the Titanic, which was not nor is the Bismarck. When it becomes an archaeological site, a whole other set of rules kick into place. And as you said, you will know a lot more about this when you've done with this mission, but I would like Dr. Rool to comment on what she started to minute ago, the humanity, we sometimes get caught up in the ship, what about the 53 people died, what do you expect to learn there? Well, this is it.

A ship is a moment in time, encapsulated for us to recover the information and understand it. And in the case of the Hamilton and Scourge, you have a community there, 53 men lost their lives, and on board those ships will be their personal possessions, their armament and their equipment, and then there are the ships themselves. So we will produce a data on which the best assessment can be made, how best to preserve that information for the future. Would it be best to lift them and bring them ashore to be conserved and displayed? Most of these animals in local zoos will never know the experiences of their relatives

in the wild. They will never have to roam in search of food. They will never be chased by hyenas or lions, and they will never face a high-powered gun. The hunter is the one who is paying millions of dollars to support all the wildlife in the United States. You've got to remember that hunting is one of the oldest occupations in the world. It's just not necessary to kill an animal as far as I can see. Hi, darling. How are you? Harry Tennyson is one of Fort Worth's leading citizens. He's perhaps the zoo's biggest supporter. He's the founder of several worldwide conservation efforts and a guy who loves kids. Here he visits with a group of second graders from his adopted school, JP Stevens Elementary. What a pleasure to see you again.

The first time I came out to see you, I had no idea that you would be starting something today, that you would live with the rest of your lives. It's called Conservation 2000. The reason we call it Conservation 2000 is because ten years from now, you'll be graduated from high school. In that time between now and then you're going to learn about conservation, you're going to learn why we have a zoo, you're going to learn how to take care of the land. Oh, by the way, Tennyson is also famous for being a big game hunter. I look around this wall and I see all these heads of animals that you've killed. Is that a contradiction? Not a contradiction at all because the big game hunter is the one that puts up all the money for conservation. The members of my organization, game conservation and the national are also all members of the Zoological Associations all over the world. We, for instance, will just take Fort Worth. Where did the money come from to rebuild the zoo?

It came from people who hunt, who have a love of the animals. Tennyson and his associates most often put their money and their efforts where their mouths are. Last year he saw a 20-year-old dream finally come true. Ten Black Rhinoceros arrived at Dallas Fort Worth International Airport for distribution to zoos and wildlife parks throughout the United States. Since 1967, Tennyson has been trying to help this animal on the verge of extinction in its native Africa. Oh, look at him acting so bad, not in here, man. One of the Black Rhinos at the Fort Worth Zoo has already given birth. Tennyson wanted to name the young male Lucky, but zoo officials did something they rarely do to Harry Tennyson. They said no. They named the baby Harry. I love the rhino. I loved it. I guess, because he reminded me of what I feel about when I'm out in the open like that. It's a solitary animal. It's lonely.

It's such a territory and it defends it. How do you convince a child, I mean, a particular child who grown up watching Bambi? How do you convince a child that what you do in Africa is all right? I don't try to convince them. Only answer their questions and show them what we have done. If they are anti-hunting, that's fine. I don't try to change their mind. But by the exposure to the out of doors, they get a view of what we are as custodians. They get a picture of what they're supposed to do. And that's why I've started conservation 2000 in the school system. Hi, Harry. Hi. Hi. Last week, Tennyson attended a special showing of a new movie by George Butler, the man who produced the popular Pumping Iron and Pumping Iron 2. His latest film, In The Blood, is certain to fuel the debate over game hunting in this country and abroad. In the film, Butler takes his son on an African safari, like Theodore Roosevelt had taken his son.

With the help of footage from the Smithsonian, his film has a definite point of view. I thought it was almost silly to make a film about hunting this late in the 20th century. Then I met Robin Hurt, who's the store of the film. And he's from East Africa. He's lived their all his life. And he convinced me that without hunting in Africa, and indeed that follows without hunting in this country, the bottom would fall out of the conservation movement. And that hunting is essential to conservation. Go on, hit him. Hit him. Hit him. You're entitled to a film In The Blood, taken from a line from one of the characters. It says, this hunting is in the blood. It's in everyone's blood. We can deny it, but it is there. But in a way, I mean, if you look at, as I said a minute ago, the innocent animal in that high part of Wipel, it's in cold blood. Well, the truth matter is, I said, hunters, if they are good hunters, only hunt old bull animals, trophy-sized animals.

And those animals are going to be eaten alive by a high-ness or lions. Following the premier showing of Butler's film in Fort Worth, there was a discussion of hunting. Most were fans of the sport, but one moment wasn't. The film was like, about this little boy, who, I mean, was obviously brainwashing and thinking, hunting is wonderful and mainly, and it's the only way to get to know the wilderness and it's not. Why? Are you against hunting? Because. I mean, half the animals they killed in this movie suffered. I mean, they ran, y'all said, however many yards suffering, for y'all's trophies and for y'all's. The same animal I've been turned up behind us, or a lion, would run twice as far and take about two or three days to die. Shooting an animal is the most, is the best death that that animal will ever have. Webster says that a hunter is a person in search of something. Now you, or as much of a hunter as I am, because you are in search of an answer.

Now have you ever killed anything in your life? Do you eat chicken? Are you pure vegetarian? Then you don't need motors in your mouth, and do you? That's why our game was those kind of teeth was to chew meat with. Why didn't you give us claws and things like the lions there? He did, but we outgrow them. Well, don't you think our minds are background that too, don't you think we've gotten a little smarter? Maybe somebody's mind. The hunter is the one who is paying the millions of dollars to support all the wildlife in the United States. We have more game now than we had in 1900. If it weren't for the licenses and the putting of value on wildlife, we wouldn't have that game. Is that just a PR line now that you guys have come up with to make it easier for the rest of us to accept? No, it's not a PR line at all, it's about to be the truth. And we now are ready to face the people who accused us of just doing this to get our

kicks out of it. It isn't enjoyable thing just to hunt. The least thing I remember about these animals on the wall is the actual shot. I don't think it's necessary. And to relate the word kill with fun, I can't do it. Jim Dunlap is director of the Living Material Center for the Plano Independent School District. He too spends a lot of time with children and animals. OK, kids, why don't y'all come right around here? Dunlap, however, is totally against hunting and he has his reasons right here in this learning center. OK, now we're talking about hunters and the hunted. These animals that you see in front of you are here as a result of being hunted for no particular reason. Now for example, the red tail hawk, all birds of prey, all the raptors are protected. You're not supposed to shoot them for any reason. And this is just one of the birds that I get very, very frequently that has been injured

or wounded by a hunter, probably when they're out hunting something else. This red tail hawk only has one wing and I've had him for 13 years and we put pins in his mango wing twice. He pulled them out both times. Consequently, he's non-releasable. I use him for educational purposes. This is a turkey vulture and when he came in, he was half dead. He was full of buckshot and the veterinarians removed all the buckshot except for three lead pellets that are still lies in his head and we can't get those removed or it would kill him. A young fox raised in someone's home, a lion raised at the pet in someone's garage. This is a sad part. See, while animals, this is degrading for them, they shouldn't be doing things like this. They ought to be over there in the corner snarling and trying to get at me. Dunlap doesn't buy any of the hunter's arguments, including the one that says hunters help control animal population in some areas.

If the populations are left alone, they are self-regulating. That's the way nature works. Some will die, of course, but eventually the stronger will adapt to whatever area they happen to have left for them. It's a great loss that we don't have a hunt in Yellowstone Park. They had to kill 7,000 elk in there a few years ago, had too many elk. It wouldn't be necessary to spend all this money trying to manage game and go through all the bureaucracy of setting up permits and paperwork and enforcing laws. All of that, if you get back and look at it, if they left them alone in the first place and they regulated themselves, all it would be necessary to do is leave them and their habitat alone. Their motive is a sentimentality and a misunderstanding of the importance of hunting to conservation. These are people who happily wear leather shoes, leather belts, who happily eat hamburgers at McDonald's and everywhere else, and really don't examine their own motives here. I do.

Checking my shoes. They look leather to me. And he starts whining. Although Dunlap utilizes mauled and sick animals here, the only animal he ever shot was a cotton tail rabbit when he was a boy. I walked over, looked at it, picked it up, looked over my shoulder as many times as I could, took it out and buried it immediately, and I haven't shot it anything since. And again, through the shoulder. Through the shoulder. Good shot. Well done. Let this here come. Today you are a part of nature. But now you know what it's like when you're taking out of those lifehits. It's also a sad occasion. I mean, people, the people are here now, they're speaking like this is a soap opera. This is not a soap opera.

This is reality. You can't just say, well, okay, then let's just be together, let's live in peace and harmony. We've been saying that for hundreds of years, and we still, right now, I mean, it's prevalent, and it's not going to leave. You saying keep trying, I mean, the endurance is not, I mean, it's not that long, it's not that drawn out. So what you're telling me is that I can go home tonight and go to bed and say, listen, it's never going to change. My child will have to deal with the same thing that I had to deal with. His child will have to deal with the same thing that he had to deal with. All I'm saying is that I feel, in my heart, that once we leave the studio, I don't feel the any person that saying the things that they're saying now will go out and say to their friends tomorrow, listen to this, listen to what I've learned, listen to what I've learned about the black people, about the white people. Do you do it every day? I think you're right. Did you do it today? I think, I think that's, if you're not even giving yourself and you're not even giving us a chance, you asked us before if we sounded like our parents, I mean, one of the reasons why I like hanging out with kids better than my parents' friends is that, you know, they have a lot of other problems, they have to raise us, they have to pay taxes or whatever.

I think one of the great things we can still do, hopefully, is that we can still laugh and we can still be friends and we can still play. We still have time for that. We still don't have to accept all the other responsibilities they're going to take away from our childhood. We still have time to get to know each other. And I think that, I think that if you automatically assume that we're ignorant and you automatically assume that nobody can change, then you're not even letting anyone else into your life and you're not helping anybody else out. That's not an assumption. I'm asking her to be realistic, rather than, I mean, living in a fantasy room. Well, you have to be optimistic too. Jermaine, when you said that, you should have asked yourself the same question, did you think about a white person today? And I'm not saying this as an, I don't want to create any conflict, but the thing is, if you were to sit beside me, could you talk to me easily? Or would you? Sure. Sure. Sure. You could, right? And if I sat beside you, I could easily speak to you, correct? That's my whole, yes, as you could. Exactly, so what I'm trying to point out is there is no racial tension between you then, correct?

No. Second. Go ahead. Well, let me interrupt, because I think you're suggesting that, even though he may be able to sit next to you and you may have a discussion, he has a closed mind and you're not going to change it. Well, I just, wait, is that what you meant? You've got your mind a little bit there, I'm not putting you down, I just believe you've got your mind in a scope where you're not allowing the other person a chance, because there has been a lot of prejudice towards you and there has been against me, but I can't close my mind down against you and sit beside you and say, hey, you know, how's it going? And then just think in my mind, Cal, you know, like that, and I think you can't close your mind up and you're not allowing him. Then I mean anything because I sit down with you and converse with you, that does not mean that you like me or I like you, that's the problem. I hear people saying, well, I have white friends, I have black friends, so what, what does that mean? You have to prove yourself, the good will prevail over the bad, let the bad be brought up and let it be noticed. Why do I have to bring myself to you, though? You don't have to bring yourself to me. You have to bring yourself to me. I'm not asking you to prove yourself to me. Okay, do you want me? I just like to go back to the reason why this whole argument was based on, and it's frustration and it's indicative of what's going on in the city right now. When we tell you what we're feeling, what are experiences and ask you, hey, let's sit

together, sit down and talk about it and do what is best. And prime example is this Roy Williams situation in Marvin Kinshaw. When they came to the city of Dallas and told them what the situation was and that they needed to rectify minority representation, what happened? No one listened to them. So now that we have legislation and the judge will come in and decide, that's the whole problem. When we tell you, we get frustrated and why should we have to come back and do it again and again and again. And that's why we feel like it's futile. Why? Why talk about it? You know what? Go ahead up here. Oh, Israel, why don't you go ahead? That's the microphone. Well, it seems to be, I'm going to get back to a point that I said earlier about how we say, well, we want to sit down and talk to each other and it's all a dream of soap opera. Well, by the same token, it can be an all-out assault. And what we're doing is seem to be doing everything wants to build their own power base for their group. And they're going to bring it up to a point where they can say, okay, now we're the leaders, now we can do to you what you did to us. And see, that's why the same token is wrong.

What it makes you bad, if I go around and say, white power, white power, would that anchor you? I know that anchor you, right? I was going around preaching white power. They do it. They do it. And you go around preaching. Can I say my part? Okay. Let me say my part. I'll let you say yours. Okay. I'll go around and say my white people. Wait, wait, just a minute. You said what up here? That's a stupid white people. Okay. Do that. Wait, wait. Let's pause. Let's pause because you know what? When I was in the fifth grade, I opened a book that a teacher gave me and it was Langston Hughes who was a band. And he had written something back in 1926 and basically what he said was, I too sing America. I am the darker brother and they sent me to eat in the kitchen when company comes. When I laugh and eat well and grow strong tomorrow, I will sit at the table when company comes and no one will dare say to me, eat in the kitchen then. Besides, they will see how beautiful I am and be ashamed. I too am America. Langston said it in 1926. I read it in 1956 and here we are in 1990 and you're suggesting to me that there are

only crumbs at America's table for certain people still? No, no. Because we have closed minds. I'm not going to sit down at your dinner table. And call myself a diner when I have nothing on my plate and you have a full plate. I'm not going to call myself a diner at your table when you're eating sirloin and I have nothing. I will not call myself a diner. What he said about Langston Hughes, that was beautiful. That was nice. All I'm saying is that today in the 90s, regardless of what happened back then, now I'm not going to sit at your table and call myself a diner when I have nothing on my plate. Nothing whatsoever. Would you steal the food office plate or would you ask for it? You got to steal your tape. I wonder if I told you before that, and you didn't, didn't I?

Where did you go? There's a new force in the world that has the power to immobilize even the most hyperactive child for hours. I like all the different techniques you can do. There's just a lot of things that you can do with it instead of just having one purpose. The graphics are really neat. It takes your minds off things like if you know I can trouble or something, it just takes my mind off of my punishment or felt like I made a bad grade on a test or something. It just takes my mind off of it. It's called Nintendo. Nintendo is a video game system, and most kids would rather play it than eat. The opening round of the Nintendo World Championship Tour held in Dallas this spring attracted 14,000 disciples. And Dallas isn't the only city to have fallen under Nintendo's hypnotic spell. The company says that it has penetrated 29% of American homes, and that last year alone Americans spent $3.4 billion on its products.

Many of the dozens of Nintendo games on the market are based on sports and fantasy. But in some of the most popular games, realistic video characters in realistic settings use knives, chains, and lead pipes on each other in a fight to the death. Nintendo acknowledges that in the early 1980s, former Surgeon General C. Everett Cooke warned that such games might be hazardous to the health or morals of children who play them. But Jay Coleman, executive producer of the Nintendo World Championships, claims that Nintendo games have helped make some families healthier. I actually think that the bonding between parents and child is something that Nintendo has really been a catalyst for. It's really an interesting, particularly today, when you have a lot of divorced families, and a dad gets his kids on a Saturday. This is something that a dad can really interact with his daughter and his son, and it's the first time that I think the kids can really beat their dad or their mom.

Psychologists disagree on whether violent video games negatively affect children's behavior. Dr. Duane Bermister, associate professor of human development at the University of Texas and Dallas thinks they might. If you have a child who's disposed towards being somewhat hostile and aggressive with other kids, let's say, or with brothers and sisters, for that kind of child, to show them new ways to essentially aggressive against other kids, that could have been negative consequences. People, particularly in this country, and particularly in the last 50 years, have a tendency to overprotect children on that sort of thing. Dr. William Tedford is a psychology professor at Southern Methodist University. I don't think that playing that sort of game is the kind of thing that determines whether a child is going to be aggressive or violent in the real world, any more so than reading the Tom Swift books or any other typical children's activity.

I have a five-year-old. He plays a game like Double Dragon or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, where they have weapons. And so this is the other day I watch my five-year-old. As soon as he's done playing that, he went out and picked up a broomstick and started after his two-year-old brother. There is a famous book of sort of moral fairy stories that's very popular in Germany, the Stoodle Piper book. And it has stories in it, such as one where the mother tells a little boy not to play with scissors because if he does, the big troll will come and cut his thumbs off. Mother then goes to the store, the little boy plays with the scissors. Sure enough, a big troll comes and cuts his thumbs off, and there's a picture of him standing there with blood spurting out of the bloody stumps. And children, three to five or six years old, are just crazy about these stories. They eat them up, and I do not believe that this leads them to want to run around and

cut each other's thumbs off with scissors. But Dr. Bermister says there is a distinct difference between video games and other forms of entertainment. I think the main difference is this little thing, and that the video game is participatory. The child gets to play with the game, interact with the game, and instead of sort of vicariously being involved in the action that happens on television, they're a direct participant in the sense that through awards and so forth that happen in the video game are happening to them personally, just not to the characters on television. Although Dr. Tedford admits that some children might be disturbed by violent video games, he doesn't think that sales should be restricted. I think that it is possible that if you have a child who already has some sort of severe mental or emotional problem that this type of game could trigger off a bad episode, but we can't structure society around the weaknesses of the 1% of the population that may be abnormal

and may react badly. We don't do that in other areas. I see no reason why we should do it in this one. If Nintendo had to wait until psychological research conclusively proved what effect their games were going to have on children, we'd be well into the 22nd century before they could put anything on the market at all. But Dr. Bermister thinks that the industry should do more to inform and protect consumers. I think Nintendo and TV for that television for that matter ought to feel more responsible for portraying the both the positive and the negative aspects of video games. It's a hard to do because it's a commercial enterprise and so they have a vested interest to tell us one thing rather than another. Nintendo officials said that they were too busy during the world championships to talk to us on camera, but they did say that psychologists are not currently involved in the company's

pre-release screening process. In the meantime, the company suggested parents concerned about violent video games monitor the situation on their own. Most of the world's great concert halls were built in the 19th century. Few built-sens have achieved the harmony between architecture and music that exists in the old halls. The latest effort to strike this balance between form and function is the Myers-Synpony Center, which opened in Dallas September 1989. The musical score is like a blueprint.

Until it exists in time, music is nothing, music doesn't exist, obviously, until it's played, but it's only a reference point, few lines and dots in a piece of paper. Basically, a concert room contains a sound energy. The musicians and stage produce the music in the form of an insect sound energy, and the concert room contains it, conserves it, and transmits it to the audience. Basically, we look to the old opera houses and the old concert halls built from, say, before 1910, and then we apply as many of those lessons to contemporary building as we can manage. The various ways that we use computers and various kinds of software is, as a design tool, computers are very useful in speeding up the process of looking at details of the

design. The acoustics comes out of the basic design, the basic dimensions and shape. One of the most important things that we strive for in that basic design is the strength, the power of the sound, the power of the music. The wide scope of music played in concert rooms has always been immense, a tremendous range. The designer has to shoot for the best possible for all of those things.

The work of the conductor, the work of the musician, in general, is a combination of talent, imagination, background, tradition, and a lot of all the things that I will just call me de graft. See you at the station.

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