NewsNight Minnesota; 4180; NewsNight Minnesota Episode from 07/10/1997; SD-Base

NEWSNIGHT Minnesota is a production of cake with the stations of Minnesota Public Television. Tonight on NEWSNIGHT the verdict has come in the trial we'll have the latest including a defense attorney how to make a living wage by the grace of big business or the requirements of Big Brother. And finally of falling crime rate. So instead of asking who to blame a debate on whom to throw to it's NEWSNIGHT for Thursday July 10th. Good evening welcome to NEWSNIGHT the debate on living wages and a discussion on Law and Order coming up shortly but first Mike Mulcahey with news headlines from around the state including the DIC verdict. Thanks can after all the hype and hoopla one family member found guilty of one count of attempting to receive stolen goods. That was the verdict late this afternoon in the trial of the DIC family father Gerald dict was found not guilty of two charges. And daughter Stacy's Aron was found not guilty of the two charges against her. The counts against the son James were dropped earlier this week only the mother Judy Dick was found guilty

on one count of aiding and abetting the receipt of stolen property. She was found not guilty of a similar conspiracy charge. I am pleased with the verdict. The jury obviously recognizes we believe and that is that. No activity occurred they very thoughtfully decided who should be responsible for that activity and I think that justice was served. Well I was delighted I you know I got to know the family real well. The last six months and it's a very fine family nice family and I'm very happy for them and I'm sure Judy's one minor charge that conviction will be overturned on appeal based on the police misconduct and prosecutorial think that the messages that the jury getting out while the messages they didn't prove their case and the police in this case the ends justify the means that's was that was their model and I you know I don't understand what their thinking process was but it certainly wasn't to get justice. It is the craziest rally I have been in my life. Well you know because every day there was new evidence that pops up that they were covering up a it was

it was. Criminal lawyers dream after a while what can I tell you I know what you mean by that. I mean tapes that they cover up. As I said in the beginning we we alleged cover ups and we allege hiding evidence frequently and we think it's there with the we don't think it's rare that these kinds of things happen but it's very rare to catch him. Doug Thompson was the defense attorney for dentist Gerald Dick. Joe Freebird was the lawyer for daughter Stacy ziran and Jeffrey Berg. First of all let's talk about the Roseville Police Department a little bit. Was this ineptitude on their part or were they being devious in this case. First of all I think you have to be specific. It's not the Roseville Police Department that we know of at this time it's to Roseville Police officers that were not being inept and were not being negligent they were just plain being dishonest and they got caught. Doug Thompson What were the critical things they did wrong I mean what was it the not getting a search warrant or what happened.

Well the entire program they showed up was ill conceived. They had decided somehow to frame the dict family they would talk to the shoplifter and I asked him if he would shut up the DIC family and within without any supervision without talking to any body in higher places they recruit the inexperienced. Security agent from Dayton may send her into the DIC home without any experience without any monitoring and so forth and she has an agenda and the agenda is to try to get the DIC family member to say something incriminating. Whether or not our suspicion about the she did have a tape that was later destroyed but were guarded so she comes in and testified without any cooperation and attribute certain criminal acts and statements to members of the dict family and it was a classic frame up. And I think the jury recognized that and it was ill conceived

and also botched in its execution. And there was even some more controversy controversy about that tape recording today one of the witnesses came back and said that it was a different tape recorder than she had said in court earlier Joe Freberg. Has that ever happened before where they bring the jury back in after they started deliberating to look at the evidence. No we look for some president couldn't find it. But all parties determine that it was the reasonable and the proper thing to do. We had produced scientific testimony yesterday that indicated and we told the jury proved that the recorder that they came up with that they produced was not the recorder that was made to make this tape. What happened was that last night a revelation came to this person who works for Dayton's that yes she remembered this was not the right recorder despite having sworn under oath that it was strange but true. I think in a piece of tape we saw earlier from Earl Grey.

He said that the case of against Mrs. Dick might be appealed and he thought that she would win on appeal do you. Do you think she'd have a good chance on appeal I wholeheartedly agree and in fact it may be that even on some post trial motions in front of the trial judge Judge Eurostar that he might feel inclined to either dismiss the charges against her or to grant her a new trial. You could well end up in the appellate court but I think that there are there's a factor you're never seen a case that probably has more error and it is far as prejudice against a particular defendant. So I think there are usually you're not too optimistic about appeals but I don't think any lawyer knows her record in this case would say that. Her conviction would stand up under any view of the evidence. Well if it's what you guys say is right and this was deliberate misconduct by the police I mean what chance does a defendant have especially somebody who can afford a couple of high powered lawyers like you. Does this happen often I mean well probably more often than we'd like to think

and I suppose it's a rich man's justice I mean it happens to be the to be able to afford the investigative aspect and so forth and we would like to think that the presumption of innocence and the burden of proof would carry the day for any defendant. But I think the truth is that you know ordinarily an indigent defendant does not have the resources to try to match the investigation force of the government. So much media attention paid to this case. What did that contribute to the whole thing or take away from the whole thing you know I think that it it was a media event. I think the mayor the county attorney says and I just got caught up in the narcotic of media exposure and did things that no good prosecutor would ever do this case should have been settled in its entirety the first day in a very very strange prosecutorial decision was made by the Ramsey County attorney which I think is it was just

nothing but inept and nothing but playing to the media. Well thanks again congratulations. We appreciate your coming by tonight. Well if you feel like you know about every six months you see another story on the rising cost of a college education there's proof now it's not your imagination. A study by Minnesota planning shows tuitions and fees for the University of Minnesota went up by almost one hundred fifteen percent since 1982 at least in the College of Liberal Arts tuitions at state universities is up by more than 100 10 percent in 15 years and it's hardly better at private institutions because there is a have more than doubled too. The study did not examine why but it did note that state contributions to colleges and universities have also been increasing. Barbara Carlson says she's going to run for mayor of Minneapolis. The former radio talk show host in Minneapolis City Council member will file for office next Tuesday. Carlson says she doesn't have a burning desire to be mayor but she is devoted to the city and doesn't think current Mayor Sharon Sayles Belton has provided strong leadership. The

fight over the Condor Raider metal shredder has been dormant for some time now but American iron and supply company is bringing it back to life. The company wants to build a large metal shredder on the Mississippi River just north of downtown. At first the city approves the project then backpedaled American iron sued charging that city officials that conspired to scuttle the project. The lawsuit was inactive for the past few years but now American iron is named new defendants. The Minneapolis Parks Board and its commissioner Patricia Hill mire the new complaint also alleges anti-Semitism by the city and the park board. American iron is owned by Freddie and Johnnie Isaacs who are Jewish. Hill mayor and other city officials vehemently deny the charge. The Iron Range Resources and rehabilitation board is about two million dollars short of its two year thirty six thirty six million dollar projected budget. That could mean layoffs and salary freezes the governmental board relies on tax money from taconite mining companies for the money it spends. The I Triple R B is charged with finding and maintaining jobs and diversified industry for the Iron Range.

And Happy 100 birthday to the Two Harbors band the Duluth Massai and Northern Railroad started the band back in 1897 to keep up work on worker morale and to give employees something to do in the den isolated countryside. Even during the wars of the world wars the band played on tonight as it has for a century now. The civic group will put on a free open air concert for all comers and can just Ninety seven years to go before you celebrate your 100th anniversary and I think they're already planning their party. I think that's NEWSNIGHT utopias that show. Thanks a bike. This coming Monday Duluth city council will consider forcing contractors to pay a so-called living wage it means a salary of seven twenty five an hour without health benefits. 650 with it's an attempt to force employers to pay workers enough to support a family a worthy goal in these times of welfare reform but would it work. Eric Peterson thinks so he is with the Duluth Coalition for a living wage. Bob Heimbach does not agree.

He is president of the Duluth Chamber of Commerce. Eric Peterson I want to start with you I think a lot of people are somewhat familiar with the concept of living wage that was the big ballot question in St. Paul a while back but wanted to give us the nuts and bolts of the bill of this measure. The Korea issue is whether or not taxpayer dollars will be spent to subsidize and create some poverty level wages that's the same issue that was behind the St. Paul resolution the same issue behind the Minneapolis resolution businesses which get government aid to begin with. What the Duluth the ordinance is is somewhat different from St. Paul's it's more similar more what happened in Minneapolis and that is that the government has a role in the marketplace. And the question then is how does government exercise that role in that power in the marketplace. It's an investor by providing subsidized subsidies assistance to businesses. It's a purchaser huge purchaser of services and also an employer. And what the ordinance in Duluth would cover is it would say businesses that receive assistance need to pay their employees at

least a living wage of seven and a quarter an hour. Contractors who provide certain services to the city need to pay their employees who do go to services. A living wage and also the city has one of the largest employers of low wage workers in the area has to pay its only low wage workers a living wage. OK Bob Heimbach if the taxpayers are helping out of business with either a loan or a grant or something like that what's wrong with the taxpayer is in essence saying hey you got to pay a living wage. We would agree in we have done so. Frankly since early in the process we think it is appropriate to have a mechanism in place that we can put our efforts all of our efforts towards recruiting businesses that pay those kinds of wages. We believe frankly the mechanism has not worked so well in the past. We do need to fine tune it. We think there are alternatives other than an ordinance that will accomplish that and we think some of those mechanisms are already in place.

We clearly think that they have to be toughened up. We have to have accountability. We have to be able to prove to the voters to the constituency that we are in fact doing the following our mission in recruiting the types of jobs that are appropriate for our community. Are you uncomfortable though with the government's hand coming down on the free marketplace. Yes I am. I think frankly the old fashioned system of education training and experience and people growing into jobs that pay highly high wages and businesses creating those kinds of jobs sometimes with incentives sometimes not. But I'm very uncomfortable with what is essentially we believe a minimum wage law for our town. Let's get an idea of the Duluth labor market right now I mean this is as good as it gets for the economy statewide. I mean how many people are not getting a living wage up in Duluth. Are there any good numbers on percentage. Those statistics just because of the way they do Labor Statistics are somewhat difficult.

There's different from the Twin Cities. It does have a much lower wage rate than average ball state wide in compared to metropolitan area down here. I just want to ask though is this a symbolic fight over we ought to or how many people's lives with this really affect how many businesses would it affect. I would agree with Eric's assessment that clearly our market is different in the Twin Cities which is exactly why we have trouble with the ordinance. We don't want in Duluth Minnesota where we have to work very hard in economic development in one of the roles of the chamber working with our partners. To convince companies that they should come perhaps north from the Twin Cities sometimes or at the very least they're looking at the Twin City market as options. You're afraid they're going to scare him away. Exactly exactly. And our response to that is that's not been the experience in other cities around the state. We don't buy the argument that it's an island. This is an issue of accountability of tax dollars. We don't believe that it is fair to taxpayers to subsidize a business to give money to a

business to create jobs only to have to turn around and subsidize that business as employer employees because they're living in poverty. How often is that happening now does anybody know how many businesses are you know if there has been there have been many projects up in Duluth in which state or city money has been given three Canal Park hotels received about one point two million dollars in assistance. There's a whole whole string its tax increment financing which is different than free money. So when you have to remember that you have a tax increment financing money is money that the community did you didn't have in the first place without the project the money wouldn't have been there. We got to it is assistance I would agree. We got about a minute to go I know there's been a lot of movement on trying to come up with a compromise issue making the business pay two thirds of its employees the living wage and that kind of thing. The vote is coming up oh presumably next week. Any sense on where this one's going to go.

I'm confident that we're going to pass a very significant ordinance that makes a difference in people's lives. And that's the answer to your FIRST to your question a while ago. We have a coalition of 55 community groups church groups low income groups labor groups and senior groups who are saying we need to have accountability for our tax dollars. It hasn't been there in the past. That's what's driving this debate. We have we don't have a job crisis right now we have a wage crisis. But I have a minute to go. We think that frankly that the there is a nice group of 50 some people supporting this. They're not in the business of creating jobs. We are along with our partners we work hard on this every day. I can name names of companies that wouldn't come to Duluth. They have told me right to my face that they won't come to Duluth if such an ordinance is passed. I think that's a big issue. We have trouble talking to companies that are down in the Twin Cities and other places in the country that might come to Duluth.

We can't do it if this ordinance passed in the case of the council take it up on Monday night we'll see what happens Gentlemen thanks for coming down. Next up crime and punishment. The. People's concern about crime is dropping. Perhaps reflecting the actual crime rate which

has also been dropping overall for the past two years. And after years of rolling out everything from midnight basketball to three strikes and you're out something seems to be work and the question is What does one of the topics for tonight's Law and Order panel John Locke's as executive director of the Minnesota board of Peace Officer Standards and Training He's also the former Minneapolis chief of police. Professor Chris ucan teaches sociology at the University of Minnesota and Ron Parry is chief of police in Northfield. John Locke's I want to start with you and I feel we have to start with the verdict on the comments by the two lawyers earlier that. Police misconduct happens an awful lot. And also they just sense to be a general lack of training outside of the big departments. They're just dead wrong. The police are an honest profession and not here to say that there aren't mistakes made and there aren't occasional dishonest officers and we deal with them. But I was really incensed when I listen to those comments about the general degradation of law enforcement Minnesota. We are the highest trained professional law

enforcement officers in the nation. We take our training very seriously we have continuing education credits we get high quality instructors. We hold people to those and those kind of remarks really do offend me. Chief when you were listening to those remarks you're Northfield small police department these department. I mean when a big case comes your way I mean that you're not used to handling I mean you worry about training about experience about just the routine of doing it over and over. Definitely and also resources smaller departments don't have the resources that they have in the larger departments. And it is a problem. There are people around that can help us B.S. and so forth but generally you're dealing at that time and it's you have to do your job and at that moment and then the courts get it and they take days and weeks to pick it apart and look at what you've done so it's a very difficult position to be at but to say that they were framed is really it. Pretty blatant statement I believe on the parts of the defense attorneys in this case.

I think that's one other thing on the dick case and Chris you can maybe you want to touch on this too. The argument that you know most cops are honest. There's always a couple of bad apples anywhere and the problem is that prosecutors take the the evidence that they ought to know they shouldn't that they and it is that you find that to be a big problem do you see that as a big problem. I would comment in my in my years as doing some investigations and then overseeing investigations that prosecutors would most times send you back and say you know this isn't enough this isn't thorough enough I want more questions asked I want more. Fear is not in his head like he's been told more than once. You know sometimes it happens. Continuing on a case of course the police and prosecuting attorneys have different views on what a case is complete and very often we get calls to go out and look at what they call the wish list go back and I need all these other things under my tree before I'll prosecute. OK.

OK let's move on to what we were originally going to talk about tonight which was the declining crime rates. You take a look at statistics from a long range point of view do you look at one or two things that you say are the most responsible for the crime rate going down. Well yeah and I think I think speaking before the show we don't want to be too optimistic I mean and I know that we have to rein it in just a bit. I think it's only been since about 1994 that the National Crime rates have tapered off that the national victimization surveys and Uniform Crime Reports. On the other hand we're seeing drops that are too big to ignore and statistically and I think in terms of affecting people's lives and it's very difficult to tie this to any sort of single factor. So when New York had a big drought this attributed to community policing. Well we weren't we weren't sure that they could be one factor. Certainly I think the very strong overall economy both

in the state and elsewhere it has had something to do with this because remember that when we're looking at index crime rates the modal category there is larceny theft rather than homicide or something that's going to drive it. So so I think I think it's at this point it's very difficult to tell. It's very difficult to tell I hope that I'm very optimistic that these towns will continue although as as the as the as we've seen since since the late 1980s at least we've had a severe youth violence problem. Chief I want to ask you about Northfield youth violence. I keep on hearing that you know this is just not a Metro problem we're having problems in our small town and it is that one of your major concerns yes it is. We're noticing more in the high schools in the middle schools. The incidents of violence there's a lot of programs in place to address that peer counseling and that sort of thing but it's increasing more and more and it's

becoming quite a problem for us. You said anything that your police department can do specifically and police departments in general can do John Locke's about the youth violence. Well we participate in the education programs we try to address violence when it happens and try to remove those violent people from from the scene. But still it's a community effort. The community ask get behind this and address the problem of violence. That's that's the big falso I think that a lot of people in years past said the police department need to solve this problem. And that's where we are. Mr. acted people in the 70s and 80s same community policing will lead the way just give us more money more cops will solve the problem. And we learn very very much the hard way that it is a community effort from parents to teachers to to the courts to schools to the family family family and police officers and so on.

The the issue of why it's dropping. And I think Chris is absolutely right. The youth violence issue is a separate one that scares the heck out of me because I don't see that abating. I came into law enforcement almost 30 years ago and we're starting to talk about that issue. We haven't made a commitment in this country to really address youth violence we through a few programs out. But we don't hold parents accountable. We don't hold kids accountable when they commit their first offense. We just take a tacit approach. You know I think the the fact that I see overall violent victimization is drop to 973 levels is probably good news but but. But they're certainly not at at say Sweeden levels or some R R or even even better than that and so and so I think I think that we've really got to to particularly continue focusing on the crimes of great concern and violent grown gun crime on homicide and and tape taking some

of the steps as they have in Boston as they have around the country to really target and target those areas. Gentlemen we could go on for another 10 minutes of afraid we've run out of time thank you all. OK. And if you want to say something about tonight's show here are the numbers. Let's get to the weather forecast. Summer continues in fact it looks like we're going to get more summery out with each passing day this weekend that's good news for tomorrow. Highs are going to be in the 80s across the state. Sunny to where is our beautiful weather map but a chance of there it is with thunderstorms north and west. And it's going to be more humid just about everywhere that you go. But don't go anywhere without watching Ahmed act tomorrow night the usual mix of politics public policy and whatever it is that they do plus a one on one interview with

Joe Dowling artistic director at the Guthrie are going to act tomorrow night at 7:00 o'clock. And just to get you into an arty mood for Friday on the weekend we're going to leave you tonight with the cast of Brenda performing today at that bastion of culture the Mall of America. Good night. Now it's not like Minnesota is made possible by the contributors to the power of two campaigns program funded with major grants from the Blanton Foundation and the McKnight foundation arts reporting on NEWS NIGHT Minnesota is made possible with grants from the National Endowment for

the arts and by Target stores deacons and marvelous through the Dayton Hudson foundation.