NewsNight Minnesota; 4163; NewsNight Minnesota Episode from 06/11/1997; SD-Base

Right there. Yeah. You know they didn't offer to fly. At CC Oh you know they screwed him over. Oh yes indeed. NEWSNIGHT Minnesota is a production of Katy CA with the stations of Minnesota

Public Television. Tonight on NEWSNIGHT the governor like some voters like them. But will the Supreme Court education tax credits anglers won the last round but Native Americans bound to go the distance. The rights back in court and making sure it doesn't happen again. Do we have the money. Do we have the technology. That's coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT. Tonight's broadcast of NEWSNIGHT Minnesota presented in part by Norwest banks contributing to the growth of the Twin Cities through support and community service and by General Mills a manufacturer of healthy food. Good evening and welcome to NEWSNIGHT interviews on the main stories coming up. But first Ken Stone in the news headlines from around Minnesota. Thanks Kathy. He was remembered as a father husband son and hero. State Trooper Timothy Beau was laid to rest today. About forty five hundred people

many of them Peace Officers turned out this morning in Coon Rapids to pay their last respects. But it was a 15 year veteran of the forests he is the first trooper killed in the line of duty since 1978. He was shot and killed early Saturday morning by Joseph Lindstrom who later turned his gun on himself. Lindstrom was also buried today as Congress continues to argue about a disaster relief bill a bipartisan group of Minnesota lawmakers went to East Grand Forks today to survey flood damage for themselves. The state Senate Transportation Committee took the trip to get a look at roads and bridges damaged by the flood but they saw much more. These nights Mike Mulcahy went along on the tour and filed this report. The Red River hardly looks threatening anymore but a closer look shows signs of devastation everywhere. Lawmakers didn't have to look far at all to find those coping with the aftermath. Their bus driver's home suffered. Forty thousand dollars worth of flood damage. It's hard to believe. Will you tell people about it and it would make your system

believe you until you actually see it. The devastation it has done to everybody here it's mentally physically it's just drained everybody completely for free it's unreal. People have to see it from overseas fields more than 3 miles away from the Red River are finally dry enough for planting. Roads that were washed away have been reopened but the costs are staggering. More than 17 million dollars to fix roads more than 25 million dollars to rebuild three schools in these Grand Forks and some cars can't be counted in dollars. Like the disappearance of township as frustrated residents move away so many of the neighbors will be leaving it want to remain there perhaps a lawyer or whatever just a few others in our communities. We have lost our community. There's no doubt about that. Lawmakers said it was sobering to see the extent of damage close up even now weeks after the flood businesses are closed and homes are uninhabitable.

Legislators from both parties say they sense area residents are tired of Washington delay in passing a really Bill I think it's just a general frustration it's the system how it works and they don't understand the games that are being played. They just know that they have real needs. Everybody knows they have real needs Why can't they get the aid here to get on with the reconstruction here. That's that's needed for the area in East Grand Forks. I might NEWSNIGHT Minnesota. Governor Carlson has promised to call a special legislative session for flood relief as soon as all the damage estimates are in. Later this summer. No deal yet on what to do with Concord square the apartment complex has been the focus of a two year battle on how to redevelop St. Paul's west side. Late this afternoon the city council still had not approved a plan by the Neighborhood Development Company bluff Holmes. Their plan to have four buildings would be demolished the remaining two would be renovated. A 29

town homes would be built. The seven million dollar deal would be targeted at low income families with rents from about three hundred to seven hundred dollars a month. Madison Wisconsin has lost its standing as being the best place to live in the country last year number one this year they've slipped to number seven. They've been overtaken by Rochester Minnesota which is now considered the second best place to live and that's behind the new number one Nashua New Hampshire. I've been there I'm not sure about this anyway other Minnesota cities that you see on the screen also slipped a bit. Minneapolis St. Paul used to be 87 there are now 118 all of this we might add is some science with more than a touch of subjectivity thrown into the mix. The ranking done by Money magazine in its July issue news on the Iron Range the giant's Ridge Ski Resort is going to get even bigger. Plans have been announced for a new 85 room hotel to make the resort a year round destination groundbreaking set for later this summer. And I remember this ad from the

last election season that raised such a ruckus it's just one of the barrage of campaign ads and political posturings that made this past legislative election the most expensive ever. Numbers are in candidates for the State House and Senate spends ten point four million dollars trying to get into or stay in office. That's up $800000 from 1992 when the previous record was set. About half of the total came from individual contributors and PACs. Third came from public subsidies. The rest from candidates and parties and Kathy. That's it. Thank you Ken. Well Governor Carlson's unwavering support for education tax credits has DFL or is hopping mad but voters seem to like it. According to a St. Paul Pioneer Press K our EDV Minnesota Public Radio poll almost seven out of 10 voters liked the idea of getting tax rebates or tax credits at least from money spent on educational tools like books and computers and. If that money goes directly to reimbursing tuition at a private school six out of 10 potential voters still like the plan only about one third oppose tax breaks for

private school costs. So like governor likes it voters like it. But do the courts. Professor Susanna Sherry teaches at the University of Minnesota Law School constitutional law is one of her specialties. Always a pleasure to welcome. Thank you. You know state representative Becky Kelso has always said she has problems with the governor's tax credit plan because she feels it violates the constitutional separation of church and state. So I was kind of wondering here is there is this a clear argument. It's not clear in either direction the Supreme Court decided two cases 10 years apart in 1973 they struck down a New York State law giving tax benefits for tuition tuition to private schools and in 1983 they upheld an Minnesota law giving tax to deductions that law still on the books. It gives tax deductions for various tuition and book and transportation payments and so this case falls or the governor's proposal falls somewhere in between those two cases sticky constitutional question then if

you're an attorney on either side there's a thicket that you have to maneuver somehow. It is and I'm not sure that the current plan maneuvers that well. The the difference between the two plans the one that was struck down and the early one first of all it was only for private school students it was not given to public school students. The later one was given to everybody so I think the governor's plan which goes to everybody that one works but the other difference that the court noted was that the public the one they struck down was a very complicated scheme they weren't sure whether it was a deduction or a credit but it was clearly designed as a tuition reimbursement plan. And if you were entitled to some money and your taxes didn't get up that high the government the legislature just sent you the money and the other one it was a regular deduction. That is if you deduction only goes up to your income and if your income exceeds if you do the deduction exceeds your income well then you're out of luck you don't you don't get any money back. The first one you got money back if your credit if your income was very

low. My understanding is that the governor's current plan has that that aspect and that makes it a little more suspect under the Constitution. Well how different professor is the state constitution versus the federal constitution on these matters. Well that's another whole can are I see the Supreme Court of course was ruling on the federal Constitution. The Minnesota Supreme Court also struck down an earlier tax credit plan in the early 70s but only on the basis of the Federal Constitution relying on this Supreme Court case I was telling you about the Minnesota Constitution is quite different. It instead of saying that there shall be no establishment of religion it says no money can be spent to support private schools. But the Minnesota Supreme Court has not interpreted that that very strictly. That is they were given an opportunity in this earlier case to suggest that tuition tax credits might violate the Minnesota constitution and they didn't. What they did was essentially say well we reluctantly conclude that it violates the federal constitution because the Supreme Court is making us say that.

So what do you look to if you're an attorney on either side to look to the state constitution or the federal Constitution. Oh you have to it has to pass both. If it is unconstitutional under either one then it will be invalidated it can't be upheld so it has to pass both. I think that the federal Constitution is a more difficult hurdle just because the law is so unclear there. There is a case though before the U.S. Supreme Court that has ramifications. It's a different case but it has ramifications for a tax credit plan or a school voucher plan in Minnesota does it not. Yes it does. The earlier cases were decided in an era when the court was very strict about saying no tax dollars can ever be used to support religion in any way. And one of the things they did during that period was to say that the state couldn't send teachers into private schools or into sectarian schools religious schools even to do non-religious things remedial reading helping children with disabilities. The state couldn't pay those teachers to go in. That case is now back before the court and they are

invited essentially reconsideration they may be ready to overrule it which shows that in the intervening time since the 1980s they've relaxed a little bit on letting the government spend money. There was a case in fact last term where the University of Virginia subsidized student newspapers and they subsidized they were required to subsidize their religious newspaper as well. So the government the court is letting the government spend more money. So this should be interesting to see just where this falls on either side. It depends exactly how it's crafted. All right I appreciate it thank you so much you know how you again right now or just toss it over to Ken with another legal story back in March should look like fishing in Minnesota would be quite a bit different this year in the black span of a Jeb way had won its case to exercise its treaty rights the DNR and come out with a set of limits on fish non-Indian anglers could take in the 12 counties affected by the 1837 treaty. Some of the stringent DNR rules were prompted by the treaty ruling some would have been put in place anyway.

But then the state appealed the ruling and the X-band rights were put on hold until the case could be heard on appeal and that happens tomorrow. At stake are fishing limits on the state's most popular walleye fishery like no lax. Dennis Anderson is the outdoor reporter for The Star Tribune he's been following the legalities of this among other things. One of the things that struck me Dennis only 40 minutes of oral arguments is very brief time for a very complicated case. Interestingly in less complicated case cases that a peach reach the appeals court. The time is even briefer. OK talking about brief time in about four minutes let's try to run down some of the main arguments the 1837 created talked about that they could have these right at the pleasure of the president. Thirteen years later President Taylor No one voids the rights. And there's arguments over whether you really did or not. That was in 1850 and of course the state is arguing that when that order was given by President Taylor that that extinguished those hunting and fishing rights and also ordered the Indians removed which they did not remove from Minnesota and Wisconsin.

The bands of course have prevailed in lower federal courts and saying that that order was invalid largely because they argued the Indians believed at the time of the signing the 1837 treaty that they could be removed and those rights taken from them. Only if they misbehave and the federal courts and US Supreme Court's court over many years now in looking at federal treaties with the Indians have said that it is what the Indians believed to have in their minds occurred at the time of the treaty signing a negotiation. That's how these things have to be decided and that's one of the things that the state and the private landowners are attacking is it that they want to play what they call a plain language standard well it is very plain language if you look at it it would seem that clearly there were privileges at the pleasure of the president and that they were revoked. But there are a wide variety of circumstances around that revocation that obviously the lower courts have. Used to rule in favor of the Indian so far. OK there's also an argument over the 1855

treaty which the X-band signed my life span signed it said that at that time we gave up all right title and interest in lands in the area and that seems plain language but again it goes back to how the Indians believed these matters to be negotiated at the time what the mindset was of the Indians. Many differences of course in languages. The Indians at the time did not have a written language at least not a very good one and they were dealing with written documents. All of these factors have entered in so the state as in other cases other states dealing with Indian treaties and similar situations has a very high hurdle to cross before they can. Get a decision in their favor. A lot of passion. On this topic that has to do with the idea of what's fair what's not fair and yet the decision is going to rest on the legal precedents and very precise legal standards and the appeals judge are going to rely on that not on what exactly there is a real cultural clash here and obviously much of has been said about the Indians culture and over the years

how those various aspects of hunting and fishing gathering have played a key role in defining their culture. But it's also true and I think this explains to a large degree why non-Indians feel so strongly about this their culture has been one of largely in this century a conservation code has been developed especially in the last 10 or 15 years. Catch and release this whole idea of trying to be a sport angler and Indians and rightfully from their position do not consider sport fishing or sport hunting really have any validity. They have a lot to harvest half a minute to go. Various federal judges have ruled on these topics no matter what happens in the appeals ruling. This could end up in the Supreme Court because there's a number of unresolved issues that's right it could end up in a Supreme Court though where the bet is that it wouldn't the Supreme Court will only take about 10 percent of cases that it is asked to hear and they take about two Indian cases each session of theirs. It's possible not likely I would say that this is going to

be among the last to Ross for this case now it could be a complicated decision they could rule not entirely for one side or the other they could be man parts of it to a lower court for reconsideration. So we'll have to see the three judges will begin their deliberations soon after tomorrow I'm sure. Decision by the end of the year we think. Certainly they put this on a fast track and they say that it's going to come by the end of the year. So why spring fishing next year we'll know. More than Sanderson Star-Tribune Thanks for coming in. All right thank you. And tomorrow we're going to interview Howard Hanson. He's one of the landowners who suing through the courts to put an end to rights. Well we asked the man to send a representative also. They declined. Catherine over to you. Eric thank you Ken. Well now a little history lesson the Emancipation Proclamation went into effect January 1st 1863. General Lee surrendered to General Grant in April of 1865. So why is it that we commemorate June 19th 1865 as the end of slavery. Dr. David Taylor knows that in a lot more history he is dean of the general college at the University of

Minnesota Dr. Taylor welcome to NEWSNIGHT. For folks who have heard about Juneteenth or at least heard the word Juneteenth give us a little thumbnail sketch or explain what exactly it is. Well June 13th is a local celebration that is achieved national prominence. It was the recognition that on the 19th of June 1865 Major General Gordon Granger of the Union Army who actually took command of the city of Houston and issued a proclamation that explained to the citizens of Houston that the war was over and that the former slaves were to enjoy equal status with respect to the law and as for respect to property rights and a new relationship existed between former masters and slaves then being employer now an employee and this was just devastating to whites having to recognize that the war was over but it was

exhilarating to blacks to know that now they could do whatever they wanted to do. But those folks that area up to that point did not even know that they were freed Is that correct that is correct. In fact if you knew that and accept the fact that Lee lost the war and that the city was eventually taken in late May so June was the final occupation and the taking over the control by the Union forces you mentioned Juneteenth as a local celebration that it gained national prominence. Yes talk about that. It began with former slaves in Texas. It was a time for families to get together. For communities to reconstruct their history and to share that as a lesson for the younger generation. It waxed in the wane in the Depression with the dispersion of blacks out of Texas. It languished gained some strength again in the 40s and 50s languished again just before the onset of the civil rights movement gained

popularity again in the 70s and then national prominence and the national prominence. Probably because there are very few celebrations of a national level that blacks can look back to in respect to their history and heritage and to gain lessons from it and to teach the next generation about. There were some. The emancipation of Jamaica for instance. I was in 1833 was a national celebration that blacks kind of recognized and had picnics behind in the summer particularly here in Minnesota. There were the Emancipation Proclamation there was a ball every year for a number of years at the turn of the century even here in Minnesota and here in Minnesota. But that went by the wayside as well. And everyone needs something to celebrate. This was a vehicle by which both history could be taught but also to recognize the struggles that the slaves experience in Texas.

You mentioned a young African-Americans understand the significance of this date this event. Do you do young young people understand it at this stage of the 1990s. Well one can say one doesn't know what one understands anymore but the history and lessons of history have to be such that they're not being taught in the home they have to be institutionalized because the lessons of the past can only inform the future. And unless children understand the sacrifices of those that went before and or stand what rights are and how to preserve them. We will never learn will never be able to pass this on to the next generation. So it's imperative that we have celebrations like this. Kwanzaa is another example of trying to instill values. Juneteenth is a recognition that there is a strong African-American unity as has national significance there in values there is history behind us. Does the media understand the value the significance of Juneteenth.

Well we would hope that we were training the media to appreciate that and say valent and affirm it as an African American holiday where we do then impart to the next generation the lessons that were were passed. It's not it is as much about barbecue and eating and socializing as it is about teaching and passing on a tradition to the next generation. I believe that there was a pleasure thank you so much Dr. Taylor thank you. Now right now I'm going to let you look at this weather map this lovely weather map. I'm going to get set for some live drum music Stay with us. I am standing here right now with Nimely in Ottawa the head of the nimbly

Pan African Dance Company Welcome to NEWSNIGHT actually have your whole troop here we're here to talk a little bit and you have gorgeous instruments as well. I base all traditional African Yes because I'm all traditional music instruments from Liberia gaining synagogue. I do they have special significance each of them. Yeah all these instruments belonging to different different society in Africa you have the Pele from Togo and now the pressure from Liberia and also in color. These are different instrument of playing and I'm talking Joe. You're playing both Ghana and talking to him I love that what does that mean. The talking drawing world Italian from Terra message forwarded to the Chief which me is the time crying out because long ago there was no telephone these where you telephone to Africa and I want to hear that they significance namely of keeping and we were just talking about keeping traditions alive and history alive. The significance of playing these instruments in keeping these sorts of this

music alive well just music been for a long time from Africa has been for a long time especially in Liberia. I was in sister played this instrument for a long time and there was my telephone the scary message for the Warriors the chief warriors and the pass on passed on from generation to generation and we've been keeping that that life. Yeah just real quickly here you're having a concert soon. Yeah we having a concert next Friday and Saturday I mean more of America OK which is June 20th and 21st. And we're also having a master class on Lake Street. Also the master class Sigal from synagogue and this is I want to anniversary is called the name of Pan African dance company and our tour anniversary will be presenting his Friday next Friday please. I want to hear something thank you so much. You're welcome. Just.

Templates are. Just friends. That's. It.

This. Is made possible by the contributor to the program from the Blanton Foundation and the Knight Foundation. Tonight's broadcast of NEWSNIGHT Minnesota is presented in part by Norwest banks contributing to the growth of the Twin Cities through support and community service and by General Mills a manufacturer of healthy food and snacks.