Martin Agronsky: Evening Edition; 15

silver long to la and a ling ling hua from washington this is our heroes but even today israeli premier of been announced is or rejected in part egypt's latest proposal for an israeli egyptian agreement but at the same time are being added the process of negotiations is continuing and he by no means ruled out the prospect of an agreement the secretary of state henry kissinger remained cautiously hopeful but kissinger says both sides of them closer together but there are gaps and the sardonically added if both sides can only survive each other's

public statements then there will be an agreement earlier this week a leading edition we discuss the state of peace in the middle east with the israeli ambassador to the united states senate the donuts snyder discussing with the egyptian ambassador to the united states ostroff garbo and joining in the discussion is jeremiah o'leary state department correspondent for the washington star with investor the obvious boyle is do you agree with dr kissinger that when the israeli premier mr of being rejected in part the egyptian proposals for an interim agreement that in those set stop the negotiating crosses an agreement is still possible when all depends what is involved in and rabin sounds i'm sure that i had when i would still be a funny

what would be communicated to it by my sick because we are anxious to have another agreement with anxious to achieve peace it's good for everybody i hope we can work with the other the world at large as a general understanding the israel was going to in the end to make some considerable territorial concessions something involving the two passes me blindly be something involving abu day soil feels and something involving a system of surveillance if you will of the frontier with perhaps the military frontier with the un's presence but perhaps with american technicians along the lines of these existing and so forest where are the world and myself was an observer and i get a little lost

is since egypt is not to give up territory since the territories that song what is the form or area of concession that egypt might make as a quid pro quo in this equation and as you said that it's egyptian territory that is occupied by force of arms of the state of history so where would they go in his own deer unexpected element in the equation of things that that question to expose that in the first disengaged and we had this and we have an agreement and i think of the two sides have have lived up to the agreement and they are now trying to build up the second step with the second stage of show rent out evans' the evidence of the old building up to achieve at an atmosphere of doctor because well we might get a little more

specific than that for example israel when wishes and demands some form of non belligerents declaration of non belligerent see him for a period of time perhaps not a declaration made by egypt to israel but perhaps made by egypt to the united states is the jets prepared tonight any concession along the lines of a declaration of non belligerence even on a limited time that's what i think we we all found the answer in the air know use of force formula for a period of time there which sheer i would be based on the perspective the agreement only progress that is continuously to be made in order to achieve peace on the earth they're what we call nerd the argument that it about the

components of making the sin in the area as a whole not only egypt libya syria and that all of the palestinians in the west bank that i think i am as the united states have had a scene from the action of egypt and the world has seen from the action of egypt as sincere we started the process of a lot of negotiating to achieve these that we are serious about a look at what the what we did i was in egypt recently and i did visit the command the canal now is open for her international traffic and i was happy at the witness a convoy going from the south the north american ships italian ships in illinois we need that i've seen also with any cargo designed for israel perhaps now i haven't seen them and that this vintage and

after home we are living dead to me the question would do you can't have warned one thing on one side and gradually on the other side you must you must believe that they're together unless you want to be that totally in one step we're ready for it that never second phone from taking that investment there are a couple of things of the race in just the past few days that raises some concerns for example in the president's about speech to his party in car wi with that by the way had no i had let that well what the president said at that point was he described israel as an imperialist dagger pointed at the heart of the arts why that kind of language in the midst of what is currently a serious the situation is when in lakin don't forget that there are strategic troops right there not only an egyptian tour victories but equally on

syrian and jordanian palestinian territories and every day they are attacking seven eleven or you can call that they are a peaceful situation i know i was there i am i am looking out for the day reed martin and you know where we would change these words into the words of that we are all living in these new atmosphere within with an hour of need and international borders whether strain would have its own borders borders of sixty seven where we have about where the palestinians have their states and cities and i think when when we all look at that and see that then we would not take the advice of sick because maybe we then consider vital existence on both sides there's advice was set forth another

book about beating their swords into plowshares and there's a lot of voice either outwardly we're going to move there but then there are these these things at that raise some concern about the atmosphere the other concern is egypt's participation long before the other mosque in states and a proposal that israel be either suspended or expelled from the united nations which again it's the same consonant with and that was for use when at put yourself in the shoe was oh well those would dictate that stage what do they say they see a state that plaza they're systematically continue the occupation of the people is belonging to other states that considered any the people understand what living with rationing understand what now if you do use twenty eight years in the state of the nation in the future they're nonexistent have witnesses have used the pool

and they see that regardless of tool for two and three three eight and of the efforts of the world in the security council and of the united states where we are that this trade his lady friends and if it is made and too many people around the world biggest move the action by the african states with a cup of diplomatic missions with this pick as she made a mockery of of the security council resolution that does that but you all these massacres pragmatically do you really think that israel is a threat in that sense or that it these are to be put out early on after the un as a forum and what's the diplomatic process can operate in which companies that have differences can sit down and talk to like put israel out of the us if it seems senseless operation it's so difficult to bring together is really needed in terms of negotiating face to face of these years of four in which

both can express the points of view i repeated seems utterly in in in and consonant with what the whole atmosphere of these negotiations for a second when it's equally an utterly opponents for ford it will have that the victorians of comply and to have their rights violated the sea the situation just dragging year after year and again marc i always believe in the policy of looking ahead that if this it adheres to their resolutions for financing their obligations on the two fourth june for which you voted and the security council voted unanimously for three three eight that has been supported as a map that affect growth about into existence by the united states not all of that there would be would be on the table and that that his own death for the resolution they can in

their injured that would then would then disappear i hope we can achieve ends i hope is very respectful of the patients and if so we can look ahead would be fair to say that perhaps it is a political necessity for the egyptian leaders to say one thing for public consumption at home and to talk a bit more moderately in in our less heated atmosphere is for example here in washington where everything is cool and calm and we had no problems and here's where the lights that most of the airport has its own but it's a vis egypt knows the legalities of the general assembly can't expel the country what i have in mind was it was a secretary of state's observation that he sincerely hopes that both nations may re survive each other's public statements they're like me cool

you know when we have been anxious to court but we have also been anxious not to let the situation just go to sleep again and that you have witnessed month and how things just throws from sixty eight to seven you and the only way to wake itself was not the advances of peace but the explosion that brought the middle east and dropped the word now are we going to have another repeat performance that i hope not we are anxious we are committed to make beats and there and we are we have been patient and and that we would spare no effort to achieve they just an honorable these that when we make it stick and lost let's talk about timeframes units you extended the un force mandate from oprah's new un force

for a period of that how long three months three months all the talk that we hear about the term of the interim agreement has three years is egypt prepared to accept a interim peace agreement that it would have a three year trip when martin i'm sure you respect my limitations and not going into the details of what is being lost now who said a kissinger from one party to the other but i would say this that i've said and it beat we are determined to make every effort to continue to been to achieve gains and we would have no objection at the time and the main component there coupled with the question of well over no use of force and that coupled with the

growers and that is going to be made that although and to achieve peace to get all these factors in mind in order to bring about withdrawal from authentic doors or living with the state of history and it was if i read you correctly which are saying is that that is possible three years or whatever the term maybe we need and fix a specific term but that still want egypt is committed at this point to carry through these negotiations at the point where they'd do result and even an enduring peace agreement nothing has occurred changes that no way are receiving that we're waiting to receive images of the ideas we had communicated it is a word that was submitted this afternoon i suppose in the process of being transmitted not our body of dr kissinger well as difficult as these negotiations and saying that

over forty or fifty kilometers of science fiction science and lebanon over a long period of time it seems like a day in the company compared with what lies beyond that when you envision that go on heights which is not much wider than the distance between where we certainly our embassy and the problems of the west bank and certainly the problem of the palestinians and the problem of jerusalem even if there is success and seemingly in this seemingly difficult negotiation but still the easier of the hole group wherein do we go after that back to geneva when you have the second disengagement on the city and estrangement is one i think we have had that experience before in the first phase where you have the egyptian and the new affordable i buy the syrian i i think the experience has proved to be useful

and we should be in the news from experiences and nothing is impossible and with that being achieved in it to win and bring about an ad that atmosphere of these relaxation and then we moved to the palestinian west bank i would ask you about the syrian problem because you would be competent to speak for the syrians you're right but sharm el shake comes to mind the straits of tehran where this some people say the sixty seven war really started and that doesn't seem to figure in these negotiations of all we would like them to feel it does is related to abu diverse but not as well as the egyptians are asking for the whole strip of territory from aboud goes to services are correct well and again i'm not going to go into the details of the same geographic areas but

what is important to be having is that we believe that a lot of this training troops must we don't totally from sinai as winners from avatar un resolution in order to to have thirty of these in the eerie or without getting too specific about how many miles this time a nominee miles next time dozens of have any objection to the presence of not of us forces but of a small us force of a sophisticated nature equipped with electronic listening devices that in that in a sense representing the mediation nation would be responsible for detecting violations are movements of forces on either side of any new lyme disease object of this concept when that and look at the relationship that has developed and the friendship and the

cost has given between japan the united states we're the united states today is tremendous the german broaden that and thinking about that peace in our area and then look at their work that we have done in in and requesting the united states some states have done it including the suez canal and not only that there yeah but those so at the present time commuting than the mines are north of sousa north of four say northwest of oversight on this has shown that and egypt is that it not only willing to a variety of anxious to have the united states that they have an important vote and now and moving about the two sides they're closer together than we won't we won't have any objection to see are continuously at deploying more efforts in has been

booming thing is about a russian lada where they're saying that yes egypt wouldn't be to accept the existence of the lottery your feet i can't forget the famine soviet so a small soviet unit similar to a small us supervisory are listening post ipo when i have not gotten into what aspects that would it be military or civilian i i do not want to get into the details on the mechanics of things i haven't done neither into what has been discussed about i would say that certainly egypt has indicated over and over again that we would be ready to receive united nations force is the armed forces in order to help bring about peace and in order to live i can't imagine you wouldn't want large forces from either the soviet union or the united states large forces well yeah

i always believe in and leaving dead the technicality is that the technicians and that the most saying that generated on the secondhand the snap is much better than an upward diplomats my like myself or string bass or when we refuse to accept your ford the one that would make the diplomats it as yourself followup injuries born this way what role of the russian fleet i think they have the they have been playing a very constructive role in that you have seen the meetings between separatists injured and gloomy poll on several occasions and seventy seven areas oh you have the scene of the continuous our contacts are between not on the subject of benin and the answer because we have been in continuous set close touch

with on these super and big powers including the soviet union and because we believe that that the fed really have peace in the middle east and peace in the world it has affected their we have reason to complain that the soviet someone giving us enough weapons at an open secret that to replenish olive blossoms i don't want to go beyond that and on the other side they're not the soviets had in hand from in calling for the geneva conference reciting going to geneva conference that way all of that exercise would ultimately need to geneva in order not only that dissension over and he denies it but also in order to bring about the atmosphere is that the well has been some concern that so important play wrecking role or they might have chosen to engage in intrigue in order to preserve a position of greater influence with the arab countries and that is not no i do i i haven't

seen really and we talked about the last time i was on the air with you and i have seen and i can say that i've seen and the soviet play a positive role and they have not by any means a dry to some with irish the efforts that the army made today here for the united states in the country that we have seen that the insect because has given back there's been no indication that the acting of stuff so i am curious about is the adverse reaction in cairo to the request of israel's for being that the agreement be concluded in the end and face to face talks about three women working in the words of egypt and israel somewhere along the line here have to sit down and talk to each other why is there so adverse reaction to her when i i don't

i can say that that is adverse reaction to an idea which effect is sitting in geneva we have set with these strange reasoning here is sitting didn't you know need to one the one we have beset with them no i i said as long as an experience has been proven useful and constructed that we should not shy away from and i don't think i brought a shying away from egypt will live with that and because the impression is that it was not prepared to accept that i'm wrong i well it depends on what your meaning by by eric negotiations if you mean the same thing as we have had in creating those military disengage and now that which have taken place and give me that one one with the syrians in geneva and in the atmosphere of the whole conference in geneva the experience has been there and we should be going what is the present attitude of your

government on whether or not the yellow or any palestinian organization should be represented at jimmy when we certainly are convinced don't really convinced and committed to the idea that we don't have peace in the middle east without really solving the princeton nj and you've got to have a successful geneva that would create a successful lost in peace with the palestinians but this meeting in geneva now we have said and president said that his corpse advice that and that has encouraged the bandstand but to establish a government and in order that the government of their will in order that that they would put into effect at the end of our conference that then they would establish a national independent state in the

territories that will be evacuated by the history of the occupying forces without limits they did that and the plo showed up with a government of some kind of geneva when the israelis walk out i certainly hope not i hope that if we are talking really about progress development in thinking and understanding in approach than the israelis realize and they should've realized that long ago and then that is a nation and the loss that is a government that is in the nation and they would have to live in these wins dead neighbours depends what i've seen no signs that there's a palestinian government in exile or whatever you would call it it seems to be a collection of disparate warring sometimes warring factions were for one popular leader whose name is well known in this country but certainly doesn't represent them all no one has been has been i think not only a given

that it has the majority representation of the palestinians but equally as the media and the sanctioned the recognition of the united states and other states african novelist has been better equipped with only a few seconds i'm wondering are being said that was that he called on egypt to commit itself that all future difference of opinion be solved peacefully through negotiations would lead to like that i think game and our talk about the period the ottoman period the length of the time in which the two countries would have nordic course to force i think that spins out the idea of the desire only reject them equally of this really regard that as an implicit except when air again episode get into the mechanics of things i'm trying to get into the principles and not into it was

filibustered during the night monday on the evening it isn't a discussion of the state of the economy and the outlook for recovering or not recovering without william seidman assistant to the president's economic affairs for the funding provided by public television stations and the ford foundation and the corporation for public broadcasting you this program was produced by an impact a division of ge waga which is solely responsible for its content or you'll man named it