150 Years of the 14th Amendment

no state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the united states nor shall any state deprive any person of life liberty or property without due process of law nor denied any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws i'm j mcintyre and today on kbr presents the fourteenth amendment it's been called the single most important amendment to the us constitution with wide ranging applications to civil rights same sex marriage abortion and other issues this year marks the one hundred fiftieth anniversary of the fourteenth amendment it was the focus of this year's constitution day at the dole institute of politics held september eighteenth two thousand eighteen this event featured chief judge julie robinson and senior judge john one strum both of the us district for kansas and was moderated by steve mcallister us attorney for the district in kansas iowa going to lower cost usual proposal road for just a couple of minutes the fourteenth amendment is ratified in nineteen sixty

eight obviously follows the civil war follows the thirteenth amendment years before which abolishes slavery but the thirteenth amendment alone would not have guaranteed rights it would simply got rid of slavery so the fourteenth amendment is the amendment that is really crucial and many many ways and one of the reasons it's crucial is earlier in the nineteenth century the supreme court had had a decision that said the bill of rights of free speech freedom of religion insurgency you're all of that italy does not warrant the space shuttle so the fourteenth amendment is going to become the mechanism by which the supreme court over time will basically given all of us the bill of rights protections against all levels a government so local state in the fertile are bound by the bill of rights of the fourteenth amendment is important for that reason one of the reasons the fourteenth amendment is also extremely important is the very first sentence

in the very first sentence about all persons born or naturalized in united states and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the united states and of the state wherein they reside is bass lute constitutional ruling the dred scott decision which said that african americans their descendants simply could not be citizens of the united states of the fourteenth amendment person's takes care of birds got in that respect anyway then what you have are free clauses and this is where it's kind of interesting the first clause is called the privileges or immunities clause and all these provisions you'll see over telling states you cannot deprive people or you must provide something to citizens so then this isn't for the federal government or do at the moment is directed at state and local governments and the first cause the privileges or immunities clause there's argument about whether

that was supposed to be a lot more than it has become i you could argue while the privileges or immunities of us citizenship that's my right to work my right to live places the trouble to go to school to do all sorts of things seventy three the supreme court said no doesn't really mean much ms decision called the slaughterhouse cases they said it's things like you get a vote in federal elections go to the post office you can use the federal court system that's not an insignia want you can use the seaports us but they really limited the privileges or immunities clause very early on five years after the amendment was ratified the next cause you'll probably be familiar with the due process clause which protects deprivations of life liberty or property without due process of law will be talking about that win tonight that's one that from which what you might think of as the privacy

and human dignity in those kinds of decisions that often come out of the due process of the fourteenth amendment as liberty interests that the court is protecting and in the following rules to be talking about the equal protection clause which obviously is the basis for brown vs board in other cases will be talking about so i do want to keep that in mind as we go along and i may refer back to it as we talk because the fourteenth amendment does so much it's not won caucuses not one provision that's not one concept it's a whole lot of things and over time has become in my view the single most important amendment probably mean obviously you need to get rid of slavery with the thirteenth amendment but in terms of creating writes the fourteenth amendment is the most important amendment and to the constitution so without like to turn our panelists in and ask each of you to talk

about a fourteenth amendment decision by the supreme court before and critically know where the important interesting to talk about the case and what it means and even perhaps you know what it means to that well start the fourteenth amendment has been referred to is the great man and i think the most significant cases than the brown versus board decision case which was a case in society under the equal protection clause of the fourteenth amendment and that's been referred to the case of the century others have referred to it as the case that really was the launching pad for many more civil rights acts and litigation and decisions as well that provided for equal protection a lot of variety of other contexts outside of public education course the brown versus gore case decided that the fourteenth amendment the equal protection clause in it that african american children are entitled not only to public education but to integrate public education public education sitting side by side other american

children and you know there's so many stories that can be told about why it's a significant but it really i think was the product of years and years of strategy by very bright group of lawyers primarily african american lawyers one of whom became the first african american supreme court justice thurgood marshall who was appointed to the supreme court in nineteen sixty seven he decided that in light of plessy versus ferguson which was the case that the supreme court said separate but equal and ensures equal protection under the law in light of the language of plessy versus ferguson they decided their strategy in part was to focus on that language and ago about proving that separate facilities and public education were not at war they weren't people in a tangible way in terms of the money that was spent the teachers the resources the curriculum but they also wear it on an intangible way because education is not only about

things that you can buy things that you can pay for that education is about the experience and beyond the opportunity to and fellowship with people that may be a little bit different and you had to learn from one another to sit by one another and to feel like you are fully included in society so thurgood marshall and others you know i read a veteran martial et to travel more than fifty thousand miles a year for very little pay and he was just one of many that devoted their lives relate to this and that culminated in in the decision in the nineteen fifty four decision williams brown versus board you know and of course we all and have a great affinity for the case because it into lead cases five cases of course it came before the supreme court and marty together but the lead case was out of topeka kansas thirteen plaintiffs with twenty children that were in topeka public schools aren't there were action almost two hundred plaintiffs across the other states that were involved in the litigation but you know that was the leak case i think that forever

more it's something that we can be proud of his kansans that we had parents that were brave and willing to fight this fight and it was a long fight so i think that is one of the most if not the most significant fourteenth amendment case because education is such a fundamental right it is so so so core to our ability to operate its it so it's a quarter are having liberty in this country so it began with at least in terms of public education in the lower schools are already been test cases in and successful cases actually in higher education but that case brown vs board been launched us into so much more that in terms of equal protection and public accommodation housing transportation ultimately employment and all that that's chief judge julie robinson of the us district court for the district of kansas she spoke at the dole institute of politics annual constitution day event

this year is marking the one hundred fiftieth anniversary of the fourteenth amendment and now senior judge john one strum of the us district court obviously it's a target the muppets opens with dark brownish orange thing that most memorable an important the fourteenth amendment is their marijuana he says that we all know something about they don't necessarily relate to the fourteenth amendment roe vs wade bush versus gore overkill versus hodges the same sex marriage case all of these cases would not have been able to be decided on those subjects of abortion and the election are on people the same sex to get married but for the fourteenth amendment allowing the federal courts to make rulings about things the states were to undertake the war perhaps prosaic subject a whole i think it's really important and that's voting rights in a series of cases in the nineteen sixties how the seminal case for our purposes

really big roles first since the supreme court said that the idea of one person one vote was something which had to be honored at the state level as well as another case of a federal level under the constitution itself before that time state legislatures would have been many many instances where we now apportioned out for the usual situation was years would go by population might change were all folks move into urban areas but those world history is continuing to have the same number of representatives and so the hole election process not weighted towards critically real interest these of the war the population was then living in the states were rovers a sense of what was played that there is an equal protection interest there a year ago to my vote ought to be worth the same whether we live in a rural area or a barrel or we're going to have

that on the ability of americans to influence the way in which their state local governments really carry out their activities i've had cases on that a local laws including one about it at ninety three gold gold was first round that time which i found in the third circuit agreed i was right which has ties with syria kansas state board of agriculture was constituted was unconstitutional because it was collected by people from farmers nation's premiere yet it in general governmental powers and regulated the amount of pesticide you could put under a lot of all unregulated the way gas pumps would work at the gas station it wasn't just an agricultural promotion rejection yes since nineteen seventeen kansas and never change the way an elected this board that edison general power and basically it was a very small electorate didn't sell i found that that violated

the medical profession closed forty kilometer while in the principles of one first one since their more recent times the kansas legislature at the last census i didn't get around to her rear portion and that left in the laps of the three of us of the federal courts decide how to do all that but we were guided by the one person one vote principle reynolds for systems with regard to the state legislative districts as well as other cases with the federal election districts so there are real issues that we have to do with our courts that is a saleable prosaic the brown but i think or something there extremely important for small sums on those cases one person one vote still come up in various forms today and i will say before turn the next question that one of the justices i was fortunate to work for was justice our lawyer and his nineteen sixty two until ninety three and one when he visited the

law school one of our students asked him what do you think was the most important decision or line of decisions in your time as a justice on the supreme court in the axis of the one person one vote is is he thought in terms of the practical effect that had we're extremely significant sell well so we can always come back to some more historical perspective but also curious what you might wanna share with the audience about your modern experience if you will and we're talking about places that are fifty sixty years old and wants to bring in prescott in the slaughterhouse all right we've gone back a long ways but what about the kind of cases that too you see that really flow from fourteenth amendment principles working to limit doctors' is it still relevant as important today i would have to say that pretty significant share of the federal district court caseload is comprised of cases that are brought under torture title twenty announced his cassette in nineteen eighty three a civil rights statute

that people sue county and local governments and entities associate with that for deprivation of constitutional rights under the fourteenth amendment so if you cause fourteenth amendment cases and they are i don't know what percentage but they make a pretty significant percentage of our civil caseload so we can get you lots of examples but one that comes to mind are more in cases that are brought against police departments and for excessive force or false arrest or military against the county for malicious prosecution there are lots of those cases across the federal government and those are based on the fourteenth amendment applying the fourth amendment which says that you have a right not be subjected to unreasonable searches and seizures and so these are you know based on and on perhaps unreasonable seizures of a person when they're taken into custody or their their liberty in some way has been has been restricted and in the course of some interaction with law enforcement

and we get a fair number of those cases annually in a number of cases i think that are brought under the due process clause ian a minute procedural but procedural due process and substantive due process cases procedural due process as for that process cases for example someone says that they had a property interest that was terminated in some way by a subdivision of the state without a procedural due process they didn't receive notice and and adopting to be heard by a neutral decision maker in and one of those things are perhaps all and so we get a fair number of those cases with the cases that are brought against school boards often on based on the procedural due process provisions that at the un fourteen terror and you know the fifth amendment and what accounts than any app right now you're you've covered the waterfront where you know while you also sometimes see them emotionally unusual god takes

on the case was one of your lap for example in the case of raw bison herds in the johnson county school district you argue that the local option budget gap was unconstitutional was wily due process and equal protection of the fourteenth amendment the idea being that the school finance act basically said that there's a limit to how much local normal units can spend it all meant to be a state allegations and these parents thought that that violated their constitutional rights to not be able to spend more of a critical period right until election to impose an additional tax so that case which involves a little bit unusual set of facts i wouldn't i want a federal court were not for those are roles of the important chief you mentioned procedural and substantive due process maybe the two of

you could tease that out a little more explanation and some examples i'm in this is a sense that only there's only one due process clause was the understanding of this come to be its record interpretation is the color two different tracks for due process claims and so he was going to talk about the differences you have examples from your experience having to what was shared well and procedural due process really focuses on that person receive a fair process where they want the classes is we shall not be deprived of a hit not deprive any person of life liberty or property without due process of law so if someone for example is deprived of a proper be right they have a right to have a fair process meaning an opportunity to be heard which sort of scenes that they have to have noticed that they have an opportunity to to be heard in that that there's dna tissue itself will be decided by a neutral decision maker so there are number of cases that are brought under that provision substantive due process of

course the due process clause doesn't say anything about procedure or substance that it has and the courts have interpreted these two tracks a substantive due process is based on the notion that particularly talk about liberty that there are rights that are so fundamental to our liberty with this clause protects them and so the spring quarter sprint has been that such rights is the right to marry and robert burke oh berg of the case the right to marry not only somewhat of an opposite sex with someone of the same sex but the right to marry the right to have children that there are cyclical vs ryan labels are exactly the right of procreation right to have an abortion i'm all of these have hit the focus is dan that that's a fundamental right that you know the language around i think sets and due process often talks about autonomy and intimacy intimate rights in europe and decisions that are so personal to you

and so important to you that the government should not deprive of you in your respective the process the government should not deprive you of that right that there's errors were those cases get really are serious devotion of the grittier cities have available according to how they've tried to do that but the first that they have to decide is used there a fundamental right once inside there's a fundamental right then the mechanism of the fourteenth amendment provides a basis to have that your protection of the law exercise that right so it's not so much a fourteenth amendment analysis is that that kind of just falls into place but the question is is there a fundamental right to do a certain kind of thing or not to have a certain thing happened to you or whatever the situation and that they so that's a little more complicated than just what you would look at this piece of paper they get my character really well and there's you know there's obviously varying views about this and if you read

most of the cases the supreme court cases and that can talk about says and processes very different views about whether it something was a fundamental right and whether it was a fundamental right word right that was contemplated by the drafters of the fourteenth amendment the time they drafted it was ratified in nineteen sixty eight so it was constructed in nineteen sixties so they took a couple years so i mean it's you know the original is if you will so i go back and say something to contemplate what was the state of the law at that time it wasn't something they had in mind when they drafted this language about not being deprived of liberty well and sometimes obviously that that will not justify a decision in favor of right so the overthrow as a good example i mean if you look at that same sex marriage and the question is well was that something society recognizes hundred and fifty years ago the answer is pretty clear he's got one alive and then asked those questions was this really

firmly rooted well established should've known to the common law as they would call it so we should recognize it as something embraced by the constitution but another view is that why are we where will limit ourselves to what was going on a hundred and fifty or two hundred years ago societies of all we'd better appreciate overtime sometimes how important something is to people and so the importance of the interest really ought to be the dominant factor in whether we recognize this or not but you will see that tension constantly between the justices on the supreme court in these high profile cases and that's primarily the difference between the socal conservative justices the socal liberal justices all would agree that once you decided to put them all right fourteen to buy mortgage protection but determining whether resurgent right and how you go about attorney at this warily the debate really comes together that's senior judge

john one strum and chief judge julie robinson both of the us district court for the district of kansas if you're just joining us today on k pierre presents we're marking the one hundred fiftieth anniversary of the fourteenth amendment to the us constitution it's the annual constitution day program at the dole institute of politics at the university of kansas this event was moderated by steve mcallister us attorney for the district of kansas and was recorded on september eighteenth two thousand eighteen i'm kate mcintyre you're listening to k pr prisons and kansas public radio as i think is probably apparent for weeks and so far much of the law really is judged by i mean it is it is a matter of what started with really from the supreme court and then goes under the field of it to try to figure out what those people really made car but once you actually are giving some

calm tours to what the fourteenth amendment maine's their statutes like such a nike free which provide a vehicle for enforcing these rights what really comes right down to it what are those rights are largely determined by judges making those decisions are as district judges trial judges like julian are we're worried that were at the very bottom of that particular process was we very rarely are out there causing too much trouble maybe at some point get in the way or the way our system works how are we we have this tradition of common law in which judges try to figure out what the rules of the road ought to be based upon precedent and based upon what may be changing times might happen at that to

bring to it and so forth and so those nine supreme court justices when we're the ones who have to look at this language which is pretty bare bones and then say how does that apply to have an abortion had a supply in who i can wear how does that apply to how it have my school's son or my election process they have to decide that our cats as district judges i think is to try to figure out what they've said those rules are going to try to apply those faithful and that's not always easy as adults leave early a retired remember how you apply those about the most pivotal area as well so there are but you know what that's contested between julie and i have is to try to figure out what it is that the supreme court has told the ocean changed are going to be and how we would apply for the facts of the given situation the hardest

part about that is that you have real people there and it's not just a debate boil it isn't just rejoicing versus living got into comedy it is joe and tom and billy and mary and sell it and so on and so forth and they have real their concerns are real issues were looking for solutions figure out how all the rules apply to affect their real life well so that's that's the challenge i will say this so just in terms of focusing on her your question that talked about enforcement minnesota's supreme court you know announces a rule that you know has a great threat we have to ultimately figure out how it applies to the situations presented to us in real cases and controversies as they are individually presented to us the judicial branch has no enforcement power we don't have our own and you know how brave police to go out and make sure that our rules are our orders are enforced and so we rely on the fact that the

public that our american fellow americans recognize the rule of law and the forces that and that were governed by that even if we disagree with a particular rule of law it is the rule of law and so we really rely i guess on the american spirit in american culture to understand and largely it does but that's the way our system operates that we have a political voice and through our votes and in other ways in terms of loss ever legislated but there's this whole other body of law that common law that his judgment on that there's a recognition that that has equal force to and that is something that we all have to live with the pipeline the one thing i hear you telling us is you can't just pick up the constitution and read it for a moment and have an answer to because you think you can't h o ah

so maybe just a followup you can attest honestly both of you why because they're going to stay here because there's a lot of stuff in the media anymore and then supreme court confirmations as we've seen become the huge political battles is their lawyer or these cases just a judge saying well i'd really like to say about this war and that's how we're going to decide so you know i think one thing that gets lost in the messaging is the fact that a great percentage of supreme court decisions are unanimous i think it's is it forty percent that number six in my mind and it may change from your ear but you know the cases they get talked about primarily are the cases where there's dissension and disagreement in innocence and the due process is one of those areas where there's that kind of thing and so people get the sense that it's just you know nine judges and images disagree and they're just doing their own thing and that they're not paying attention to the law and you know i think you're awfully ever since

tonight that again were talking to their bones constitution and if you're someone that really wants to focus on what did the drafters of the fourteenth amendment had in mind that's a very difficult and houses and it's always a difficult analysis is just religion said to figure out is it a fundamental right or not and you know people look at these things differently but they're not assigning them on the basis of their ideology they're deciding them on the basis of this whole body of presidential law and you know they're really do all of them are really doing their best i'm trying to interpret that law in light of what their understanding is what the constitution says in and what it was meant to say what what would i would add to that is this i i have been out for a delicious biting it was that almost what condition years i have never heard federal judge say well i was appointed by republican was one of the democrats so i'm going to rule this way or that way and that the part there's no partisan angled what what is however clear is how

it would shift legal philosophy maybe and just like we all have different ideas about all sorts of things live there can be a good faith difference between somebody who believes that the way to interpret the constitutional is to try to figure out what the drafters man and those who say that's hamstring ourselves we need to be able to to grow with the times that's best a very consequential difference that's a very consequential argument as the difference between fatah voted for what often on the supreme court because they have a different philosophy about how to solve that problem and it's not because they're you wanted you are depressed that so and so or present certain set of because they have a good faith different view about how to solve that problem and that's colored walls them to do and that you can kind of predict of someone who espouses a particular point of view

where he or she may fall on those kinds of out controversy over decisions but not necessarily because of their partisan stripe or who appointed them but rather what that philosophy is you know i will say at the trial level because we're deciding cases on the basis of president is authoritative we have to follow in the district of kansas we have to follow through at the ruins of the tenth circuit court of appeals and of course we all have to follow the rulings of the supreme court i would venture to say and there are six acting district judge is and what rate four senior judges and we've been appointed by everyone grew from and gerald ford reagan reagan through trump our court and if you were to read our decisions if you're related now let's just say on the same same place if we all wrote a decision in the same case i would say and probably more than ninety five percent of those cases you couldn't say oh that's right that's robinson or a matter that's been on strike i don't think it probably could ever do it actually

because it's going to be very much the same we're doing our best to apply the president the authority that we have to follow and when they ride it a little differently some of the analysis may be different but by and large the decision to be the same thank you we get to say thank you so very much want a wonderful crowds and as you've just heard the dole institute of politics constitution day program featuring chief judge julie robinson and senior judge john one strum both of the us district for kansas and steve mcallister us attorney for the district in kansas this event marked the one hundred fiftieth anniversary of the fourteenth amendment and was the thirteenth annual constitution day program at the dole institute i'm kate mcintyre coming up and kbr present my fellow

kansans takes us one step closer to the november race for kansas governor that's just ahead right after that from the university of kansas this is kansas public radio we're ninety one five lawrence and ninety one three junction city were unaware that kansas public radio dot org support for k pr prisons on kansas public radio comes from the leed center hosting kibbutz contemporary dance company from israel performing horses in the sky monday night october twenty ninth seven thirty pm tickets available at lead that hey you that ed you come dance the night away saturday night december eighth at liberty hall it's kbr is the big band christmas our annual holiday party with big band standards and christmas favorites played by the kc jazz orchestra sponsored this year by dr stephen h canister db's healing smiles of topeka saturday december eighth at eight o'clock pm

see there kansans will elect a new governor next month and many analysts are calling this election a referendum on the brownback ears for the rest of this hour my fellow kansans takes a look at the brownback administration and how it continues to shape kansas politics today support for my fellow kansans and the following message comes from the kansas leadership center publisher of the kale see journals twenty eighteen election issues edition available october fifth at k l c journal dot com amazon and watermark bucks kansas leadership center inspiration for the common good a great pleasure and honor mine serve people city kansas in various capacities for over thirty years i've loved the time from the state of the state and the audience just he had been agriculture secretary congressman senator but when sam brownback capture the governor's office in twenty ten he has even bigger plans plans to transform kansas into a red state model for the nation

but that's not the way things panned out come listen to my story about a man named sam brownback visa income tax got to push for in kansas lawmakers to approve succeeded in making this data model when julie ball because governor brownback like so many republicans refuses to give up on the long discredited is a handyman at a zombie fly of trickle down economics he's less taxes for the wealthy eliminated business taxes that with the state's primary source of revenue and guess what the state lost all its revenue and crash who could've predicted besides everyone re election victory in twenty fourteen is a tax experiment had become the butt of jokes on late night television across the country and he spent much of his second term ranked among the least popular governors in the nation in his political career in ruins brownback accepted a lifeline from the trump

administration but even then vice president mike pence had to cast the tie breaker to get him confirmed as ambassador from religious for more on this so these are forty nine the nays are forty nine the senate being equally divided the vice president votes in the affirmative and the nomination is confirmed i'm jim mclean and this is my fellow kansans podcast from the kansas concerns sam brownback has left the buildings in his shadow still hangs over kansas politics and definitely this year's governor's race governor brownback once said that kansas doesn't have miles are oceans so we need these tax experiment weekend he year's taxes which i want to dig the metal my top priorities i'm going to cut spending that is the mistake of the brownback administration on this episode of my fellow kansans will continue our

examination of the people and events that triggered a turn to the right in kansas with a look back at the sam brownback one of if not the key player in that transformation will cover brownback ascension to the top of the figurehead of the christian right its campaign to consolidate so we heard the legislature in twenty twelve for the anti brownback global stage by voters in twenty sixteen from an early age it was clear that sam brownback had ambition the kind of successful politicians just about half to have was nervous and produced for his nineteen ninety six campaign for the us senate he's all cancers raised on a kansas bar still awfully state president of the fifa president a state student body president to visit a new law caps kansas secretary of agriculture chosen as a white house fellow

congressman sam brownback for the us senate signs of ambition through and through write a steady and purposeful trajectory toward politics if there'd been any future governors of kansas may be presidents and brownback might well be president of that two hundred thousand sex brownback was a senator making a presidential bid had gotten a profile in rolling stone magazine the magazine describe around that initial foray into elective politics this way he squeaked into congress running as a moderate but in washington in the midst of the gingrich revolution brownback didn't just tack right he unzipped his quiet kansan custom and step down as the leader of the new federalist a small but potent faction of freshmen are determined to get rid of government almost entirely when he discovered that the republican leadership wasn't really interested in derailing it's all gravy train

brownback began spending more time with his bible he began to suspect that the problem with government wasn't just too many taxes in it was not enough next election to congress coincided with another big event in his life one that according to those close to him fundamentally changed his purpose it started he says with a stranger on his right side of melanoma are diagnosed in nineteen ninety five ron let's talk about is purification through cancer the rolling stone article that doctors go got a piece of his flesh brownback says as of murmuring to himself a minor procedure but it scared him in his mind he lost hold of everything he asked himself what about done with my wife the answer seemed to be no one night while his family was sleeping brownback got up and pulled out a copy of his resume

sitting in a silent house in the middle of the night a scar over israel's where cancer had been carved out of his body he looked down at the piece of paper his work the last year passed this must be who i am then he realized nothing he had done with you ask all his accomplishments were humdrum conservative measures and bureaucratic wrangling legislation that had nothing to do with god they were worth nothing brownback turns holds my gaze so he says bye birdie he smiles he pauses he's waiting to see if i understand he had clinched himself with fire he had made himself pure i'm a child of the living god he explains i'm not you are to recess that spiritual awakening seemed to dr brown that's politics during his

fourteen years in the us senate he earned a reputation for the nation's preeminent social conservatives and i'm introducing today along with thirty co sponsors of the bill called the unborn child pain awareness second quarter were issues like abortion same sex marriage but the best the optimal setting is in the union between a man and woman wanda together for life and a child children raised in that setting an asset that we got social data on but we also know that your hearts brioche and other less partisan fights human trafficking and the genocide in dar for my comedy in pro life and whole life the child alone the sacred challenge our forest it was that reputation that brownback hoped would help him stand out in the crowded race for the two thousand eight republican presidential nomination i'm sam brownback we need your help we are moving forward in iowa we did very well in ames iowa the straw poll finishing third there i wanna move out on forward in the caucuses and pushing a strong set of values as their

own back and high hopes and i was running against mike huckabee mitt romney john mccain and others the time was right for his brand of conservatism if these ideas are your ideas help me out we need it not enough to be able to raise enough money to be competitive brownback dropped out of the race three months before the caucuses and set his sights instead on winning the kansas governor's office in twenty ten one that reason he's going to come home and little known democratic state senator from bolton said it this is really big night a clean sweep for a new beginning know mr obama won a latin our word is holding down taxes holding down regulations controlling spending outside around barry lee says brownback got right to work on his red state model he privatized medicaid welfare and food stamps harder to get

he said to break people's dependence on government and in twenty twelve he pushed lawmakers to approve deep cuts in individual and business income taxes saying it would jumpstart the kansas economy a shot of adrenaline we cut taxes we went to see a run on a law say it's a best pass through income so anybody interested in moving to kansas and the kansas better than texas on small business turnaround troubles the country's power utility commission says there is describing it to a conservative group in new york this is a red state long we've got strong family issues i signed six pro life bills that have come forward will be the best in america's critical point where will be the best at america to raise a family in a gross small business and were moving fast that what i needed was the monell center said okay we need to raise taxes to pay more for public sector things we need to have a bigger government to take care of the war the

problems to me it's a fascinating time in us history because normally the country camera tracks one where tracks another now you got it going to waste fast i think it changed america by changing states by proven that jamal works a new model for growth a new novel for opportunity and a new model for helping people the nation was watching to see whether his supply side experiment would succeed where others have failed and brownback was writing why he had gotten his tax cuts but it wasn't easy he had to maneuver road and not a moderate republicans in the kansas senate leader grower were wherever they are and where you're going the details the moderates led by senate president steve morris warned that cutting taxes will rex the state budget an alarm what we want to do they want a base to do with intent and we were still just don't know the recession two thousand that

we can do that or were still trying to get it into the water conservatives managed to get legislation brownback wanted to the florist bills funding the march to zero income taxes but the senate voted it down the old were killed until those presiding an assistant to millions of years of loneliness spoken so that was the stark simply under our rules we could reconsider any famous poster children to reporters brownback said he wanted the chance for compromise and the tax cuts for that even be possible the senate had to pass the bill and send back to the house so that would be something to negotiate that more credence than the governor morris agreed to bring legislation to the floor sylvia christen with you understand though it offers no years of its existence in the coffers and that's what brought us

tax reduction brownback and his allies in the house refused to negotiate a compromise emerged as a russian into the buildings are back and assured morris would never become law through the house that's what we was doing we like to assist others in america that's how that became law and of course he cited the next year managing the comedy works brownback the kansas chamber and other groups tied wichita's powerful koch brothers didn't want a faction of moderate republican senators blocking their agenda so they went after them in what came to be known as the twenty twelve perch we considered ourselves moritz twenty one races in the last sixteen of those races morris was among the casualties and we were sort of steam rolled it during a kansas chamber and koch related entities such as

americans for prosperity and good for growth and they set up a huge number of mailings the last three weeks campaign news a couple a day and very negative very now truthful welcome to another episode of where in the world is steve morris i'm your host johnny do for seven or foreign minister have to say they seem to get a free trip to china jennifer you're our big winner thanks to steve morris you get higher taxes and fewer jobs for they voted against the project of london and treasure as a soviet steamer last for the purge coincided with a huge political scientist patrick miller's arrival in the state you have a state legislature there had been under republican control well you slice and dice the politics of it the democrats any or moderate republicans are often typically the

majority and could pass legislation that they wanted if they came together on a particular issue or could could stop legislation so you really have this period of the senate the house the governorship being under clear conservative control and then really been being able to advance their agenda for the first time in a very long time in your honor we go back and think of historically we thought of sam brownback youth of socially conservative politics you thought of abortion and gay rights religious issues human rights to an extent had worked on that a little bit in the senate he didn't think of someone who was die hard economic issues a circle he was economically conservative and he when he becomes governor and the economic issues come a lot more to to the forefront and i think part of that just comes with the office

of governor has a lot of power over fiscal economic and spending issues that a senator is just one of one hundred people does not happen is sam brownback haven't president we might see more of this come out you still perceive it's also for himself as a potential presidential contender that maybe did maybe didn't the people thought of him as well but he had run for president two thousand eight montgomery well and then there was talk again how trudy knows that if you came back to kansas and this red state model was affective that he could be someone who we can look at as a possible presidential candidate that was the architecture he was envisioning that he would come back to campus which is relatively speaking a pretty small political playground and a place with which he was familiar and a place out the economy wasn't doing that well the state wasn't growing as so he was going to really make it in this republican red state image and that was to be a shining example of the effectiveness of the policies and that would then propel

him back to national prominence was that the thought process do you think i think it's the thought process that a lot of people projected onto it and that may or may not have been his own thought process and he never came out and said this would be successful and then i can have a president again that narrative was out there but also after two thousand ten republicans really coming to an unprecedented level of control of states they hadn't seen across not as kansas and across the country and the koch brothers and other republican super rich donors have played a huge role that we started to see super pacs come out we started to see these billionaire donors really invest a lot and state politics so there are a lot of republican governors few words experimenting with policy in their own way it's a brand that really stands out the most on taxes of a brand that was not alone in that so but shortly after you got here we we had the twenty fourteen election

paul davis vowed alleges that are from ours see a democratic leader in the kansas house challenge the sitting republican governor and came very close to being you know why was brownback all the sudden politically vulnerable yet there are a few republican governors that year and mary fallin in oklahoma right in store for example who had implemented some of these major policy changes and again go the way that they were supposed to go so even in a good republican year there were a few of these republican governors who had experience blowback or negative policy consequences of the changes implemented and found themselves an unusually competitive race and was among especially among those so by two thousand fourteen we had another tax cuts have been implemented and revenue had fallen quite dramatically in and it seemed like we were in just a custom budget crisis and the twenty sixteen kansans we're really feeling it and letting their lawmakers know at that caught conservative state senator for stocks off guard during an early campaign swing in southeast kansas that

year i didn't realize in a few minutes out in western kansas people were selling on the governor and his allies in the legislature to people like robin lord iq after forty five years was just retiring from her job as a public school teacher in yuma since she was a registered republican and had once voted for brownback which she was regretting it well i think people are starting to realize that education isn't being funded like it should be and i think with that threat that schools my clothes

that's quake and a few people out because enough schools don't open then parents have no place for their children to go while they're working it is was dc we could've run a deficit again patrick miller brownback wouldn't have all the negative headlines anakin and the various cuts to education or transportation or other programs that i think a lot of people felt very hard in different communities and how legislative victories horace that thanks to robert brom next tenure had wrought shrinking school budgets canceled road projects and limits on health care and they topple a third of the conservatives in the legislature kansas appeared was swinging back to the center having unseated an incumbent member of the house in the gop

primary to a coast to describe the kansas city star the centrist coalition we really want to get it right in june of twenty seventeen with the session in overtime and lawmakers are wrangling with how to solve a billion dollar budget crisis that newly built a coalition of moderate republicans and democrats will be repealed sam brownback signature tax cuts he denied it and within the past few minutes kansas lawmakers approved a massive tax increase the governor's veto approving a major tax increase live at the statehouse now it's been an emotional night for the bittersweet i don't want the bill will we have to move forward as a statement saying tonight and audacity and so i think it's a very exciting that kansas's attorney

that's all but haskins is really turned that page is it threatening back to its interest rates what's next time on my fellow kansans my fellow kansans is a production of the kansas news service a collaboration of public radio stations across the state the podcast has written and reported by jim mclean edited by amy jeffries and mixed by matthew on middleton production team includes bath go away nadia fall scott cannon and me raise lots primary color music composed our theme thanks to tease you lars von jones for narrating jeff charlotte rolling stone article got senator thank goodness for c span our source for archival audio in this episode ken this new service statehouse reporter stephen koranda contributed audio so it can just use service fellow you mean the geordie special thanks to new careers

of npr and he endured training team if you liked this episode and leave us a review it helps other people find our podcast you can follow us on facebook and twitter at k s news service you've been listening to my fellow kansans on k pr presents i'm kay mcintyre kbr present as a production of kansas public radio at the university of kansas that's the model a summary of liberty hall with a pr band christmas it's our annual holiday party with big band standards of christmas favorites cleveland casey jazz orchestra and singer molly hammer get your tickets now the liberty or box elders and ticketmaster and be sure to join as december eighth thirty pm it's b