An hour with David Mindich

from forum hall at the kansas state student union k pr prisons and i worked with david mandates i'm kay macintyre david manages the author of tuned out why americans under forty don't follow the news in its berth and it argues that with more and more young people turn their backs on political news american democracy is heading toward a crisis manager is a journalism professor at st michael's college in court chester vermont before that he worked as an assignment editor at cnn his appearances part of kansas state's new douglas lecture series on public issues co sponsored by the us and community learning center in kansas state a q miller school of journalism and mass communication and now here thank you i'm a lot on that are invited to give the limit douglas letter top song for the invitation only of your family universally long as my hosts year

it's been a great day and going to classes and really extraordinary as well because in addition to talking for about half are forty five minutes about why americans are generally young americans who've fallen news i'm also going to be using a word that you don't usually years are usually hear lectures likeness and alone the workbook it's so bear with me my apologies were the crisis alm that's for sure our earlier this year one of the biggest newspaper chains knight ridder there was only one bidder ong and then mcclatchy who walk be our region on didn't

wanted touch some of the most respected a lot of newspapers in the country on errands rolling that story is a story of our old friend of mine who's ten years younger than i am i'm forty three issues thirty three and she went from new york and moved to aung san jose california and she met lots of people are aung she met people who share her interest in knitting are interested in political issues and she met friends who shared her various topics she didn't meet them at all through the newspaper she met him all through new guesses from young people new orleans craigslist own jet to convince some of them that she didn't want to comment we all watch over that hurdle oh she oh she met a lot of interesting people

coincidentally one of those newspapers or for sale was the san jose mercury news and it lost maybe not coincidentally tens of millions of dollars in advertising budget their american art of money especially in the classifieds so we know that there's a big ball a big issue there on one of the big issues relates to the four letter word freak which isn't the airport and thinking oh well the free content on the internet is compromising on the heat content on newspapers one of the oddest indicators of a huge change in journalism was a visit by jon stewart the anchor of the daily show crossfire right and you saw jon stewart's visit to cross for

return and our navy saddam actually happened new few people so mainly it was so we place on the internet where does remember what jon stewart's of the lacrosse where people use a stop you're hurting america and it's not surprising that the cnn bigwigs would have taken that seriously as they were celebrating over jon stewart's demographics but what is surprising is that jonathan klein the president of cnn stood up at a press conference and said i agree wholeheartedly with jon stewart's basic premise and canceling crossfire which is no an amazing post modern moment in which bach comedian cancels a new show up so worried about this trend i traveled

all over the country on and speaking with people from age is about thirteen to thirty six i've gone to california connecticut georgia indiana louisiana massachusetts north carolina minnesota new hampshire new york pennsylvania vermont and washington state and speaking with small groups and in large groups with individuals and groups like this they also met with journalists why went to the us or tuition a marketing department of the new york times and i spoke with them about how to market the new york times to young people is right after the movie sideways to just come out on video so sideways do they want to know about the images of the new york times as depicted in saudi it's what i remember the new york times but then i

thought you know they said oh yeah i remember when the waters sail from fruit no flavor latte on and then your torrents on that served as the new york times that kind of publication that people associate with flavored coffee i said yeah in a video thing is a huge roll around great doing the crossword puzzle lawyers in the car so maybe that connotes a little feature or six years i don't own but then i met with a group of journalists about twenty journalists in europe city and it was the president of cnn the president of cbs news managing editors of the new york times the wall street journal these top team was almost sitting around the table trying to figure out how to get what you guys interested in one's

own and to show what a panic they weren't they also the twenty something water and the place of the water whenever they were talking the back and say you're no use to her so we know that they were in trouble at the news executives or arm or so fruitful and i'm less interested in what this war means for the business of journalism is that something that the news executives can think about what i'm more interested in what this all means for democracy everyone agrees that all power all political power needs to be checked i think the conservative republicans the room feel or

democratic power should go check and the liberal democrats also would agree that local conservative republican should be checked and who checks the power well or governments set off there's a system of checks and balances on congress checked the presidency although i think that andrew agree that the congress is less of a czech composer jule power walk in recent years the supremes have been somewhat of a church or maybe less so are in recent years so who is the ultimate check on power whether it's democratic republic of power it's not you and me in foreign oil boy groups and for us we have to

go our stake in the government as a kind of whoosh of state state our living area a small town on the border city of vermonters oh oh and down the down the highway so cynical montpelier which is the capital of ramallah see only state capital without adults come from a prior loan and it's the only state capital building without a security guard checked a you know you're a european so walking with my son a few years back he was seven years old the time and i wanna show on the capitol building in montpelier and he's holding man rule titans versus hispanic i want to ask you i don't think we should be in here now yes ok to come and you know said no normal which appears that but it's ok all ask someone

so we go over the goal on the guard to rig over to dr this twenty something your easel a legislator or disobeyed i'm not sure is walking down the stack of papers the whole reason my son and i were no support to be here and he said something that really beautiful use a coarse you can be here it's your house and i mean i think it's really beautiful song as a repeat the story a word over again to stress to appreciate the beauty as well on what is that kind of ownership in our government and our country that we need to cultivate and i would argue is absent in america to get solid to make six points today on the first point i'd like to make is that most young people not all most young people or more true than most of us can imagine in nineteen seventy

to have a whole college age students apple college age of merchants reading newspaper every day today as wanting to talk and that's not really that important issue because in college universe the college was born like in high school maybe are not fully invested in society but the real issue is that twenty somethings and forty somethings are whole museum on a nineteen seventy to seventy five percent of people in their mid thirties read a newspaper every day to day it's only for a wide support and war turns out that the news is one of those habits a huge coal to the world we were never called to the ruble a few years ago the new yorker writer rhode island asked the question why am i still listen to the

same music i was listening to when i was twenty well just listen to the same seventies music of yours listening to all these listen to it now the same sun has been listening to in the nineteen seventies and on many of you were yeah my parents are not equally good in me ong habit of listening to the same music that they listen to in the seventies and maybe your parents are equally troubled by the thought that maybe you're still listened to the same music you're listening to now right so equal marriage and when you chose generation oh but on he came to the conclusion that music is one of those habits and pick up oil rich ones we never become a soak up an eclectic habit you might still remain eclectic over the course to worry if you're only insured and top forty well we know that there are seven

stations all in play like the top forty stuff in the seventies right so we know that that's true he recently he also looked at two other habits one was sushi eating their job and picked up that habit of eating sushi well or your mid twenties you probably won't anecdotally i'm not sure that's true but the other one is on body piercing your ears look like the other parts of your body and so if you haven't here's the other parts of your body and you needed to twenty five the chances are in want according to this research not only speak about those other body parts of this issue of music but i do know that that news appears to be a habit that you need to pick up a young were you know a couple months or if you're thirty five you're not following the news you're entering the period of your life which you what you wanting the country right you're entering europe decades of fear heightened political power

economic power which you're entering those decades and you were not informed were in big trouble was a median viewer age of the evening news or ten years ago it was shifty morning guest workers to learn fifty five that's a pretty good guess sixty or expands on the new show but typically it's about sixty years old and if you don't believe me turn on the news the evening news' he curriculum home in the next few weeks some point when the watched the news watch the commercials buy agra fix events metamucil depends where it's true really burned if you look at these commercials one thing they get to know that advertisers is they tried to reach the

youngest segment of the ordinance wait because off my now nine year old house and sworn his lifelong allegiance to coke or pepsi so they're trying to get him now i i already know one pungent write most of your decided call or pepsi or new that right so the soft drink companies can't get you anymore our own so you're always trying to reach the younger segment so for advertising revenue so i'm fixin the chances are virtual room along ok and so the thing is there are a lot of news executives really don't understand that people organize store arm giving listeners haven't bought a few a rare few do one is a guy named richard several years ahead of the bbc he said recently

one statistic that keeps me away from it we've been talking for a long time about the problem of getting people under twenty five to watch more news so we decided to see what happened as they get older they don't watch there's a generation growing older which just doesn't sit down and watch the news as the parents do i see this as a time well beyond barro emily shows hello theater people only want to talk about what i'm doing both parties the person this is all there are in the newspaper there watching tv news myrtle meeting the region reason why actually they're just getting into the internet and there are many people and there might be many people in this room who have a really deep on understanding of news and politics are derived from the internet and the internet is the greatest source of all time for

news if you want to live in the wrong the russian or studies dolphin intelligence and you know you can get all the information a russian studies of dolphin intelligence that you want aren't on and although the information you want about the news from cyprus on so you can do deep go why we're going out on the internet a pro knows that for many young people on facebook in my space own dominate the true experience well how many it's a messenger all entertainment news friends maybe some class work well or doesn't go really beyond that so that we don't see the knowledge gap closing between the people who were older and people remember so in two thousand and four americans were asked the question you happen to know a democratic

presidential candidate who was a general and a thirteen percent of young people knew of what was wesley clark and about forty percent of former soldiers as gap that is white and in the sixties and seventies all young people knew almost as much as the rumors now that gap has widened despite theater why does this matter well on if you're not informed people will pay attention they vote against their economic interests understand that thomas frank came by and discussed this very issue on they make choices based on patriotism or played notions of who's told her accent was a lot slimmer was tall who should carry kerry's talks will or your own

my interview guards to show aaron's long believe that children should be wet a heart to a three people know they go whoa really there was a social research low so you know so we all agreed the children should not be left behind right on how many people are against clear skies same person their own so we can agree that were in favor clear skies and not having children being left behind what we think about the clear skies initiative what we think about no child left behind you know it may be that we agree or disagree but we obviously if they can all agree democrats and republicans that we want or use based not on slogans which

oh move over you see two oil well you know to have a knee jerk reaction to what you think about the death tax know things like that we all know we need to be almost slogans that have enough information home to make its usual the second one i wanna make his is not the fault exclusively of young people where the media aren't those of us who were in the room now or professors and teachers on but i think that all agree that you know you can keep an open mind we will be continually you're at or near astounded by the intelligence thoughtfulness five to listen to students and that's why i teach there's no excuse me on that always keeps me reinvigorated hopeful for the future well not

everybody is dazzling my own but enough people to convince me that the reason why people are tuning out it's not because they're dumb so i'd like to reject right right now and they're not watching the news quiz the job market but there's also another argument that people make is it's the fault of the media because the need is you know don't remember long and i think that that argument also has its weaknesses the strength of the argument the best new yorker is that we know that fewer and fewer big corporations control more morbid media that's pay rent we know that the news hole a space for news and a newspaper i'm sure that's also where we often overlook the statehouse reporting your story international news

bureaus or diminishing long and that the news can be driven by corporate interests and political considerations sole that is bad but we also acted knowledge that really good reporting happens every day in every city alum and that we can get a reasonable view of what's going on by reading the wall street journal the new york times watching the bbc and if you're choosing from all the reputable news sources on there's a lot out there left of center one of center websites and news organizations that we can get a lot of news years in fact the rich we're not doing that for many western todd doesn't permit me to go into on this in great detail but like their points of entertainment entertainment and surely a corporate

on we've always been more entranced wire and containers then why are politicians twenty years ago americans were asked how many of the three stooges they could name and are fifty seven percent could name free for more icing or more conservators shep and crew joe wright and large curly moe on only seventy percent could name three or more of the supreme court justices so we have a definite disconnect here in my own our research i asked young people around the country ninety six percent could name alicia keys singer thirty percent could name one or more supreme court justices seven percent could name all three countries veteran the axis of evil

and that was george bush's all description o or an iraqi and north korea three important countries to know what are the acts of you or oh in nineteen sixty eight walter cronkite gave his famous remark that we're wired and stalemate in vietnam in earlier this year he made a similar remark about iraq how many people are complex remarks about iran only a few people and why is that well the quick answer is walter cronkite doesn't have his job right so when he says something no one really cares but the other answer is that nobody has walter cronkite stop we think about our age it's not marked by or attention to

big issues of the day or ages and when one more boy or inattention to these issues maybe katrina and my level of the examples or the counter examples but we can't focus as much as we used to own a nineteen seventies six percent of sixth graders ayatollah regions in their own room with her sixth grader oh now we saw about eighty percent eighty percent of sixth graders today at their tvs and their own room and that means they're probably not watching you and katie couric isn't just engineers june sixth grader calling not you know up in a room alone watching tv or her own so people are not watching aren't watching movies

as much like for the point is that when news tries to entertain entertainment it loses every torre dan rather mit to do something radical one use computers jennings and brokaw the truck wearing a sweater with associating tom moon listen it's hard to imagine our own people with other would write about always wearing sweaters were you see pandering to his audience here oh but now it would be laughable if he'd heard while he does make some fashion choices based our email anchors and compete with her but along the choices do not include choice that would compete with victoria sinclair was a white lawyer the tara

sinclair is the anchor of me to news dot com which it takes off her clothes while she's telling the news we're alone now it's really good the dan rather didn't try to compete with victoria sinclair we're still working for a one to receive your own work the real reason is that you know we needed our journalists clothes for battle when you are journalists to protect us long and we you know naked news use a show dog on a watchdog and were hoping for journalists who really protect our interests we now have a home a situation where nor were just competing against this news just convenience news was competing against oz and millions of entertainment options competing insecure fact right recent episode was

what your drummer for episode for pak to review the last episode that i saw your your social was alone two people were competing on fear factor that had a bold dog embryos and put in a blender or a service block embryos soup and two people competed in and see this episode oh yeah so these two people were competing to see who could drink but the embryos the courts i remembered it catapult off the side of the building on a bungee jumping it in hong they weren't there the women weren't unusual i mention this because i watched i was engaged in i was watching cnn this is the universe that were all

competing muses computer and stay pure fat and the congress so what we do home yogi berra once said that dance don't come out to the ballpark he can't stop so what what we do hold back in this is the war that we can we can change the way journalism acts you can change the focus of journalists one of things and so that use your broadcast think it's only broadcast we can re introduced passion into the news on what's been said about fox news and about fox news is very right wing and that's what successful i think that that's partly true but they've won things we should give fox news even people who are not

sympathetic to it was sometimes a passion gets in the way of the fact that were later sometimes own some of its practices what war npr news west or think we can acknowledge but fox news very political people seem to care about politics especially and i think that that's very important that we have to care again about politics we're rich american tradition of caring about politics in our prayers and on the left alone tomorrow people are in jon stewart also a passionate raw politics may also get sort of voices i think that jon stewart show is popular in part because it's funny but also because it's this song brick

political and cares a lot about a couple tips one of things that we should acknowledge is there a good story well told will always pull people and so i think that those of us who were affiliated with journalism schools journalism programs have to really remember the bats the brass ring to get more people by telling important stories well told on and that will always attract the least some points and it would offer more roadmap certain words so for example on when westerns once said that falling news was like entering a math class a semester we need to help that student who wants to join the

news but when he opens the newspaper its conduct in the cycle so as journalists those of us who do journalism we should pay more attention to the casual reader who wants to introduce fill but the most important lesson i think in changing journalism is that we shouldn't talk down to readers is i think the most important lesson of the most important thing that that news executives don't get so for example when cnn pulled out four hours of its nightly programming on headlines pulled out the new stop and made way for nancy grace and showbiz tonight that's bet all of that i was able to when i met

john start jonathan klein i said that to ensure equal going to stop hurting america don't worry the city owned and i said to him that all i heard some of my students are white color every once a while on a weekend whatever trick i heard that right i told was that to jordan or less at every once awhile so westerns like never drink and one the drinks that that oh who's over the twenty ones just explain what on on the cynical joke shop steward sorry i heard so i said to jonathan klein i have this idea of our reunion jello shots into my

classroom and rick you look more groceries you're on and i said no no i'm joking right but my point is that most of my students would be horrified if i actually would bring in george johnson my cause i'm a be horrified for true reasons least two years but the first reason is it also forty something year old guy with a y know about how wright joe joe joe but the second reason is they don't come to the classroom to have a drink right if you're a young person you won't you might have a party saw it and it might have a serious side an almost everyone that's right it's the people who don't have all those things and that's just in georgia but it's it's the people who are in trouble and the people who don't have a party aside or don't have a serious

upgrade so in the same way the tv news people should not be drawn a mix of jello shots nancy groups showbiz tonight for their audience what they need to be doing is being being the classroom of in the universe they need to be a place in the new universe where people come to be elevated or people come to see important things or people come to hold leaders accountable to serve them to be more powerful systems and that's the thing that media executives are just not getting oh and we see the success of the new york times the success of the wall street journal the success of in your the new yorker these big

very well produced publications are doing as was up my six point is the armed education is a real was what six the final point education is a real important part of that song this picture a lot of news executives say what can i do in the newsroom to bring young people back and i think the answer is it can't do it alone i was an oral and someone like trips was an oral and submitting with the group both african american middle school students all in eighth grade or boy speakers words of boys catholic school all the families were below the poverty line and i ask them who is the secretary of state and one of them served donald rumsfeld said no

let's close it you know rumsfeld is you know an eighth grader known what the gross host a lot more like other repressive so he's a lawyer your nordstrom reading your total oneness of wow what you read your time someone he said my teacher when i was in sixth grade after stewart on someone and the six other kids who are severe room table or the us so it turns out that if you do people the assignment and given the expectation that they should read the news it's all the news and then new inch ensure that your schools or politically why are you bringing politicians are maneuvering this year encouraging students to go out to their neighbors and change their neighbors turns out that people start calling news even at a really young age was i

proposed along an article about your half ago that every college bound high school senior should be given us civics city just warned the apple one where all and the idea would be that you'd be asked a few questions about you know which party controls the house or the senate which of the koreas is the bed korea and questions like that you know we ask where's our people won become citizens to work take a civic says why not give it to all eating rules we won't keep you all know you well but maybe colleges could notice the college's code could notice something with long in the last forty years civic engagement has declined in america the one counter example to

that is that high school kids and college students volunteer more and i met with a group of students at brandeis university and no outside of boston and i suppose this conundrum to them and one guy in the back said what i want a long term national honor society that's what we want to do to get into college research you're so cynical how old are you know oh what at first i was really depressed what was cynical world war what a lot of people were saying yeah that's why we do it and it's not necessarily depressing because that means that maybe weakened socially engineer all kinds of good behavior maybe we can expect that people will change something in a community but there is one line in a college application what have you want to change something

politically in your community just a little lot isn't enough to be an important for a creature him aw coraline like you know how when you read the newspaper people would start reading in high school maybe you'd say for the wrong reasons but i do think that there are things that we can we can do in our schools we can do in our schools is media literacy people talk about how bad the mediators and maybe what high schools were they drum this into all where they say look the media is terrible on look at the advertising messages of what they do the women's body image and that's certainly the important point to tij to talk about but there's also a counterpoint to that look at all the things that the mainstream media have done to hold leaders accountable but all the things that the mainstream media are going to

want to help us to become more powerful systems trust in the media has gone down weston years trust in the military was born in western ears and i think that we have to distrust the media to some extent but i think that we have to trust the military to some extent but what happens when our trust in the media gets below or trust in the government that means that our watch those are less trusted then people look at former watch and i think that's dangerous so we need to for him new intros finally to conclude ayotte columbia university professor james that we've carried bought last year one said that the purpose of journalism is

to make sure that we don't get screwed and i think it's actually the best definition of over her own it's all about democracy all without an informed citizenry as a check on power leaders to outrageous things every time without that knowledge or young people you're political power to their elders in the perfect example of that was about six months ago congress really works if you're a student of a student loan you will be paying potentially thousands maybe even tens of thousands of dollars more over the course you weren't so congress passed the law raising the interest rates for your student loans what i pick on

whether they go for you rather than social security why do they pick on you well if this midterm elections any past midterm elections any god for this midterm election sixteen percent of your age group will vote if only one out of six of you vote and only one out of longing for a father who are following newspaper following the news well with a typical could pick on you so it's about it's about her self interest is about becoming powerful citizens who can hold leaders accountable and that got the daily show's is really great on this every day jon stewart is holding leaders accountable and funny but yet forceful

way all and the daily show is not alone in its daily show relies on the mainstream media to fuel its holding leaders accountable so the government doesn't want you know about abu ghraib prison which americans abused iraqis many of whom were proven by the government to finance the government doesn't want to know what the mainstream media reporter on your left or center near cause the writer center wall street journal both report on issues like this well this is sort of this is what it's about contrasting what a leader says with the facts as we know them contrasting what a leader says

with the with what the leaders said two years ago says what the daily show is all about this is what the mainstream me you know or should be about and sometimes is bowed out that we have a power vacuum and here is where the f word comes in as farms without a check on power when elections are swayed by slogans and very patriotic notions the seeds are planted for years the uk for russia's i'm not saying that the us is a fascist country but i am saying that the absence of checks and balances means that fascism seeds could one day be planted in the future president of why college on off and service that we're one generation away from farmers that nazi germany was a good proof of that they you know

the generation before nazi germany they were not party are right we're always one generation away from borders sergeant day o'connor republican appointed a supreme court justice said it takes a lot of degeneration before a country falls into dictatorship but we should avoid these ends by avoiding these endings couldn't really get so bad here couldn't we have we arm or on chuck carr well i think that those of us were following news last few months storage or much interest since the weekend administration previous quarter for the first time in a long time the right to travel not only people that the president can designate as enemy combatants

but really the president can designate really not only no foreign terrorists but anyone who's not a us citizen and does that mean that there is another terrorist attack that the president the future president whether democratic or republican could start designating americans as enemy combatants it may have been known are not telling you today i'm not saying that suspending tv is corporate citizen that then i saw my job at martin reports a year when jobs to say that the discussion has to be had and we have government information to make that decision so that you can be political power it's been said that america is a system designed by geniuses be run by idiots but i don't think this is

entirely true the constitution does provide checks and balances so says while politicians but there is no check in the constitution the constitution to wallace beautiful pages in person has news no check against the warmth term neglect by the people themselves and we need to hold their leaders accountable oh and we use to do so why i believe that our democracy depends on a sultry question to go the peak questions for use your

remarks on the publisher's were american or even all these ought to do you call him on how americans local civic engagement how it compares to other developed countries within the world yeah that's a great question and all so when we know that the civic engagement on a look at news features and political knowledge we know anecdotally we hear from people who come abroad so broadly in europe a lot of people were saying well you know the people i spoke to in his german wine bar you run run run so i didn't know and i'm an american so i had to go back in our research are so we know that the arms that for many europeans college students unlike many college students who

come home or even political discussion goes the only just right oh this is like you know favorite sport among many europeans are fighting over you know political issues and talk about american foreign policy and stuff like that so so certainly our little interest in most european countries is much higher rate announcers that's also declined along with the newspaper what really does trigger germany even though it's declining it's declined to power in a nineteen sixties loan which the senator declined to forty thousand sex lure home to much more so on so there still war and huge bomb i think setting conditions hard to george i know that you know the civil war we are cynically young people are wars sibling or if you exclude

politics vaughters groups which is great and there's nothing better than seeing someone who's done a lot of volunteer work or tourist from graves suddenly the label goes all all on top of this is are saying oh wait now i understand the political underpinnings of this social problem and i understand that there's also tax law i am not a question of working on out uses that incorporates civic engagement to college votes it all and i was wondering it but researcher don shows largest and the earlier levels that's called lovell and i'm wondering if that to a purple suits to wake up call holes to really get that but you're talking about going to get into that no i think it anecdotally of them have heard a lot of people say that your first job out of college

in the past people say in an older news executives are slogans and all ye there are two now but once they get their first job they will we get a first job or twenty three years old we get their first great job or get married will be twenty three will get married it was the first she had a twenty four unit that's because older or you know win young people get their first job spouse and good but that's actually not it's actually older than remembering your typical tourist are real good job to late ones you moved out of her family's house a little bit later and you moved to a new kind of kids a little bit later so that's been creeping up over last forty years why worry supported for years

oh it's back up beyond the college years those first of course groucho your spouse and kids in the house it has a point so i think it's that there's a magic number on all the numbers there's some magical moment for most people that were mainly a warning our adolescence beyond that so when the law well it went to one other thing though if you drop back draft that when newly interest increases interest along too and some of the lowest when i mention that well for a lot

of people particularly on where our across the political spectrum if you live on the greenback there would be long former oh six year old you know certain worry about the draft coming back but that you could argue that maybe less likely to get any worse you don't know you can make the argument that the reason why there are not protests in the streets of iraq is because unlike protests since troops in vietnam her own there's no consequence for most college towns saw be regularly questions recorded october twenty for the two thousand six at form

hall in the kansas state student union he spoke as part of the lute douglas lecture series on public issues co sponsored by the us and community learning center in kansas state's school of journalism and mass communication the recording engineer with kent nelson's i'm j mcintyre keep your present is a production of kansas public radio at the university of kansas