The Creative Mind; 106; Jon Jang

I know some people have really good rhythm. Some people can sing. Some people can read fast some people have coordination. Some people have all of that. But I feel that culture everybody plays just like in cool town everybody plays all the instruments and you grow up listening to that music. So the music is not separate from life. You know it's not this. I mean I think there's exceptions of people having exceptional talent. But I feel that it's not that that all or none kind of thing I don't believe that someone has a bad year. You know they just don't listen. You know join me for a conversation with jazz pianist and composer John Jang. I'm Bettina grey. San Francisco is home to more than one hundred and twenty thousand Chinese

Americans. One of the largest communities of Chinese Americans in the country and a wellspring of cultural traditions. John is a Chinese-American pianist composer and bandleader. His music integrates traditional American influences with those of African American jazz. The result has been the formation of a unique and overtly political repertoire that has been called one of the most fertile and creative. As co-founder of improv records one of the only American jazz labels in the United States he has recorded extensively at numerous jazz festivals internationally. It's a pivotal time in a career. He was principal composer for a recent

multicultural collaboration with musicians and poets composition reparations now addresses the internment of Japanese-Americans in camps during World War Two and their fight to win reparations from the United States government. John Jang Zbig band the Pan-Asian artists recently released their critically acclaimed album Never give up. You've been called a political artist is that a terminology you accept yourself. No. Because I think of all artists political and I mean you I think there is a saying in the 70s you're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem. So I feel that music is an expression of my life and participating in music is participating in the solution. Yes I believe so. But how is it that I mean you're an instrumentalist How is it that instrumental

sound is political. How sound it so how can it be political. Well I think that the message and the expression I'm trying to convey is is to express the basic truths of humanity. And I feel that that people you know it's not it's not doesn't have to nestle be a literate kind of thing. But that I think that I feel that that people have senses that that they can really. You know to really bring them to another level by listening by listening. Yes it takes a special kind of listening to be a jazz improvisation is doesn't it. Yes I I think there's been so much emphasis especially in today's society and on the visual aspects that I think that you know what's the sense of of how to listen and in music it's not just listening to yourself but it's it's listening to if you're in a

group whether it's Such as a group or a chamber group is that you're listening to the other musicians and you're interacting with them. So if I if I could say I have a solo passage I can never execute the same song because say if a drummer basis they play it a certain way they played it different tempo different pitches. That's going to affect my solo. Is it desirable for us to listen to each other in that same acute awareness. Well you know when we watch like something like Nightline or you know I see some of the politicians on television everything is so it's written out it's script and then the other thing is that the content isn't. It's not that inspiring. So that America feels very proud of itself. Like say for example when I seen Jesse Jackson

on television he's improvise he don't see a piece of paper. And so that that's I mean on one level that's very inspiring because he's speaking from the heart and from the hearts of you know the American people is that what democracy is. I think it's like I mean everybody plays a leadership role and everybody has to kind of follow which is say it's kind of like following the concept of of listening and improvising. Now this is not like say you know ultra democracy where everybody is equal you know. I heard a quartet It was a quartet of pianists Ricky Ford's a saxophone as Reggie workman basis and he more on drums. And it wasn't a group that featured the saxophone as what most people would think. It's like they would play a composition and then you know you would hear the drummer and the bass player doing kind of a dialogue anymore and Reggie workman and they

would bend the time and and then sometimes Ricky Ford would stand out or sometimes Mel Waldron would pianists. So it's it's a kind of give and take. Well to bring it back for a model in society you are combining Asian music with African American music and improvisation in a new form. What inspired that. Well I think I'd have to go back to 1981 which was the first Asian American jazz festival I think for a long time I had quit music for a while I had been a dedicated student of African American music and European music. But there weren't very many Asian-American models that were doing what I was I was I was doing so at the first Asian-American jazz festival

I saw musicians such as Russell Baba and marquees. And what they were doing on stage was similar to that experience I was talking about with that quartet of Mel Walter and that is the experience you said the experience was similar the experience of other people sharing equally giving and taking. Yeah I think it was the collective improvisation now. Just on that you know the quartet part of it. That was Russell Baba and the late great drummer anymore who was a drummer that I had worked with and with Russell. The thing I really was inspired by him was that he had a very unique sound. It wasn't because it was say a novelty kind of thing it was Asian. But I mean he did include shako Hachi you know the Japanese flute in his presentation but that wasn't that wasn't what really hit me inspire me it was his unique sound.

Haven't you ever fallen in love with the sound surely for the sake of the beauty of the sound. Yes many times. Like I there's so many wonderful moments you can't say there was one say listening to a recording of Duke Ellington black brown and beige with Mahalia Jackson singing Come Sunday. That is beautiful or. Or Eric Dolphy as last day. About a month before he passed away. His rendition of the standard you don't know what love is him performing on flute for myself. The actual experience in performance when I was performing at the Frona Jazz Festival and also the music festival there was a section in reparations now which is for a movement suite that I wrote in which flower is James Newton and I perform a duel. And at the only jazz festival we were inside this castle and I mean he plays like a western flute but he could create sounds and different colors that.

That. Kind of simulated the sound of a Japanese like a shako Hachi. And at the end of this duel there was a set there was a moment of silence and then you could hear the birds chirping. And that was just a great special feeling of resolution. There's a whole religion that believes sound is the basis of reality in the pattern of reality. Well I think many cultures world cultures. I mean music and sound play a very important role. So you're making Asian-American sound. I guess I feel uncomfortable about labels because I am an Asian American I'm Chinese American. And but it's not like we all sound alike you know because first of all sound you know it's not I don't think of it as static. Using it to express what do you want it to do for you or for the audience.

Well I think specifically say for example reparations now. That's actually my real life experiences in the SE redress reparations movement of the 80s. And so that means. Kind of knowing in the community the Japanese-American community and you know knowing the importance of Tycho what it means to the community and also that which is Japanese drums. Yes. And so that's involved in my piece and it's featured a play it's an important role in the community. So knowing those kinds of things and also say for example the last movement the dance talk of Bushie means it's a popular dance. It's a coal miners song. And it's everybody in the community knows a song and dance is it. You dedicated one of your pieces or albums to the Japanese gardener that you worked with to put yourself through school.

It was called a redress blues. And in 1974 a curagh Jackson Cottle that was named the Garter he was the first person that told me about the camps. Why I named the piece redressed blues is because to me a blues it tells a story. What about the story moved you. First of all I never heard about it because during the 70s you know that that's that. It was as if it didn't exist. Yeah I think I was in high school I was going with a Japanese girl and when we when I visit her house there was a kind of a repressed silence that I felt. But and I said what's what's wrong here. Because it's pretty silent you know. He said the camps and I don't really understand what that meant until 1974 when Jackson Cottle told me the story about how his farms and land were taken away

because the camps with his father and him and worked so hard. And so here we were trimming bushes at this mansion in Atherton. And you know so he was telling me the story and what do you think people get the courage to speak out. Well I think that there comes a time when you know yourself as as a human being you know you want you want to be you want respect you know you want to be treated equally. I mean look courage for a lot of Asians to speak out during the 80s during a very conservative period of Reagan and Bush was made even you know more inspiring for myself as an Asian-American. We should be proud of our history that we are made up of people from very you know many different experiences and that you know it's a very rich country. And I think that that you know we talked about say African-American music that is like to me jazz

African-American music is America's greatest contribution internationally. To me the music has to have a certain amount integrity or guts and it's not just say. I mean I appreciate the artistic integrity too but also the meaning behind it. You talk about integrity. Have a performance. Having two sides. How do you measure do you have standards is it. Is there an elitism about. So when so did a better job than somebody else you have to measure different performing groups or different artistes by what. What they do. Where does the music come from. You know what the culture and the tradition then you have to look at what level where they are at and where they are headed. So sometimes I don't think it in some ways it's unfair to judge it on one say one performance so it isn't always a measure of standard by just how well the keys go down. Yeah

exactly. It's not just the technique but it's. I mean it's understanding the I mean what the piece is about I mean to me the musicians in my group the Pan-Asian orchestra I don't write for you know that I have ideas and I write them down to use as a guide and then what you're trying to do is consolidate the musicians around those ideas and also draw out their personalities you know makes music that comes across. I mean to me that's really par for the collective improvisation. When people like say for example when they hear on stage that it's something that's very real. I mean that's the Improv the tori quality that that is not something where OK you write down your ideas on a piece of paper and you read it to the people you know. But but I think people they want to hear the truth. And that's I think that was. I guess that's what I mean by

integrity. It's about personal risk. Yeah it's not like I remember when I watched the was the Watergate and it was always that the line I remember was the best of my recollection you know. And but. Yeah I think it's really coming out and saying what the truth is and that's what I think America really wants because there's a you know there's a lot of cynicism I think and I think music is a way of expressing the truths of humanity a way to cut through the cynicism. I want to optimise. I believe that America's you know the people of America are feeling the cynicism because I think the rich have you know partial advantages and that you know you can see why the reason why most of the majority of people in America don't vote because you know they don't feel they they have something that's really meaningful to them. So I'm been inspired by by immigrants. I used to teach citizenship classes in Chinatown. Their courage of trying to you know they want to fit in the

society. What made you stop music. Well I think that idea in music wasn't really meaningful to me I think for myself as a Chinese-American I had many conflicts. I think many feelings of who I am you know I think that in the conservatory for example you know I was one of three Asian-Americans in the conservatory and I was playing jazz. And I started piano in a very late age at 19. So I had a lot of pressure to try to fit in the conservatory because I had one and a half years of private instruction and went to conservatory after that. Yeah. And so I had feelings where I had to prove myself because many of the students that started at the age of 3 or 5 and they had all kinds of training. I didn't have my first piano. I was 20 years old and I worked as a gardener.

And to this day I still have the same piano it's a a. So my Consul which is smaller than upright and bigger than a spin and then there was African-American music. I led the white bands I played with black musicians so you left because you didn't feel you had an identity you could connect up with and you return because. You found a new identity a new way of expressing yourself. Well I think the Asian American jazz festival. Yeah it made it more so that it wasn't a separate thing. And that's what I mean by that I had experienced a lot of conflict. Because here I was one of three Asian-American musicians in the conservatory. The only one from the west coast the only one playing jazz. I was a leader of a jazz group you know and here I was I had a one and a half years of study and in the conservatory itself is so. Separate. From the

college. So I really didn't have a plan. I didn't feel like I had a place in that. But because the Asian-American Jazz Festival I became more part of the Asian. Movement if you could make the world over again or project the world you hope to see what would it be. There would be an equal distribution of the wealth and resources and that people would respect each other you know respect each other's culture and language. And I think it's recognizing our differences. I mean we do have similarities and differences but. And I think that that this country is rich but we're educationally poor and that the majority of people are resource poor. So I think that that's going to be the main the main thing I would like to see in this world.

Let's talk about cool and talk your collaboration with their artists calling Tung Arts which is like the leading Filipino music and dance company based in San Francisco was awarded a National Endowment of the arts into art scran. And so I was commissioned to create one composition and to CO compose and coal range with the other artistic directors mainly the music directors Frank holder and Robert Henry. And in that process I took some of the classes that Cohen target offered so that I would learn about the instruments such as There's the gun thing and which of the talking gongs talking talking. Yes there are four gongs are suspended and they played you know into the gong to tell stories. Actually in conversation for stuff like that. So there's an instrument and there's the Kuomintang itself which is I mean the word cool and tongue has multiple meanings. It's the name of the ensemble.

It's the tradition and it's also the name of the eight gongs that are set no in a re final. Michael would stand there and some of the other is sort of like the Agong in the bobbin dear. So the thing about these this kind of music was that you know again all the musicians knew all the instruments and that the music was very it was a carful because I mean there was that collective kind of improvisation. I mean people knew each other people knew the instruments but they knew each other's personalities. So that's the other part of the collaboration. And then. The dance aspect

was worked out separately and mainly the dancers. You know I was only a penny's she was a choreographer for Hec which is the piece at the heart of the sharpening stone. And that piece and many of the cool and time pieces were inspired by cooling times trip to or their tour actually of the Philippines. And in the particular this region called to boli which was a tradition that was being lost and they were praised by the people in the Philippines for what they were doing. You use the term. Cold compose Isn't that a problem. I don't know the Kohen Tong music and so I rely on working with you know the other artistic directors such as Frank I mean that when they commission me to work with them it wasn't like you know this is genius theory where I go into the room and I write out. These these these notes or whatever you know based on the little understanding I would have.

It's actually just in some ways it was kind of like a jam session you know. And actually some of the greatest music that we put out although I probably personally don't think of that. But initially came out from that freshness when we first started working out. That's when we talk about the two words to listen and to improvise. And when to play and when not to play. Those are some of the important things that I learned in the collaboration. The group you play with the arc you talk about that name the word orchestra refers to Noah's Ark and it's where music can be preserved. I mean put into the ark and then preserve later. You know because I feel that the music that I've created I mean even though in a lot of ways there hasn't been a wide range of support I feel that it's been very important and to the community I think that

maybe 10 years later you know someone will go to the arc and they're listen to it and you know I think I mean I feel pretty proud of the work of of the musicians that I've worked with that created some of the works in pan-Asian orchestra. You teach children. Is it difficult. No not really because actually I get a lot out of teaching the children because most of them are immigrant

born they've never had private instruction. Well there's the theory expressed I've heard it many times. You're born a musician you're born a painter there's the. You that you have it or you don't have it. What do you think of that. Well I think that. You know in America is that the people that can play music. Are the ones that have you know the privileges the ones that can afford the good teachers to go to the music schools the pianos and I mean I think for one thing talent. You know some people have really good rhythm. Some people can sing. Some people can read fast some people have coordination. Some people have all of that. But I feel that culture everybody plays just like in cool town everybody plays all the instruments and you grow up listening to that music. So the music is not separate from life. You know it's not this. I mean I think there's exceptions of people having exceptional talent but I feel that it's not that that all or none kind of thing I don't

believe that someone has a bad year. You know. They just don't listen. This is been a conversation with Jon Jang. I'm Bettina grey.