Kids Who Kill; Dominic Holmes interview continued

Okay, this is the next day, that's it. Head sets a good group, started talking about the anniversary of my crime. Then I went and got two of the best pictures of Mom and I and showed everybody in group. Kirby got the Gravestone and put a picture of Mom's Gravestone on it and everyone went around and said something to her. Willie started getting really emotional when he was talking to her and I couldn't help but getting teared at it too. Some reason my emotions were really slow on coming out but when it was on me I finally started talking to her in a way of feelings hit me and it felt good. It's been a while since I had a good cry. Willie came over and pretty much held me while I was talking to her. I really felt like I was talking and she could hear it and everything else faded out. It's almost been a year since I talked to her and I was really scared at first. It felt really good after a group and it was like I got off. I got a whole bunch of overdue stuff off my chest.

Lately groups have been really helping me out and I feel like I've made a lot of progress in the last month. I felt really close to and cared for by everybody in the group today. That's a good feeling. There's September 20th. Two years ago today I was going on a walk with Mom for the second time and I pulled out the knife but couldn't do it. Makes me sick thinking about it. My emotions and feelings were so far gone, it's crazy. Tomorrow two years ago is the worst day of my life and the worst day of a lot of other people's lives. All for what I thought would get me freedom. I was so selfish and low I never even thought about the fact that she'd never live another day of her life.

She'd never run those errands. She'd plan for tomorrow. She wouldn't have the chance to grow old. She'd die knowing her only son murdered her. The more I think about what a fucked up thing I did, the more I hate it, the more I think about how much pain I put her through, the more it hurts. The more I think about the whole thing, the more I want to change. I guess those are all good things and September 21st. I don't really know where to start. I don't want this to be just another day. I don't ever want this to be just another day. When I'm out, I'll definitely be sitting at her grave talking to her and thinking about more than I can imagine. Right now I feel like shit and I wish it was just another day but it's not and I'm not going to let that happen. Hopefully I'll be able to call at least Victoria and maybe Peter Patrick and Philip. I can remember back when we lived in Ashland at two different houses, one we thought was haunted and the other one was a few bucks away and I love that house.

We were like brother and sister back then, best friends. We used to ride down to Prince Pucklers to get some ice cream and we always had fun together. I was a normal little kid. Most of my friends, my age were girls. I can remember Shantal and those kids down the block. Mom wrote her bike all over the place and I sat in the baby seat in the back. There's really a photography and it was going to college. We also lived in Springfield and Eugene. We used to go back there and remember all the things we used to do and the houses we lived in. Then for a while we moved to Seattle and lived with Victoria in their red duplex. That was around the time she was seen Douglas or something. I can't remember any guy in Victoria's or mom's life that wasn't an asshole. Heck, I'm there so many pricks out there. After that I lived with grandma grandpa while mom was working in Seattle. They used to let me do anything. We all went up to the cabin a lot and that was just total freedom and I never wanted to go back to Salem.

A few times mom went up there. I remember the time we were running down the path by the cabin towards Delos Creek and she tripped on a route and gassed her knee. She had to be rushed off to get knee surgery. I wanted to go with her but she wouldn't let me. Called Victoria and talked for about 20 minutes. I think she talks about mom's negative characteristics too much. That bothers me because I don't like hearing the bad stuff. I like to think of her as a hard working mother that tried to make everything work out. I just think she tried to do hard to mold me into someone I wasn't. Victoria and I should celebrate today and remember the time when she was alive. I don't know about celebrating but I think she means I shouldn't think of today and make myself feel miserable every year. She asked what I think things would be like if I didn't kill her and life went on. I told her I had no idea what things would have been like and told her I asked myself a lot, a lot of what if questions and I need to spend less time on those questions and

think about what did happen because I could spend the rest of my life wishing things were different and it wouldn't get me anywhere. I told her about what I did in Wednesday group and what I talked about in Tuesday group. She also asked how I could let the community know I'm sorry for what I did. I answered by saying there's really no way I could let the community know I'm sorry for what I did except by working my hardest in here and not ever hurting anyone again. I also told her I can't worry about what everybody else thinks of me. That's basically what I did when I was out and that didn't help me at all. I think Donald probably is out at mom's grave today. I've heard he keeps her grave looking nice and puts fresh flowers around it. On this day when I'm out I'll be sitting at her grave all day talking to her. I want to go there alone and just be close to her. God I can remember at her burial when for the first time I came face to face with what I did.

My mom was going into the ground and for a second I realized what a permanent thing I did. That's the first time I felt sad and sorry for what I did. I didn't want him to bury her. I want her to come back and for everything to be okay. Then after the funeral I was back to covering my ass and not carrying who got hurt in the process. I think I also went through my mind that I didn't take care of my problems at all by killing her and it only caused more problems and was going to be the worst mistake of my life. I was so fucked up in the head. That was the only time I cried for her until about five or six months later in here. All the time at GDH were for myself, oh poor me, what a joke. It's about covering your ass, what do you mean, what did you mean there? When I was, it was the two weeks before I got in between and when I killed her and when I got arrested and just trying to act like I didn't do it. Get everybody to believe that.

That's pretty strong stuff. Did you write anything after your weekend meeting with Mark? Yeah, I did. Here's Thursday right before I want to read that. Yeah. Before he was coming. Had about a hundred feelings all hit me today, talked with Brody and let everything out. I put it all in the table about five different things around my mind and bothering me and I knew I had to talk to somebody. Thought relieved and a lot less tense afterwards. Some days I just feel like crying all of a sudden and when in a motion, jerking thought comes

into my head. It's like I've learned how to take the lid off of my pressure cooker full of emotion when it starts to get too full and emptied out. It clears my mind up too. And Friday today was another up and down day. It's crazy how easily feelings can be hurt. First you feel hurt and defensive. Then you get angry and offensive. Then after you cool off, you feel depressed and miserable. Then you start to understand the thing that hurt you and hopefully from there you can talk it out and resolve the problem. At least that's kind of how it worked out today. I got to talk to Skullfield. It wasn't a long talk but probably the best one we ever had. I love Skull, he's one of the best friends I have. And then New Year's Day. Wait, this is a week before. Okay, here's the day after I visited with him.

I made it some arc yesterday. They woke up at about 830 and brushed washed up. I had some coffee, talked with Willie. And at 9. Dan Ward, Dan Robago, Willie, Dremain, Nick, Brody, and Kirby and I went into the bachelor living to talk. Got my two pictures of Mark and wrote down some of the questions I wanted to ask. Ward and Dremain both read the second letter for the first time. Then it was time. They were supposed to be here at Tim but Kirby came and got me about 1025. Willie ended up being able to come with me into the visit. So the three of us walked over to the Geertu School and the visit began. Mark was in the flats waiting and I met his counselor and shows where everybody was sit. Mark couldn't make eye contact with me until I told him he could. It was really weird to see him again. He wore a tight sweater without an undershirt like I predicted. He had that weird walk too I've never seen anyone walk that awkward way he does. I tried to relax but couldn't stop shaking either and I felt emotional but none of it was coming out.

I started to cry once but it didn't last too long and then I stopped and didn't write anymore about it. Thank you. Willie's been making a lot of progress lately hasn't he? I think he's going to visit with his victim's family possibly sometime soon. I think. I thought that might happen. It sounds like a hard thing to do. What do you think turned the corner for him? He was not too well until a year or so ago. I saw those pictures in Marathon I think because he was telling himself they just made little holes. They shot gun pellets and when he saw the pictures it was right in his face about what he did to his victims.

So I stopped trying to tell himself it was real quick and it didn't hurt as much as you could tell I did on the pictures. I think that's probably what it is. It's a reality check for him I guess. Maybe you don't feel comfortable about talking about this and if you don't, don't. But how do you think Brian Lawler is doing? I'm not in his group. There's a group so I don't know what's going on with him and treatment but I hang out with him and stuff. I really can't say because I'm not in group with him.

Larry? Question or two? Yeah. You know when we showed that documentary about the guy from the grasskin. I was struck by the reaction from Willie and the other man. Mostly the other man was the group. I'm not sure how you felt about it but I mean they were sort of like ready to tear into me. This wasn't what he or his was because. Are they excuse making? I like to kind of react to that part of it and get your feeling. I guess it was Willie said no one takes ownership of this crime and everyone was piling on to the mother. At first I couldn't believe it because the only thing they were talking about was all these excuses and making it seem like it was all right because she did this and she did that to us and stuff. I didn't like that about the movie and about the documentary.

I mean it was obviously one-sided and from a point of view of the sister that pretty much thought what he did was almost all right just because of how her mom was and treated Brett I think was his name or something. I guess she's trying to get him out of prison. Yeah. Pretty steep seconds too. Pat offered to get the two of you together via mail. Is that something you pursue? I told Pat I might want to after this thing with Mark but I just wanted to get this visit with Mark over with before I thought about it right now. But I might write him just maybe we can learn something from each other I don't know. Why don't you come over here so?

Okay. Yeah so you want to have this. I'd like you to talk a little bit about the relationships that you who were in the group have with one another. And what led you to ask really to sit in with that meet on Saturday which had to be very very difficult not only for you but for him I suspect. That's what I want to hear about the relationships between all of you who were in this group. I'd said the world pretty much unconditional friends and we've all seen each other change and go through a lot of stuff and talk about things that we never would have talked about anywhere else. There's a lot of trust between everybody.

Everybody's in there to help the other person out to feel what let the feelings come out. It's a safe place for him to talk about secrets or things that never would have came out. I mean we don't got to act in front of each other. We can just be ourselves because we accept each other. I'm closer friends with Willie than I've ever been with anybody else and same with a lot of the other guys in the group just because of what I've talked about in there and how much trust that I have in him and all that kind of stuff. How do you take that with you when you go to the outside?

Hopefully I can make some friends that I have some friends right now that I can talk to and tell them just about anything. I'm hoping to keep those friends when I get out because they're good people to talk with and hopefully I can find a good group to hang out with, make some friends like we have in here. When you think about all the guys who have been through here in the last two years, those that have been in group, those who have not been in the group, those who are just coming in and those who have left and you look at all 40 or 45 or 50 or however many it's been. Give me some idea to what you think the success ratio might be. How many of these guys might go out and commit a crime again? How many do you think really are getting something here and just give me some feel for the numbers?

You're talking about people that have gone through group. Those who have and those who have, but just everybody that's in SI and gear two. I can't see anybody in our group right now that doesn't want to change and doesn't want to ever do what they did or hurt another person like they did. But it's up to them when they get out, if they're going to keep that with them. And the people that aren't in group, I mean, I mean, I mean, anything can happen. And when they come in here and don't have a group and they just sit in here and get angry and feel like, you know, pissed off that they got, you know, five years or whatever for something. And they're just thinking about themselves. They're just going to get out and be thinking about themselves, which can easily lead to come in another crime more serious than the one they got in for.

Is there any doubt in your mind that there are some people who will get out of here and commit a violent crime again? I mean, I don't like to judge people that way, so I can't really say anything can happen. It depends on what they want to do when they get out. But there are some people that I've thought to myself that probably, I'll probably see them in the papers or something someday again. There's some people you wouldn't trust. The violent offender group is pretty select cohesive little group and you have to invite people to come in.

And what determines whether or not somebody wants to come in to the group because you have to say really. What do you look for? Do you look for a severity of the crime? Well, we're talking about having, is there right for me, it's not right for me to talk about it. This is going nowhere for a while. Like if somebody were talking about having a group that crime wasn't as serious as the other people in the group, but they still had a lot of problems with a lot of family problems and stuff. I mean, it's pretty much just who needs the help and who needs to get in the group and get stuff dealt with. But there's not really a lot of people that we've said, no, we don't want them in group.

You know, if they need it, we're not going to say we don't want them in group for some reason. Anything you want to get out of your chest. Now there's your chance. Victoria is your mother's sister and Donald is my mom's brother. Why don't we talk about that for just kind of a wrap-up question? Just generally how you're getting along with your family now and how they've kind of settled in or not settled into this after almost two years now. I call my aunt Victoria about every week, every other week, and talk to her. Our relationship keeps getting better and better.

The relationship with my uncles and how they're doing with the whole thing is I don't really have a lot of contact with them. I call my uncle Patrick every once in a while and they have visited with all my uncles except Donald, which was the oldest one in the family and I'm just doing everything I can to help him out. I can't do anything to help him after what happened, but just having him come in and be able to tell me how they feel about it and what they think about me was the first step. And then just talking with them every once in a while after that is what I've been doing.

I mainly talk with my aunt Victoria and my grandparents come in every other week to visit. I talk with them on the phone. What about girlfriends? They're just, they've had friends. Not really girlfriends. Any doubt that your family will be with you when you get out of here to support you? Most of them. I think most of them, I hope so. Do you have any words of wisdom for parents who are raising younger kids now and what kind of relationship they should try to develop? Any words of wisdom for kids dealing with their parents?

Sometimes I wish that my mom's relationship and that I had with her was like my friend's Jake, my friend Jake's relationship with his mom because they're just really close and pretty much his best friends. I talk about anything in front of each other and with my mom I was like I could only say the right things and I didn't want to tell her about something that was bothering me or something that I did. And because I'd either get in trouble for it or she'd tell all of her friends and ground me or whatever. So I told her at least the amount I could to get in the least amount of trouble. She wanted me to be able to talk openly with her and we went to counseling and I hated going to counseling because I just didn't want to talk to her.

I just didn't want to talk to her and going to the counseling was like her way of trying to force me to talk to her. And so I didn't like that at all. And just be open and I guess that's it. Great. It's probably me too. I actually want you to close it and then open it. Okay. Go ahead and open it. Which I turn it to a page that has something on both sides.

Hold it right there. Okay. Go ahead and flip it through a little bit. Okay. Hold it right there. Sit back where you were and you're finishing it there.

Just go ahead and open it. Okay. Read a little bit out loud. Yesterday Willie Nick sneed in that Dan and I watched Morey Povitch because it was on Dan's crime and Don Aurem was on it talking about the night and how she was left for dead. I really felt mixed up watching the talk show. I guess it just made Dan's crime really real to me and I felt like the way I did after seeing Deadman walking. Fran was only in her 20s and I always imagined her to be somewhere in her 50s.

Donna was surprisingly not revengeful and wasn't stuck on hating and wishing they all got the death penalty. There were four of them and one got death, life plus 30, 13 and Dan got 12 years. Didn't show much about Fran. Donna seemed like a nice person and it was impossible not to like her. She said she doesn't hate the boys but feels like they were really evil. That was the main thing. Everyone who was involved said about them. They were evil. Called Graham and Grandpa and they had a great time on their cruise. Graham was so sweet on the phone but she gets pretty mixed up. I hate Alzheimer's. Leah's last letter kind of pissed me off and it's like she's trying to make me jealous or something. Sometimes I think it would just be better if I let her go because I have a feeling she's going to go her anyways. Oh well, I've got to go.

The grandparents visited. Grandma looked really nice. Every visit. I get to know them more and I'm scared to lose them. That had a great time on their cruise and I got a postcard of the ship. Almost three football fields long and this thing was huge. Grandpa can't stand fat people and ask them why. It's basically because he always has to wait for them. Because they're slow and take up too much room. He doesn't have much patience. He also put grandma down like usual. Makes me sad and I hope it doesn't affect her too much because he does it a lot. Now I've experienced a taste of what mom got sick of. Been hanging around more of a variety of people lately. And the germane isn't living up to his war enemies and that's where I stand at a tour. Sinoff grandma's birthday card. She's going to be 79 this Friday. Talked to Gomer and McBride.

I guess staff think silver tags kick it too much in the batch of living in quite room. So I need to watch how much time I spend away from the group. Didn't get on internet because we couldn't get through but hopefully tomorrow I'll get on. Been feeling all right lately. Last night I thought about how much I miss grandma if she passed away. I started crying a little and it felt good and bad at the same time. I probably love grandma more than anyone else in this whole world. She's so sweetness and even with all liners moving in. Thanks for watching.

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