Traditions: Ohio Heritage Fellows; 202; Baba Jubal Harris interview, part 2 of 7

Q:

BABA: So um, yea that... during that period of time junior high there was high school um, our ensemble included Jeff Dobbins, Larry Edwards uh um, scuse me. Jeff Dobbins, Ronnie Edwards, and uh, Shelby Saunders. As well as, Jerry Cosby. So, the four of us were the Caballero’s. And uh, we performed th—the Afro-Cuban music that we were learning from listening to records and then getting lessons from Flash Ford. So um, as time went on, you know, uh, I—in Cincinnati at that time uh—there wa-there was not—uh, I would say Flash Ford was one of the only people that I knew or had access to who knew about African Afro-Cuban drumming... Afro-Caribbean drumming. Um, by then when I uh, enrolled at the University of Cincinnati um, I was exposed to African drumming for the first time. And that came as a result of um, attending the first black history celebration at The University of Cincinnati in 1968. A group called The Pharaoh’s came to uh, perform from Chicago. And included in that group was The Darlene Blackburn African Dancers from Chicago. Um, and so they had drums... traditional African drums that they played for Darlene Blackburn. And um, that was the first time I saw African dance and African drumming in its entirety. That was it. I—I—you know, I uh, I just felt really compelled to learn how to do that and to explore what that was all about. Because, I ha—I had no idea that oh—of the depth of the history and the culture and the cultural retentions that we have as African Americans uh, um, and I wanted to really get a clear understanding of it f—um, and how it related to me personally through my family line and how it related to my community and, you know, uh, make sense out of, well at that time uh, especially going through the sixties period, well, the forties, fifties, and then the sixties uh, I began to get information about the cause of the social and uh, economic conditions that were so oppressive in-in-in uh, black community. And I, you know, growing up, I uh, although I was... I was affected by it. I didn’t know... I didn’t know to what extent, because being a child, you know, you—yo—you make the best of whatever environment you’re in and you do... you do what you can to um, you know, I mean, you’re actually oblivious to a lot of uh, what’s going on around you. But then um, as I began to, you know, get older and... an—and try to gain some understanding about racism, war, uh, ‘cause now we’re moving into the Vietnam era. Uh, there’s political, social, economic um, forces that are at work. And these forces have been at work for a long time. So, historically, I’m looking, now I’m beginning to look back and see, how... In time, slavery ha—had um, had—had stripped me, my family, uh, the people that I loved, people that I knew of a certain um, knowledge of who we a—who—who—who are we really? Who are we? And... and that question, who am I, uh, began to surface in my mind. And um, I started looking for avenues to find the answer to that question. And being a—involved in music and being involved with the drum, I saw there was a... there’s some type of a continuity that’s going on in these rhythms. There’s some—there’s uh, a binding force that seems to be able to transcend these social conditions, to transcend these um, uh, I—the feelings of oppression, the feelings of being um, labeled as a second class citizen or being um, given um, a position in society that is not on the same par with white people and with other people in the ruling uh, classes of the society that I am in. And um, I wanted to... I wanted to get a deeper uh, realization of what... what it was that allowed my grandfather, my grandmother, my gre—my uncles uh, the people in my family to rise above and beyond the limitations that was placed on them by these institutions uh, by racism, by the lack of um, proper respect that came from the society around them. And um, I noticed that in the barbershop, you know, when I’m sitting there listening to the jazz music, that the people are feeling uh, good. They—they have uh, just feeling, you know, uh, in spite of. It’s like a feeling in spite of uh, the trauma that they’re going through in their life. In spite of the trauma that you’re going through in life. They’re feeling... they’re feeling good in spite of it. Then I... I go to church, and the same thing. When the music is... is really in the spirit, the people are—uh, the spirits of the people are elevated beyond whatever uh, horrific situations are going on in their life with whatever problems they’re having in their life. And I begin to notice that there is a central kinda rhythm to this. There’s some—there’s a core uh, essence that is going on inside of that. Wha—and— and I began to want to know what—what is that? So um, when I started to... to learn to play the drums, it was... being able to um, to kinda like connect with the heartbeat, to connect with what’s inside of me, and this—and what’s inside of me is connecting me ancestrally to... a lineage that goes far beyond and far deeper than just my immediate family, but it-it—it goes and it—it travels through the gospel music, it travels through the jazz, it travels through the blues, it—it.. the rhythm and blues and it goes into B-Bop and it goes in to... all of the music that I—you know, rock-n-roll that eventually came about—there’s this uh, energy, this spirit that’s inside of that. And f—and it—it seems to have the power to um elevate no matter what the situation is. To communicate something that is um, uncommunicable through words. But, mainly through sound and through feeling through what you feel.