Lucumi Macumba Voodoo, part 1

rolling rolling rolling rolling rolling rolling i mean you know it's dark just met so many ways we can talk about brazil to start with and then we can go to africa as background for that if you want to know how you would like to approach and what you'd rather stay talk about africa yes followed referred to answer questions so we can start rolling well the first thing i do that comes to my mind is that just mainly for my own benefit there's a word a cornwell that is she policies in brazil are but i've heard a lot of negative things about that particular word but it's the only word that i know of that that you might use to cover all of the african based religion say in brazil is there another word or our allies forces saw the puzzle what people are frame or if you put yourself into and turmoil for the meanings of that troll terminology that's it

and of course because most of the most of the cult leaders are our own region ate from our from idea to begin with for example runs eleven am was one of the very very basic one of the most popular bellotti schaal was recorded there by the sun till cult leader and real bargain from it it means ever present to you the group is very closely connected with the economic trouble yet war was establishing real is is called center he was never call my name sell probably would have objected to that but jonathan martin that american mozart anything pleasure to read about that i just read things

that that people not likely and that particular word that it had sort of bad connotations know it inserts into a much more nowadays people would use probably german bond more much more readily than any other such many other tribes because i'm on there is widespread throughout the country were that south the central office when you go into what are in bondage is coming specifically well are in this respect them into bits so it's a matter of degree of effort to extend within the eligibility of religious belief systems and practices certain elements are emphasize more about this center was the dominant members or for white people or at least more than really just within brazilian religious and ethnic identification

people are lukewarm like a why so few blacks parker works if you use that term but at the same time you could say it's the largest of the rich a particular religion sweet speech on the numbers of the appeal as is so why yemen is to enable that's right and this is why i think the image of a study of music which is by avoiding what i've been working on this to show her precisely that there is a series of music being proposed literally all time for mundo usage are which is very closely connected with what we could call urban popular music you know it's again you have that continuum age of the musical styles that are what won them one and the scale you could see them or stir african like a type of music that are the world are set and traditional

and where changes do occur by the ads slower pace than now and in the others an obscure which would be one one the music very closely connected with while popular some buzz all different style but by marriott the type of music that one associate with carmel merrymaking in the top could you draw analogy between the well let's see can you say that these pop songs that are of religious but have religious content are they using the rituals are are they more in line with american gospel tunes that simply i'm saying about that than the lyrics deal with religious alcott religious ideas and things along those lines yeah well it said so

did they may become pop tunes pursue what they are is it to their last pieces specifically compose for some ceremonies a month and the style is very much akin to that golf urban popular music of a non religious or secular nature of fuel so it's not the question here all for having a popular tune from that sector context that is being in incorporate into the religious context what is matter off smile analogy but it's really it's very much a sense it would have saved somebody ah but because it's so because of the lyrics it serves up quite a different function this is why there is a great deal of farm of cost and repertory being add it to the er to whom won the music and to that extent i would say that even when you don't have oh i've seen this happen are in the largest cities of southern brazil silence all things in brazil but i see no among the religious ceremonies been carried workable

ming pao nice to say that we're the specifics are so she was pacific gods and of course they know what it was it was actually used those and it was simply use the record if there's nobody to play the drums on to say more so that's all to like stand that's a musical which is not really which has been commercialized as everything else so doing womb under which has been commercialized but so that's a particular music has a definite religious function or however whatever the origin of the visit may be interim of composition and individuals composing under copyright which you write for the rituals why we talk about the continuum of the religion's dealing with the african elements and each and hell as you go along towards the wonder how these things are lost with it

first or so it is definitely in the west african arabs are especially what we call you ruled the land and army and the form people all fall long would excuse to be done or may which is now the republic this is where we should we should look for the source of our gym in trouble for the most popular religious in brazil as though i don't call him by with folk religion that some people do feel that there is a backer bad connotation time of concept that i don't really like to be part of the religion in the sense that they are non christian religion primarily and this is always an african heritage those religions all days on the bund the very basic concepts all fall off you're obama filed a notice that the concept is simple visit destiny of man really is the hand and the head of the gods but so

what's a man is not a passive agent in front of the destiny man cannon and should ah do whatever is needed to influence the decision of a particular god in any aspect of his or her life this is seen particularly in the fact it will even though the people of all those descendants of congo along all the origin are have a simulated the whole belief system of the euro was just such an extended today recognize the ideal but promptly on which is obviously not present in africa itself so i'm already the area have sold intro intertribal a confirmation taken place so oh during the slavery period on a pier in brazil to bring about this type of insurance from the euro by what could you mention a couple of things that that set the congo anglo

people us apart same belief systems lead at least among the original african coleman's arrest it's primarily off the whole mythical stories behind each particular art got sick obviously are you do have our names of course on a different names different languages correspond to a given god because most of those guard represent forces of nature for example there are some similarities into more for the overall cost me give you all of man r and r what is really basically an end of the whole mythical stories behind and he attributes all four beats particular god that you would find very busy difference is what it was in the us not the

case you in brazil for example the same attributes are given the two gods in say keep on the language which is not also it's which is quite different from the obama for language in the senate and it will begin to leave to god to the same god's wall are usually the african area that saw the cases brought by drew brees i mean such thing as the specific curve callers associate with would god specific or prayers or biggie specific food so should be offered to the garden so for now going back to that continuum that you're talking about they get up off it saw its important to realize that that he knew about influence be seen primarily in the hierarchy of gods as in the actual prices in belief system are one thing for example is that a recognition of flowed about some goal and that

and the other now some more the god of wealth under on the one hand and the gods about the lao or shell out about the creation of the other rebels brought the recognized by the long long rallies people off oh idea whether they were originally part of their tribal culture in africa not as something interesting also is that the fact that they had developed a very much a similar type of music repertory to fall for that vergara ceremonies in praise of god another thing of gaza which no one would find this by many would be a similar arturo the difference but so one that is very close to maintain in brazil and those are specific elements of religious practices scene where we talk about those aged the capabilities reasonable people can one wall a people

that is primarily the use of farm awful ritual of dancing in the ceremony of the initiation yeah and practice at and most important goals serve the very cause of a spirit possession a sport all fall all religious fulfillment ok and you wonder what i'm a little bit further and from that i don't know if we need to even since we for talked about monday you won't make it connecting connecting ok nothing interesting untrammeled fought one we go along but could to malign their calculation process can be seen for example with the so called gon the magic of local gabaldon portuguese simply mean the rubble or loosely speaking as a presenter of personnel for that a varying at the cards in the

result paulo why it's an indian or black and indian that could be called double or so are the ideas come into trouble because it is that national by nationalistic brazilian counterpart all of the african aspect of religion and of course and the government had trouble where you find auto it's still very vague even in the minds of the believers but you do find our belief systems and recognition of art of an engine elements or these elements of eden origins that gobbled them sell become to god they did not refer to the gods as woody charlotte is a time using uber for god dune which is a gem museum are new jersey and the other four people for the gods but they talk about the gobble gobble prove they're here for example is one type of god to what extent of course of those indian belief system a medford been incorporated into on the republic we don't really know in

austin chronicle perspective of this proposal kerry ended the whole cultural history behind this has never been reconstructed what they are elements for example internal follow the practices elements that one could dead as being perhaps search engine elements of some religious observation they use ofa a small for example what we call before maslow i could be related to engine golf engine religious practice as opposed to well it was a local african practice them the wall in terms of fall interim of initiation also the degree are far i would say this as a generalization in that is that the more african a particular religious group years the more esoteric odd the ball the initiation phase will be and also the longer the initiation pass period

what what that will be our was also this move my seat again of the more culturally the group is the more flexible rules for our initiation seem to be seen by this phrase all that i've made mention of the simple example was in some commonly called i'm gonna lay groups vermin issues meticulous area to also fifteen was completed the scene of the early and some luck on the magic of local this will be only a two week period and the euro an awards the dog mountain the dog was all the more cultural groups and to be much less well the farm then those off the more traditional and african and regional cult groups as well

but let's talk for a minute about the whole matter of sync with his own one of the no you know i'm talking to play but umm start out with maybe a short definition of what that means because a lot of people may not know but and then go into to why it by brazilians started simply tyson that's in the law the gem signatures ms hughes though almost as a synonym for our recent incident calls the levels were effect alteration in areas it took for example in the case of congo and sent about whether him knowing cuban songs along

some component all of the the whole mythical story or sometime pure historical evidence that we have of a life of a particular site will be reinterpret five of the people i still have to fit a particular story about with the er the myth and the legend associate with a is so specific african god this is a serbia the centers of the element so far separatism ok now now that we know what it is why was that why did we were sort of this in brazil or work or their reasons i mean obviously there were for political reasons or the idea of trying to to fool the mast or something we're not really i think that it adds at first most likely this is purely pure speculation on my part at first i would say that what we have is an accommodation definitely is social

social historical accommodation by this i mean for example obviously the first slaves that they were brought over to brazil were put in i'm covered right immediately within the christian religion which was to reform to them and really mean anything but because this was an imposition on them they are they are busy without rejecting all from getting beyond gotten their own religious beliefs they are the ten but trump should first as an accommodation to try to recognize so within the imposed religion elements that could be a particularly suited to their own adult lives and as such of course the i think it's a recognition of the site of the saints and the legalization of the science where the african or shall make sense so at first it may have been simply are not

so much a recognition of the spiritual power of the catholic signed what's the harm and not even the recognition of the saints per se but simply an accommodation to say because of the social political pressure on the south into very slavery condition but mail on but it was you all this process takes place of over the previous centuries courts and by day while they say an hour so i get in the mind of all those people i mean brazil is exactly a sentence there's no contradiction whatsoever or to the opposite that because it's been shown that because of the slavery imposition this living conditions people of african descent have had to hold on to their religious values and as such they have brought maintain the spirit of religion reps much more alive yours it's an orange racing dive about injured than

the western quarter percentage you may have done much more open to two things that was something i want to get into is the vitality of the religion as opposed to it's a western christianity which is is by most people practice once a week say on sunday for an hour of mass or is this all the african based religions that were talking about seem to be much more a part of a person's life and the spirits or the orders show us we'll talk about those in a minute but these are things that are dealt with every day in an appeal to land and yes i think that so while this is a very much of a of an african you what religion is about to say that i don't share the view of call marks about religion and that is that the more miserable of tupelo press

people are and being the more they had to resort to religion as a sort of salvation i don't believe that i believe that quite the opposite that calls for continuity is so is always a sure bye by religious continuity was because of course of all of the africans especially of course the eye that we'll talk about which is what i know but i know there's no doubt that really just as a cultural focus dictates the hole odd behavior of man as you say it has vitality while but they all religious have i got to let it so well this is very much the same way or where thought would offer was in a religious one is a much more visible because they are resorts to talk the consultation of the god constantly and one of the points i would like to make with this program is to point out to people who may not be aware of it that these

religions are not just rights of black magic and witchcraft but are in fact positive religions which do have an effect on people's lives for the better for me to better your life or without without harming other people necessarily a lot of the ads of this is one of the basic function of religion and any type of society reason only briggs about some social order but it's also brings about really works toward the well being of the individual within society and in this respect all thing that stuff so called primitive our religion or in our religion in primitive societies are any different they do work for the integration of the individual and the group and their work for the betterment of fog of that individual there's no doubt about this little sophie bless talk about black magic or because so awful lot of misunderstanding

our man was simply to the mail each drew our ignorance all thought what are the air exactly the the religious practices of the use of regular the the ritual use the blog has been one thing that's been looked upon as being very primitive elements of the society such shows something that is repulsive and so for once are why i think that if you understand the concept all follow our well the very concept of the mythical world by west africans them all fit in into place very very nicely everything is logical within a city concept and germany and norway this is meant to be yeah for the destruction of the individual or any such negative of the ideal black magic of course are the very traumatic for one thing it's so is very

loving misapply really there's no there's hardly any magic too complacent and the level of fraud of sales farm witchcraft for european witchcraft practices it's quite a different matter and well you talk a little about bloody might mention our mission something about what the purpose of using blood is whether we end the concept of of life ending might mention something about the afterlife or something but yes go into these than yesterday for us that they were in which takes place in the spirit possession of the meeting that's what wall already bought into it is being initiated the enormous so what's a really big issues news about is simply too discipline whatsoever that so spirit possession my mind my be so it's really it's so it's a conditioning assume it's a psychological condition

and also created jews of social expectations and i think in the main point though is that the ritual sacrifices not a negative thing with a very positive again once again in return to them a very positive i practice in the religion borja also here and partner forces watchers most people have had very negative reaction as drew oh the ritual the sacrificing of animals in and they look at this as being cruelty and so for four and forth on one level and what you might be thought as being cruelty by one another level as to see a more charitable level is quite different in or the catholic mass the symbol of lies bryden want their words are representative of the flesh of jesus on the one hand and his blog so that the very top the very symbols are there our if not the actual

prison the statute presents a bob was of the symbols are there to go so i don't see that there's any any negative feeling in any way about that can we talk for a minute about the young the basic structure of the belief system in other words my impression is that it's a monotheistic that this the western african religions are basically monotheistic and in fact what are referred to as gods i'm not really got but intermediaries much like say marry or that any of the saints and that's maybe that has something new with its appeal so much to does the level of disillusionment looks at this there's no ballot because whoa the religious sect of ceremonies and rituals are meant to be

some kind of communication with the lesser deities were them or with the subprime and so basically the the supreme dr coleman is sort of plays the creator roll as rolling it is position is as creator and as the supreme force let's say it's a true but he's not because he is so far removed from from humanity that he can be appealed to directly observe it and there's no way that there can be a direct appeal lot we simply not even the man or for consign the other but the end of each article level mean there's never a nickel station alan the bomb and the specific request made sure zombie your research disagreement it seems that i'd read somewhere that that in in fact there are some indications not liturgical maybe but just in day to day life you might say all

around oh yes that's always say oh god only that but there you find it in west africa have seen this in nigeria when i was there of years ago that the total is invoked it at almost every day and all the streets you fight for a summit buses in a literally buses and labels so kerry also so for mortals in invoking in the middle of june one with the other so it is an abstraction bayous where there's not an organized court such groups is a printing but he has acknowledged that his left and his existence of forces or was it now let's talk for a minute about cuban versus brazil let's aim for what seo how do in cuba is or has that the approach to all this in cuba differ from brazil how are they similar and let's say in the missing craig aspect of

artillery shots basically sink because with the same saints and i know in some instances they aren't others they are what was what has changed are and solve the differences poker us but i would say pro possibly has to be calm the local art history of the local ethanol history all thought of christian religion in those areas and as we don't know very much about to be able to ascertain oh why certain types of fall oft times for his opera does appear certain <unk> african drums it does appear in cuba would be retained in brazil ah law i thought sometimes the spanish times a lot of being substituted in the charitable and and ritual language than in any reason for why i'm saying this because it's well known that so you'll buzz a ritual languages been

maintained and coat a pure pure form in brazil and it has in cuba yet of course so most cuban songs up to whatever the gods are still sign him eight major only turk to call ritual language which is supposed to be african mines with a great deal of work of alteration but something interesting phrase i want to just do an example in brazil our riches are your times may mean so a diviner somebody you would knows a divination game and he knows all the story behind it the nation wall in cuba the same time bob allow all of the grants that does not mean specifically a dig on a bloody means is extended to autumn mean

the cult leader so watch in the real results build a travel company that is bob ali shah or the father of your show and this is why porter is were going by the sound glow wears a man all mine to some point isn't a woman but today the babar it means father maurice arguably the farmer teresa what this jumbo issue has been lost in in cuba of course has been really miss bala thing and they were building called off fabio my views but pitino my buddy not be but it's about the same idea get you can see that with new terminology you can see already some influence over catholic culture of having a godfather so in cuba it's basically the same cultural origins as in say by eo which is the your work and of course you do have also i also know that

some into trouble at alteration took place in cuba before so we know this new study of remember these in the appellate of millions of people but so i think that that's one of the tribal region different effects on the other different groups for example i don't know that areas and cities such equivalent in cuba as the egyptian eyeball or the youtube up and follow a religious sergeant as we find a culture that in by ian yet they do have thought but what i would say perhaps equivalent in cuba overcome a legit global growth perhaps to be about why people so indeed it's not let's see what else can talk about it so the i'll talk about cuba what about haiti in on this general overview of we know haiti and the people that settled a win that eventually settled in

haiti voluntarily or otherwise from different cultural regions of africa as a more less correct and so there they are lending is is very different from the other two areas from work to a certain extent yes but maybe in distant and terminology and it was yes because they're doing what they are sure that either one has to take into account we at nau history are all each of those areas out of the haiti has had quite a different industry from lubbock you one thing it was was colonized though closer first so while spanish elements within port newark was a fringe element of influence much more than spanish assets the very need for that element of the creole language in haiti is one thing that you don't find in the hispanic on musil prevail the colonies ought body job of haiti i think that others made out of haiti

taught primarily is that the air all the african fong culture as to see that particular area of southern the home a lot of that is the of dignity because as you are the former kingdom of pablo may have all the aerial about in south and south the west and only the whole voodoo area say are which is where this particular area from now may come from is really what has provided a very basic source of world religions so that system as retaining at much more so than any other cultural african group and god there's a scene for example of course and they do do do recognize also occasionally some audio but time for our they've got one for example is one you will win was the god of war as a warrior but

also got metal on iran's is known as i am and all in creole today french to jump through haya just mean that are banal pieces of our bus so you could see that saw all the attributes and be maintained that may be the language the development of the creole language minutes oh sure there's such as readily as the maintaining also follow the all regional african chat let's go over one other thing and we can cut offer today to talk about the role of of men and women and let's get specific and well maybe nine specifically to the brazilian calls that maybe even in cuba if it's similar what what role the men play what role women play the importance of women i know is in brazil at least is as called we're more so than men yelp was your father to

that there've been many a cult leaders on very popular a well known or cult leaders in recent history both brazil and cuba that have been man the one i was mentioning earlier it was in local mayors want by large i'm actually for korean patient to use are a lot of charm all far west african society has been maintained npr social organization all be all of the new world really does so groups this is also has to do perhaps with arms well with the role that man play in society at large is because of man awkward pauses in a typical latin and catholic or country man is supposed to be the provider for the families generally has to associate the jawbone

there could hardly saw him do all his attention and divided attention that so the gold center always need more talk i don't look at this so on for close to be the result of such practical considerations that they return the doctor could focus come primarily from the calm the metaphorical orientation of the end of the open society others know about to turn recent history of the somalia lead to major a car is a big thing talk about middle c on a film of your show but for charlotte's other one called google a very important area meaning you they're all all women and their influence extends was much much beyond much much beyond their own the limits of their own called saturday night terrible fog and

other level of course of any shoots into the cult something that there are also more women in issue into the colony our man our and the result of and the reason for this though is something that still needs to be investigated what's all brought by larger thing that perhaps or what was it about seventy percent all of the activities all at the typical center really isn't a ham all full of women manage was to play an important role as drummers for example and drummers have a high social status within the cult but according at least two more the more orthodox sets of rules of the dramas have to be met a woman is not supposed to touch a drop and wannabes because ritualized

what men also have all the important function for example the animal sacrifice or is generally a man also and of course to become officials sacrifice of the culture you need to go through a series of fraught all flows soulful ceremony to recognize in confirming the responsibility but the same thing goes for drama from those also confined there they go through confirmation ceremony side the men also have an important role in and the cult house a visible to bring calm means of support for local house and this is where you find that many of the russell crowe guards was sort of civil protectors jelly on math man including that may not have been an issue all into the goals but they do have and they do hold official position women bills they are the providers if you want to the outside world

of support for the cult of center and patrons so the patrons booed pages with the not so inactive passive patrons but patrons of them are very very active participation with immigrant could you apply just saying what you just said about brazil could you play that the cuban businesses are claimed or as a sign of again salah more starring on the our cult leaders in cuba this in recent history virus to israel remained within the last thirty or forty years a team the women are but again our autumn or not about local history offered them a dozen area or even an anomaly the local media history to really know but over whether this sexual division of roles within the colts is as we have in brazil is equally applicable to cuba

i do know of course that initiate so on also predominantly female but to what extent of course the sins favours our pollute the same patrons all godfather's a row would also be a rollout soon by males is one thing that was on a lot of critics and myself into in the fourth year you would think oh okay