Walt Rostow discusses government role in security, welfare and constitutional order

about that matter and in the next couple weeks or see what i can do all right spouse i complete the formal expedition sporting by returning to the four questions that i posed at the beginning of his seminars and putting at least a well intended of answers to first i would conclude that the government's examined have proved to be instruments are organizing resources to deal with problems of security welfare and constitutional order that is to say that the initial definition of government that we laid out in braces a pretty thoroughly the activities of those that we've looked at their functions in particular very of course and appear geared to specific problems of their time and place one virtue of the excursion and african tribal politics in my judgment was to observe the marginal takes the marginal cases where the security and welfare problems generated

did not require several institutions human beings organized themselves to deal with their essential social requirements in the first instance without them we also saw what the first case was a welfare function maybe the provisions by the more organized african tribes of the provision by the ruler of food for the hungry and that our spirit second we've seen the contours of constitutional systems shaped and changed by the interplay of welfare and security requirements with a lot of security requirements planet a critically important part in determining the part that was developed by governments the complexity of their

organization and the kind of political groupings that emerged we see this from the zoo's on down to the regional impact we see the resource requirements for security objectives as an instrument for seen over extension disaster in the case of this century athens and wrote a short period of time and ultimately an imperial rule against a background of economies which did not develop sustained growth the chinese state or will also engaged and i'm actually in war may have been more fundamentally shaped by the requirements for public works rather than by security requirements although once whatever is the chinese state became committed to managing so fast there and so large population obviously requirements for both internal external security

became a large part of the state functions and we see the possibility at least until we get country evidence that the cyclical pattern of the chinese empire with the interplay between the strength of government viability possibly feared to him often seen psycho although as in the case of rome we do not ride fluctuations in the quality of rule itself somehow build and to be a capacity of man and the institutions they've built and their reactions of perhaps perhaps having something inherently a degenerative over period of time third we find a wide range of political institutions and balances between freedom and authority and the organized anarchy of certain african problems too brief passages of highly

limited real democracy and republican we see a flexible the centralized rule of the confusion empires giving large by the family and regional like an individual tell you see the hard driving that we fool of the chamber and the desperate oppressive move back we shouldn't seeking to sell its roman empire at this stage in the seminar it suffices barely noticed becca you know the spectrum out that draw conclusions about it except perhaps the tendency in peril system is under strain to bring about increasingly dictatorial rule before the collapse was one other aspect of constitutional politics which i didn't introduce except in talking about one african crime namely the problem of succession as you read the history of these societies you can see that man our

drama under certain circumstances to place a great deal of authority in the hands of one man was supposed to look after the interests of state there is an indian in the long sweep of history a strong tendency to do this and then you see of course named hedging that granted power boat with various checks and balances but when you do this when you do place the authority to stay in the hands of one man you see what an enormous problem orderly succession it and a great deal of the turbulence and the history of the past is taken up with the complexities of the inherent difficulties of finding an orderly succession when you build the powers of the

state government in a sense redefine around a single individual so as we can see in this range of human experience a link between the state of technology and the scale and complexity but the political organizations that would be not to see also link between the state of technology and the scale efficiency of warfare we see warfare in an air of multiple sovereignty use has woven inextricably into the life of politics and government and must reluctantly and even sadly agree with radcliffe brown's observation at least a good path on the history of global development he says is in one way or another industry awards we also see that even under conditions of relative peace the dynamics of economic social and political life did not permit the maintenance in a steady state roads that used to be a large empires or a stable chinese dynasties

we see in these pre victorian times a large part played by the fact that the technological ceiling even if that ceiling was rather high and technology quite complex as it was in rome and chat room after the great unanswered question for mankind's feature that supposed that eliminated sovereignty in the age of modern science and technology goodman even then maintain stable government peace and prosperity is men but men capable of steady organize life even if the scourges of war and scarcity are lifted from it that is the question essentially raised bites you like a non economic theories of the decline of the roman empire and by the fear the chinese dynasties

that's obviously not a question to be answered here and props not apartheid it's whispering to find out to locals and now no the answer is in fact government's goal of the challenge in terms of little about as you look back a series of tales of the country this morning the illustrations questions and also the cave before week one of the groups are classes as if perhaps others kong we'll have to

see you saw the lax in their responsibilities that there was not enough technology or that you know this technology in our business only because of that causation i would be cautious have causation when you're dealing with a k and the whole civilization we're talking about everything from at its ability to sustain sovereignty over the country which staked out to the situations are and changes is really just that for us but in the south you were really the question that i posed for ross the settlement and twenty these are men who are

committed against a simple issue but they didn't just as they went through this whole story they came to a perception that if there was a technology which could have produced on the line with these big states an increase in food production these people feel that the sunnis would remain then dickens novels the support of the state were actually involved in this that this would lead to an economy which will generate the resources so the vitality of the forces on the front here that if i'm in pain i'm inclined to say this is a story which cannot be fully understood unless it's within the framework of these technological districts that's where we're going

but i'm leaving open both in the house in history and is that the only question i just put it another matter and which i don't have any sense whether human beings are the institutions that create i would experience decline and fall even if there are no more and no secret that we may have to prove if you're very successful in other words to put it a more narrowly is the chinese theory of the last cycle correct that period of peace and prosperity and the seeds of failure and not because of technological solutions not because the ira barber and just because men can sustain for long periods of time or a government even if they have the resources but there's no doubt in my mind that the particular contours of the greek and roman chinese stowaways were affected by the

speculative history but it stopped the only all that operate in an area where i discuss the rise in europe he related to the idea of money the inquiry of money as an end in itself exception of china the greek and the roman situation had reached a point with a mercantilist of the merchants of the bolshoi theatre this club this previously disenfranchised her own franchise class became very wealthy demanding their participation are broadening the markets and money they've become you know interesting and

i would say that politics in color of interweave in the story of empire i think that charles wilson's phrase of which evokes the whole work and closed approach which is really what women describing in the in the greek isn't it is his exact because for barclay's for example perkins throwing his weight we have to simplify the origin of the artisans as intensely landowners in more conservative groups are presented by clean he did not do this because he was he was interested

in you and i've taken away out of the what was at stake even for the leaders of the democratic party was not money in a narrow sense it was that the difficulty of their conceiving of an alternative way to run their society was for an individual wars when us but they could not conceive of it we withdraw from government entity they cannot conceive of a situation in which the oars women artisans built up by the rise of trade and billing in the navy i could not answer the question what would these people do and if we bring back a lot of their jobs but so that the domestic politics and the organization the society we came here to we have

the continued expansion of the empire into list world in which you find is and interweaving there are very much with the athenians that is to say you needed trade but if you didn't get somebody else would get unworthy the trade would go a power that might suddenly this was the kind of internet interconnection between profit and park which led to the sport in the end take on athens or support was not at that time in starkly aggressive mood i think in short that there's no doubt that employers will building trades but because some people are interested in getting more money but i think they're a very complex interesting interests of state here relating to the security of the state of the power of a meeting

room to the welfare of society and russian unemployment what people would do if they did not have these outlets and even the questions of where the treasury notes resources because in athens that import export duty yes obviously employers link with interesting people are making money through training but i don't think that's the spirit profound observations it gets a rise in shift power balance within a system because of a change in their domestic importance among don't they also take on a greater portion in determining a defining the goal of the state's precisely that's why introduced last week the slippage with business with corrupt and rigid about that the interesting inside it too was rather than a

mcdonald's politics are between a rising sector and grow a rising sector in athens was the commerce and they lock activity along with it the artisans who might defect or they didn't have any case there is no doubt they are interests and revealed a new i think it underlined with the commitment of paraguay used empire is the prime objective state policy in the making as well in a part of the world but these things need to be out and imperialistic if you will and business practices of corporations in the united states in the twentieth century terms where trade of course has extended far beyond the

territorial boundaries of this country and at the moment so it's one can look at the motives behind the core these various corporations either or establishing separate entities on in foreign countries or just increasing their trade from the national base i mean is it for fun and profit or is it for profit or are they truly concerned with the welfare of the individual or the state except in the excerpt in a circular motion and how it's going to come back to them motives of individual men who'd been involved in big corporations and then they enter his mentor get satisfaction out of whatever career they choose but corporations in our society we're responsible for their stockholders always expect them to make money

that's the way our system set up and they are engaged in competition with other corporations who resigned do the same thing and we have to conclude that it's quite efficient way to carry a lot of businesses signed it so long as the crew there is competition that there's not competition which means the profits or ira they're held within the reasonable levels and it's not that elements of supervision we've had interrogated so i don't think his industry is to why general motors establishes plants and work anywhere else injured or no forces an expansionist a policy on the part of the corporations profit is the money that's right and i don't i think that the weaknesses that we innocently walking to do which is to

recycle them as the rise in this type of adventure would coincide with the goal of millions in hand visions of foreign policy has been determined i will separate to me i would just discussed that in strictly the cooperation at this point just in that business terms i wasn't in the century mystic well they have gone out and conquered market if you will the competition with local folks i'm very confident all right corporations

and diversification security cooperation to maximize their profits this battle over a period of time and that may be diversifying some of their subject one marketer one cycle so that really a few introduced it the state and the state of this that this increase in merchants and train and kept control of resources sources and certainly the united states in the viability of the united states has a lot to do with how well they yeah money economy and the financial

situation so it has tried to be a future of the state yes with him tied in many ways for example on january first nineteen sixty eight about sixty miles from where we announced a balance of payments progress that they felt that was the united states which had for the most severe restraints on the flows of capital cross can take money in and out of the country and time periods you know so it looks like we're really freezing at controlling it but they still made it so it had some impact but my point is that is true that the interests of the united states but the nation do not necessarily with certain shyness in certain places

on balance looking at the world or we'd rather see more private capital freetown going to indian other asian a chemical fertilizer plant are desperately needed to fight the battle for food than to float in terms of large stadium just to europe canada japan but that so that i would serve the interests of the united states as a nation in the world are very much more complex that anything like the simple link between parody of the origin of artists that's you of your thousands of security welfare and constitutional order as prime goals of the state which doesn't necessarily involve the state having a profit motive that since then but the corporations do is prop

man and might support a state going or security welfare and order if it in a sense you know benefited curse or whatever it is they're doing it reconcile then two ns one nonprofit medical as we are not always going to reconcile itself i mean it's obvious from the united states and have severe about the payment process which is teetering on the verge of hysteria anyhow in europe without the practices and the motives and that drives a big operations in what they deem is very essential practices to make money because that's one of the laws switch it

can to reconcile the public purpose to capital export it's it's a complicated calculus because one of the great strengths of us about this is the end interest profit made abroad but us firms at fullback and strengthen in the short run the floor was abroad also as i say we can have situations where our state interests there soon might want to encourage flows in one direction of another but that the reason you have law and regulation is trying to bring in subprime loans in the public interest but sometimes a convergence of virgin little bit of variation you'd probably get along as if the representatives and people or a protest of the government in other words that the government doesn't expect

or groups inside to be motivated by the interest and balances which have to be struck too to keep a nation what it does is this hope that these compromise to help some extent through the large political parties and if there's a residual conflict law and regulation of those directions see why there's an assumption here that we have a government like any other which is trying to reconcile some complex and not necessarily usually supporting actress for constitutional order and justice welfare security that's its job but every unit which deals in society is not in their level best is really pushing its own interests in the cast of the balance in reconciling of those as well the link that i'm trying to

make is that among the key or one of the key reason she gave or the destruction or self destruction by the old order a city state or athens that the fight is over extension or inability to maintain well which lead to disorders but how is it that two questions in mind either the men who are making decisions in our days are too much tied by history and do not have enough imagination to deal with the current problems of the technical nuclear age and the nuclear mentality which might lead to were analogous

situations in the century of what has gone and hundreds and hundreds of years ago lack of acceptance of scientific attitude so you are one of the analogies i really wanna know what are the analogies because what i'm thinking of or what i got none of this lecture in the reading i've made that analogous to our lifetimes no historical analogies is going to be exact but as a cyclist or noaa shake it so i was quite cautious this picture overexpansion and the clash between welfare and security objectives in these societies would raise questions and was

thrown when a lot of the rule on the question whether or not the society's over i would say these things first and if you look at the clip that tactically societies the overextended but mostly in the sixties the sixties i'm a lower proportion of gnp and look expenditures does despite the war and then we have to get it but this is not a sufficient information so we also were society which is undergoing a very high rate of increase and gnp so the resources becoming available for texas or increasing the nurses were arrested the third question however is a third thing i would say that in my judgment the problem of getting a larger allocation of resources the city says is not a

problem of the oil between the war in vietnam about expenditures those expenditures i wish it were so because then i'd be confident i think often when the war is over that we would get a very large increase in expenditures for the city's wealthier and i hope i'm wrong is that there is a very deep restraints in the cubs with respect to our patients to welfare of this kind of similar to the restraints on the allegations for me for a very large part of our society than the city's afford a program and there as you know a lot of folks are wealthier and as i look at the numbers and others i do not see over streams as i look at the numbers i do not see a lack of resources efficiently against that and see respect the iron out of a very good question

that the sense in which i think there's overstretched is something like this are people are not an isolationist movement a lot of talk about it but basically american citizens are sensible and knowledgeable and take long who wants to play along who look at the world satellite communications with nuclear weapons an actor as a worthy projects coming they know this is the planet is getting closer together up being really pulled apart and ensure that other children to be more involved in the world even there but there is an age and i were identified out of my experience like to be wrong as this americans have a feeling that they

have borne too long and excessively lonely bird in trying to help manage the security affairs of the world that's an illusion and foreign aid are doing a worse job in terms of our lower proportion of the many other listeners were slaves like the japanese slowly putting more that is essentially if i would try to identify and i'm not as representatives of people watch dogs people say look we didn't get out of the world of building with a white settlers were kind of there are in the world the best job i'm in and prosperity that's a job in which a lot more followers to be a lot more of the burden than we are a member of a lightning flash in her eyes this thing was revealed by a small incident which

i've told my ear bakker there was danger in the congo that population control thousand europeans be slaughtered these really started because the families were humiliated by his band of mercenaries and this just went up and that was the only response to is a poetry humiliation what the congolese government needed or c three c one thirty aircraft to transport their bagels troops to this there until the mercer state of the lyric that we tried to get the europeans and those freezing one very good rays but the problem is human beings rule out and they were so they're so president johnson sent i guess is a way to see one elected the job the

person's white man's health the rebel movement was quoted of that sort of not take place where serious gradually pushed out now what was revealed there was the incapacity psychologically and politically of europeans taking only minor burn in the middle east crisis europeans were there a week and one of the reasons for the states of the european and since japanese withdrawal leaving excessive burden for the state how president johnson in was very conscious of this process in the last three years his administration took a whole set of steps that was a central theme of foreign policy in sixty six sixty seven sixty eight to build an alternative between excess us axis of us commit an isolationist based on partnership unfair shares a week we change things to allow prisoners to

help train stations to again to support it is now a consortium of literature is and that is why he has pushed wheat ridge us because he wants to help the world with others take more responsibility and we can withdraw not isolationist but to being junior partners in a small way i was an instrument of this in the crp an american ports i talked to president johnson as a job and sixty four more sleepovers at influencing which there's latin american chairman the success of one north america and congress isn't said that the us loans rebate on the basis of recommendations they can recover conditions of the cia so something well something to improve the right proportions and one instruction there

was to be a junior partner and that's why as johnson spend so much effort going to reach in asia for the long haul the only speech every american have to point over to it it's on the radio stations would ripple up and africans to design more their own destiny their us tour a serious question of them or walk away from a quote super suits legitimately raised why americans of our time listen to this table i do not think we're in a position again where military expenditures are beyond our capacity they're not rising as a proportion gop their foe and it was arranged by historical standards of the korean workers and i do not believe that the resources available for welfare in this society substantially inhibited boy politics poachers because i am a

public expenditures will lead to an increase in warfare but i wish it were so and in the battle to get that position an important part of the bridge but it's not for sure i do think that there's a sense of those in the american people and it's a legitimate sense that because our role in the world is not empire but to try to fulfill the only job worth doing which is slowly to build a stable peace that we ought to be working more fair share spaces that we have in the past and that is the direction which oddly i think both policy has been moved nothing will continue that's right that's much change so you're like to talk about is your discussion of china or chinese dynasties do mention the chinese dynasty

perhaps the best or least a very good example of a society in which you have this technological see exist that means essentially having only ten pound questions though given this so called sort of a chinese state that has a second golden age and the eventual the uk which is in power in the process you know that possibility there's a strong possibility of this happening in a society where the state now there are not a lot of constraints that sense in other words the point was that in that within the city ks a certain no decline of more around so for that i feel that this decline in raw spinach just as obvious in a society where there are no technological constraints on us right now well that's the real

question i do know that the human race has had to leave its time on earth and environment where most human beings were struggling against the margins of scarcity and secondly most of the human race has had to live in an environment where once it was killing people from either side so that we're in scarcity have been the historic framework in which we've evolved a good deal of what we're trying to do in the world is a traveler from man these two stages the mistake scarcity member last time i read you a passage from the state's economic growth a decade old in which i just posts where what man what man will lose

himself if you have scarcity from progressive a certain margin and that is the great unanswered question that is the question that marks raised in the rig initial basic definition of communism he had this scarcely would go through socialism then you get a time when goods and services were free and then he had this grand vision of work being a human necessity in and then you have companies which was a great society or something where palm scarcely we're not settled on the audience and he had a rather romantic nineteenth century german vision of the suddenly coming about and even a very clear answer no i said there was i didn't know whether what men would do with that situation for a surgeon question will the devil make

work for idle hands that aura man find some kind of balance life hunt and fish and shooting the pursuit of cultures going to the moon sold enough to give him a lively interest that that's the that's one answer that's one question well we'll landrieu scarcity is not a central in the fighting against their specific concerns again about war is another question i suppose we did manage to get the world of arms control where you really did it together we're living as the charter of the united nations says each side without or arbitrating disputes having politics lively international politics but without conflict and kelly what would happen to the international community i mean that is what might relate to the first question as to what people would you know in our time unfortunately we haven't yet lifted the dangers of war and though we haven't

lifted from our people a scourge of poverty ellis literacy to the extent you can do it and so those of us who believe that there is an inherent gooden an individual human beings having more of a chance to live them in health and educating develop their quality still feel those jobs lot of the bill and the questions be a lot of there are great ones and i said i don't know the answer fifty five thank you that growth came in his book

was often that are chinese faced and gadgetry in only about automobiles and who are so concerned with these songs now just superficial things are not putting enough of our resources into our destabilizing forces such as education and things like that so isn't there also a problem in determining exactly right in your society you consider crucial to the stability of the us that's right even ten years ago define the central problem for the future of the united states not in terms of further extension of the automobile the seal who wants to get those people who want to go out but if you look at that whole complex vote do consumers the oatmeal this is a curve that is already there and it's

decelerating partners like the show the british columnist the late nineteenth century where the big expenditures are in and in infrastructure and housing in schools and education in trouble and the things ago the quality of life in other words in the market in the simple market mechanisms you can see people voting for quality of society just look at the rise and motor boats sailing boats i mean are people really at this stage will give it off by themselves and their family in song quiet setting the kind of incidents were built means end up in politics too in politics today and there's debate every day but if you look at that the direction in which our expenditures for medicine for education to take to a quality sectors of the expanding very rapidly they had been in many ways a growth sectors now you may want to see

more and less citizens week we struggling to get the balance is we won't but what i'm saying is essentially wrong and in the marketplace in the private markets you can see him in allocating their private income in new it is and today in the marketplace of politics our system this one was perfect democracy but it's reflecting also these new directions of interest and concern the postal really though that that was not only the side to hit by some very repressive he get fed up with bacon because they are it really does groups and the leadership you get tired of success using an alternative to six hours

which doesn't end it which is an alternative to the successful this could be applied to several types of them successful government are successful economic structure successful society i think we're seeing the select take place right now admit perhaps in a novel disturbed group as a the research question i was re reading a senator or estrogen actually ended rather acid comment by my good friend and colleague alex gershon on the sweep of history at harvard and my introduction into the stages of economic growth of thomas bond's novel and a great respect and affection for art but i don't accept his notion of this is irrelevant to the life even economic sectors or in society as a whole it's in the coup from blue book says the only answer i can

give to your question a seal it says take a moment and i remember the story the story of the generations in which showed the first generation as i recall makes money but i sit here selling supplies to the russian army in the boy pours things after money second generation born taking money for granted and goes for civics stature since you were last year and he help from the symphony orchestra in the family firm doesn't dictate that doesn't lot of rapid growth for women feared generations born with money and civic stature and he's often plays a violent dies young know what's behind this is it is a very important principle if it's true which is that each generation and economist white places a margin utility

on that aspect of human life which it has in abundance and and throws its efforts into increasing its income in the wider sense psychic sense in directions where its satisfactions have not been met now are you can take it there so that second generation in the bloomberg says does not expand his energy i'm getting more money in reserves that in the desert and six the satisfactions of being a leader in the community and the un for a third generation assuming that money as they're listening the positions they're in and just develop a private telecom law it may be

the generation which he was born into a world in which her the notion of oppression is often well the origin assume that somehow the public and private authorities great big a situation with a job your questions to choose a job most interesting and that's not literally not a great enterprise and he assumes also that education american colleges struggle very hard for so and looking back on earlier american generations neither these things were for sure and the struggle of work for in fact that they were major objective get yourself a good job and give yourself a good education it yourself or you start with that it's not very difficult to the city of the world's knowledge that people take those things for them

say well the real thing in our laws shorter pepys is no truth you the actual expression possible my own unique personality some sort of private way so i don't know i i am inclined to think we have that there are four generations in particular straight of society something like this process diminishing role of margin utility going to what you've got and then to search for your home which they're higher rates vote margin and that's that's what the blue books but alex expresses to me that maybe something of that in our society are built after the liberation of a take off and then mass consumption and then beyond my here's a really interesting questions to ask you see an awful lot of the

vitality of society it is maintained by the coming into bloom in one of the secrets of the vitality of british society over the years to maintain the surface of the minor chord song the telephone a history of british social history will show that they're steamy few families and what you might call the british establishment which go back very far british side effects bluff to take the neumann absorb them bring them into the university's latter years and let them take her place is among those looking after the whole society it's very subtle reports it processed just kept that island of the political and social the body and you can track where they came from in seeking central's by sectors so that always been the center of the new group on the lake

and they have given who break vitality the same but i think a good deal of that starting a loser the jacksonian victory over the first generation of the founding fathers and so we have that in our society and i think one part of the race problem united states it's a complex problem with many dimensions but one part of a very hustle and familiar which are some of the younger negroes and gardens of the education are driving hard for full stature for acceptance for role as others have before them the yo with as you say oh what happens where you really get the dynamism if everybody's got to mark this and there are huge huge get an a couple where we assume that our plate number

this is where the virtues of looking at marginal case you know with a couple of marginal cases of society's the hidden iran that we've been trying to define some of the elements of the outer limits and being properly cautious about saying shots of valium restoration of the well because there may be more to more to it than a morally human problem i like to applaud this building brooks syndrome to warfare and this generation it seems that we have reached the ultimate success in warfare or a stage of achievement in warfare potential for total destruction of mankind are there for this generation is no longer interested in pursuing something which we have in abundance virginia generation i just

thought well i can use a banal but i don't i think that it's just in general jackson around with a limited war at all or any kind of warfare because it's only now to do it that way when the ultimate you know thing is really going to wipe us all out without you know wasting much time doing in this country is not seen thousands or are hundreds and hundreds of young men to a foreign country to avoid being actively engaged in this for whatever reason i think that they are saturated they've reached a saturation point in abundance in this area of social political and economic activity and they're what's happening though is that they're not in the position of making decisions

those who are in a position of making decisions maybe a generation ahead grown up on warfare where it had not reached the ultimate level it's no well warfare ultimate capacity to destroy it totally whatever and it seeks to destroy so that there's a tremendous difference in the pursuit of goals or what should be you know the idea of what should be pursued as a goal as an activity for society god the words in his book making it recalls distinctly that even at the time of the korean war when he was old enough to enlist or be drafted it still was under the same mentality that penetrating the country during world war ii and

dignified for all able bodied young men not to be in the army and it was still quite acceptable an unquestioning thing to do even if fifty two and fifty three this is his observations as and he's comparing it with what you have today so that why not use the same syndrome or something that's seems to be increasingly gripping this country are so is the one source of dissent or distance and will support the other if only to form some kind of coalition against a larger group which means you're a real racial problems minority problems will be joined by those who are against wars and humidity in retaining

distinctions of how to deal with these things that i was i was raised in a generation that the reason we were to movies and then the head of the values of the succession battle and there were also i was also raised in the age of mass communication are like insects and so the rest of the world what they wanted with the dictatorship there's more concern our minds that that that the real front is

that you mentioned were working on this or that that i know a big concern for four i was a look into the future i want to get back in and then there's this other wes moore in the new frontiers in a society where we're more challenging and more ways more scary and that most of the things that they're getting the best lawyer in vietnam for survival in terms of the wooden derricks in the american league our position i'm were i think there were people who are young

people who are eager to see advancement in my case two wars possibly serve as a necessity which it's not the end the police say were in response to a question that there are of course americans who've looked at this war and the way you describe it is the first war in which we have had very deep set and even the civil war was one that we had the draft prospects but the fundamental question arises that affected what you said is that the years some younger people i think we've all got to be careful in speaking for generations generations are very complicated and not conform your generous of it rejects for study tested this implies as some

other generation likes horror and visitors certainly my generation which grew up in the depression and trained a lot of it's me and fourteen social science women do better for society and human beings and society at their houses were subjected to the realities of war in the second world war the korean war you know i don't think i know of any any generation in our history more disliked or knows more about it and nobody knew who seems like people like it so you cannot answer you can oppose the debate in our country in the form of those who like or those who don't or those who think it's good actually the question that i saw

two presidents face and the recommendation for president what is the alternative and not being prepared to fight in southeast asia that's what they have to what the president kennedy and president johnson had every reason of both personal and political objective to vote or in southeast asia but in measuring all the consequences which i will not going to hear it very reluctantly in conflict is that what they have to do all the costs of the situation that isn't a few if you understand our mysteries and that is what the presidents of the united states to decide if you put it that way the rational

discussion of the reasons why they came to those decisions and i don't think they should pick up more time here i'll be glad when the mule privately some occasionally that that's the yeah i would simply urged that it not be looked upon as a question of differing generational attitudes toward war or likes or dislikes are not calling for generations but because of the votes that the level of the state of warfare from generation to generation certainly was different from from now say the war between france germany's and eighty seven piece band was nineteen point lead bit different the state of technological savvy enough not so much from midcentury

to first world war you got the tag and then on a bill but they're pretty efficient at killing each other and with american civil war for example the first world war a lot of this technology too long to kill as many in world war one so it you know it can shorten the actual length of a warhead or four years one workers were very advanced country influence a lot less advanced and we taught primarily in terms of political development occurring unless advance country but i think you we have a case workers in this country as an insurance as opposed to see i would agree

with you and i've tried to emphasize ruth westheimer and today the conduct of war itself as payback affects only welfare and constitutional balance in the state of convincing the asian warfare and that really is a good part of the tale of news today of how you have these playback effects from the security on to the welfare cost to fuel sides of government from torsos nothing remarkable i think i mean there's nothing to save the bees and conflict with the structure as for the effects of the intrusions one country on another more advanced and what's advanced i was weeding out yesterday for particularly about ten minutes i was doing on a pad and trying to state the proposition that this relationship in terms of

being an orderly way i don't have your paper all i do two boxes of the same size maybe i assumed what in effect the parkinson's east west hypothesis is if you strip and there is it was at the games a certain economic and therefore a military ascendancy over the island the expense of the contract oh it hurts me really ok to attack because the playback on its economy and its political life if it's on a large scale apart disintegrating way so the longer an effect there's different threat to be the longer run effect on diesel or pastas to expand it and so he gets

what he calls is great and in east and west one side sees itself with an advantage it's a call of east and west for oil in east or west east goes west the effect is that it weakens its own fabric economic political but by intruding on the west and also when the west tries to balance how the west it's gotten arrested back in hip hoppers east now it's obviously sick it's not as simple as that only affects can be faxed in indiana war like the british napoleonic wars which is searching for which did not come true widely held to accelerate the development of british public but it was a war which by a series of actions did not weaken it significantly minority and really were apparently as was trying to do after his first threw over extension was to find a formula within the imperial system to make them

that would be livable and not over strain but i have generally speaking a year to come to grips with your question there are two facts are talking about a four one the reaction to intrusion by the offended or defeated party and by the way i would get myself in shape sew it will not happen again like for example into action after it's humiliation in nineteen sixty two in the china border big increase voter expenditure in serious motif into a very different and you know tree posture in nineteen sixty five or the factual question because that's one reaction and the other is of course the playback effects of the victorious and these are all building or system should be on

expanding the only reason we know is what happened in the publication of that island no sense saying the parkinson's theory of the empire's at least in the west something about accepting or projecting the future of driving it to clarify what

was the mechanism isn't that relates to this notion of the two effects of intrusion at the bottom of the facts that educational situations in the same region without the application before moving to know that government is actually defined in terms of security and the commission and that now is their definition investigate security will test the education activist well if you go

down into the midst of america's modernization no differentiation subsistence economy that secularization may be the less he's the major modernization was all that campaign and those examples of societies funded by state owned some of this rather chilling kinds of exhibitions on the season whether the changes the changes in the past though as it was with the specific

intent to give the last that was his arm just indicate possible difficulty with market that was one thing all of the fire station for example what about the question of the last two centuries make emphasis on substance and way different kinds of pollutants on and on there for instance a great deal of that was an awesome relation to state relations is no longer possible and they tried that so the bottom

of it something has changed in history started that issue of like who has it says that that is now howling like you two questions changes in the past government insurance that the task the content of security and welfare and constitutional problems which incidentally include justices was ordered to change it will be looking at changing definitions with the pastor time what causes change secondly the question of whether the state does imply uniformity the answer is the uniformity in which one sees but i see in the stadiums is over very now range spent some time in and taking the stage is for example and trying to show the variety for example the leading sectors in takeoff or the variety of the patterns of technological maturity so

what you're doing is is is starting with a world which you assume to be highly differentiated was a meaningful sense that every country like every human being is unique and simply trying to to perceive elements of uniformity which give you a chance to cross compare of the patterns of difference though conservative of course the context of paying any kid in its development does is different from the context of eighteenth century britain and i don't think that's a point that needs labor and anyone any case pretending fearing that was going to say that you are elements of those two societies their problems are all stages are similar would be taken

seriously by anyone to question though is that but if you look at the other tasks of a pre conditions africa there are elements that are so they are focused on getting transfer they are focused on getting a modern education systems which the british got from the scots a new memoir the elements that adam smith said their mission enter enter into is the improvement in this eloquent oxford cambridge system so they are still in infrastructure and education so the beginnings of them foreign trade and that they're looking to their equivalent of the first major industrial sir that's a very limited view of the international environments different the way they get their funds the possibilities of trade in an empire are different but that doesn't mean because we perceive these extreme differences that we should also not perceive certain limited elements of uniformity but like you're suggesting that

across compare if they're asking you to do taking it out of the historical model which is essentially an attempt to dynamite commodity futures were to ask you know initially you are suggesting i'm a say humans interview last statement that the stages of growth would have to be at least initially or for some time analyzing turn in absolute terms regarding that particular country it states the growth in relationship to where it was at that point a weird that point the center but only relationship to itself oh the stages of growth analysis from the world and this was just forestall any serious historian

has to be done in the context of interaction this community that is why a book on economic growth contains a whole chapter on the relationship of growth to warfare and you get the question plenty of a grayish color colonial movement and its possible consequences and sell solar up hearing examining itself its colonial experience its internal ization of warfare experience tell me what you think you are well i am not sure if i'm saying this correctly as seeing it as a as a form of absolute measurement which is a virtual impossibility if you accept an international system was no absolutely no attempt to cure which are trying to do is to get some kind of

oregon organized insights into the most complex humans to show it and international enterprise intellectual life is concerned with the problem with creating ways of looking at things but to give you a certain limit in order to answer questions which you were others may judge that we're talking about is what the society's go through as they change themselves so they're capable of absorbing and making available for people interstate the fruits of modern science and technology that's really what it was about and then what one of the cost for the consequences of the whole process the revolutionary process they're going to have i'm just making a list of the things that are involved

in talking about the precondition spirit which will be out next time in the thinking in its first days the french revolutions part of the revolution making thirty in a way the warmth of the united states is part of ricocheting effect of the french revolutionary napoleonic wars which is you know at all way to moscow and then destroy the us syrian regime and the family erupt is part of it in that world and a vital part of the help asia's the opening up of china and japan the opium wars are occurring seven ships an awful lot of this oral history which is called coffee exactly the car society's changed or richie could bring the owners observe different

than a lot of science technology and apply them have so it's a hit so it's a big chunk of its total history instant uniformity as one can perceive different agrees with me which was euphoric than one can perceive or over relatively now rain but that's always going to be a true piece of order i guess that's off the buses leave this question of that unless you hear the country will expect to our house and be unfortunate that there's fish do you know six westlake dr don kettl raptors seven thirty thank you

he's going to be killed