Texas Weekly; Violence in the Classroom

i'm kenny and rehearsal question and answer session between members of the state's working press and a prominent figure in the new year is your moderator bob davis on february eighth and ninth the texas attorney general's office will sponsor a conference on solutions to violence in the public schools this conference is intended for school board members for school administrators for teachers parents and members of the general public one of the goals of the conference is to draft a code of conduct a code of behavior which not only protects the legal rights of students in the schools but also defines their legal obligations with us today to talk about the general problem of violence in the public schools as attorney general mark white joining us also are dr libby vernon director a professional excellence for the texas classroom teachers association and mr john bible director of legal services for the texas association of school boards

welcome to texas weekly let's talk first about the general problem of violence in the schools mr attorney general what prompted your office to get involved in our conference of this kind of what kind of evidence do you have what kind of problems do you see which prompted this softly first of all we've all salinas reports from reclining into the secondary students i think that after having been through a lengthy campaign having talk with people across the state have been a single uniform thought to solve this problem can be attributed to a lot of discipline or lack of discipline in the question after having talked with parents and teachers and in many cases even students about what the problems were i thought that we had and the study due to get an overall grasp of what the images of the problem we're in past week what we can do to solve a problem that reason i wear for this conference and i'm looking forward to having the benefit of what i consider to be

one of five panels and a group of contributors who covers urban a similar survey what you're going to do that is to define the problem first and then suggests some possible solutions the bicyclist ruined been this is uncovered which i promise will be not just another conference we have so many of those covers is or an unproductive this is gonna be one which are thinking of committing to make certain that there will be a work product in something which can be used to hopefully it will be unilaterally a legal statement in which you know we can sign a legal responsibility of parents teachers school administrators what they can and cannot do that is not present thought well it's not well a fan of like we found more uncertainty in the classroom as the teacher not knowing exactly what though he or she can do fearful of being sued own party her parents are fearful of being in a marshal parliament's tradition for

they're specific back and try mine kind of telling our classroom teachers need to be supported and need to be backed up and they need to be informed baum keeping them on for more on what's expected in vacuum about like we can start to instill new attitude was to our question but dr vernon how the classroom teachers feel about the problem of what they perceive it as much as a focus of their promises to white dots are is they certainly do this consideration gets into much deeper problem for teachers be going to this deal because we want to teach children you cannot teach an atmosphere of fear a reticence and an inability of communicating without feeling threatened behind it we want to teach and we cannot teach when we're not sure of what can be expected of our youngsters man that's what kinds of things are going on in the schools which prompted concerns or

some instances that i might mention a child who did not finish her class where the teacher was faced with a threat of violence and the parent unless the grade was changed in another instance teacher ask a child say right to work with him because there were not finishing their work not grasping the word intent the teacher is to assist the town when the child came after school it came with barry switzer it's the physical violence to the teacher so these kinds of things in what in the past we had considered apart on this one teacher's porch going to stay right to work and happy youngster turned into a thread on her personal safety in another instance is very simple discipline matters have been blown out of proportion and teachers have concerns are these problems of the large city schools metropolitan schools or is this problem across the state of texas it's very widespread there is there's no skill no community that is totally immune there are more people in the urban areas

the nature you have more problems there but we have had violent since moscow says well as those middle sized communities they're affluent and then of course use read in the newspaper daily about problems in the urban areas because media coverage is very heavy as turn to another aspect the problem at john bible your position is somewhat unique in the symposium you'll be talking about case law you'll be talking about the legal rights of students the legal obligations that of educators to educate how do you resolve this tension potential tension between the legal rights of the students and the obligations of the educator and the rights of the educator fleur think they answered a hatter is all that is what were attempting to determine as a result of the conference i think the thing that that seems important me is it not enough emphasis has been placed upon the legal obligations of students most of the case law in fact all of the case law dating back from the taker vs been

one case a nineteen sixty nine which is really the seminal state rights case the case was repeatedly emphasizes school administrator says sufficiently with forty to deal with these types of this nerd prom migration and talking with people around the state in the school community is that there is widespread misunderstanding and just exactly what the cases of certain white house on these difficult cases say well what can and an administrator do what are the rights of the spit out the earth the case is basically have said that you must balance if you said the legal obligation to stay and forces their rights that the case law recognizes didn't have certain rights for instance the right to speak freely to symbolic expression things of this nature of the cases also emphasize that these riots have to be minimized have to be limited in the interests of others in the schools and they won a worst in engages in some type of candidate might be disruptive that might be harmful to others there's an obligation on par the school administration to take necessary this prairie action in order to correct the problem and do that i think a code of conduct will go a long way towards doing it

are you have to remember the trustees in the public schools and school administrators are not lawyers and as i said there is this misunderstanding of the case law people seem to assume that because one or two cases were decided against the school district all of a sudden they're desperate forty years then wrote it that there is just not there anymore and so they're seeking guidance they're seeking something tangible and concrete that they can look at something is as gentle why was saying that they can turn to that that that the teachers know that support will be forthcoming from the administration the code is not going to be obligatory it's something for school districts to work with it appears in the starting point to work with her to affect solutions in their own lives it's what kinds of things if attorney general might be an accord what might the specific statements be in the croat i think you'd the purpose of the study by johns to bring over a about his experiences into focus over the problem and surly the specific you're looking at will be drafted as a result of our coffers are don't get cat into any format here in the us it this

preliminary stage basically all five or will be looking at issues they've set of some overly simplistic gnarly lifting constitutional enforceable standards that can be given to them opposed to history for their review they're the adoption that they can then work with the students work with the administrators and teachers and parent and that it will set out the substantive an important this printer sitters were talking about and what happens next to the levels of dust the very activity that can be implemented love first to search for a certain lack of certain type of misconduct the trade in a certain fashion and stood nose and that there's no world slippage hear that in a world ruled with this term will forget this term it'll be something that rubio well known all around well and forties when four i think that will tend to build that respect for the us

reserve one group you did not mention that we've been in a tennis and his coverage your plan are still a matter of roma have students here isn't point we haven't thought about what these rules regulations would do to them and their attitude toward them if we give student support for the largely alumni probably have students are on a different artists summer of any other law in societies coal industry wanted needed to have combined interest but for most it turned into this infringing on the rights of state and just in the last three years we've included students here because we won't get their thoughts as well as the you know the legal authority enunciated as to what student rights are they have greater rights to bail out is a writer now and i think it's important that this code writing that it because i think it's embarrassing to administrators do if human regulation which of course details to bring

jennifer spoke fluent russian how do you feel about the voluntary nature of this kind of approach to going to work for you know possibly about it the teachers that one foreigners they should come from all over this state and they have a very different set of situations i would agree with john with the attorney general wanted to have one that would fit in a one room with that everybody in the forest of the repressive to our students and we won a learning the freedom to learn for youngsters the other thing i would point out is that that touched upon issues that we face daily in that administration reluctant to backup teachers in some cases not because they feel that teachers are an era but because they really don't know what'll happen if the press the nation that explore this is to make you feel that the authority the teacher has been eroded in the past few years instead of texas you feel they're not getting the backing of

administrators you suggest this i would say not from a purposeful situation that simply because administrators are not sure of where they stand up sure what they can get back the teacher and it's not them against us it's just flailing in a sea of uncertainty to serve children is there legal authority really to do something about dog behavior which is disruptive in the classroom without violating the individual rights <unk> does that authority really exist job my joke has been that because you have such a good background in the polk case history so say with and has been wrong in he's more reliable an integral part of program that we don't take some step that would let a real rule of the court that same time there are a great many things but <unk> traditions are making certain research i mean that was a totally totally different circumstance where there's a totalitarian you wrote is you will do that and i'm telling it was no exception the

teacher new clash on the court you know that's not quite the case today but they haven't fallen back as far as some people are suggesting is that uncertainty of how far back and worries law and what can we do and we're going to try to decipher the news coverage george will remember him reading witnesses of trying to let these issues the disgust some point that we have if you if you're rocking out from our agenda will we know that warriors that a whole host of people involved in this from every different angle and with ideas and thought that big screw richard small school district we've got those districts with minority pro those with without those signed off like us and that there is a across three are not sure which

one probably not population those candidates to just a question of getting in their own hand and making sure there's a full understanding responsibility between parent teacher know first in dallas explore the storm what are the legal rights of a school teacher what can the teacher do in the classroom what can the administrator do under current case law that's difficult answer in the abstract girl course we our allies said that local control is still alive and well in the state of texas in that largely school district or more prestige or the ones who are gone and herman what rights are teachers and administrators have but insofar as administrators have the legal authority to deal with these disciplinary situations arise within the framework of the local board policies they'd they are free to do that they are free to take action so what kind of action for corporal punishment suspension from school are

temporary suspension permanent suspension what are the other levels and stages in this well again that's dictated by war policy but gently the engineer question yes all those bits mary remedies are still available now one thing i think you'll see a come out of this conference it is gonna be an emphasis upon off finding new ways of dealing with problems for instance i think in the best i don't think i'm out of line to say that in the best in some instances there have been situations were punitive measures were the sole remedy that's run other words somebody engages in the sky and that now let's find out what the worker's remedy is that we can have time to apply that situation i think which are gonna say come out of this conference is an emphasis upon getting to the root of the problem what is it in that kid's life thats making things miserable form right then why is he a problem what can we do in our school district to try to eliminate the problem at the root level in other words let's not just a band aid solutions if it's necessary to take those traditional forms of disciplinary action been

fine and lately the authorities there to do so i know that one of the speakers in your conference will be from the livingston school in new york city where i believe discipline errant behavior problems or isolated from the rest of the school population is this one of the kinds of things that you're going to consider in this conference on the attorney general if you look at the agenda of the justice and those cameras you found it now you've got competing interests in conflict and interests are represented on the agenda it's something which we have not tried to focus so are crowded channel thought any direction were trying to make certain is an open format one in which a riyadh the unfolding explored and i believe in the free marketplace for those ideas be laid on the table discussion and debated and evaluated probably that were mostly that from the thoughts from those experts in the northeastern thought of those practical experts and we have announced it didn't deal with a prom for many years were have

as good an authoritarian authoritative pallets or whether someone's a gun the fraudsters come the man along the same lines a number of school districts in this state right now for example are experimenting with an ocean of all part of school suspensions are in school suspensions they've come to believe though it wasn't me well are we generally think of suspense is just eliminating the child from the school which in some cases is more detrimental a child himself than it is to leave them in the school so alternative school suspension in school suspension that simply means that the child is in effect segregated he's kept in the school he's kept it within the confines of the school but he's placed apart from the other students and a number of districts have been experimenting with this type of solution rather than the tradition or into a traditional assisted in this er yeah that type of thing and then another thing is to try to get to the root of behavioral problems i'm aware of certain bishops in the state which are counselors who were taking the students who are causing problems in trying to gain their trust and get to know him and as a server or

find out what it is that happening to be suggesting that education throughout the past few years has become somewhat less personal that it's become somewhat more automated that people don't really feel that it's a relationship a priest relationship between teacher and student but rather they're simply going to school is at this as something happened there do you think which is change the discipline procedures their aim for that immediate i was in attendance here several months ago that the big read reviews under scrutiny now is talking to a group of teachers parents mentioning about my background and i won really the most perfect perfectly distanced him that there had managed to have to have certain teachers are still in that room the worst part of the year and forgers of that discipline program that they have to recognize that and i'm sure surprise them without moving into lawful workers posed and while forest fan no i think that what the writing said those in need he talked about the change in the type of of parents structure that we

have in this state today in that district to carry out many more single parent many working parents that there's a different relationship of support from parents of the students and on the screen making certain that student is probably fulfilling his relationship and the clash and so a lot of the responsibility that goes directly back to the individual parent well our discipline in the schools well it when i grew about sure you know nothing is true throughout at least to match our porches and we introduce who are also troubled whole verse on the guitar in my case at home and six eva goes no matter what it wasn't it right most of the ten song that may change now that was correct but the same time i think we need to build this corporate spirit between parents and school teachers administrators know what they'll leave the history in al alam so it's going to make sure that that's dune in running the clash were not running screw the correct one signs

that that we have to be very aware is the change of makeup of communities in very small communities it's rare to find teachers for young men not attorney general like that are still there when you become an adult teachers know a lot of families that and this could well as there's the tongue the program cut in constant change in the community makeup and crisis health care economists of area one that we also have a double problem where both parents work their attention is attention to pay to the school so i think it's a very complex thing and we've been great era to say look what we need to do is put this responsibility back with the parents why do you think it's as complex as it is is it the cooperation administrators teachers and parents we can support children swan i don't think it's overwhelming and schools have not been successful and so people have said they didn't do anything for my child because they didn't do

everything so perhaps par the problem of discipline there is a problem of confusion on the part of school people as to what it is they can do you should do and what support they got this whole ambivalence about education right now in the country as a whole and certainly in texas teachers' salaries for example perhaps is an indicator of the respect for education are we hear this continue how the respondents are we are we shortchanging them are schools but very honestly teachers need a living wage and hiring that the complaints that i hear from teachers and meetings that actor to skating and sarah and children in the ability and that are in that atmosphere the community to work with those children and the complaints are much more on an overload of programs with that definitive strategies for implementing those programs a lack of administrative intercourse with them so that we know what in men's

this international show x expects us to do in the classroom at the top a lack of europe or with the community those is a province that i hear discussed lamented struggle with that teachers actually teachers are concerns their salaries that that has not been the common discussion in the senate one of the concerns of course which is very current austin's the question of busing you think that this kind of use of busing to attempt integration will cause an increased discipline problem in schools and how would a code of behavior helps solve the liberal questions are about one of the kind of well a lot like a blessing mission which is to do something that they really never showed up complicating factor which i don't know that many courts in this case are behind the tents

and won't have a real intentions are and that is i read those studies of commanders and with the problems and then reviewed the so called experts in this area doesn't seem to be quite the same amount of benefit to hope for in the history of boston and if it were strong though that we need to make short and the busing isn't the central issue and education we may have it may be another burden on education most deliberate and our ability to provide coverage to education before we close as take just a moment for you to summarize where this conference is going to be who's invited and how someone could attend wish to do so this causes go beyond the evening of fire with anything although it fair when the night witches saturday and josie cotton's center in austin texas are very hopeful of citizen because patients and there was invited it seems to me we've been dealing with a very serious a very important problem today and i hope the solution for some suggested solutions will help remedy some of the kinds of things we

look that in this program today we've been talking today about the problem of violence in the public schools our guest had been attorney general mark white dr lieberman john bible i hope you'll join us again next week for texas with the piece you've been listening to texas weekly an unrehearsed question and answer session between members of the texas press corps and a prominent figure in the news texas weekly is produced by katie fm and pe ru tv and is distributed by communication center university of texas at austin the preceding program does not necessarily reflect the views of the communications center staff or the university of texas dallas this is a long one radio network will pay