200 Years; Buried History

from communication center the university of texas at austin this is two hundred years a radio series in celebration of the american bicentennial to be in the year nineteen seventy six the american republic will celebrate its bicentennial anniversary academic communities all over the land are lending their unique resources for meaningful observance of this historic occasion as part of the us bicentennial program at the university of texas two hundred years explores the past present and future dynamics of history's longest living democratic society now here is your host rex we're this week on two hundred years we will be talking about marriage history with us are you mark davis professor of anthropology at the university of texas at austin and director of the radio carbon laboratory taxes memorial museum they had a double acting director of the texas archaeological

survey and w w newcomb jr also a professor of anthropology at the university of texas and director of the texas memorial museum much of what we know best latin america has been recorded and preserved in written accounts but history hasn't found only in books manuscripts early expeditions abandoned community is buried by time you are possible evidence of how others live too three or more centuries ago in america and we could get many more centuries ago are we and danger of losing those resources of the past what is your reaction up in uganda yes of course were in danger of losing those resources we have lost many and ensure that more will be lost in the past it seems to me that many people don't realize that

these resources or refine it we think well they you know the buffalo or almost exterminated we brought them back but this was the case with an archeological resources and once they have been torn up polluted they're gone forever no more message can be obtained from them i think this is one of the important things about these repressed traitors but today boehner's interviewed isn't covered under a little bit my view if anything you more pessimistic guy i feel it do to our expansion of the martin case of the landscape which is exhilarating you know will we were quickly perhaps within our generation to a serious reduction of the archeological resources which are available for study and years ago but that there is nothing in my clarify things little point out that

wears a lot of people about ideology as being dedicated to going out and digging up relics that's not really what we do we have to get good evidence and good evidence on what people are actually doing in the past and under what circumstances and that means working very much the same as legal investigators so relics themselves alone don't tell anything that's why we're concerned with side destruction you could go out and get the relics but when the holy word and what they mean unless you know how they lay in the ground and that sort of thing so this is is a vital matter who are concerned about loss of the record and as we get a little girl and i was i was going to disagree a little bit i should i should point out that i'm really not an archaeologist these two other for older i'm not so maybe i should be a quiet one but it seems to me that yes we do live problems and disappearing

number of sites through construction and all sorts of other things and yet the same time it seems to me that at least in texas we are a long road to preserving these sites until they can be properly investigated and excavated by the experts who were we are still blinders or what we do with these resources i once we have them i mean preserving the restoring them are holding them making more terrible to the public and we haven't how many were already and this end of the game was to re use of solar customers to go online or just i was in the first place he says in a statement last week legislation which controls are handling of historic interest or excite on public land while we're getting somewhere with a conservationist think of archaeology we also have a program

for doing something about sites if they are going to be destroyed i don't think it was that he had an adequate program but still program and then what you're really pointing out his then having investigated the science and having the evidence mounted on paper the problem then is putting it inform reference collections publication displays that would really make it abuse to the public as a whole once a quarter one thing in this regard and regarded public education toward this thing's archaeological an archaeologist and feel and failed in translating to the public the importance of archeological resources and as a martyr has pointed out the fact that these must be investigated in their most intact factions as inspectors are natural forces were routinely them we have somehow failed to bring

across to the public the importance of leaving archaeological sites alone in attempting to preserve them for as knowledgeable as possible investigation isn't just one other aspect of college education or if you will wear white like interact and changes are going on this it's everyday citizens more and more than ever so last fifteen years when you're in the field and find out how many people have some idea what you're going to see a very very different worlds becoming such a complicated an interlocking series of scientists are you who would have thought forty years ago that when you go to the archeological site that you would say the charcoal was interested in something you threw away from the title and education about what i would do is you know you and today this sort of evidence of division the day perhaps of the

cyber domain to date or increasingly frightened to go about so what we're throwing away right now which might be perhaps what is most significant is that it goes through or screams shoot you are less likely to dig also preserved exactly exactly this is this is becoming a generally an awareness i think on the part of most american archeologist that archaeologist can in themselves create their own impact on airlines a resource by or really enthusiastic they didn't simply to increase their sample to the maximum more and more were deliberately where this is possible to literally leaving large portions of sight intact with your self conscious notion that perhaps someone and fifty years or a hundred years and a great deal more sensitive this research the horrible person a sense you might even leave something intact it's going to be covered by water behind the dam are under a

row this is is preserving the problems in connection with this is that what you should do besides what goes on the war defense and sometimes just simply turned a mother and it destroyed and they've got a fine establishment of finance that like if the sites can be covered by a highway covered roman destroyed then perhaps one with a sample and then late this winter or what drives you crazy amateur days talking about realizing a paragon of a dollar cost of new developments and archaeological techniques whereby you can learn new things suppose the site is really going to be destroyed suppose it's in right away on interstate and you know the nine months is not kind of a one click into that left then of course you do it you can do it knowing that why we're here definition of times we'll give you were

involved without apology appeared titles and one was archaeology it now they do fix our listeners that there's a big difference between not an archaeologist michael pollan just areas they're in a different family were all in anthropology will ever immigration and culture and they rely on with an anthropology we are archeologists which is to say we are doing our ideology to learn about a culture you're the best living systems as opposed to the classical archaeologists who were doing archeological learn about the art aesthetic soon and philosophy and soul of classical civilization but to win in one of the political point of view or what's the rodeo sessions well let me get my partners for it not my difficulties none of my and my specialty oddly as some called social and partisan now i just think the wine number of different names which

showed just didn't fit my hand i'm interested in a broad span of this assange apology is very broad to school professor defined anthropologist is was that women are just did and they do a surprising number of things one of your major angles here is the gender i can look like a floral museum and that involved a very much an aspect of archaeology corps and you have some real work easily sanner and troubles meaning man and logos and the great german was really the study is man and his brothers meeting and i presented this will fit very well what an anthropologist desmond percent said that your specialty is within in your calendars would be dealing with that civilizations with islam is moderate and when the evidence that is not right now it's like that americans there was strolling in

equating archaeology within the realm of work and a lot more science there was trouble and say do europeans is not true on the onlookers in in america archaeology and the study of the indians its title and instead becomes altogether and they grew together whereas in europe that in the past does not include things has recently that all four hasn't really prehistoric find but nowadays archaeologists are working with historical fines to him in those medieval archaeology i ran a field party of your washington on the breasts we were doing and so growing up in the nineteen twenties which say written evidence was not adequate you try to make sure where that building was when they signed the texas declaration of independence united probably is west of the records in the courthouse and write a maniacal quite that specific and we didn't know where some of the streets where they had laid out in the original planner washington on the

brasses we were looking for street eventually did find some and were able to really to verify where it wasn't really sure so the point of archeology in this case is that we're working with the evidence other than writing and actually sink and archaeology and historical research to people could write an uncertain and they may be written until just recently is her close together there's a lot of distrust or showtime connection that we can may i ask a question work on abortion on a branson did you find out how so i understand this is a very important to her and i was just getting all i can tell you is we didn't want one and was working there so i am getting a court houses are very nice for geologist and leave because they finally or whiskey bottles and everything that people wanted to get rid of them in austin armies into interstate spanish missions

and it was a rather typical spanish mission very short term care you can't win texas and i think this was very hopeful and not only understanding spanish missions it gives what's the word a deadline for some departures that came out of that and a little more about getting kind of pages that people for whom this mission was bill speaking of one group of opinions in texas what kinds of civilizations do we have in this state particularly for you gentlemen to study or it really runs the gamut cultures or civilizations of the indian peoples of north america and the texas courts or area on the southeast we have a great count on civilizations are similar to those of the southeastern united states and the west we've urgent of the pub on poachers we're plains

indians here we had to we can't call totems of this great semi arid region of northern mexico and others so we had a we had a great assortment of people's prehistoric and historic a stay twittering from the man who knows about that he wrote a book and thinking this reconcile and also referring to the state of texas we're dealing here with the perhaps essentially unbroken spent a lot of the occupancy for ways to four thousand years were released which is another other aspect of texts circulate which makes it very exciting to hear you say twelve thousand years you don't belong by this career for you thank you to which we can

occasionally with any confidence whatsoever of course probably the best known the public would be something like for some i think which is what is that baby no matter what we know that that was the original original impulse new mexico has a different name get to the temples in new mexico you michel a big game hunting culture which is rather widespread only a central and the northern great plains and was its own plans for a number of sites in texas were the sculptures or your region and dependent on the sides down they put on weight ten thousand years ago right out from his side for a prominent women only got five six a combination of soul which sure whoever will mow down and evidence of an earlier pop culture today in this ever elusive won't which you're

consistent know of nothing else but dr small scattering of our fractured large cohort voting for a record and most certainly the result of human activity within this particular shelter are would like to go back and see what was asked of them are what did it do to archaeological sites of course know that many texans are familiar with the practice can you handle what did it cover up or other viruses senator was involved personally who are rather extensively been undergoing a chorus of celie operation within or as a whirlpool court order came in and my opinion is that we are summers side son sure well in excess of three hundred are available are going to the localities that we know of

that were severely damaged or perhaps destroyed for all time as a result of this now this action for julian are today's there were no regulations in normal concerns of this would be an unlikely happenstance today the highway department i understand as a bunch of archeologists attached to it and then you mentioned the animated rodent no you're right those dates so archaeologists also serving virtually every state has sung for move on archaeological so which i associate with the building an award for new roads in the north and we just narrows and the problem here is i'll look along the proposed right away for the existence of significant historic archaeological remains fifties or crowned attempts are made to preserve these and you're buying print diverting the road that this is

not so not feasible for economic or other reasons the salvage operations investigations are carried out on the spot les gelb abruptly to another topic this is our bicentennial year and one of the things we've been trying to do in a series of programs is to find out heritage from europe the archaeologists anthropologists of the many contribution to our understanding of this year around the country i know you mention all of the french edition here which of course would certainly come under some of the work of the state is doing prof party and going through those courses and even hear this is initially i was finding the law to leave out some of the earlier more blemished

aspects of it antiquities committee the state of texas is not able to explore some of the european rex off the texas coast and one of the most fascinating moments to me was the recommendation for ships day fifteen fifty four played fleet really amounted to some of the first computers going back home to retire and a servant of the ships at least were read off argyle and the spanish and the next year sent a salvage party didn't salvage a great deal treasure seekers brought into the notion i'd say the state of texas in the nineteen sixty nine as a result of that i think are these parties are easily delegate antiquities law and now have been able to go in and recover some of the the silver coins and gold bars over plates of the canon and the hundreds of other

privately owned services contributing to our knowledge of sixteenth century spain has induced to examine the records in spain of those are more carefully we certainly know a lot more about who's surveying instruments like asteroids every recovered more about canon's for example nothing is really known for brewer barkley the design of the spanish sailing ships of the sixteenth century didn't go buy blueprints and we got a pork barbecue those early years we were entering that area into those branches one area is a good example of how one page that archaeologists mostly over and

historian and that we are you know can order and a bus earlier have to rely on the existing archival historical record information there we can we can look at a real situation and simply on what is in fact they're rather than what one is minute pointers to the archives and other records and they accused the us as the bicentennial approached last five years has been increasing florian martin <unk> curriculum to collectively as an important areas to let the car all kinds of famous bought a little milton they've been doing a lot of arguments forward are excellent source for jobs or a problem in a section of the country is that we simply an idiot there's pre surge nearly fifty seventy six years old

so there than in texas we really do have a coalescence of the european cultures obviously a number of them and at the same time a man and his greatest and that would be a prison in north america it is found here today we've been discussing the varied records of the past an hour i got to learn about his career from hard work we might put it rather than just reading our panelists have included the month davis professor of anthropology at the university of texas at austin and director of the radio carbon laboratory of the texas memorial museum david double acting director of the texas archaeological survey and the ww newcomb jr also a professor of anthropology at university and director of the texas memorial museum this as rex we're for two hundred years two hundred years ago as part of the

us bicentennial program at the university of texas austin is a continuing series of conversations about the past present and future dynamics of history's longest living democratic society two hundred years is produced by communication center university of texas at austin in association with the ut austin gleeson information service moderator rex we're production coordinator portable and producer stewart wilbur join us again next week for another exploration of the american republic dispersed two hundred years this is the lung worm radio that we're bad bad bad