Forum; Dr. Bernard Ohse: Radio Deutsche Welk Correspondent

Click on the links below. From the Longhorn Radio Network, the University of Texas at Austin, this is Forum. Quite a number of refugees that sinned about July, August last year, came in high numbers to Prague in Czechoslovakia to Budapest in Hungary as well as to Warsaw to in Poland. Dr. Bernard Osa, correspondent for the West German shortwave broadcasting station, Deutsche Weller.

Well, first of all, everybody was enthusiastic about unification, but now the question marks come into the minds of the people because it might cost much money. And they also wonder whether they, the people in West Germany, have no say in the unification whatsoever. It seems like that. This is Olive Graham. Today's guest has been a witness to the abrupt changes brought upon East and West Germany. As a broadcaster and professional journalist for over 30 years, Dr. Bernard Osa has traveled widely throughout the world and is in a position to give a broad view of causes of and reactions to the unification of this major player in the European market. Dr. Bernard Osa. Since the 9th of November, or maybe even since the 9th of October last year, the 9th of October being the change when the peaceful demonstrations were not beaten down and the 9th of November being the day when the wall fell.

Our work in bond obviously and all the sudden changes so that we have to report more about East Germany than about bond and West Germany because all these things affect the bond politics very much. Already last year, 170,000 people approximately came to West Germany from East Germany and since the wall fell down, the number of people coming in was about 2000 every day until the election in East Germany took place on the 18th of March this year. And then the numbers started decreasing so that now days about 1000 or even less come per day. But those are not the only people who swarm into West Germany. There are also those who come from the Soviet Union, from Poland, Romania, etc.

People who emigrated into those countries, for instance in Russia called by Katarina the Great and there are still three millions in Russia and out of these population groups, many people come in and then the third group are those people seeking asylum. So last year all together we had about 700,000 people wanting to settle down in West Germany and that of course creates a big problem because we were not prepared for that and we don't have enough room, not enough housing for them. So we put them into barracks, into gyms, into schools and even into hotels, although we need the hotels for a foreign tourists. Is this problem being managed on a nationwide basis or are cities asked individually to deal with whatever stresses this brings? Where we are a federation, West Germany is a federation of 11 states and the 11 states and their cities and communities have the task to house these people, they would distribute it equally more or less.

And they dare the problem lies that they just don't have enough room but the building program which has been started to create more houses is a matter which is being dealt with by the federal government in bond together with the governments of the 11 states. What about jobs? What about schools? Well schools is not a problem so much because we are, I shouldn't say we have empty schools but our schools are not all filled up because we have less children coming to school than we used to have. But what was the other? You asked for the jobs? The jobs, yes that is of course a problem. We have about 2 million jobless people and those who come in of course can't get the jobs although in some instances they get them for instance the people who come from Russia, very industrious people and some of the West Germans have become lazy. So you imagine what happens that the industries and the people who run small businesses love to take those people coming in from Russia and get those out who are lazy who are not really willing to work much.

What about the skill level of the East Germans? The skill level of the East Germans is very high. You could use them but here is another problem. In East Germany everything was owned by the state and like in Russia the people get desinterested let me say. They go during their working hours they go shopping because they have to queue up for a long time and they come late they go early. So the morale the working morale the ethics is rather low and obviously it takes some time to overcome that and to get adjusted to the new situation in West Germany where we work very hard. People who lose more or less everything tend to work more to earn more to restore their old situation and this applies also to the East Germans who haven't lost anything but who hasn't gained much during that time. They are living standard was low and of course they have the tendency to get on up to the level which we have by the way researchers have said this is possible.

Within 10 years if the growth of the net income rises every year 8.7% which is very high but if the West German industry is the West German enterprise links up with the East Germans I think it could be done of course it costs quite a bit of money too. You said they don't have much to lose what they might lose though is their socialism. I don't think anyone would weep about that the socialism they had was more a communism and socialism socialism has the word social in it. They got free schooling and every child could get a place in a kindergarten that is social certainly the jobs and everybody could get a job in which way ever.

On the other hand I mean this is the job situation will change the wages situation will change and out of this thinking comes the idea to exchange the East mark into the West mark and the big question is nowadays what shall be the rate in a few days we will know it. There are debts interior debts which means the state on industries have to pay debts to the state well that can be wiped out down to zero and it doesn't harm because it's one pocket and the other pocket of the same thing. But the debts which East Germany has in the international fear that is really a big problem.

Now let's take this the Soviet Union gets 40% of East German exports. The Soviet Union is one of the four victor powers and of course will certainly have gained something from the unification. Again could be that these 40% export of the German democratic republic will be exchanged to one into one to one and then they get all the sudden 40% of the East German exports in the value of West marks. That of course would help them very much maybe for that they give in to the demands of the unification which we have. Might there even be more consumer goods?

Oh certainly certainly I expect that especially because West Germany as a member of the common market as such is producing too many agricultural goods. We always have to restrict that because we just otherwise we can't handle it we have to store it you know and that costs money too. It seems that unification looms so suddenly that there was not a great deal of time to assess all of these complications at the time and I assume we cannot put the genie back in the bottle it's out there. Certainly not but nobody also not in West Germany was prepared for this nobody had anything prepared because we didn't believe that this process could start so quickly. Had it been a dream though for some time? It had been a dream and it was always in the preamble of the constitution in the fundamental law and there was much rhetoric on it but we thought maybe in 30 years or 50 years or 100 years nobody.

Yeah somebody else's lifetime not their own. So nobody prepared to prepare anything. Perhaps one thing is interesting that West German politicians could have known a little bit about it because you could sense it when you looked at the work of the Lutheran Church in East Germany. The Lutheran Church when the Pershings and cruise missiles were placed on West German soil started weekly peace prayers and these peace prayers and that was 82 83. These peace prayers developed to be meeting places like market places almost for those who wanted to immigrate to West Germany for those who were artists and couldn't perform or get into the public for those who were very much concerned with the environment which is really a problem in East Germany.

And they all slowly more and more flocked into the churches and open discussions started there after the peace prayers were finished and out of this movement the demonstrations developed and the demonstrations very often took place with people with candles in their hand. One of our writers in East Germany has written he who holds a candle in his hand and even these candles are so bad material that you have to protect them with your hand they cannot throw stones you know very interesting remark. What about Berlin?

Oh that's a 64 thousand dollar question. One thing is Berlin is still under the regiment of the four victors of World War II the United States Britain France and the Soviet Union. In a way East and West Germany are also under this umbrella and therefore the West German government suggested that we hold talks with these people partly allies of East Germany partly allies of West Germany and the formula by Mr. Gensrich the foreign minister was created two plus four and I have to point out not four plus two. Because all the four powers the victors of World War II have agreed to the principle of self determination and here is a case of self determination of the people in East Germany. So they can't reject that the only thing they can do is to place it in such a way that it doesn't harm to anyone to the neighbors Poland for instance and I think they are going to do that and as I pointed out already some of them and Soviet Union especially want to gain something from that and we are not against them having it.

But there's another aspect of course which will be the capital of the United Germany and oh there's a big fight going on the Berliners of course and also the people in East Germany want Berlin to be the capital. And the West Germans partly think oh well bond was so nice and it's not so close to the border of the East block countries let's have it in bond my suggestion very personal is that we look at to South Africa. South Africa has Pretoria as its capital and the parliament is sitting in Cape Town and in the sessions of the time of the sessions of the parliament which is about a half a year the government goes down to Cape Town and while the parliament is not in session everything is taking place in Pretoria why not doing something like that with Berlin and Bond.

That would provide some recognition to the efforts that Bond has put into creating the Germany that both of them will become apparently. Yes and also it takes to regard that there's a big building program in Bond you know ministries are going up because for a long time it was sought thought of as a provisional. A provisional in French well let's make bond the capital with a view that Berlin will be the capital but lately they said reunification is a thing which will not happen in the next future so let's build ministries let's rebuild the parliament and things like that it's all in operation at the moment. Talk to me about military matters for a moment as a correspondent are you in a position to cover any of the military activities.

I do very little because the military activities are of West Germany are a part of NATO's activities and NATO's headquarters is in Brussels the European headquarters. But I know a little bit about it of course it's a problem that West Germany belongs to NATO and East Germany belongs to the Warsaw Pact. But the Warsaw Pact is not in existence anymore for the... I guess it crumbled didn't it? Very much the Hungarians have asked the Russians to go out and they go the Czechs and the Slovakia have also asked them to go they go in Poland there's very very little bit of Russian troops to... It's just to protect the ways to East Germany but in East Germany there are more than 300,000 I believe something like 400,000 Soviet troops still.

And so it is in West Germany now we have the Americans we have also British troops Belgium troops Danish troops Norwegian troops Canadian troops and French troops. We consider them not as occupation we consider them as friends and there is the 10 million Americans who were soldiers in West Germany during the last how many 45 years. They can tell the story how the German families invite them for Christmas how the villages around the barracks for Americans are stationed try to form clubs with them and things like that they do sports together. So there is a very friendly atmosphere between the so-called occupiers as the communists would call that and the occupied in West Germany. I mean we don't feel that we are under occupation but we feel that we are under protection of friends so that the former entities have gone completely.

Would it radically impact the economy if these soldiers returned to their native lands? Not radically I don't think so because they have their PX shops and things like that it is not really much intertwined with the West German economy but I should like to point out that of course the problem of a unification of two states, two German states which are having... different foreign troops on their soil creates a problem and first it was taught in the West the NATO should expand to the Polish border. The Soviets don't want that the Soviets wanted that both German states unified be neutralized. Now we don't want that and some other neighbors don't want it either because a neutralized Germany being left alone so to speak could go away which nobody does like including the majority of the Germans but you never know.

So a link up with some military pact is certainly wise and since 1975 the CSE that is the... Oh what is that in English the conference on security and cooperation in Europe they are talking about this armament as well and now they are trying to get your points that out all the time trying to form or to create a new mutual security system military device by which nobody... of the West or of the East or whoever could hit the other on the head without that all the others get him down.

This is a very complicated system if it comes into existence but they are working on that so to have a new mutual security system which is sort of an umbrella over Warsaw Pact and NATO and I very much hope that they are being fast on that because this has something to do with the unification process very much. What about 1992? Germany will be a major player I assume when that comes to pass. If Germany is already a major player in the European community we are 61 million people out of 320 million let's the highest population of the 12 countries but the community has built in checks and balances so that nobody can dominate the other or the others.

These checks and balances politically provide that the tiny state of Luxembourg can have a veto in certain things like the Federal Republic of Germany, the biggest one and all the others the same way. So I think it's a good system nobody can overwhelm the other and if we get 16 and a half million is German people added that wouldn't change much but it would certainly change the economic power of West Germany but the whole process towards the 1st of January 1993 which you mentioned is such that the economies of the 12 countries are so much connected and intertwined that it is not too much of a competition between the states anymore it will be like in every free market a competition between the firms and that's a good thing.

So we have already a program because we don't have too many mineral resources we have but we have the know how business and to research and things we have already a program amongst the members, amongst industries and research institutions, universities and so on which has the name of Eureka we call it by which it is avoided that let's say a research institute in London and a research institute in Bern and another one in Copenhagen do exactly the same thing not knowing of each other. We combine forces here because we think it's silly if the same thing has been worked on in different institutions and the same is true with industries and also in this huge Eureka program included our institutions and industries of other countries for instance Sweden Switzerland which I think proves that the European common market will not be fortress as some people fear also in America but will be a community with open borders and open trade with the United States, with Japan, with developing countries who need our help especially

and I think all accusations that we will build wars around us I think fake that this will not happen. Earlier you mentioned that if there were any downsides to unification it might be some of the misgivings of some of the East Germans who are not sure what lies before them. Are there any other items in the debit column on this otherwise it sounds like a glowing prospect? Well I think I haven't stressed enough that the neighboring countries especially and the East especially Poland need guarantees because there are deep fears and this is very understandable from 1939 when we ran over Poland. They need guarantees that we will not even attempt or intend to change the Western border of Poland.

This hurts many Germans because they grew up in those areas and they lived there for a while and then they were chased out or had to flee but at the same time one has to think in these areas in Poland, in the Western areas, the people who lived there, they lost their homes as well because there were chased out or fled from their eastern provinces which were occupied by Russia. So the whole Poland has been set a little to the West but I think in a world where borders crumble, where borders are lowered all the time and maybe someday as probably soon in the European community will just vanish. One shouldn't think in terms of borders, territories, nationalities but in terms of borders being bridges from country to country, from people to people.

Because I'm teed, we need to do that but I don't think anyone of the neighbors of Germany, of a United Germany needs to have fear because I think Germany, Germans in both parts of Germany have learned their lesson in and after the war and America has helped us very much in West Germany to carry on a democracy which is working well and since 45 years I think we are prosperous, we are very democratic and I think we are good allies of those countries who have these ethical values in their shield. The guest on Forum today has been Dr. Bernard Osa, correspondent for Radio Deutschewelle or The Voice of Germany. His visit to the University of Texas at Austin was sponsored by the Department of Germanic Languages where he lectured on the problems and promises of a unified Germany.

The views expressed on this program do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Texas at Austin or this station. Technical producer for Forum is Dana White here, production assistants, Christine Drawer, Byron E. Belt, Elliot George Garcia, and Shuranda Herald. I'm your producer and host, Olive Graham. Cassette copies of this program are available and may be purchased by writing Forum Cassettes, Longhorn Radio Network, Communication Building B, UT Austin, Austin, Texas 78712. From the Center for Telecommunication Services, the University of Texas at Austin, this is the Longhorn Radio Network.

This week on Forum Dr. Bernard Osa of Radio Deutschewelle, quite a number of refugees that are since about July, August last year, came in high numbers to Prague in Czechoslovakia to Budapest in Hungary as well as to Warsaw to in Poland. West German correspondent Dr. Bernard Osa on Forum.