Texas Weekly; Discussion on legalizing paramutual gambling

in vancouver bc from the state capital and you're listening to the texas weekly with host dave mcneely texans have been asked to prove their mutual reading by referendum six times since it was abolished unstable nineteen thirty seven each time they've voted no but by ever decreasing plurality is a nineteen eighty one race and proponents managed to get legislation legalizing permits weren't getting to the four the house for the first time in more than forty years even though that legislation was defeated betting proponents feel as if time is on their side when it a three be the year that legalized gambling is reintroduced to texas for the next half hour we'll be discussing this question with our guest's representative and now senator elect gray was interviews and one of the co sponsors of the nineteen eighty one legislation on mailing jr the executive director of the anti crime council taxes and on answering the executive director of the texas horse racing association ms dresser let's start with you why does texas me or finishing work permits are red and they now believe at least two

of the very significant points of the army for wagering is it would provide approximate fifty thousand new jobs instead of texas in addition to the approximately a eighty million dollars in direct tax could generate immediately was a naturally gifted figures i've heard there mr philip so that would create seventy thousand jobs the us treasury says fifty thousand district healthy has been quote in the dallas morning news is saying ten thousand so i don't know what the figures on don't think they do either they do know that most of the top jobs around a racetrack there was warned would be held by people from out of state but we're circuit most of the jobs for texans would be pitching harry and shoveling manure very different world they misrepresent

what it would mean to texas they inflate their figures course a thousand poll figures of iraq is in good numbers ten course they don't want to talk about and that is that it's been proven position of the year all of the information that we have on the subject comes from law enforcement sources either in texas are from out of state anytime you legalize gambling you invite and to hear the answer to you know among other things that's leo as if people are betting oil let's legalize tax and put the illegal bookies at a business that has not been the experience in places where it has been legalized when you when the state's legal as is gambling it in effect puts a public stamp of approval

on gambling it encourages people to gamble people who would not ordinarily do so now the illegal bookies really if you're gonna bet offer a better deal than a nickel per mutual and four one time you don't have to go anywhere you know from a place of the second you gotten credit for thirty if you're fortunate enough to be one of the few that that make some big winnings they're certainly not going to report your winnings to the internal revenue service now the illegal bookies the pain and on us crime in two primary areas depend on it for their banking for their financing in many cases and they depend on the regional layoff centers that are operated by organized crime to be able to lay off that's when i get their book to haiti one way or

the other enough book is an advantage thing bouncer books i don't care who won mr israel mr malley it is is a little misinformed uninformed regard for the facts and the figures come from a nineteen eighty year the state of california generated a hundred and forty million dollars in direct certainly california is very much like taxes in that demographically and geographically in that has three major population centers it's mounted on one side by the pacific ocean as taxes is by the go there are very many aspects very much like that so our figures as opposed to being inflated as mr modi suggested on the contrary we picked figured it was one half approximately of the state of california and certainly taxes can compete with california and in time in that respect

regarding the jobs i've been involved with horse racing in the horse breeding industry all my life and i'm not sure what the circuit is that has been referred to there are circuit so in some states there circuits and such as those were horses travel from one place to another however that's not the case of major racetracks major racetrack surfaces hollywood park los alamitos seventy the belmont like without those are circuits within the state and texas would have its own circuits within the state first pre requisite for successful permit to horse racing is population contrary to the belief that there's going to be a racetrack in your backyard if you live in texas or anywhere whether it's out in far west texas or the far northern panhandle simply not true we should point out is that this measure does have a local option which are still in other words voters in travis county workers town near

dallas county would have to vote positively before attracted me alone and then disconnects and seasons takes is not does not have any referendum or by the citizens can go to the ball and specify what they were like on the statewide nations the next best situation in texas is a local county auction election whereby the citizens in that county and determine for themselves and not someone else someone from out of state but they won't and if they choose not to have family to wagering should the legislature pass that legislation then fine but if they do choose and many of the citizens of texas draw large majority of the citizens of texas who used to be that like oh there's one other irony here is driving mention that of organized crime the mini figures that the opposition permits were wagering

always uses relates to organized crime i would like to point out that just is the figures we do not allow the air regarding jobs as awkwardly figures from california the same is true of the organized crime issue the only study major study observe and conducted into gambling the year the essence of gambling in the united states where's from a commission appointed in nineteen seventy four the short name of his national gambling commission's the courts i'm organized crime and a law enforcement our officers it just rightly mentioned are from that report and they indeed are quote incorrectly as he said they are quote incorrectly he fails to point out one thing that report was divided and the categories it was divided in categories of legalized gambling it was also headed an illegal gambling casino gambling and rush rising

the study found that an army to horse racing there was no involvement that they can determine from any element of organized crime such was not the case with casino gambling and some of the other elements and those are the elements would serve mr riley in the opposition choose to quote rather than telling reporters it was not a part of that study the list of the tone of grandma hasan several a portion of the reserve and talk with a gray water use over it was great i think that the right to determine what people do basic philosophical question in the end they're not mad here to be an advocate for our listeners some sort of condo the us citizen or in legislative the person with a reporter isn't in a swat i cared

for western caribbean well if you look at things and the hearing the committee murtha by the conficker found almost word for word to sign the argument was made against like about it that has been made about the people who pour sauce with the mozzarella you know we get as little by little bit elusive ever happen to taxes why every family broken and people believe in this is the movement rather than an organized crime the small communist takeover gaza that i was illegal number laden with mr mcallister that's not true i saw for me to realize that people conjecture what isn't all happen i've always been amazing that the statistics on the number of unreported rapes for instance is now a reporter i can you possibly have no statistics the problem that i have is that i think the benefits of people

live too much people want to gamble louisiana new mexico and mexico and we can do and we can legitimately flies and i don't think you have a right to regulation are letting people who opposed because without that does not go to the track we don't have the right to regulate the conduct of people if it doesn't interfere with nasa and we're part of mustang i think though the book where we would disagree is that i think that this and i don't think you can really compare the two liquor during prohibition and i wasn't and now the senate the same argument was made man ok we weren't making it i don't know about that but it would interfere with our lives and that's our position that's i believe and we base it on a lot more than the endless warren commission report as evidence that were

joyous who's with the organized crime section department of justice gave testimony to the texas committee an intergovernmental affairs back in seventy seven he says the rate of illegal gambling in those states which had some legal as form of gambling was three terms as high as those states where there is not legal as former gambling long run on getting a quote from law enforcement officials were in other words it's estimated that were joined about and this is a question or your image of the us you can legally claim could be contained by totally plan in other words if people want to attract and i bet on those horses they're off track betting the government got its fifteen percent taxes on that there was no scandal no governor's deprived appoint people build a horse racing commission the horses were doctor etcetera that it was totally a clean label with the rest of the pitchers of atf i think you're selling off lines it

just can't happen well of the gunman for the sign to be all about let's just as an image in other words what i'm curious about is the anti crime council's its position that gambling is wrong and therefore will not know we there are some very compelling mall and social argument about the legalization of gambling but that's not our concern in our organization our organization's concern is cramming organised crime and take your hand you know frankly i think that the media phone have has allowed themselves to be common on this issue the proponents claim that this is the greatest spectator sport and war and it makes me wonder if that's true why couldn't they do had no clothes were not talking about race in a racing it is not the issue is taxes know if that is if the

horse racing is such a great spectator sport quack and to build some tracks this as if texas stadium where the astrodome and charged people twenty bucks a ticket to come in and see the horses run is because people don't go there to watch the horses are not really they go to bed they were to place bets so if if and on the sports pages of their papers that claim to cover horse racing is a sport whether the attorney is running and what race what the odds are the help of the book is what the odds and then the day after the race that a view on how much i play this artist art market the reason i'm smiling at the idea the concept that the name is going to base last dollar out or phrase because a horse race is there are i find that so so really naive that they admit is amusing to me and also the fact that certainly people would like your

phrasing is a great sport horse racing is a great industry the industry which all address in a few moments a is something that everyone chooses to ignore the boating is just a very very small part of it if we believe that all of those people go the western powers or two houston astrodome what's it used in orange and not wager on it then then one is telling it does winnow from organized crime sports that sports betting not horse racing sports betting team sports betting is where our when you mention organized crime it certainly isn't on because that's the area which is most abused but now you're begging the question it is not necessary to put her unusual ones are betting windows at texas stadium and at the astrodome to get people to come out and watch those teams play that's that's even a legitimate comparison and i would

submit to you that if if their mutual horse racing the sport than gambling casino should be considered a sports powerhouse because it's just about as much more involvement well but one question i do know that you made a comparison with the dallas cowboys and it's another dallas cowboy ism which are your argument it seems to me is that they're coming out there about on those games and what mr messias than a prayer vigil with the windows open to that on the dance with a good anyway if that's the case whether the same system work for the irs or was a pardon mean to suggest that an assignment that was an obvious parallel via the reason is this in the state of texas today they are and a little over three hundred thousand registered portal says there's another hundred or so thousand koreans these are horses that go to louisiana to a pond park in hot springs arkansas and they're already talking since september twenty

first win oklahoma passed permits awakened by an overwhelming popular majority of building tracks on in ardmore oklahoma and also in marietta just on the border too thank you men into the population and dallas fort mccoy politics in new mexico we have five racetracks which texas supports in old mexico we have to extract some mortar which takes his support so currently texans and texas dollars are supporting free racetracks in louisiana on the board are helping support the fairgrounds in jefferson ballots which are in new orleans in but still major portion of their patrons come from texas felt announcer louisiana downs oakland park in arkansas says si oklahoma's planning two more in the five tracks in mexico all apple all supported by texans and texas dollars all that we need in texas is just that to support two or three race tracks of our own for the

industry in the state of texas and california mention hundred am fourteen million dollars i was direct tax that was the states direct their mutual tax know assess through taxes or auxiliary taxes included the economic impact in the state of california is estimated as high as thirty six billion dollars whether that's a good figure not i certainly can't tell you but i can tell you this that if that cost just a few rangers in texas today that the grain alone the bill for grain alone runs into the hundreds of thousands of dollars to say nothing of all of our plan certainly goods and services which and an associated with that were already a second greatest horse raising state in the country and certainly by get the impression that we don't have a viable

horse industry in this state know and suddenly we were to if there is permanent collection a case you're saying that those forces or even rosen in the world who knows who knows how many people would put how many additional thoroughbreds in texas if there's a track locate it in texas and so the crossword in louisiana in arkansas just let's talk about another aspect of this the economic center washington what would racing if that were implemented in of the new legislation has yet offered a nineteen eighty one and representing oliver in nineteen eighty three so what well that raising take to be sure that it will have max was a large tax money wouldn't produce a percentage basis to stay carver's and i think that in the opponents of legislation will agree that in terms of maine tiger written without safeguards of the buildings that was supposed to go buy a lot of people know a lot more about answer

them and i'm someone famous race and firefighter summer pose some realistic enough so within the news good a survey of the all of the states that have laws listen some about whether that good legislation that you see that are latino immigrants in women's movement stay where they are on arizona's will commissioning a software letting you set up the commission so that you've met shalit is freed from influence of not just the so called on them as crime and loathsome a bad word free of olympians from people interested in houses and houses director provisions in his people have land world actively involved in emphasis on the problem where the amusement misinformation some time that you know protections that every level initiatives one is reported the comptroller public accounts and actively involved in it all

the money rolled in there unless sessions bailon to the villagers who fled isis leader imam says they're contemplating changing that you were talking about some other people thought about a billion and a handout of interactive map this session in the news by the next nine am i think that conservative and an hour with the mouth my conservative conservatively a year after the passage of legislation and then the tracks of them are talking about thirty to forty million dollars going directly to the state bar we enjoy a level of measurement because we had armed and women's houses have come to expect a good government cost efficient government but at a very low cost compared those states are siding with the common metropolitan areas where we can continue to cut back severely on social programs like

education and highway funding and things of that nature that's a new tax revenue st germain in horse racing as an audience tie misconduct at louisiana's fight in this juicy they'll be the main opponents of the gentleman from louisiana for this dandelion money are i think rather have it so that we can either dedicate this to the animals to fund to make sure that we continue the system of education for our children are perhaps i'm thinking of dedicating the money to pay the fans would have insurance as they slam it is for people who were in fact losing money as the snake attacks that helps poor people so the winner is gavin live in houghton partner out in their nominate monica tracks and though they weren't alone in that feeling inside another big ears or not able to issue a tribute comets have my dad really unsettling about poor people than the ones that

were setting last season at six and i'm telling you now and social arguments but i go back to are concerned they are less crime that you mentioned thirty four million dollars it's the current state budget does bear this so that would be two point five percent of the state by a nigerian man paul ryan and outlandish figures around remind me of the statistician that drone anytime that had an average depth of six inches we're sorry we like that the guest representative and senator elect gray washington elementary junior executive director of anti crime council of texas and honestly executive director of the texas horse racing association thanks for joining us be with us next time on texas weekly you've been listening to texas weekly an unrehearsed question and answer session between members of the texas press corps and a prominent figure in the news texas weekly is produced by katie

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