Forum; Brenda and Eric Kahari of Zimbabwe

from the longhorn radio network the university of texas at austin this a quorum the parishioners live in lee hardy managing director of wine in zimbabwe insurance company of zimbabwe and his wife attorney a hard i only knew about the liberation struggle and the fact that they were going to become independent and that meant it was going to be ruling the country and there was tremendous promise but i didn't know that and i don't think that this is something that most americans understand as well foreign currency restrictions policies so there's probably were the first things i tell american businessmen when they come to me for legal advice i think that anybody who's lived in a

terrible country would say that that is probably the most significant difference between our way of life and it affects all aspects of your way of life in another country and again this is olive green today's guests on our eric and brenda whitacre hardy residents of hari zimbabwe in the years since tim buckley is independence in nineteen eighty eric are you came to the united states in nineteen sixty two for his college education and lived and worked in cleveland ohio prior to his return to zimbabwe is managing director of line of zimbabwe insurance company his wife brenda wood car he grew up in ohio and was educated here who she attended law school at

howard university in washington dc at the time of her decision to marry eric hari and go to live in zimbabwe she was a corporate counsel for atomic electric power company or let them go in zimbabwe she has worked with the ministry of justice in nineteen eighty six she started her own law firm here in our discussion the car is described life in the first years of zimbabwean independent territorial accounts for the multi cultural and multi racial nature of the zimbabwean culture basically in zimbabwean to tribes and many of the foreigners will cost eighty percent of the population and you can get them into question to the court seventeen and two percent on three percent of the races oh so you then to basically the relationships we can be they were the people some very common little better

than what you found inside a free to fully was a good place a small excellent human relationships relations violations but there were a theological battle yes we will indeed start as a socialist country very very socialized and we really believe very strongly in the concept of a corporate to seoul indeed keeping that they must sees only means of production we have found that didn't work and the devil or privatization the time we never did we relive it all rhetoric pointed towards that but in actuality we never nationalized anything but he does the rhetoric that put a lot of people off all potential investors when they had the rhetoric the you know that has shied away from zimbabwe body at it and be pragmatic

level everything was left in the east so you didn't know quite played european plan as it is we didi a flight immediately after independence or a proud to have to do to get into the date of independence and a lot of whites didn't get to flee the country but these are the very same whites were to do you know those were going to come in what they made in the state someone who is a day they do realize that you didn't make a mistake they will fight to buy their rhetoric rather than the heat we're going to put into into effect one that the economy all the way through this teacher have the stability of europe a record for your industry he is to live in a very agricultural country and

very productively so a week we knew we have had some disruptions this is to twenty two problems like the last two years nineteen nineteen ninety one were very devastating droughts but still it doesn't go with sue able to prove to feed its people no one could be said to have died from starvation and friend out what curling drives the economy there i would say that to people with zimbabweans i have been impressed with them as being wild card industry as people everybody works it every night and the employee as a grandmother's is we know that they are plowing the field i mean everybody has to have something and people love the land i grew up in an urban environment and so i really didn't have the

same sort of feeling for agriculture or the importance of growing things but people in zimbabwe even if they live in the town they will have a little garden everyone grows something and i think that's why it hurts to us about the and pride so much when we had the devastating drought about a year ago was the worst drought in a hundred years when people could not print weapons sales it was like it's just pierced something and so this you really praying for rains we had good rains last year and now the time is coming back up it can lead to that country is everyone works and in addition to that people occupying a track you'd be the produce and factories will probably have one of the best in any factual basis for most countries in africa we actually do produce textiles and the second largest in the continent second only to cairo textiles that are exported to america europe south africa south africa rising creek

deal sometimes when you can raise a major patent and deeper we actually could do city into materials and textiles huge complex and textiles so in addition to that we produce leveled main theory and they raise cows not just footnote them the beef which is exported to european community but they produce leather and very fine handbags and they're the kinds of things i can have a very big industry in that the a horticulturist probably rank pretty high but you say he's simply exploit a great deal of flowers all kinds of flowers to amsterdam so i you know just basically what drives the economy is the people the attitude but agriculture is fundamental even to the manufacturing sector because people who were in the clothing industry since so on when you have to start importing those textiles and you cannot grow your own curtain

shields the economy because you don't have the us now wants to do what kinds of urban centers i would say that they're very typical to some of your smaller towns in the usa or how rally was a bit more cosmopolitan than your average town because we have a lot of embassies represented in that town and we have a parliament which is similar to calm this hour we have an ice roads and buildings didn't seem to be surprises harry organize city you know and they come to not quite expecting it to be as orderly as it is and then iran under estimated to say that i think in its saline it's relatively clean and in her eyes and the way i was also beautiful say it's is when you look at austin you see the wide streets in austin that never was but the y wants you you're reminded of the way off because they have a history a very wide streets in the middle of town but it's a small

town we talking about population in harare being what now mainly almost a million austin area now in her writing but little whale and then we have the high density areas where many of the africans player an african population there is power than five thousand and she to please sir and what about your transportation system it's terrible shipmate and i say that because the government should have embarked upon a system immediately acted independence and they did not so now the mass majority of africans have to go through so many changes to get a quote i leapt into town you know that means teaching a wry with someone in the thirties the taxi or getting into an arm the us and it's not the fish that's not an efficient way of doing things and an emergency takes his taxi is a privately

owned vehicle which may carry up to sixty people will recall the gym agency not because they've really than ten years at this is this is and they are privately owned and early government is doggedly brutalizing in that in that aspect because he was one or poorly government on the company that ran the buses and they use immigration and empire now but gee i'm able to provide the transportation to be must seize the the shooter so they have legal allies and a lot of fun then said be the imported from south africa to come and and a lot of people into that part of the only business now so it sounds as if it might be difficult for people to get to their jobs it is it is very difficult and envious he said if government had either embarked upon a metro system by that independence or liberalized it i'm sure that in the

second instance of different i say sure we would've had far more companies investing in assets and transportation of their own employees but they were reluctant to let go of anything that they felt was a basic necessity to people and i think that that's rather that now we'd have animal and other words that i've seen since and then they're sent by when government role from being a baby to sort of young and don't you know baby you are very reluctant to let go heaney control that related to basic necessities for people are feared losing control of grassroots support now to remarket to take i don't think so but now i think they realize that if they don't interest some of that in private sex or that they simply cannot feel that a noun that's this while recently seen such a positive turn around and some of the things are happening because they really are the liberalizing things in allowing

people who have the capability to have the money to go into and do these things and profit from it and ready to serve them and also you see that you can hear it wasn't just to feel the free market it was also the perception that the court in under the cornell government must seize had been exported slowly going to mean we've wanting to rescue the muscles from that exploitation so eat you know night and day that is i have to do so they immediately forgot that they do not have the means we've reached to provide the transportation that would be the money was he could not stressed the dog that i thought were other parts of the infrastructure necessary they are either the grounds for instance alito wrote that's the one thing about to zimbabwe's that

when sanctions were imposed upon zimbabwe under the cornmeal it's government it forced them into doing a lot of things that normally they would have looked up to pretend for her this is the late sixties and the senate inevitably new gi in arabic origin an independent country so that it is because of that we created a solid money for twinkies a sound educational seized a song called cease to be because we had to survive they had to survive and they sell their baby we and means the crew and you know zimbabweans it is one of the largest debacle growing countries in the world during sanctions they couldn't sell it to welcome but they have to find ways these is do we able to sell it to work so they became very

devious they had two a year and they have a canal i'm so in order to get funds please some of it had to trade in south africa was a very good partner because during that time the frigate provided and a conduit through which includes could reach other countries and i'm sure the americans as someone smoking at a bank we did not know as the zimbabwe was growing up after independence what kinds support was available to it from its neighbors south africans are allowing send him pulling he is was it was there a need for any coalition

lulu to one zombie and malawi as the markets for products sell covering varied the weekend a lot of interchange between south africa and the lovely so you always get political support from them he is soon these eleven primaries prior to independent study independence he is very supportive of pacific mozambique you you know went to the wall for us so to speak at every song revolution here at the they were very supportive of us were the basis of a free laws in mozambique and there they were aided infrastructure was destroyed but these tools to us and so did zombie or we couldn't have done it although only voters support of the industrial countries on the front line states really tell me about some of the the other institutions in zimbabwe for instance the educational system

weathered change is once independence came along and have there been developments since that time no availability changes i think we're very very english prevent in terms of education system of audio is a very intimate and up to date it the concepts and perceptions are beginning to change but basically when a brand and they went back we had to fight a way through the bureaucracy to support because avoid paying american educated the perception then was not we were not as well educated as the person would call and england australia know some country now we do i think that there's a lot of us

who came back from america and money to outshine those went to toulouse colonial older these other commonwealth countries most of you all those end i places money team directors tend to be american educated be consumed very third thank his american american educated and many of the chief executives of companies i think it has just proved in terms of experiences groups and we have to prove ourselves it wasn't easy though what about education for the mountain elementary so i think there's a refining of a problem than we have tried very hard and i think that what the government was concerned with was to simply make sure that the masses were able to reach without focusing in on the quality education you know the concept of a socialist and being free education for all and let's just make sure that we pass around one book for ten kids

and we've succeeded in getting all everyone educated well what's happened is that you still have a very strong private school system with very good facilities are well supported by the private sector and yet the government's goals many of them that are in the cities they're doing quite well but in the other military is not so well and then of course you have the migration of those people wanting to better quality education into the city's over taxing the system so now there's a refocus to try to get more teachers with qualification an appropriate books and so on and the rural areas into building and make the system better for a particular environment they are so that people don't feel the necessity to move into town and that's very difficult but they at least now focusing in on the right direction we have now from the us standpoint

peace corps volunteers who are coming very glad to see that to be reinstated because for a long time that was resisting again the emphasis being on australian teachers will engaged teachers whatever but now we've got twenty one peace corps volunteers have been in operation for a few years now and it doing a very good job was a percentage of the epic and eighty percent of the african population as rule based i'm quite proud of that to some extent because in other areas like nairobi and other places cities have become over populated crime has risen and so on because everyone wants to come to bright lights we've managed to maintain a fairly good rule based population and a lot has to do with the very attitude of africans to extended family still very strong anyone who is the town still go back to the village is to pull back and that contribute to school fees and

things like that to their families in the rural areas but there's this fear that more and more people are migrating tower and you got to have the education in and girl scouts or boy scouts and all those things have to go out of the city urban areas and also the other thing that is held to the concept of good growth points crew of poisoning symptoms in the rural areas where you have your post office where you have heel heel do you use your grocery store you'll have yule postal facility and indeed we the telephone so the concept is that every person in the lawyers we should be within ten kilometers twenty six miles of a telephone and it seems concept to make their health yet there is a cleaning can do integral point also as it the labor is so these

become urban myth oh the rule areas that become the trading market places where people come and exchanged goods and out of that concert and the biz electrification but that period of low points too and that has helped them might even be a tv which ali which is a communal tv everyone comes and suddenly to look at the tv to see what's happening in town so that isn't holding people within the euro or areas are than they are migrating into the cities what about television and radio are deer stations are you know we can live for stations stations with two tv a television stations which is for us great then you also you know you can afford it you can buy a gift so the ladies shouldn't you can get anything cnn speaks he's been in french and russian one of its quite interesting you know about the whole thing and

then getting to the media again and because the financing of the media is different from here we don't have as many of her disappearance and we would like to see more but what they rely on is a licensing system everybody pays an annual fee who owns a television or radio receiver and then is do those funds to finance programs and in addition to that government put in a very english so in the eighties and what we'd like to see is some privatizing not certain aspects a broadcasting system so that you would get a private sector that's sort of taking over some of the tax money that would be much better i think for the croaks of the industry with and to sort of allow some private sector area like cable in and other things like that to come in and there'd been talks and there are companies have been formed joint ventures and so are there opportunities as well in that

area as i think government is seeking every pair a state of that's what we have in terms of broadcasting it's partly it's really owned by the government we say paris to what they want to to relieve themselves now government of these areas where they can and i think that there will be some opportunities for private sector growth to skype is there something he's trying to come into the country that some bubbling doesn't want are they resisting anything that you can think of a lot of the state of the city you know we're willing to take anything and everything that brings those jobs i think there is some resistance and i think as the cannes of resistance that's true everywhere and that is they don't want total foreign ownership and over as they don't see themselves back and different form of kony and isolation they would like to see people come in to take local partners i like to see new investment but having that idea that the people from here

will be involved i don't think that they want a person to just come in and own entirely of business i think there's a real resistance to that will agree with that wasn't thinking or for question in that sense i think it's only proper and write to it crimean nurse shoot at least two local partners and the company is beginning to to put a lover a lot of emphasis on that you come in but we we're you really we're happy to have you here but tell you should have a local pub is an incentive or a disincentive it depends it depends it depends certain countries are easy served seven countries or would have don't call me so to speak the english i have no problems because of the city at this week the state dealt with that a

mostly americans find did they like to control it now i had a pro with mexico to i suppose zimbabwe's looking at all of this free trade discussion with some interest but so yeah absolutely i think that nafta was very symbolic i don't think that is any doubt that nafta and international impact it wasn't just an ideal teen in mexico and in canada and usa i think it is symbolized a lot yesterday taking down barriers really meant a lot yet in india sense also that the zimbabwe now he's beginning to look at what we have for a long time looked at the regional concept because we believe li's south africa zimbabwe the median sunday and mozambique malawi we can we can create quite a formidable trading region

we we have everything there to tune to the normalcy infrastructure expect he said defendants to to be able to be quite a year for them but how what you know on i guess some form have been eric and brenda wood cari of harare zimbabwe were visiting in austin texas with their twenty year old sons rent and more the views expressed on this program do not necessarily reflect the views of the university of texas at austin or this station technical producer for farm could hargrove i'm your producer and host all of graham by writing for so long run radio network

communication building the ut austin austin texas seventy seven one to france for him to say it's a longhorn radio network communication during the ut austin austin texas seventy seven one from the center for telecommunication services university of texas at austin this is the longhorn radio network the point this week on for in somebody's name and the test will be a lot of leverage was land whether it is a delight and a good lead and sort of speak sometimes

to me the real evolution isn't about this week