A Word on Words; 1004; Steve Tally

the world of books and their authors this week steve cowley talks about why an ambitious goes forward on words mr john sigg involved in chairman of the freedom forum's first amendment center at vanderbilt university with frilly lace and then once again welcome to word on words singing we're gonna be talking about though the second highest office in the land that office said john nance garner would call a pitcher of warm spit that office he himself held the book is bland ambition as the vice president from atoms to quayle the cranks the crumbled the tax cheats the golfers who have held that office an hour author is steve cowley steve welcome to world markets pleasure to be here seems to me that the book comes out at a good time for you if you want to sell it not as new and sell books and never have remembered a political campaign presidential campaign all my forty three years as a journalist in which the vice presidential office was talk about so much in which and in which those

who were seeking office were world so much a part of the presidential debate and i'll meet dan quayle our goal or an hour and one stockdale all these people seemed to made impact pretty heavily one way or another long their candidacies of the presidential candidates and george bush or bill clinton and roll roll you feel excited about the book success because of that well and is slamming and it was because of that i was able to sell i had come across us on the store's about ten years ago i thought this a make a fascinating book about head trauma <unk> some of the publishers of that and when dan quayle came along and there was a lot of attention by friends as you mentioned somewhere thinks change of course spiro agnew and others have been in the news and humphrey even ran party's campaign running against agnew ascent begins nixon but but i think you're right i think people are paying attention to more than a than they have

ever before probably what you've given us here in this book is a series of thumbnail sketch of essays glimpses of the live set of vice president and those who have actually holy office succeeded in getting the office of success is in quotes that i read from you because in many ways you know and i mean the office but those who have held a bland ambition is about so the way to work it put the knock on that drive our lack of it that lead these men enter this office that you suggest is virtually useless well i tend to think of poking fun instead of the meeting a man in some people's minds is as same kind

of same kind of thing that's where i am unique vocal aplomb and i do talk a lot of fun and an you know thomas marshall who was vice president from indiana said that a great man may become vice president but he'll never be a great vice president because the office itself was insignificant i think of the truth was that in and yell things tom marshall said goodbye the country needed a cheap cigar i don't know if i completely agree with vice president marshall the great nicotine become vice president and that meant they all went back to thomas jefferson when he was on to take the office and something and five the sector treasury over walcott said that that his acceptance of the offer shows some defective character it's an office on time's not for someone who wants to do something but for someone who was to be something and that's how i got the title blind ambition is not that these people like ambition and

all but that they are very often want to set aside political philosophy of the hair there they in order to attain this year's prize it would say when they won't let alone get very heavy a very serious about both of their life and regular fondly but it would seem to me that that if you look at the burden that was heaped on harry truman all burn that was heaped on gerald ford and when they responded to the challenge of the times immediately apple you might conclude that that there were elements of greatness in both of those men and certainly those who live through those times felt that they provided some great leadership i agree completely and i knew you were going to mention those two men it i don't know when and from my research i don't know that they

would've accepted the vice president in normal circumstances but they both knew that the country needed them and they were once or i think they were two of the greatest vice presidents we've had and i agree completely but like i said i think those are special circumstances and then they roasted occasion let me let me they can only limited and just before we get the invisible liner anecdote i at times felt reading the book in that you were that you had a thesis and you sort of said in some cases based on my conclusions when a mission these are the facts what all walcott the criticism thomas jefferson which quote jefferson's wine vice president's ear to reflect the character defect mean that criticism comes from when and today a protege of alexander

hamilton served as secretary treasurer really inspires thomas jefferson as much as mountain did and it i thought that was sort of using an enemy too late point and also thought at times you've characterized well military band and george clinton just to take two you talk about how they despise the constitution as it was written for so well is no doubt that they oppose the constitution as many people in the country good but you don't mention the fact that there was a real drive to create you're a new constitution our bill of rights in that both of them were committed to that and i thought that that the way you present their hostility to the constitution took out of context there were what they were really about in that debate in that great historical debate and made it really fit the pattern that the men were

less and less force in history less a positive force than they were as an unfair well i'll visit there they might be a bit of a different opinion i thought that they were more of a different obviously believe it is those things that are worthwhile focus on there commoner vice president you know i guess i was it's unfair might differ over the invasion their political careers that well i had and i mention those two are there historical phrase but in an old lead a new document quite well that the phillies people real guts but honey i'm again present maybe fourteen became pregnant or fourteen hour forty four became

president did leave the country and we survive it and wallow well i'm not prepared to save more than two really reflected own to greatness in the crises and i so i saw them r o n e johnson for common under the most impossible circumstances a tiny bit other lesson but let's get to the real the real thrust of the book which is which is that they the way you deal with us only anecdotal material and there is rich anecdotal material they're bound and some of its fight some of it really has to make those at that when i think of the euro's lines i remember you're quoting mark hanna and colon was at mckinley and you have one duty and that's to live for four years and

it was that that was because he thought roosevelt was a man he's norman mailer lee i guess so lot and the belmont have been many many people in this country and i've heard it said during last four years by a maze of dan quayle i pray every night that george bush would survive before you guys got a liver at the figures if the president's re elected but an aunt and that's on one side on the other side there is that their land from the league barkley just before he died having served in the second highest office and as you for not really he loved that officer late soul mate for me was the quintessential leap i think in the best sense when you disagree with it i will recite that that that scene and his death yeah he was he was speaking to college and he said well first what he had

he had gone back to to the senate after all the size presence cnn says it but he had to return as a junior senator and i asked him if he was bothered actors many years of it so in a country of three boys are as a junior senator and he said if you'd rather we assert allows the lord made me a servant house or than vincent among them it and then he fell over and died at that moment at that moment and you know it's interesting that you recount i mean i had forgotten it but the minute i read it i recall listening a few years back to a tape recording of that speak with their presidential campaign the next thing you hear is the fall a microphone and then there is the murmur and someone says it's their doctor their doctor and so it's that sort of book that you've written that is chock full of angola terrio and i

really loved reading it most people don't know anything about john breckenridge by john breckenridge as i read the book emerged as one of the most controversial characters john c calhoun of being an island and jackson you quote and taxes saying something by july yet another deathbed statement that he actually serves as jackson was dying he says one regret is president was that he had and hang john cowan and or snowing and jack's i think the problem annette lareau they're close to the end i very good means your right to mention john breckenridge john breckenridge was vice president from kentucky served under james buchanan just before the civil war our youngest vice president's the researchers away took office credibly fast rising political star and he was later charged with treason and had

to flee for his life because many people the country the times ran an editorial this fact has said that he should be and they are they will they won the same die for for serving in the confederate army and it was that story that was one of the few that made me decide to write the book was a really yeah red red and so as in history but just my own reading and some books on the vice presidents and they would talk more about how many delegates he received presidential conventions and and in his campaign and there's just a mention that he had to flee for his life after he served the story and i was wondering what that was about and and went to your sick in turkey and thousand books on his life and sir find out that no it in flavors

like that is attacked by pirates along the way in and nearly died in the ocean because it was floating on and amassed a boat with no food no water and thought that in such a fast lane story then if not forgotten the least well hidden that it would make an interesting book to write and so i started working out about ten years ago and as you mentioned earlier there was much interest in the vice presidency boettcher storm a nobody would care about this kind of work and so it wasn't until been quote came along and i was a water to get it done we conclude the book with that series of yogi berra isms by dan quayle out that i kept it in the book a mountains and it became a spelling but there is a i do at taking you conclude with that primarily because it it really makes the

case it really makes the case about those silly offers better than almost anybody else the line and the writer of many alec at the holy office it sat in a lease to say a lot about mr kweller in when it should an officer and agree with it to not be too partisan also said get in the book the consumer and some of us friends with and he may be one the best just doesn't have the force that office not when it shouldn't bet in the first place and for sarkozy may be one best we've ever had and i don't mean to suggest fermented book is partisan glow that is really not ours and there's a funny story about about lyndon johnson violating you would hope we speak again and you hope readers of your most overly articulate order never made a shortz beach or even a short sentence in his whole life would you

tell the story well you recover want to speak to the camera about vietnam war out of that car was mentioned in the boat and lyndon johnson in wanting to the vice president to be addressing the cabin them under the speed on the subject and in most of old and what you were offered big talking all afternoon and antonia had five minutes a point is what us economists and hugh martin and coarsely it was said that it's been three most a talk and he said he couldn't clears throat and three minutes and up johnson thought that was all in africa speaking in the president rarely push the vice president out of them or whether the idea that makes the point that it is a bipartisan or non partisan every day to the office of vice the vice president you know you deal about india was some people very briefly henry wilson i don't was most like mosul and that land god you make it appear that he was indeed a good night

vi amazing story he was ulysses grant's second vice president he served as an indentured servant is his family can afford keeping was ten years old turnovers indentured servant to a farmer and with incredibly hard life and then when the complete isn't and big conservative he signed up as an apprentice which you would normally think they'll be the first thing someone who just sir such a such a hard time would do but he signed up to the press or not make use of the time he was in his late twenties he owned a shoe factory that employed over a hundred people and but because this time as an indentured servant he fought against slavery was one of the three men that event's abraham lincoln to free the slaves by just pounding away at lincoln and saying you've got to do this and inner worlds and fought against slavery ito people to write about their doors so that they could so

that they could see it each day as they left the house to think about the fight against slavery and and was a terrific terrific man in my opinion he like so many other of the men who serve the country well to devise frenzy almost more is a retirement resort the semi retirement way to to ease out of public life and didn't do much and vice president saying it i'm not sure that you did justice to aaron burr certainly you deal with the birds live in great detail but it out on the limits of those four bar of a butt when you think of birth as a young as a soldier as a lawyer above and when you think that the jefferson

despise him they either i really have felt says that to suggest the migrant train to the country when you defend themselves effectively in his own grill trump has other one john marshall in one overwhelming not guilty vertical and yuri whose members included several who said the outset that they hang him i i i don't think that that trip down the ohio was oh it was but i don't think i'm a case of treachery i don't think they might have to make a case that he was a traitor and i think the jury will follow is a possible use that hook tied to pull us into the concept for some of the faces a little bit deeper and you think you refer to let me say this i had to write well mind better bird and i think your right as i dont think thomas jefferson decade all that will himself in that role deal with and

remember was brought back to trial and forces attacked by a mob in baltimore like and as like to do with alexander hamilton you know he's people accused him all sorts of terrible things with that over the years there's been no doubt that was you know i mean that like i don't i don't a film that paul i mean i think that when i think he should've unable to tolerate what when how and so the dinner conversation even though it did get into the press i wouldn't even that all births one like i said i had a lot of a lot of conflict my own mind about where does he fit in an important or settle on him so was there at say you may not feel your groove on a chapter is if i read it now or eight years now i think as a writer well i left i n and well

having said that about an aspect of it that are absolutely fascinating i mean his attitude about about being the father of illegitimate children and as you say you learned to do with you is less weren't tested an uncommon what was a common yeah he said that if they won one to claim his father he wouldn't deny them the honor and he had a hard time get along in today's media world and being biased birth without so that undoubtedly wrote letters to his daughter rating the performance of prostitutes if you patronize as the other i'm just in that same vein that we i really didn't know until i read the book that we had a new vice president who took as his third wife the wonders for slate of a bum who was richard richard johnson that's right it was the other john of the vice president johnson was the first of the us every year that with johnson and johnson among the us but this is the first talk a little bit about him because i think the

goal of that france foreign debt he was he was also from kentucky are so he was one of the people who performed well not not a very nice man not nominated lew is joyous was a month a lot of her announcement you know that there is some indication that the women went whizzing willingly lisa yes it to two sisters as slaves it's a slave was at one point the first one ran away with a man that she loved and he had or captured and solar and then took her sister is as is there's a third one is his third wife as you as you remember as you can imagine this was not well received in washington was to society when he would try to preserve the slave women as this is wise either in by people who are forgive slavery arab i

thought it was it was terrible and then when he became vice president had nothing to do with that but that he tried too tapper was on his name and he opened up an end and kentucky where it's from and tried to become rich from his name recognition what they saw from us of doing as as i wrote the book was not concentrate too much on what went on in the heads of a vice president to cancel you telling me allow that what i found myself thing about was what was going on him in the head to the presents themselves as they pick these people and lincoln came to mind i mean his first wife and it was i as hannibal hamlin band moves in the senate second life travelling and picks is mr johnson who has drunk for when he's sworn in now as you point out he was in miller's that felt lousy that they really want well you tell a story it had a typhoid and when it comes to like his two

second like and we had to be there and johnson showed up at the year in operation some people say was drunk some thought he was just sick or was he made a blistering attack of washington society and end of the ambassadors and the congressman especially he did had you say did have three g is a risky debt just before we will hear this as truman and that combined with nervousness is sickness would certainly could that could lead to that kind of thing that but his speech received worst overshadowed lincoln's inaugural address not all the newspapers printed the speech or even the news about it that but among people in washington and it was the big news the vice president says causes trouble throughout our history we have a twelve moments with at the moment because of that talk about those too well the tough amendment change the plane rules of the game before that with adams

jefferson and burr is the person who received the second highest total votes for president became vice president and then virtually ensure that we had a capable person are or recently capable person in that office after burner lee was successful stealing the presidency away from jefferson or least one minded if they did had fallen to and some folks decide we should change that and wrote the twelve minute there's another bill at the time that that didn't make it there were done away with the office completely misses and at no three in the top and then it was passing it basically gave us a system we have now and in my book i thought the coronation of mediocrity that's right because it is russell many other factors and quite attracted different will it ever kind of person and the kind of person i felt would run for

president fourteen for that matter would decide to serve a senator or or some other office there still are questions that that weren't completely dressed in the twenty fifth amendment which is as nineteen sixty seven try to clear up so those things aren't on exactly what the vice president did and in the case of the death of the president are disabilities or disability i don't believe that those issues have been cleared up completely yet the thing was when reagan was shot was in surgery too and it uses the atlanta let's i'm going to do the school religion today i'm in control here and i'm going to winnow out it wasn't but we're not sure who was five at that time so there's still a question as a new awesome people arthur schlesinger says we should do away with the office still our discussion about that they're still lot of things that need to be addressed about assert it does seem to me in this

campaign says that at least two of the candidates gore and i mean a clinton and an n roll or held by gore and stockdale i don't know that we'll ever determined world cruises and dan quayle help or hurt president bush or whether go is prisoner stockdale friend song both think it's helped me a lot through history and history my record that next november will you come back after we have the election and then when discussing yeah i think the riot traditionally people don't pay attention to the vice president as very clear by some women are able to to get into that office and even recently i think when people pull a curtain closed they don't they vote for the president steve cowley author of land ambition as ben our guest on the word on where youre hosted then john sigg involved in this program was produced in the studios of wbez

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