A Word on Words; 0717; Tom T. Hall, Part 1

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . He's a new novelist. This is his first novel. Not his first book, his first novel. His face is one you're going to recognize, some of you, because you've seen him on television.

He's a country music star, best known for that. A country music writer, well known for that Tom T. Hall. Welcome to Word on Word. Thank you John, nice to be here. I read The Laughing Man of Woodmont Co. That's the book. I looked at the book before I read it. It was that galley form paper bound volume that's sent out pre-publication. And I saw all those faces of that laughing mass. And my reaction immediately was too much. I don't know what this is about, but don't think I'm really going to like it. Why did his publishers let him use that face, that mass, go through this book to break up the type. I don't know what this is, but it won't work. And after something through that volume and going back to the front and starting it, I couldn't stop. I went all the way through. To me, it's

a book that I don't usually puff books on the show, but I think that it has the potential for a classic. I think it can be read for an awful long time and having puffed it. I have to ask you, where in the hell were in the name of hell did all of this come from? This plot about this young man is frightening, it's funny. The humor is black, it's body. I mean, I've thought of you as a good songwriter, but as rather a person who dealt with simple themes. Where did this come from? Well, I hope you'll forgive me for anticipating that question because I know it would be asked. I think when I was a young man, this book is not about my hometown Ollieville, Kentucky, that when I was a young man, well, 13, 14, 15 years old, there was

a pool room in our town and there were people who would sit there, that pool room outside on the little bench. And I left there and went in the military. I had the great fortune of traveling around the country as a disjockey from one small town to another. If I get tired of a little town, I'd move to another little town when I was a disjockey. And I think in my mind, the origin of the book is I would go back 30 years later and that same, I had been so many places and done so much and this fellow was still sitting there on that same bench. I don't know if he had left town or if he'd been some place, but these people seemed to stay there and I would move in so much. And then I ran across a quote by Alfred

North Whitehead that said that it's in the front piece of the book, the most singular thing in all of the literature. No, they told Labsons of humor from the Bible as a most singular thing in all of literature. My father was a lay preacher and later in life when he had retired, was the minister of a church. So I grew up around the Bible and I grew up around old-time religion and firing brimstone and all that sort of thing. As my attitude changed and my views changed and my world traveled and being an entertainer, a lot of doors were open to me. I met a lot of very prominent and powerful people and a lot of very intelligent people. And so I said, well, I'm 45. I must have been 40. We have 44 years old and I first started this novel. And I told Randy Green who was then a double dandy with my

editor on my biographical book. I said, I don't have a lot of time. Not being pessimistic about growing old. I'd like to do that and comfort. But I said, I'd like to make, I'd would like to say now what I want to say. I don't believe I have time to write three or four novels. What you're just about, just entertainment. This is something I would like to say. Or maybe these are things I have learned and other people would like to know them. With the exception of Jesse Stewart, not a lot has been said about my part of the country, about my people, about the people who lived in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains. A lot have been said about the coal miners in the mountains. But the foothills we were between the bluegrass and the coal and there wasn't much of anything there. I didn't think that much had been said. And I thought, well, here's a grand opportunity to say it. And they have told me I can write a novel. And so, if that's not too much

of an answer to that, that's before I think it's going to happen. What you're saying, I guess, is that it came from having a keen eye. And somehow it strikes me that you've been like a sponge. Everything that was part of your own upbringing, you absorbed. And now you've sort of squeezed that sponge. And what we've got is the result of everything that was in you. And I have to ask that because, you know, there is sometimes a wistful, plaintive strain to some of your songs. Clayton Delaney, old dogs, children and watermelon wine. Those are not average songs. There's bitter irony in the Harper Valley

PTA, great humor in it too. But this book seems to go to the very guts. I mean, it goes to the very guts of what small town life is about. Let me, to those who are watching us and listening. Let's let the men on James' friends' world. I mean, this is a young man who is disturbed. He's different. There is something in his makeup that the chemistry is not, the emotional chemistry is not working. You've got a sense that it's partly parental. You've got a sense that it's partly intelligence with no outlet for it. You've got part of it is sensitivity and compassion. Part of it is very tough cynicism. Let us, he writes

to his mother, our loving and biting at the same time. And he's a young man that you've got great hope for from the first meet him. And you're seeing with these two town drunks, these two bombs. He's with him all the time, lives out there in this trailer, will of his father. You really have great hope for him. And every step of the way, you get the feeling that that hope is going to be dashed. I have to ask about a fellow who's been known as the writer of songs, many of which have been light, some which have been different. As I say, plaintiff strain and some of them. This is a book to shatter, hope, react to that. Yes, I'm aware that it's probably pessimistic. But I contend that for on the further

examination, it's probably realistic. And then after I lived, I lived in Woodmont Coaves for three years, if not too much of a statement. And I, when the book was finished, I really felt that I had escaped. But then after you lived in Woodmont Coaves when you were writing the book? Yes. No, yes. It sounded as if for the real town and it's not. But mentally, I was there for three years. And at first, I thought I had escaped. And then after I thought about it a while, it's a very pleasant little town. It's a very real little town. Probably a composite of all of those towns where I lived when I was traveling around at the disjockey. But I had a very nice gift when I think blessing, if you were, when

I was a young man. I had the notion that my town was people populated with someone who was fascinating character in the world. Some of my relatives, I don't think they were aware of what great phenomenal characters they were. Well, some of the town Winos, the sheriff. Some of these people, and people I would meet in other little towns, I don't think they were aware of what fascinating people they were. I was entertained and amused by them. And James has this, some of this. And I have a line where what James liked about Mitch and Clyde, the town Winos, was the celebration without conversation. Yes. They would just sit there and be together. And it was warm and pleasant and what else was there to say about it. So, one would sort of talk to himself.

Well, Mitch is one of my favorite people. Very jolly fellow and has this scenario playing out of his head and he's doing a play-by-play on it. And later in the book, he develops another talent that I was delighted to find that he had. He developed a sort of a bounce from the waist up. And I don't know how it's done, but I can see it in my mind. And all that was very entertaining. The question about the Laughing Man, the title, Laughing Man is really a metaphor for... I read it as Tom T. Hall's metaphor for what's wrong with the world. Well, I'm delighted that you see that in the Laughing Man. The Laughing Man, you know, authors are not the best judges of their own books. They're the best critics of their own

books. Well, aware of that. But the Laughing Man, see, there's no radio and no television in this book. None at all. And so he is. The Laughing Man is what I left out. He is radio and television. He's the media. He's the entertainment media. Wheaties and Superman and all of that. But we just have that in that one person and let him do it all. He is the entertainment. He is the entertainment. He is entertainment. He's all of it. Yes. And in my estimation. And I don't know that I knew this when I started writing the book. I'm not saying I've set out to create a book that I knew everything about. That's not true. But I knew I didn't want any radio or television. Forgive me, the folks who are in television. It's a great medium. But I wanted this to be a book to read. And I wanted to find one person who would take all of that. And he does it so sublimely, ridiculously, that it's, I think he covers

that for you. He lasts for a living. And that's his act. He gets up in front of people and he lasts. And people pay for that. And it's contagious. It's exactly right. Which is what probably what advertising is about. People we hope it will become contagious and you want one of these or whatever. And the laughing man is a big success. And James is awed by the laughing man. And then, of course in the end, even the laughing man is not enough. The laughing man is converted. And, well, when that happens, probably all the movies burned down. The television stations shut down. Somebody pulled a plug on the computer. Right. Bob Hope retires. Jack Nicholas goes home. The day the music died. Right. Well, that's maybe an extension of the metaphor. And I didn't

know we were going to go that way. So quickly. But I think I could probably look at trends in the world today. Trends in media. Trends in entertainment. Trends in government, politics, business. Seems to me that everybody is being converted to something. Maybe not the hard rock Christianity like the laughing man. But it's almost like we're caught in a conversion advice. And again, I didn't know that the metaphor said this, but it seems to me that it may react to this. And we're so bent on conversion that we've stopped laughing. We've lost our sense of humor. Does that take you too far there? No. I don't think so at all. Because if the laughing man, the Woodmark codes, is entertainment. Or should we say diversion?

If he is just a time killer and an escape, I don't know. Maybe if you pull that plug that you say and you turned all of that away from people. It goes back to my notion that survival is man's best instinct. That's the thing we do best. We have thumbs and we walk upright. We have the ability to swim, make fire, which came later. Not supposed. But man's best instinct is to stay alive. And everything else he does in my estimation is a little superfluous of life. The rest of it's sort of an ego trip for an entertainment. But it has to take on another value. Staying alive is the thing we do best. And maybe that's what I marveled

about these people sitting by the pool room and staying there 30 years. Content was staying alive. And maybe that's making too much of the laughing man. But I think that's why he's there. And I think that's why there's no radio and no television in the book. And the library is a bus station. It's a local library. Well that's yeah. And James gets his reading material from the local library. And it comes from all over. The literature comes to Woodmark Coves. The same way it gets to the Smithsonian Institute. The library of Congress. It comes from all over and it passes through town and it's left there. And he finds this. And he's a well read young man and doesn't have many options if he likes to read because that's where he gets his the latest things to read. Well there. James is the theme. He is the beginning and the end. He winds up in that fetal position at the close. And you dash

my hopes for him. Well even as you leave me I'm hoping that there is a chance for him to laugh tomorrow even though he's weeping his soul away at the end. What about that hopelessness? I mean well I don't. That's pretty grim. I mean first of all there's nothing to laugh about and therefore I'm drained. I'm left with nothing to lean on. I mean I guess I could go back to that crutch religion but there's no laughter there you say. Well in the end James has James becomes his hero. Ultimately he becomes the ultimate of his hero. He becomes

what the laughing man would like to have been. The ultimate laughing man. And in James's mind he has become his hero. And he does the thing that his hero did even better because he has eliminated all other considerations. And he says I take no medication in request none. I don't talk. But he laughs when he pleases. And for the entertainment of others if they're listening but they think he's crazy and so they don't want to hear him like this. You don't we don't know what kind of an act James has because we've decided that it's not it's not valuable and it's not entertaining this or this young man is crazy. But he said the laughing man didn't you laugh. And now I have it I have it so absolutely down pat. I do it so ultimately well. The epitome of laughter. Why isn't

this an act? Why isn't everybody laughing? He asked that question. And so if we watch television and we watch movies and we listen to the radio and we're entertained the question is if you became the ultimate of that the epitome of all that entertainment if you became Superman. If you became Jack Nick listen all of these things the combination of all of your heroes. What kind of person would you be? Probably be in there with James. You wouldn't be. You'd be putting and he'd be exactly right. That's right. Be very unhappy too. I think you'd be unhappy. I think you'd be unhappy. We don't agree. But I'm so unhappy for him. I mean I guess I wanted him to end up like the rest of us. Not like the laughing man. I guess if we look at the laughing

man as a metaphor for the media we find out how dull our media really is, how repetitious it is, how lacking in innovation it is. And I'm not talking about television already. I'm talking about all of all of the media. It's almost a it's almost a prototype of itself. It's almost a caricature of itself. And the laughing man becomes a caricature in this book. It seems to me for communication. And I don't really know whether James first of all he lived life about as fully as any young man could. He had more experience than the more conventional kids in town. I suppose that there was an exception to that and used car salesmen's son who was a homosexual. But James at times seemed so real to me. And at times he's so elusive. I can't find him. I can't get a

handle on him. And I want to. I want him to do well. But I guess I want him to do well by conventional standards by a norm. I read the lives of other people and see people in the book and it seems to be there functioning as they should. The preacher does what he's supposed to do. The doctor. James father does what he's supposed to do. His mother undergoes a period of growth and rediscover sex and does what a lot of housewives are doing. And perhaps from the perspective of Mitch and Clyde and James, these people are all operating outside of norm. I don't know. He really raises questions about where we are. And to that degree, the book stunned me and shocked me and took me on a wares. I think anybody who knows about Tom T. Hall, what he's done, listens to him saying, is going to feel the same way about that book. Now does that

worry you that this is really not that you come out of this, not the character. So not just the James comes out of the book, not the character that we hoped for. But Tom T. Hall comes out not the character we knew. Yes, well, it would concern me if that's a very good question and I'm learning a lot about the book and talking to you and I believe that I would when I came by. I don't want anyone to be alarmed by the book. I would hope that they would, if I am in this book and that age old question about what's biographical and we fight it as if it were a snake. And so I'm not prepared to answer that and don't really feel qualified to discuss what's biographical. Sure,

well, I'm not asking if Tom T. James knows. But in defense of James, I would say I would have to know more about him than I know. I would have to, he doesn't seem unhappy at the he's in a mental institution. He's completely withdrawn. He has become the epitome of his hero. He does the thing that his hero did even better than his hero did it because he does it without obviously without the pills and the booze. He does it without leaving the premises. So we have to wonder if James is content. I suppose that's the big question in the book. If you always wanted to be something, once you become the epitome of that, I think anyone achieving that kind of success would be mad. If you take a six-year-old, well, let's pick a 12-year-old

child and he watches all of this television and he knows who his heroes and heroines are now. If he became the, not only collectively became that, ultimately became that, the epitome of that. I don't know what kind of child you'd have. And so what are these children? Well, they're more James is coming down the road because is this what they want? So you find out what a person wants and you say, here it is. What kind of child would you have? You'd have a kid in the Superman outfit battling Darth Vader, having hot dogs and hamburgers for breakfast lunch and dinner. So I don't know. It's about ambition probably.

Some of it. I started watching television and I saw a lot of Milton Burrow, the Marx Brothers Old Movies. Groucho was a great character on early television. I laughed and awful lot at a lot of television, some of it not very funny. In the same way that an awful lot of people laughed at the laughing man. Now I watch television and I see an awful lot of praying. Media media has gotten serious. Sure, I see there is a lot of pornography but there are a lot of people who want to, I call it pornography. I don't really know what pornography is until I see it. I don't see much on television. I think it's pornography but I see an awful lot that other people think is pornography, particularly those people who are praying on television. One of the things they're

praying for is to get what they think is pornography off. It seems to me that James suddenly makes his move on that stage that night and he says don't stop laughing. Don't start praying and stop laughing. Don't take yourself so seriously. When we come back next week I'd like to begin right here and pursue with you a little bit and I hope that those of us, those who are in the audience who are fascinated by a Tom T. Hall as a country music writer and performer will join us for next week on the word on words when Tom T. Hall will be back to talk more about whether the laughing man of Woodman Coaves was laughing at all of us. Thank you, sir. Tom T. Hall, author of the Laughing Man of Woodman Coaves has been our guest on a word on words

featuring John Saginthaller. This program was produced in the studios of WDCN Television, Nashville.