A Word on Words; 2805; Mark Curriden & Leroy Phillips

oh i'm just a little once again welcome to word on words our guest mark hurd in and we were at philip's a journalist and a lawyer who are and you come together it about the contempt of court now that's you know the odd couple about america this is a book go that talks about an incident in american history that is romantic importance and it is virtually unknown and until i picked up your book i had no idea about the lynching of ed johnson about the trial and conviction of a john sutherland took place what if he's tried and convicted seventeen days after the rape nevada characters i had no idea about the incident about the trial no idea

about the petition to the supreme court and the circuitous route that had to take no idea about the actual sprinkle united states as a result of the courage of one justice of the court you tell me what thurgood marshall told you goes he talked to the marker and i met in a ninety nine was so ready for that on a cost issue of the time hughes at the aba meeting rican bar association meeting and i had an interview with him at the end of the year you i'm sorry we're still walk gas guzzling you recently with a case us the ship and i share of shipping area that offended him a kick in the contempt of court case and he was like oh yes absolutely and he had read the case we knew about it and the one statement that he left that he told me that resonate even today is people don't understand the significance this case had on the future cases of the supreme court and what this case meant to the ability of the us

supreme court to assert authority while we were talking about what a good name as a lawyer would dramatically change the dynamic it really did it's the first and only time in the history of the nation of that anyone's ever been tried for contempt of the united states supreme court and unfortunately that dubious our bosses sheriff of hamilton county tennessee and it was a signal in the sprinkler united states a step into a linkage king set to work for the first time ever and it struck a blow for the rule of law it struck a blow for the supremacy provision of the constitution of the united states and had they actually herded johnson's appeal they would've heard some issues that were raised much a leader in history the exclusion of blacks from juries the due process clause application

of the fourteenth amendment and that in some of the procedures that were in these the state court proceeding which is of little competition plus the state exactly and now you begin the book in a dramatic fashion as black boys in shenandoah park your party who have been given an opportunity represented johnson said no don't want any part of that your partner has gone to washington to color sprinkled waits all day in the waiting room while a giant of adjusters big and physique florida base sits across as they were on labor early in the evening a recount that scene to keep in mind this is the same justice john marshal harlan who was the only dissenter in plessy vs working with a separate but equal doctrine that established that legalize certain asian in this country it added

illegally some about him i never knew that he had a half brother who has who was partly by our violent career or odd it was my journalist friends idea to start this book often the splash and i'll let him tell you to the what happens record but basically and the great thing about the book is that justice john marshal harlan had many of his papers syllable got the newspapers he would write back and forth to the other justices the other great thing is that your pardon the black lawyer want to be a writer and not all lawyers actually want to be a writer and want to show off their writing skills than he wrote many different newspaper articles about what it was like before the supreme court where to find those at the stadium and the story is is that their egos is sustaining before justice harlan and dumb over overwhelming nazi known in the supreme court had never intervened in a case like this before never enduring was getting out audience with justice

john marshal harlan and harlan those are typically abrupt it was an injustice they really are like a full around very much new appointees finger the other justices noses when he read the sense of justice so holler when a home just to say suffer from this century yeah the last tobacco chewing just as a man you know it was a it was it's a fascinating moment and he makes his pitch and i unfortunately have his own words been able to be used and letting him make his pitch on why the constitution has been violated and why for the first time in history the us supreme court needs to decide that state keep state prisoners and people tried in state court have federal constitutional rights you have any takers back to the same and tell us what was your farm was talking about the tank is back in twenty ten and i take it back to the trial of the scales by why we didn't set out to do this but the eu and we look back and an end and your foot in essence we did here is a journalist the

warrior we get to see our profession hundred years ago and i'm irritated it is was not a pretty sight but it was a fascinating little until you quote what the trial judge did what the district attorney did what the sheriff did only one son what the journalist did i mean their accounts so that this lovely young woman the bottom walking home from work one night her father manages a cemetery and here's a good insight about clothes wrapped around her throat show john consciousness rate less they're strapped is there on the ground having terrible called for her but sharon doesn't know what to do has to suspect it from both in particular but he really suspected johnson might hear some be asked to

this is an election year for sure sure and no tremendous pressure let him to do so little mazel which are tremendous pressure on him to do something and and cut slapping he put a lot of pressure on the show iggy pop or syndications and the newspaper war that she probably could not ever done for anyone and listen they put both of these gentlemen and injury of beauvais johnson and another fellow who was a young preacher jonah mark tries to break in and they did not some in which whites correct twice twice before that holiday emboldened and i just say in that role it's is presiding over this case you know the elections going on and he knows also that the town is up in arms wants and they used to and he says whoever early draft annie intimidates these warriors to the extent that that a labour motion for change of

venue they don't even power motion for continuous bum it would drown him out there's three orders or sore point represent them and they did they did the best they could under the circumspection less talk about that followed the rose seems to me you've got the two lawyers who are distinguished and their civil practice and want a really aggressive and yes it is the big oil is time exactly ended through to come together and it alleges that one more time though he says no real he had he wants out of our week within a week after there right now that i mean that is part of the i mean to lawrie is the very normal wouldn't believe it if the economy and they've fallen file charges against the judge arm but he wants a drop their english and share share wants probably want a

band and everybody's scared to death of this that this thing everybody in the end in a party is scared to death that if there's not a crop little engine it shows how character if it was really you come out of business background elected he was able to maintain so then so then they say are you said they they didn't even file for a change of venue where fortunately the record did show that they stood before the judge and said the last minute yesterday up and said at the very beginning and across a judge we know you're not going to practice but we disappear we're obligated his lawyers asked you to delay this and two and it's somewhere else and he said no not in a good and they do have a trial and byway i'm convinced for more records were able to get that this man was a mess i'm convinced he's innocent and i didn't start out that way but i will say this when he was innocent and guilty

they didn't proven guilty or another to witnesses ah there is a white man looking for a thrilling semifinal reward and there is the victim of art tatum and incidentally mark on notice that the practice of american journalism today is not an internet that is not the name a rape victim and i do in this kind of auto was named another a victim mentioned in your accounts of the time also names the rape victim which illustrates another change like that this is all over at age twenty three nevada dies i'm sure the drummer of that of the us which some details of something about why the names of rape victims are withheld and i i think that there was no crime like it and that the psychological and those went back on the victim is of such an intense degree that that sensitivity is how them love are tailored to his

variation character as she does become a key witness is one of the two that you mentioned it she gets on the witness stand and i says you know keep them ideally way she really identified it was by voice they do the windup and she really doesn't know for sure which one it is only after each of them talk bats or identification is it wasn't the preacher and sounded more like ed johnson that's how she does her identification that on the witness stand under oath she says well i'm paraphrasing panel looks like the guy i believe is the guy the same sky and a soft voice as her attacker omar and also word canada played them build of the attacker in animal trials your stands up and says news ten or can use where he's the he's the attacker can use where it's him and she says quote i can not swear at about that time procedure jumps up out of the jury box a surge rushing towards the defendant there is hard out if i could get in right now i would tear his heart now the judge let's listen to some of the other or give the background a bit of the

environment of the aisle and the mobs and gathering regularly industry thirty people in the courtroom drama about where the sheriff and when they said to john were arrested he didn't take them to natural for safekeeping was a big bright whenever the attack on the job he brought them back and by where there was discussion about that in the newspapers and their discussion or to know that the sheriff work to these two black holes to natural for safekeeping with an election coming out lesbian exactly exactly and tom in the courtroom the people are hissing and booing of espn and this man's own family could not get into the courthouse in johnson federal judge ruled they invade they had the entire courtyard surrounded by big fan and you're in a file arguments thought that i came in and sat on the front row right now but the sad thing about it is that judgment reynolds really demonstrated knoll

disciplinary response to any of that going on gregg wyden well that i'm a southerner i was born raised in trenton and bought little drummer for barry eight years with the the degree of racism that's shock i mean that it does stun me on april made the entire system did it to frighten everybody the judge was frightened the lawyers were frightened about weight that picture this after the defendant is convicted one a lot the three white lawyers say they supported represent stands up and says judge cannot appoint three additional large chicken or with us as to what we should be listening to the latest feel then he'd been railroaded and that's something that i would say that that that there were three lawyers of three trial lawyers did the best they could either they

really worked to try to get a mole and i believe they had raised reasonable doubt and what they did was immediate johnson's alibi when you also get the twelve alibi witnesses eleven black one white they step forward they testify that he could've been at the scene of the crime on as the informant was paid for seventy five hours testify because he was a mile and a half away and quizzical the last chance saloon where you work nights ol man instead of a they just totally totally ignored and olen say it was their analytic laakso owner israel in the world and one that didn't work and you know i do look at the preponderance of the evidence just overwhelmingly supported the idea that ed johnson was not there did not do have particularly in light of the fact that nevada could identify him and in light of the fact that witnesses documenting the arab league that they were white witness who

claimed he was there really haven't had a motive and they were there and and was a lie and a severely undercut his credibility at trial to one of the defense lawyers were shepherd other actual professorial far tore him apart undermined his tech credibility and it really was on not a believable witness now that we can't plan for jury deliberation and they deliberate a day most of the day and the report were deadlocked at four or conviction so despite the racism that is prevalent was like the mom's the door the jail despite the hissing and booing in the courtroom there for jurors in that town who are not gonna convicted anyone a long time stood and really in tears pleaded with the judge bring the violent tale about a celebrity a backer or they bring her back and the judge sort of

advocates his role here and so did the large orders at motown objected to any of this procedure i'm about to do it in the drawer stands up and says and says we would like to develop to stand up in front of mr majid says very well make him stand up and then they only big drawer says some ms taylor for god's sakes is this the right man cleaning your city because now i think it hurt them in their consciences and she basically says well i don't know but i think so far i don't know but i think so and that's when the other jurors he says goes crazy and tries to get to that price to get physically pick says i've got to get my anti case nobody objects to this and that should've been this trial and it was only at that moment as well the judge says well you know we got a long day and

you'll go home with your family is never good night diner and then there's a meeting a secret meeting about who's in that meeting the odd jobs just like reynolds is in the meeting the sheriff is animating end of the district attorney and we don't know what they talked about we do know from the secret service reports there was a meeting and then their shirtsleeves after that meeting riley me for about fifteen minutes and all we know is the jurors are to go on and they have this meeting by the time the next morning with him again or deadlock eight to four ah with torture is voting for acquittal and mobile the comment within fifteen minutes next morning i'm fifty years of oil for converts for cover so ill at midnight but that is the line to try to go back to the court of the nose ring and the jury now this is what your pardon told john marshall harlan and he had the record to documenting and john marshall harlan within no time says you're not kill him you're not killing song love

me and i'm in the execution that was in the immediate future i mean they were going to try and convict him and executed within sixty days in harlan says no we'll put a statin and they put the state and the moderates the jail again and the resentment and one one measure of counseling constantly jail and in his trial later he said they said well do to pull your gun out did you try to stop this physically own not all know the idea that the game shooting someone in the circumstances does foreigner me with a little over bridge and hang him and shooting and shooting and shooting began with it because the supreme court is outrage by the knowledge that no effort was made to protect him and then lead roles and whitaker and share a

particular measure what happened was the supreme court took this action and that's why the mob did what it did and they later try to back up a little bit on that and there is evidence that the sheriff and the district attorney all about the one that has the moms gathered to lynch the judge in the district are jobs are the judge and now now let's fast forward because what happens is the supreme court sends an order to the federal court in chattanooga and there is a special master and there is a hearing and an investigation the secret service makes a full investigation and report and there is an insulation falling charges twenty six people twenty six people were really a conspiracy to commit contempt of court term ma what we say is as they are is a meeting the day after the lynching takes place at the home of the chief justice chief justice for his home and foggy bottom of the st anne or six of the justices are presently

get president roosevelt a phone and so much for saving so again a threat on the phone and he says you know send the secret service down he doesnt from that the supreme court there from the secret service investigations we see it and we have the original letters only print many of them that though they write the letters back to the attorney general you know stage right on letterhead from the hotel to read house hotel in chattanooga tenn and there was evidence that was clear to the supreme court and the attorney general that there was a conspiracy that took place between the lynch mob the sheriff members the court allowed allegedly pledged despite the protection orders and that was a nine year old report that says result of your filing foia documents the search by both of you found on a shelf that we have pledged that we looked at how but it is compelling evidence i'm just really set up next we know there is a hearing a trial of a

springboard the point as mr delillo i think i think late game comes and when it went on to pursue a career in law what does i think then parra conspiracy by some evidence are in the book but the court found guilty the sheriff then chief deputy chief get that information not only muslim mob include nick mullen and then the founders as a bar keeper who was the one of film often fire the shots are some little known then laid off the photos and serve their time come home but a master of welcome ten thousand white cheering people he's a conquering hero he's overwhelmingly reelected your shit bare and the result of it all is so the

spell out in the epilogue you trace what happens to each of the major participant nothing about the book that makes it valuable from our perspective is that history of lynching for making it too talk a little bit about why you put that in there a couple reasons one is that the one day pause worker they like us to show the time and i thought we were wrong to go down on a tuesday morning in his go to ski university and to look at the lynching finally have some files and they have some reports on the for lynchings iowa tuesday i tell my wife ali back maybe tonight tuesday night maybe tomorrow or tuesday wednesday thursday friday saturday the people to ski were absolutely i mean i just helpful and they worked with me and i was there for five days were back again later the files they have the details are in those files is available nowhere else unfortunately saucer deteriorating those files the newspaper reports from black owned newspapers that are not in existence anymore

they have copies of those are also saying investigators to certain cities like chattanooga that in this case and they would take their reports from people about why they went into place who was involved what how but many of those details are in a book without tuskegee university this book would not have been nearly as complete and unfortunately those files or materialism to bring attention to the fact that the just how important files or bomb and those lists of lynchings document both state and year the vast majority of the majority of more for rape oh murder but taken together something over four thousand well over three thousand were for more of rape or murder but in the eu rape cases almost unbearably a black man and why and what will would like you proud i think we're over to

look at the press and look at the law today and profession today then the system today's the arab reform itself largely as a result of this case and listeners that's is it three years ago yvette johnson were able to come back and to china now thirty three years later he would look up on the federal bench and see an african american city and in his own state would've found that the four chief justice would buy an american lawyer the other thing about that but the things that made it worth noting here accuse but bug the press also stretches into heavy criticism right now but it's dramatically dramatically improve ethics are quite different and little rhetoric racist rhetoric there when those papers in that could not possibly get a paper was close about his last words of his epitaph a soaring this research thirty years ago

and thirty years later the most compelling thing to me as a person and as a warrior is that here this man spending on this bridge they put a noose around his neck and they said to them basically ed ru won major maker you miers will confess and so forth and i'm ed says and says god bless you all