A Word on Words; 3018; Diane Mcwhorter

hello i'm dancing and thought once again welcome to word on words i guess diane mcwhorter welcome to you my friend and you know it's lovely to have you talk about carry me home the collected civil rights battle the one that ended the revolution in which you're a part of and i was a part of it i was i was a part of that that's right the day of the tragedy is part of the casually out carey oh this is this is a major work within hours until we want about one of his books that were cheering it but don't drop it on your foot that this took over yesterday well for us from the book contract to the pub date with about nineteen years nineteen year and years well last five years been cutting it down from the u from its original size which was two thirds again islam or three times longer network the actors was you know i think it's so bad that proposal and the reason i say that is close it makes us remember

something we would like to forget vietnam war many of us would like to forget so is movement was a battle struggle an ugly time that in an ugly time and it's something we like to forget so you've helped just remember you focus on birmingham talk about what well harley is convinced my hometown and i grew up there and having absorbed the mindset of the white people the a polite white people who felt that what happened there the kind that the battle between my luther king and bull connor the public safety commissioner really had nothing to do with them they made didn't understand at the time they said oh wear our colored people were happy until now that outside agitator martin luther king came in and stir things up accepted that and then by the time i i was an adult and rejected that or eight or a teenager and rejected it i was part of that anti vietnam counterculture so i never really examined i never i rejected it

without understanding it so i think i really did is drive understand why my city became a college city in a valley of us are the opposite of the american ideal of a city upon a hill that it was very close allies because when i came to say was that sort of the bad the worst aspects of american capitalism in particular collective there an end date and very telegenic confrontation that we all saw our bureau that he saw in it sixty three was the culmination of a huge number of women of currents in the un and in people who had had this immense admission decades before you know it really interesting that political proposal of the union but it needs so much a local were to do vulcan was sort of the savior know about the st louis arch of the new york yankees vulcan was birmingham's symbol and as you say out

because that corporate part resided there the resistance was very strong and it was the crust of it was hard to break it was a it was a different city and i think in many ways one of the king really didn't want to come to birmingham as soon as he can change to me that the that the struggle there as you point out fred shuttlesworth away and so the heroes of american history certainly williamson euro zone was rumored fred shuttlesworth was on the cutting edge of contentious use aggressive he could be abrasive in the end and he was king's men in in birmingham and then on the other side you had the power structure invited in so many different people bull connor one of them would you just

let's talk about the french fred shuttlesworth was a fiery that he's his family and polished at the time and he was a really really wouldn't even strike you that way and are now extremely intelligence a very harsh it's an island state had come up and burning it the crucible that industrial crucible that mr luther king said that at that the funeral of the four girls were killed in a church bombing in life is hardest cristobal steel in birmingham and then and i really wasn't in circles with was a private that he's been in and that many civil rights histories he's been seen as the sort of freak show and he was that he partly because he did these appallingly courageous things that people there and he was caught a wild man from birmingham by the owner of the atlanta other sort of polish elana guys in the movement and he's carried i peeled and when to follow him because he was he survived a bombing of his

parsonage in nineteen fifty six and apparently that you've been anointed by god to lead the struggle and he would put himself in harm's way a lot of people understand it and we didn't when of follow that but he so that was kind of how he's been portrayed in the november when i realized was that he had been on the cutting edge of all they are in a sort of strategic advances in the end he was the first person who realize that passive resistance to unjust loss was really not enough you have to actively divide and commit civil disobedience so for example when the montgomery bus boycott sixty did end getting the buses of montgomery the segregated although actually it was the the supreme court ruling that desegregated the protests really didn't the day that shuttlesworth realize that i know so now the buses in and mar are desegregated but they're still segregated in birmingham and it's not enough to just refuse to ride we're going to go and ride home from the bus and that's what he did and and that was the first to really organized still disobedience protests that i could find in the south at the time he was constantly doing stuff they go to servicing you have to not only

show your own verse she had to show the eu to dramatize the evil of the press or an end he was canceling pushing painted to go further let's talk about to do most of the work through progressive personal view gee you jingle jingle cover i believe it will be a bum bull connor was a great character he's on our screen right now on the right hand side of the screen he was the police commissioner earlier he had been the mayor of birmingham he was a tough minded tough talk and affable little boy he was bubba and italy years tell about how it fits into the picture out there in the discretionary does get him as well we would wag her lap and early and we thought the ball was an embarrassment answer this comic figure and happily they taken seriously and one of the

big of famous episode in this black list showing how bull have been created by they suck up our structure hey his handler was one of the most respected quarter layers and in the city she was very good friends and my grandfather and found and what happened was that people was at night this cracker barrel a baseball announcer and and his only baseball and it is by the industrial that bernie was this big steel town and stuff and bridget is funded is by dionne peel industrialist to try to create loyalty to the company the companies are still these very aggressive competitive teams in civic of the industrial age out of its grail among the the minor league football team there i mean they started there and so on anyway ball was as polar bears lions are beloved in the city and people knew it is at a mall or cannon huge you know he's out

moved by that and that was when as you as you know from ronald reagan's background this is when they were around constructing this and they fly commentary from the ticker tape they were injured often with the fifty years of effect do that it would go yeah yeah other at the ballpark of a few hours if it was a white answer like so anyway he was tapped by the end of the corporate interest to allow him to be this kind of anti new deal their mascot the new deal had just thrown a terrible scare into either the diseases that was all over the country and had ignited this relieved that this article really a minute they on the corporate anderson in the country and birmingham the eight the corporations have to figure out how can we turn the people that these video protocols are supposed to uplift have returned again senator to ball today that they said okay you're in it you're in touch with people and get them to iron to reject what franklin roosevelt's doing an

indy cars to get there which he did this was white supremacy so that was how he was created this is racist mascot it was it was initially as an anti media live and then if in the night segway directly instead of the the racist iconic we know now about the year personnel who work the other side of the street jim fossum and then kissing joan for some he said one time i mean in he would've and i'm a great character influenced time you said one time i you know should they trap lulu you get we'll show you get your jewelry done but not as a paraphrase what he said but yeah but love but it was what we did now look back on as a quote some moderate cause quote no instincts it was farm

bill that first day it was extremely liberal for his day at that point he was this giant oven and has beens and he was elected governor of the state in nineteen forty six and at that point liberalism in alabama had been this for steady accretion of bread and butter butter privileges for a poor whites in the end they consider a threat come in and in a way our disagreement it exactly and concerns and liberals in that was that blacks couldn't enter into to that contract now and weddings and it was said say eat an unpainted about nellie for it every day with a redneck but also with black faces and this was incredibly young radical a time he turned out to be an effective because he was he really was less of a buffoon and he was more intelligent than you would think he was from from the serb a funerary that publicized that he he was no match for the for these bits of entrenched interests and then he can deal he can really work the legislature

to is to his advantage so he ultimately was not that effective but he was as a symbol and has three trillion are the people he was magnificent because part of this home of our lives over story revolves around the klan which goes through generation rebirths in the south but of course it was an existing organization ongoing gyration bull was wired to end the corporate structure benefited from that warring while people who aren't corporate structure setback and demean it but criticize it sometimes laughed at it a lot of the times but basically maintain the status quo because it was where it literally count african american tj in their place and not a

fear an out and out of fear there was in effect a suppression of solar by quoting on top about the influence of clinton and because what you have here is a conflict between the only indigenous terrorist organization this country is produced on one and environmental nine acquires with the money i was going to the moon and then on the other side you have data on the other side you have into this is a lab in a non violent movement nick lowe was laid for the movement a movement with late for an industry in the resume bernie and the us was so are set up really for this for this direction of attention was that not only didn't have the powerful industrial interests are having

effect changes that other cities in the south and how that they also had a cars are really strong labor movement was always been there always butting heads against each other trying to figure i have owned and run leo each other these two interests so whenever that happening was that the labor movement and normally the constituency of that of organized labor those were the ones that were also attracted to the community had this this certain dual pronged parts of these are the working the working people and what it happening once the labor movement caught on in birmingham then the klan became a way to drive a wedge an epic in in the labor force is a that serve we're weakening an event the plane started out and in its rebirth in the twenties and dane hangs right populist rebirth and that again the additional interest supported because because it was not anti catholic organization which an anti catholic liturgy be so it

goes back almost that far so the the godfather of of the klan movement of armor and i would say good i was they're tender to strengthen klan or the good ol boy who are the sort of red blooded vigilantes and then there are the neo nazis to have some freud e n the impulse driving them an end around and enjoy it was written and the klansman that the red blooded honor big trans men meaning that heterosexual were armed were always mccann nervous about the neo nazis who tend to be better educated arms perhaps then they question their sexual their sexuality that the president and on and i can quite you know why they were motivated to hangout well i slip down and so then they were of a different slightly different stripe they did in sixty three what ended up happening now is that these two organizations joined forces because that bear their franchise of enforcing segregation was whistled in my abilities you covered about which you write

that was a flagship of that of that coin of the most violent flagship of the klan and an alabama and is based in birmingham it it was a simple mid may remember robert chambliss was they found the church bomber the bomber listened and he was convicted in nineteen seventy seven only fourteen years after the crime and he was kind of that he then bull connor is aaron boy inside the klan in the nineteen forties to work for the city or for the cigarettes are racing police cars and he considered himself served an auxiliary policeman and was protected bubble israelis who were killing the little cayman hall where yeah day and they were not they were implicated and your scale and goebbels are here they were they were not ever considered one and then when they co conspirators in in the church bombing that had that had carried some public area

and you know i'll just tell our viewers for those you're just joining us we've been talking with diane mcwhorter about her new book girl carry real and without talking about the alec land how the clinton played a role in this in the story of their meal let's talk about them about the one of the great writer what would researchers also gary thomas rowe well we are weird and again when he was the fbi's informant inside his clan and inside the city planners very violent clattering and as a result of that the fbi became more concerned with protecting his cover then with protecting the black people who were about to be attacked by his clan brothers and the most dramatic example that was in the day of freedom rides wendy's integrated bus riders came through the south and at sixty one to test this new supreme court ruling and on and they were greeted in the bus in the

burning of the station's a few rows within a writer's late that when lady barked arises when you can do that or worse they were beat up and the fbi covered it up and did the cover that the roll out now why did they not protect the freedom riders and i knew in advance that that bull connor had given the klan fifteen minutes to work them over knowing that they didn't provide for their protection and after it happened they didn't go after any gary thomas rowe the informants plan brothers for fear of blowing his cover so basically they became the sort of shield on for the klan against a prosecution for their growing today's noted at the center big bureaucratic own cooperation going which looked so out of the lion king in the nominee those inside inside the movement you write about jack a girl who was in the movement and who was close to king and i was a

communist and then the man who turned up in routinely and hoover's willows to justice or via the decision by king to come to birmingham enjoying was shuttlesworth talk a little bit about that because it's a crucial decision then he knew birmingham was going to be the battleground without a question he and ralph abernathy it was shuttlesworth us images wildland their play rowan in deterring king for weeks or months today what he really had to be badgered and accounting my shuttlesworth and the thing that's ellsworth well the thing that made it very appealing with shuttlesworth was

really the only minister and there are in the organization he founded the southern christian leadership conference fail actually had a real matters of met with the leader of a real mass movement in the cities and the ministers are officers didn't really have any indigenous neighbors got it under their their leadership so charlesworth could provide bodies which no other committee really was able to say that that was appealing and ironically shuttlesworth derek mears is famous scene where i decided on a birmingham and keen goes around the rim and preaches not eulogies for every day there because he said summarized and get killed in birmingham i found ironic because shuttlesworth was go to the safest he again we came there and evolve at their church and on the effect a place run their behavior on until late about other stars which of course the war we in reality you have really assure photo album in the middle of

a spoken and includes so some scenes of violence in birmingham you just mentioned the dog and that was a vicious attack it's over one of the ironies is that it has become a joke in the movement the doctor only after fifteen minutes total and they be and yet they produce these indelible images of as an island and they were hoping king city stretches lighting laugher was hoping that they would bring up and they probably died out about two weeks early or three weeks earlier in and they had many first timers out it is interesting to me that when it was the sort of attack to call and ten for the movement in a nod to really telling the truth about segregation in citizen yet so there is an end in and the famous picture and they i'm the dark attacking the young boy were first of all that the boy himself was not a demonstrator

and if you look at an educated up on the screen with it and he is you know it looks like classic non violent acquiescence causes has kind of his bicycle dead and that the cop is very risky if you look at his left hand is grabbing to hear that it's such an amazing bit of boldness that you know for a young black boy at a black youths and today to a cop and so that so that cause amazon is hidden meanings and after that there are all these rumors that audible got the blank rate find that that died and uncut and known that they had and there there are the streets were littered with the deadliest on such as a court that threat that caused that picture and other pictures like it and those photographs and typically the television these rules love dogs and water hoses to flipping people into somersaults and battering them down into the streets those those hoses help her and the nation and the world

toward birmingham and then suddenly the whole focus of the injustice of segregation as you just said and as and an end which is a theme that runs through the book i mean something was up was on the front pages was in the homes and they're living rooms and it was something we had to live with and something we had b with it really sped s but it's not to the cell somehow that those images acting cap eric sevareid cbs it's something like the a picture of fire the hardliners has now recorded an inmate i hear many ways at it and you know and in this archive of a historic memory now holiday that those images came out because they were there or just a so amazing and it's so upset because there can be a story of some medical writer it's now big university medical town and on the loose or as a medical record and they'll build them pull out the pictures of those dogs and hoses and they're

interacting with when we're really does you know interesting that we now think of dr king as he was a hero a nobel prize winner but he has become in our historical mind an image of a very quiet loving caring man of truth all of those things but at that time he was a learned so many southerners an evil influences he was castigated he was burned in effigy and he was hated he was despised and those whites who agree with him those white to agree with him were damned far and barring and respect and supporting him why was sam i was sixteen when he was assassinated and so i was old enough to know better

but i really thought this isn't just give you an example of how white southerners thousand and i was upset at the scale that we now have is reasons that i really thought that just promise for many of her i guess i thought that he was the cause of the south's probably due and i get it i was a smart sixteen year old girl and under that just shows you how the culture of birmingham was a courtroom much of the cells and as a side of the fact that he was burned in effigy was something that that people cheered people stood in the streets and cheered to see that the that american hanging then sometimes set aflame well it took all these years to write this book you know what's next what next the church was arrested and tried

well thank you so much or think our audience joining us to this book area was a great hope your year and just engulf or were words the dream