A Word on Words; 2509; Vincent Coppla

it's not simple welcome once again toward own words our guest benson couple welcomed to word on words good to be here and we're talking about the brain than god which is your newest book a book that are played most people in this country don't know where the real threat is they don't know where the potential violence is an outcome all it's to be found inside the frame of the god i congratulate you on finding a story that hadn't been really exposed this audience and delving into it with great personal courage and great insight let's talk a bit about these characters who populate the sort of a netherworld all of really perceive themselves is christians all of whom see themselves and wilson says the margins of islands doing god's will as a novelist well i work for newsweek in nineteen eighty

four people the kind of people in my book kill the talk radio host named alan berg and that i covered that story he was killing his machine gun to death for daring to want to clash with useful or philosophically and to challenge them and they shot him to death hoping that his death would be the first and the fascist revolutionary they planned for this country that pulled me and i followed them again into the ozark mountains where they had the end time to come years ago where they hoped they would separate themselves and to whatever race war or nuclear holocaust would devastate this country when they would emerge and put their new world order in place now you talk about the following him into the ozarks and m and you physically follow them into the ozarks sometimes at the great detriment early on there's a just to sort of characterize for her orange the nature of the beast were talking about the year in arkansas law and there is

a trooper who has access to that come you know that communal enclave there across lake and you drive out there with them and you come to the gate you tell it we come to the gate allen january morning i guess in nineteen eighty four and it looks for all excited and purposes like a hollywood star kate with a lot across the road and barbed wire and and so on and on the police officer who had no desire to be with a reporter in the first place because he was on the edge of self with the rifle he gets out and he leaves me is gone and he said music if you need it a i was assigned to go there i could've just it's really been sent to cover the super bowl in florida in a car those are about the

upgrade from brooklyn and thereafter they drove us off eventually but i made my first contact with a man and a man named wayne smelled they came in by hand you came in behind him but i thought he was sitting there and i get out with my little paper press credential and say won't drop their lives we never finished that they didn't care where i was from and basically they they chased us away but i was so in trade him a sense of how people could live like this how they can be like this and i want to know i really want to know more about them and one of them turned out to be a cop killer who was linked directly i believe two timothy mcveigh said well you can call it an opening chapter to the navy and then they meet wayne still let's jump ahead just for a moment and talk about the links that sort of tie so many of these different groups together i mean it come on the many different names but

they're all friends and as you point out that there is clear evidence that at least one of them has funded a number of others but the talk about mcveigh and and the links with emotional psychological and sometimes direct links between the movement that involve when snow man the movement to lead oklahoma city well i think the american people would like to see these people are scoops or in the worst case criminals what we can buy which is so distasteful is the fact that they are revolutionaries on the loose in this country are willing to terrorism of oklahoma city had taken a bombing had taken place in the middle east none of us would've had a single question is what it

was an act of terrorism with a purpose in america we tweak hate to come and i agree i hate to do it myself with the fact that our neighbors will kill us or political or religious reasons i think we need to see these people just as a network out there determined to overthrow our government to create a white separatist from what i can see fascist america with no room for minorities where jews would be persecuted and killed where blacks would be the same for them it's a it's an awful thing they know each other and they have a number of very dedicated leaders who or have spent their lives pursuing this cause and they're all connected there's a network out there without question and many of these people are nodes in this network and what it looks like for sure that big day has has been in context certainly philosophically and may be physically with was far right leadership

the yearling the other thai of course links only album together is the china diaries that led to what i would consider a beirut but in theory a piece of the fiction and the red the turn there is out of work out of i guess self interest or self defense but haven't heard so much about them and i read them before oklahoma city because i had heard about the theory and movement the christian identity movement of talk about them attorney there is so we're hearing a lot about now macos the spokesman the blueprint for what lead midway to do what he did welcoming take care of this book it was his bible and he would sell at gun shows for half of what you paid for it somewhere else are the turner diaries

was written by william pierce who's a larger physics professor turned nazi julio relationship i should say will another peers would have thought about in a few minutes ok and that's the american nazi party member back in the sixties who is living up in west virginia now he's written this book and it was the same book by used by the people who killed ellenburg we mentioned earlier it's a blueprint really for a white revolution in this country and it contains the bombing of the federal building in washington it turns out that in the turner diaries this federal building was bombed but nine fifteen am the oklahoma city bombing took place at nine or two am so there are many many connections this book has sold two hundred thousand copies so my fear is other two hundred thousand other big days out there reading and being driven by this what looks like a pulp fiction but it's there it's become the bible of what is there about that you think is so compelling and draws a minute hold up is it simply the un

the themes of a love of races in minnesota's and so many of them together and you know when they are in christ i think it even goes deeper than that i think it's the need to be important to be linked to some cause i notice if you look at these people and their writings in some other speeches and proclamations its offices comic book norse mythology of the area in the viking warrior you know wielding a sword or cleansing the nation has this comic book mythology that voice and people who in many cases have been in this country for ten generations who've never made it socially educationally economically and need to blame the turner diaries blames all the ills in america basically are not corrupt government run by jews using black says they're a storm troopers and here is the white man rising

up to have to end this militarily and a lot of the people i dealt with and this is really what troubles me they see themselves as patriots they call themselves the patriot movement they are latter day george washington's and thomas jefferson's in their own minds and well i would bet can vaguely on the other thing that does seem to be in welding forces there a sense of the cost issue belongs to them and that those people who are in official positions in government particularly those in law enforcement are frequently targeted by them i mean you recite the tragedy of of the two troopers who were slain you recite the tragedy of another trooper with him was a black man who stopped

one of these violence prone terrorists driving violation was shot with eleven times and the malaysian sun themselves targeted by them what is it about the what is it about authority that seems to set off this rage they claim the government is illegal the government no longer represents them that the government has drifted far from the original intent of the founding fathers which of course they see as a white christian bastion there was no room for any diversity whatsoever so that there's but as a group called a posse comitatus in its leader gordon call it killed jewish you killed two us marshals back in nineteen eighty three they had tried to arrest him on an income tax violation and he shot them to death claiming that they no longer represented had any

authority over him so this is a very troubling thing i think if we look back at the klan for example in the sixties in his own deformed and demented way it saw itself as patriotic as enforcing a lot of the land which happened in the segregation the fiery cross of jesus i it's now the klan has become a revolutionary organization as likely to attack the government as has any minority or other enemy is a big differences and focus here the government is truly the enemy of these people are can you begin to estimate how many of these enclaves are i mean we hear about the militia of michigan wake up you write about the areas of idaho you you engage them and that whole ground couple grunts three corruption in in arkansas a n o u m i mean what we know we know that we know where many of them are we know that metzger operates and in california john

metzger i'm is really weighted it's in government even know how many there are and where they are and how they operate which we cannot call all militias white supremacist or sip separatist on troubled by militias in general are armed are armies roaming the country looking to get into a scrap woodlawn for days lennie groove here but there's probably four hundred militia groups recognize in this country today if you think the four hundred probably twenty percent of them have been infected with this virus of hayden and racism and anti semitism without question is another couple of hundred extremist groups the problem is we never know if it's one guy with a fax machine or or or the hardcore terrorists cell planning destruction are probably estimates are there are probably tens of thousands of people will embrace this philosophy in this country maybe hundreds of thousands of sympathizes with beeswax and why and i think what happened in waco

texas drawl many americans into the arms of the far right i think what happened in oklahoma city drove them back towards some semblance of normalcy waxes and wanes talk about that we talk about that dichotomy because it seems to me that many americans don't really understand that that david koresh as cookie as he has he's seen indeed is confusing lot budden has become a martyr and with many with many of them and certainly with meg whitman day in self randy weaver and what happened to him and to his wife and shop i mean that really has been so some of martyrdom to look for that for the very group where we're talking about an incident crystallized fears that that that the government was slowly woman venal and as

you say illegal it if there is a soloist and this permitted passion to two of the english they're so what those they consider their christian compatriots this man gordon call i mentioned earlier who killed two us marshals and later a sheriff in arkansas he was a grandfather a war hero in world war two these are not people that we can always identified as as losers unfortunately in the embrace of some people who look like us who think like us who saw themselves least at one point as americans who now come come into this hour again we have a look for martyrs gordon cole was given a medal posthumous medal as a hero and the second american revolution i think we need to again see these people jog as revolutionaries looking to bring about big changes year you talked about

the numbers the numbers really don't matter in a sense because one person can do so much damage if we recall a catholic priest in my book that says they would never turn idaho went to this racist state but they can do an awful lot of damage all about him because i think he's an interesting no there there and in this so many of these groups and isolated areas and they operate without much opposition occasionally somebody like like a catholic priest or like a lookalike area like a county judge our county attorney in rare cases stand that they have the guts to stand up and there were people and there were people on but in in the waco on truthful though isis to credibility on the sled and cannot happen to people and so the danger that and when it did it but it does take some courage to stand up against the missing you know i notice is that there are people these people and this is the good news they contain their own antidote their hatred their animosity their rage or violence

somehow triggers the opposite reaction in a lot of people i've seen this as i travel around the country talking about this book a lot of good people have wised up and say wait a second this is not the america that i i believe and we have to keep in mind that they're very good at tapping into real grievances you know we had a million farmers go bankrupt since nineteen eighty in the parlance of people are hurting in jobs or are living this country and gone to mexico in some cases is a rust belt with with people who will never again work in this country so there are some very real grievances that these extremists are very good at tapping into and convince very easy for a farmer in in the heartland was raising more grain than ever before and yet goes bankrupt it's very easy for that man to say somebody is manipulating the system something isn't right here this is what these guys have been doing and you want a government step across the line as it did in waco

is just feeds always paranoid your conspiracy fantasies i think about a way to fund themselves and they're the unsung stories in the media about about the fraud that that took place and said courses camp compound and the manson stories about how they use the computer to rip off people but goes beyond that is a book points out i mean you have actual robberies mass to why is sue of bird arrives are two of art heist end and big money is an vaulted money still missing in the nineteen eighties i mentioned the group that killed alan bergman silent brotherhood they stole was three four million dollars which they were very careful to distribute to their colleagues around the country no one's ever been arrested or

prosecuted for this but there's a lot of evidence that the leaders of this revolution turned hundreds if not millions of but dollars over to fellow radicals to promote their movements i we were looking at the republic of texas last week so called paper terrorists but one of the things that they did where it was issue in effect their own money and an file lanes in and stop the process in and begin to create any sense their own network kenny and you point out that that there have been cases a very crude counterfeiting their emotion and an actual bankrupt and a couple of millionaires who were very much willing to use their resources to finance these movements want one in missouri and another in oklahoma was a young man who has a sign over and oil and banking fortune who dedicated his inheritance to promoting a white christian identity and supremacy so that everybody is on a dishwasher there are people here who will spend

to fund this you you weren't you also have of the section that when you're when you talk about the good that would you believe the money you know the pierce actually receiving the offer the ground arias actually received what was it fifty rented tom metzger actually get funding was that you know there is that story all of them i guess you'd say of the night it would add was that money spread around in your view or in the and very much so it was very very much so these people somehow have the money to purchase stolen military equipment week we saw cases the other day in california when know militia group was rated these guys had hand grenades they had automatic weapons they had night goggles i mean they had weapons of war or the grupo visit in the ozark mountains had an anti tank missile sitting there so there is lots of trade going back and forth with some allies i guess they have in the military but there is money out there to fund these

things let's talk about the other or another element that binds them into los angeles for conspiracy since the fourteenth and emotion in the transaction and that is anti semitism and it runs very very deep and it's not just that we are variants that jesus was an area and according to them that that we are quite an ozone long life there is especially good for the jews are very very special corrosive hatred and inside of me being out there for so many months exposed to this and began to eat away at me that people in many cases had never known a jewish person could be so filled with hatred i say in the book mom got an apple pie could exist in the same head says he was a genocide case the hatred

for jews was so virulent or they see them according to this identity christianity as say panic and postures in some cases the seed of automating between the serpent and even the garden of evil deed and they see jews as as traditionally historically evils put on this earth to try and visit tribulations upon the white race said they deny the holocaust of course some have accused the right to my face jews of planning the holocaust to make themselves look better they see jews as as not the whole of the chosen people not the people of the book not even truly coming from the holy land they described uses mongolian tribesmen cold case are as an and white people as the true israel and christ born to germanic parents who of course went to northern europe and then by extension to this country which is now the promised land for these people or somebody told me that the upper

arkansas now represents know is our god how can so many people didn't i say so many i mean we may be talking about of a thousand people or five thousand or forty thousand people really not many people but so how can so many people in so many different locations be infected by that same medicine at martin's i think in many cases they hate because their parents were haters i saw for sure they're now bringing their children into this hatred maude i think anti semitism has been a strong con floor not only in europe for four thousand years but in this country for a couple of hundred years a henry ford the henry ford was one of the biggest anti semite and publicize so it's been very jews have been blamed for communism that

now blamed for controlling the media and their printer for sending these streams of filth into the into the houses of people in the heartland she was out i mean of all the things you say you saw it too they single out jews there is that the other is that the marmoset ago in which you are sitting in a living room with a woman her husband is one of the a lovely a nemesis of the lovely of their brand of christianity those under those bubbles out in a rather good natured conversation she's an interview but there is a deep seated anti semitic they could believe that really that when you die i wanted to visit one of these identity christians and i spent the morning in their church which looked for all purposes like a nice normal peaceful god loving church with white with a stained glass and it was a nice ceremony for the most part in your grandmother's there in young married couples and after the ceremony i was thinking maybe i'm being too harsh

on these people maybe i'm just typing this story but i went to the minister's house to do an interview and i was sitting around a coffee table with his wife and their other church ladies who looked like church ladies anywhere and pastel pantsuits in their sunday finally analysis saying you know it was nice to be there had been on the road a long time now is sipping a cup of coffee and one of these women turned to me i was i guess he said you look like a joe i said excuse me she said you look like a jew i said no i'm italian catholic like the pope and she said what you look like in june and just the fact that this is what's considered appropriate behavior would to invest in your house and you can see how that can go to the other extreme we're you know if i was a boy i say i wonder if he's telling the real truth and probably june claiming to be the gallant

an issue and then you might've been the first year she oversaw nothing but people embracing that same philosophy machine gunned ellenberg to death in denver for daring to clash with them so it's a whole spectrum and i have to tell you i was more troubled by the women and children showing this kind of hatred then the guys i expected to see it from the guys in robes in nazi uniforms and the guys with pictures of adolf hitler on their walls and i saw a lot of that too where is the gun ago made to happen this is growing happen this country get him alone my biggest fear is that if in fact we face guilty there's already another person out there looking to get revenge and to make mcveigh a mortar to their cause there's no question this kind of alienation is so extreme realistic these are creatures of economic dislocation of alienation i think we need to shine a light on the fall coming we can ignore them because they don't ignore us they claim to wannabe separate but again and again they come out in the

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