A Word on Words; 0908; Vincent Bugliosi

no word on words a program delving into the world of books and their other it vincent bugliosi talks about drugs in america eurostar a word and words mr johnson publisher of the tennessean is welcome once again singing i guess is no friend he's a distinguished also use best known lawyers in this country was a tough prosecutor vincent bugliosi it's great that about a word a word helter skelter lessons language to the manson case in which puts the latter part of when you were a prosecutor up we didn't say you were nine what was about to say well look our was the defense attorney dr sergio on the other side a murky and that was the animal we did we did get that on cbs with cbs for an insurgency and say yes that's right and now a

change of pace now this book about america i had is now described as a compelling essay on the most damaged a frightening an obvious change in american society for my lifetime and that is the emergence of the year or and again i made clear that its cocaine that is that is the great evil the great threat the great danger whether people are talked to libby at us customs and see it as a criminal investigation division or the iris all nervy a drugstore eleven working with no one thinks that marijuana is responsible for the drug crisis in america today and according to knight of the national institute on drug abuse often for each user of heroin or thirty three uses of cocaine plus cocaine is a source of crack which is at the root of the orgy of violence blood and asparagus been coughing our interstates are

also a cocaine a it is a drama but it's not a true recovery of marijuana apparently heroin or narcotics i mean you know these singing if i got involved with this a narcotics a fairly demure pleasant tiger drowsiness are cocaine is a stimulant because as paranoid behavior aggressive behavior so it's a much more dangerous prague and the principles and the proposal i've come up with are equally applicable to marijuana and heroin but the focus of this book is cocaine and particularly the colombian drug lords putting those people out of business down i mean i know you weren't as one who when you were a prosecutor was so committed to to law enforcement for i mean you were a tough prosecutor tough but fair and tough but fair process fair but tough tough tough air you're the last person in the world i would expect as a law enforcement just has not been a solid problem won't work

and he uses a number of its party activists uprising where the outrage of almost beyond their air quotes him as saying no way will lose the war grubbs this cleanup along forced to serve the chief of police in washington dc i believe recently made remarks to the effect that we cannot arrest ourselves out of this problem long fourth as much as we should continue to use law enforcement of the objective is to eliminate this crisis that we cannot continue to rely on these means we have to go beyond that that you know that the president i states says that with tough law enforcement cost of education programs ii we worked an addictive we work with foreign governments would solve this problem you just take him on right it's a strange thing because in every other area of human endeavor aware existing methods assault probably

will work which is automatically without thinking we we use new math that it would try something new more and runs we just absolutely refused to tweet week we try to give the light along fails them that all things must change by continuing to insist on pursuing policies that we've been pursuing for seventy years that we know simply not working well one of the amazing things that came out of my arm research all the yard a hand wringing the dire language the apocalyptic language that we hear today but drugs are destroying our society i thought that was a rather recent vintage start looking at the old microfilm newspapers pass if this has been going on for over seventy years years ago committee report in your legislature nineteen seventeen the problem of a narcotic drug addiction has passed all the bows a reasonable comprehension the state of new york and immunized they soon become the greatest evil which the commonwealth has to contend or saturday evening post covers sixteen nineteen twenty nine a jazz age the wholesale

smuggling of narcotic drugs into the country's a grave ministry national well being a lot and i can read you one more or to jump ahead to nineteen thirty nine which is over over fifty years ago but i have a whole world litany of these articles new york times reported forty us treasury agents invaded the san juan hill section yesterday and arrested twelve narcotic dealers before descending on the scores of tenement houses ages blocked off access by placing automobiles across of girl for marlon williams district supervisor the treasury or caucasian said for more than twenty five years now we're going back to nineteen fourteen san juan hill was resisted every effort by long foresman agencies the cleanup in recent years seventies and been killed in the past two years more than to arrest had been made that the narcotics trade is not an impaired now if if these existing means to solve this problem on force protection eradication which have been going on for years are some interdiction called security is what rational reason beyond we have to believe that if we continue to rely on these meetings there's subtly start

working on what rational reason we have to believe that i'm like i can't think of any and we start examining the individual means no long foresman we know does not work it has not worked if you look at a scale our graph of other dips and cycles as a dramatic increase in drug use drop the years in production are us customs agent each phrase of bessie knowledge isaac to blow the balloon he'd rather than one place involves out another i draw the analogy here also if we could and interdict the whole chain in trial i was an over there but i've heard that we could the path for calmness supplies into south vietnam at about fifty to sixty feet wide how can we didn't think to interdict dean stopping the flow of drugs into this country over southern border which along what occupies four thousand miles and unlike the poaching then trails not just the land but they are above it one cargo plane full of cocaine are about two hundred and twenty pounds mr swann cargo plane will

satisfy this entire nation for a whole year that shows the possibility and interdicting now the the drug lords don't build fill up one plane with cocaine that might be the one of twenty that happening in redacted op the vice chairman of the chief suspect in nineteen eighty eight testified before congress that the entire american military could not keep the drugs from from coming into this country eradication has not worked why it's the nature of the beast because i find out and it was a learning process for me to call the cocoa crop grows up can grow very well in any subtropical climate in elevation between one and six thousand feet so all those indigenous to prove bolivia center i can grow just been many many regions of the world even if we could eliminate all the coca crops which isn't possibility but assuming argue and all that we could with some military troops down to eliminate all soon as the engines of the jets taken our troops back to america were turned out you know the cotton crops would start regenerating in the cold

laboratories cocaine laboratories so much come down to this now what is the real source of this problem and i knew the source as the minds of those who make all of these things happen feed the growing of the co op doesn't just happen by itself or the processing of the crop and cocaine in colombia doesn't happen by itself the letter carries on hands of the room this morning in the country there are people at the top of the pyramid that make all these things happen if these people besides that they don't want to do it anymore it's not going to happen as a simple zappa question is how to get them to the side or they don't want to do it well that's what this book is all about it is an anti messiah that it's the first time anybody has really looked at the drug problem in my judgment and has sought to go to the very core problem and i say until i picked up the book that's and i had

become reasonably placid and now mine i read that drug use is going down that drug use among the young is declining i hear the president say we are winning the war i remember nancy reagan's age us so you know i remember of bill bennett the former drug czar are telling us when he left the office of great strides have been made they were emphasizing not only law enforcement interdiction road but also education education is going to be the ultimate answer would you give the you make about education but you also say don't count well even though we have to realize that virtually every adult in america today that using drugs already know most of the dangers of drugs and they've decided to use knowledge respect the nation's youth we should attempt to reach a hundred percent of them would not be able to do that we should attempt to but even if we were successful in and discouraging all american units because of education of the dangers of drug for from from using that you were

completely successful at something we're never ever been achieved let's assume arguable that we reach a hundred percent we convince a hundred percent of them never to use drugs that will install the drug problem for what the future the horrendous drug problem we have today would continue for many years it's not acceptable i'm talking about something that at least on paper and we all know about the chasm that exists between theory and reality of talk about something on paper which gives promise of reducing the crisis with the matter are five or six you know you draw now surprise and the book is full of surprises from a in some ways it's out of character the vincent bugliosi and i applaud them because i mean this is a year this is an exciting but a technical approach to deal promptly ended you took a ship and then surprise knowing our yard a lawyer is our minds are committed advocacy would look for the best example but

but i was a prosecutor at the war in iraq as an example i love what you say and what you do you are good way out of what i talk about is your it shows is it if there is a commitment on his way grenada a ragtag group of leftist revolutionaries take or that island i don't think one hundred people in this country would know exactly where grenada was and within a couple days six thousand american troops invaded that island tanks planes that artillery etc panama canal this this this little tin pot dictator down or no threat to this country not an actual drug trafficker no no i was not producing drugs was not selling drugs when he was he was eating and a betty okay twenty five thousand troops invaded panama and i don't believe the reason was begun warren drawings i'm not

a political analyst that everything that i read in the case of the reason for that was to install new and friendly government here laurie out of there the state department has admitted that a couple months before the invasion they offered noriega deal will drop all charges just get out of a cannon i'm convinced and iraq that was all over oil i think president bush told the truth at the beginning he says talk about oil we need for people to not accepted so it was like yeah it searches frenetic me for a different type of rationale fight comes up with something the public works at this new world order whatever that means but i'm convinced that if they grew grapes are avocados in kuwait this thing would never happen and yet he was willing to send over five hundred thousand troops over there and the estimate casualties at the beginning which is how we have to judge the bush administration i read was around fifty thousand casualties so for willing to do all of that for them infinitely less valid reasons than more slowly force your eyes more say since when i'm recommending here has one month before his small search and find mission to

columbia to grab these drug lord with a scruff of the neck ring of this country we get into that later where i you know i think you just you know i think you set the stage for your proposals for solutions here which a novel i shouldn't be surprised that their innovative bug explain why there were first of all when you touched on search and five to start the first month the well and certifies first locally talk about them the money thing aha money is the reason the problem it's the first record that that the whole premise of this book the whole premise of this book is either we are serious about solving this crisis where we're now if we are serious since the problem is a severe one equally severe revolutionary tactics have to be employed to solve if we're not serious giant then we should stop which is cheap so i feel about that is not seeing drug war rhetoric all are warmer than last stop the rhetoric stop all the

parts and my first proposal aren't we have to speak in general terms with the detail of my first proposal takes cognizance of the fact that these colombian drug lords have one and only one motive the profitable and if they can't get their money out of this country they are not in a center co came into the country i think that's common sense they can't get the money often on how to get their money out of the country well the other two basic ways to get their money on the thunder one way is by literally smuggling actual currency from drug sales from the streets of the country the way small movie cocaine and the other way is wire transfer enough to stop the first way to stop the actual person from leaving this country will require the use of two currently an external currency in an internal parents not anyone who's watching his program najar who were saying well we'll let anyone to say this is just too far out i

repeat i repeat either we are serious about solving this crisis or we're not surgery was the reason i brought up the war in iraq because what is it of something comparing what we did though right now the present kersee we have would be the only currency that would remain legal tender outside the country would no longer have any value inside and that's the dollar bills having a primary part right the second currency would be a new currency new color blue shade of green which only have value inside our borders therefore it would be useless to smuggle this currency from domestic drug sales out of the country as one set left the borders it would no longer have any value of this would require americans to change their existing currency for the old hurt in a song before outside the nineties as a yes record i would not be that big a problem the east germans exchange their oss marks for deutsche marks i think in june of nineteen ninety in january of this year the russians all fifty and one hundred reynolds i think where chamber russian citizens from war not at anyone trip to the

bank i thought that will be forgiven the cost of this i will get into the second one to do it briefly with the psychological impact of that it seemed the first law that when i first read about the idea right eisen american trade green money for bluer every show well i mean i read your book here and i'm the type has said and eventually i and analysis that subliminal at all but anyway i mean what would you really say is i think a psychological impact that is every time you've been picked up new money to say i'm helping the war on drugs and doing something or look what are suffering now i was suffering in virtually every family in america are the majority of them haven't touched in some way by this rug hers and always in a negative way by audio the second way now that they get their money out of the country without even though but when i got into this i started thinking about the money

thing there's always a last supper where all good at all a lot of the wire transfer to a wire transfer for a second way giant would require the presence of us federal agents in residence at key banks in america the intricate to clear every single wire transfer that when out of bank secrecy given comparable says money starts out by going to panama uruguay are the cayman islands or move netherlands antilles everyone else would have to be clear now i point out in the book why the federal government doesn't think they can do that and i give the evidence why they can't get the strong legal bases where they can go into a bank and interdict every single wire transfer without a search warrant without probable cause without any suspicion that i said what about search and seizure were at what's happened to the gas station and then you throw our job to let me well i guess the border search exception worse than the lawyer the border search exception crossing the border crossing the border a

conveyance or person thinking research without a search for probable cause or any suspicion of all and that the banks are the functional equivalent of a border that he says to support office no worries you run to put money in my pocket and cross the more on subjects urgency here without war ii that you're saying if i'm going to take money then transfer that money buy electronic impulse across the border and that is a convincing and it needs to pass the senate we all there's all types of cases where want to just for example someone at the minneapolis airport about to board the plane en route to tell more nigeria they search in there without probable cause many suspicious look and there are likely lots that's not the border was deemed to be the functional equivalent of the border they can search in his planes crossing the borders that's the functional equivalent of border search exception to the fourth and then the courts and also held that the mole of a transmission across the

border with his by foot care plan or whatever is makes no their first the border search exception in this particular court in the supreme court which has not ruled in favor of the narco traffickers i don't think it'll last fires yup i can't conceive of how they would hold under existing law that wire transfer which immediately transfer funds across the border by electronic impulse would not come within the border search exception so you would do to these electronic impulses our i would interdict them i'd stop them stop them and i find examine them and i called the center would be called you know the centers are again this is all stuff that i learned and money launderers they don't live in drug circles are different people cry criminal record usually very respected members of the community are cpa his lawyers businessmen and if you happen to be a businessman a new one a wire transfer five million dollars in drug profits to an account in the cayman islands and you know an agency to call you on the phone and asking the dreaded question where did this money come from a lot of the heart of the question that you

cannot answer i don't think you can order that were friends or just all figured i computed the cost of this the dual currency the change in the currency and have the rsa visit the banks to be about five hundred million dollars not to lay people it sounds like a lot of money but you know jon on the national stage actually one star power is going to be seventy five the second proposal giant target is they are much more muscular approach it's a small scale military search and find mission on colombian soiled not an invasion when nothing is the colombian people in retrospect those people very very much what they've put up what that was unbelievable in twelve supreme court justices murder is on the attorney general murdered the justice ministry murdered the head of the anti narcotics a place of murder anyone who opposed them murder we follow and we know they split up to these people a lot of them there's a saying that's come out of this war down in columbia and more pronounced i think its plot toppled

formal meaning palm are what is a now barren lead let or silver i may have that i may have a year out to take the young bride money or take the bullet we know that a great number of main find people down in that country great did not take a bribe money and all that because they're in the late forties the laws are dead right now right are assertive my mission on colombian soul for the purpose of apprehending these drug lords bring and back to the united states to face charges there that was responsible for the cocaine blitz american all the reason we're not doing now i've found as i've heard the term posse comitatus in an automatic horrified dealt with these tax rise up in north dakota with a bill now a different thing and i got sicker court has resumed nineteen ninety that obama knows all about they think that under the law they can use the military to enforce the law while looked at the

pasta come upon a fly with a reconstruction era lada not eat eat and sunday at the post post reconstruction and that the need for the law clearly rose window that the south was accusing the victorious north of a corrupt were using federal troops to help northern part to get elected in spain office insider up to the past as posse come across law saying that the military cannot be used to enforce a civil law but look at the congressional record which i did in the legislative history so obvious that that law was only intended by congress they have a domestic application was never intended to to preclude the use the military for instance two to arrest foreign drug lords violated american law but there's a much more important reason why we should that assertion by nation in in colombia article two section three will be for godard to section to say that's the colombian drug lord more talking right now are presently under indictment gets in miami and several other american cities for violating federal drug

trafficking was article two section three the nine states constitution and this is what's been told we overlook south won the war on drugs specifically provides that the president shall call take care that the laws of this country be faithfully executed unquote the us supreme court interpreted that not that it needs interpretation but they said that this means that the president has the duty to enforce acts of congress you made a thousand phone calls or one call was to call congress's they are all your of your laws other acts of congress it didn't know is that yes they're all acts are therefore under article two section three not only does a president might give the constitutional right to send a surgeon find mission to colombia to to capture and arrest drug lords i charge and drugs and murder case for making that has an express explicit constitutional duty to do so that if he does not do selfies before not brought back to stand trial the charges against them than the laws of this country are not being

enforced are not being faithfully executed him in any of the language in the constitution means anything president bush is in violation of constitutional duties i was surprised to hear you say to read you didn't you say that to that the response in congress is among song mom's the sun house much more real much more aggressive land in the administration has generally we don't think of dogs that were recently carry messages from the seller to those you mentioned who have seen the commitment beyond that though vincent we just as we recited here when you say sounds so rational and you make it so reasonable i read in the book and its sound and it comes across and will come across many don't read the book would hear this theory and as radical

as a bubbly all that is is a radical act and respond to that because i think that if you can get beyond the concept that's radical i will light you saying that the knowledge that there is a rat less effective well it's radical in the sense that it's a tall complete departure from what we were doing on the north but i i say this if we had been doing this in the past which to me is very conservative and inexpensive and quiet and then someone came along and said no we shouldn't do it this way we should go down or arrest these people to try them and we should have a global currency what we should do we need this have dried by killings you know i have three hundred and thirty thousand cars are young infants born every year with cocaine into stark language in ending warfare and have our jails our courses or floor return to shoehorn these drug cases there that would be considered radical because are you crazy when you have the simplistic way but it is viewed as being radical because it's a

bold departure for what we've been doing in the last seventy years when is that what we've been doing is just one said the answer would be if it were a radical approach right we do have the jailed a lot longer to have children right i want to put one little tag to the yacht the military search and find mission to help ensure that no one's gonna wanna take the place of the drug wars we apprehend i think we need the drug the death penalty for drug kingpins which is now from a conversational recreate that also when i come up its legal support for office a special federal court which we can have that expeditiously prosecute these drug lords so that therefore if one of them a sense that death is execute within a year or two i find it still consistent due process we're not talking about circumventing the laws at all i find it hard to believe that new drug lords would emerge knowing the fate of their predecessors and also knowing that they would be unable to conduct their business outside the reach of american armed forces would intervene the moment the new drug wars in words know what these people do to create

the incentive drugs in america has been our guest on a word on words featuring jon seaton of this program was produced in the studios of wbez and televisions nashville tennessee