A Word on Words; 3116; Bruce Feiler

once again welcome toward own words our guest bruce wheeler how are you so good to see you try to cover of nevada was going to do last time new year you don't want me where the bobbin for all have are and now you're ready to what new labor you know before we were last year less time pity you'd said that that abraham was a compelling subject for you and them and the gop do something on my guest hugh maybe already when the project a chemical couple weeks and the knock knock on him a couple weeks ago and it was it was fascinating to me and i never thought they ram there's a sort of father figure of three separate your religious strains but you obviously had not been the idea of a rail strike you as you were walking the bubble where as i was walking the bible this journey

i made that we talked about last time retracing the five books of moses through the desert i saw reported jews and christians muslims i certainly understood that he rammed played this role for all three faiths but the two about all i did i mean i was so concentrated during that period work on the second millennium bc the time of abraham isaac and jacob the time of moses that whenever something good about christianity or islam or even that judaism as a religion we would say in the market aug router wrong millennium denied a thousand years to deal with the three continents five countries for war zones i was busy enough and the book came out the spring of two thousand won as you know became this book that touched hundreds of thousands of people around the world that the writers fantasy and i was busy working in the fall and german rest of hebrew bible and testament got a call from my brother on september eleventh look outside your window i was a miracle morning and watched the towers fall and and if you listen closely you did you heard those questions today why do they hate us can the religions get along and since i had been in the middle east one named echo behind those conversations over him

abraham he's the shared ancestry judaism christianity and islam he is the great pitcher to the hebrew bible of course the experience of four foul of the new testament the grand architect of the qur'an this means he's the father in many cases the biological father of twelve million jews two billion christians and one billion muslims around the world half the humans alive today and yet we know almost nothing about them and i in particular didn't know that much about him until i decided what i do in times of crisis and times of joy is to go on journeys so i went back to the middle east in the middle of the war to the text and in many ways tried to answer this question which is we could was he just a source of war or could he in this hour the vessel for reconciliation and the nice thing about the book i mean anyone who if you read this book i just say this you know if you read this book you'll find that on this author over

and overlook the opportunity to exploit the anti muslim feeling that exist in our country i think if i were islamic of you very good about reading what you've written about i think that i think that to deal fairly and on the subject of willie with a bang the father of islam it's very difficult in the stage well it's very difficult these days when when the extremists are trying to grab the microphone when certain religious leaders are going on certain television programs like sixty minutes and sang muhammad was a terrorist which is tantamount to declaring war i will tell you what i learned on all these are the right boxes of the way to tell big stories to tell small store i had these questions i went astray and i

tried to add to them for myself and i've been asked a lot of why walking the bible an hour abraham why why isn't that these books are reaching this popular audience do you say and for anybody in the audience who doesn't walk in the bottle hit the bestseller list and still merciless in a brown let me did you hear it you don't know is on the way it is so good it did you know it came on the first week of numbed in the top five a way of time and it was on the cover of time magazine i think that i've bought a lot about this honestly it's not good for me to really understand this rich leonard but i think that most people who speak openly about religion in america do so from a position of servitude or they adopt a position of certitude because i think that they should and mostly it's religious leaders and they have to espouse a patrician because they're in a tradition and i most of us out in the pews are most of us in a pickup truck because we're not because we have doubt and we struggle and we have questions and i think that one of the reasons the night been able to do this is that i'm not speaking from a tradition in the future

defended out was losing my job as people have done at this began his values and disney time in today's question then and now i feel like i'm going with all these readers and that's a great opportunity now what you do as well as an essay around in his time you address in the region in our time this is in a very real sense a wonderful travel i mean you take us to are some places that are very hot spots in right now as you did in walking the bible and he introduces to people of all sorts of religious fights and i feel as at home was a as i feel with an end to don't leave we had to put on the baggage at the top were those people

say third and then we oh we oh feelings about traditions different from iran and i think that baum i learn the answer to this question today after he did it had been talking to our people need the fifth movement i met with a rabbi the summer the memorization quick clough engine a mission to recruit police and i said get some tips for having a fake conferences bacon conversations going to allow that now he said my number one tip is don't speak in the first person plural speak in the first person singular another words dont say we jews are we christians i'm speak for yourself and so what i had to do once it was somebody has to say come about yourself become how you feel about this i tell the story in my book about going deep into east jerusalem climate the duchess as you recall and then going into the small white washed room and about ten forty five has brought our american his first term you wouldn't sit next to me as

we are seven he sat across the room and down his name is shaikh youssef others may now he's the mama the locks on the third hole is mosque and islam he had his dark hair disappeared in these black eyebrows that reminded me against my will of ayatollah khomeini he was also nervous he never spoken to western reporter before and so i can i began personal tell me about abraham and he was very skillful abraham loved god he submitted himself to ally he did everything for god some that was work and so i'm actually titled have direction and i might tell me about the pilgrimage all muslims are called to make a pilgrimage at the blackstone the mill we've all seen pictures of that was built but you know him he made a polish five times this month but what's it like to make the government we feel very close to ever have silent him to cry and that's gonna write about what is that wonderful some people are quietly because they're in pain some people while abbott did you cry i asked her many times what kind of tears tears of worship and then once had

made that personal connection and then you go talk to forget given the events in the world how can i not field the spare more huge but the jews christians and muslim follow what's in the text he said then we we can reach an ad but we have the contacts i said and he said but the messages the salmon and an end and this was so hard to believe that the european reform plan to the building's happen i feel sadness that you see you get that same answer of hope almost everywhere you go i read this book and i get a whole lot of money i you know when when you heavily the leader islamic who says we can reach the same point of reconciliation and as a jew or a christian says to me i hope the

lesser known as leno separate because i think what i'm talking about what happened this week what's happening now in this situation we are in now is is a not understood it was more than a nod to the news maybe and if i learned anything from my travels combat walk in the bible but to go on this matter is often you can learn as much if not more about the present but turning to the past and by understanding how we got here at the heart of this story is a family feud abraham makes a partnership with god in genesis twelve he goes forth he's looking for a child he can have a child so it takes a major party's and abraham she does british now insert to spread with isaac we got two sons sarah forces ever had to kick a small out into the desert he does sell but that god says i will continue to bless ishmael and glass eyes of muslims are descended from ishmael jews aggression from isaac so you

understand that and some that we have a new way of talking about it it's a family give him that huge leap at the worst that it's unknown that's interesting opposite around the corner but when i'm saying is if you understand and how the religions tried to elbow one another aside and climb a brand for themselves then you can begin to see how we got here and i think abraham is the path that we've got here then maybe we can say maybe he's the pastor leaving us all about by the way this is a this is a beautifully written books and it's a book that you don't have to dedicate your life reading it and it is a it is earthquake wonderful read what and said that let me take you to the internet so that got no no no no no no none has taken to them to the point of a shot at a point that attention goes

but it is a problem to contend with him and how do we get to traditions saying god told abraham to take your son isaac take his life our low over a room take your son ishmael take his life i mean what's the end while the back the tax cuts go back to the beginning to understand in genesis twenty to contest a brand take your son your favorite one isaac whom you love and take him anathema as a burnt offering k so abraham picks issac up there in the last minute the angel says don't do it and so isaac is saved that story appears in genesis twenty two and then disappears from hebrew bible never mentioned anywhere again it first comes up again when the time to christian villages of philip preston is and where we were going back to that story and we like look and i say because he suffered more than

over the program that encrypted come along in it so well or we like that store because it seems to echo or maybe even foreshadows were set up what god did to jesus or a brand newly sacrifice isaac but god did sacrifice his son jesus and then just come on as a way that when i put it the sit down that's what abraham detroit is it up there this is great interpretation that he killed and the first time he went away for three days came back and then in july the city built on the second time in fact his story was so popular that juice in the middle ages geez i should put ashes on the forehead to commemorate the sacrifice isaac and every wednesday for a new cd that's what happened to catholic as well as a boy that's the point the point is it really just got ideas from one another along comes the qur'an ominous eccentric in the qur'an as you know it does not say which son it says take a son your favorite pick and it's not meant to there was a big debate the early years of islam well which one was an affable said it was isaac his efforts in genesis and the qur'an says

that the bible so and the other half's in a dish now because atlanta for additional and they went back to the beginning that your son oh i didn't know which one and got a say your favorite one thing rams don't seem to be so sure and he says isaac and then he says a new love as if what abraham feels toward isaac may be unclear and to muslims and looking to clear take your son your favorite one the new love means ishmael and isaac was just inserted by the jews and christians as an act of blasphemy it really is ishmael the message in the text isn't universal message god doesn't care he blesses both isaac and ishmael the religions are the ones that tried to claim a brand for themselves and try to say he's hours alone so if you want to untangle this not go back to the original story have stopped listening to the religions and many ways and go back to listening to god when historians float if you're just joining us with it is talking about his new book a ran his bestselling book following him bestselling book walking the bible presented at the

city very very proud of of of what you've done but he's taking off a religious mccrimmon not even managed to the use of over quite well let's talk about the region itself know when you were there before september eleventh and after september eleventh we know the fear that has seized us and we know how it gripped well with with it how is it there and how is that they're particularly for one who is talking about the most basic of all religious conflicts and controversies in the region boy whose father is a right and that's enough to stir christians and jews and muslims up song the shortest answer to how what is there is how it was here in those weeks after september to me september eleventh

two thousand won his the data middle east came to america and the feelings that we had been physically afraid not knowing the future and yet also feeling deep love of our place that that is what you feel every day and elise to finalize that a couple weeks this film seem similar on a particular day when you're over there so i think that this is the sort of daily failing and i think certainly to be in israel conservative house intern tours as i have been since september eleven there is definitely a feel a feeling that we are in a bad place that that we are in the grip of the downward spiral rather than close to two away working as we were a couple years ago are still feeling is that we are we have a situation where the people themselves are actually closer to understanding where we're going to be in the future with a sort of side by side a pattern nick that the people are ahead of the leaders as we know that they often are all around the world and we

got two leaders who were in a sort of old situation but if i had to prognosticate which is honestly i'm not comfortable doing but i but i get the sense that that we've probably seen the last of these old leaders and that there are a lot of places around the region awkward gerrymandered models for how the religions and how people can exist side by side we see that in jerusalem a lot of cases we see that in hebron with a tumor the picture actually rams barrett himself with a prayer alongside one another it can actually happens we'll talk about that visit since made of of of all the stories you tell your conclusion that there is hope as more clearly when you talk about that spot and that scene and an end and the frequency with which that occurrence that plays alice didn't go out i'd been before the budget times to have on you know my mom cried the night before nafta and a night well i kept our side i want to test these feelings of optimism in the bloodiest plays sociable toward

hebron one of the ugliest bloodiest cities on the planet the epicenter of the conflict between muslims and jews and yet the place that contains the echoes and maybe the glimmers of reconciliation i set off self from jerusalem on what's called the sniper road because palestinians and sometimes even israelis shoot down of the cars below and i came to kerry and other heavy get out the palestinian car get into a jewish car and then go down to the tune of the pitcher whose giant building and it's a cross between a gymnasium and a castle last time i was there there were ten thousand jews dancing joyously in the streets and the state was empty so unsafe that four israeli soldiers and helmets and machine guns or had escort me inside and the room between abraham and sarah's terms it's been turned into a ramshackle synagogue with overturned prayer books in the dark walls in a chandelier rapper bob drought and it's here that a rampage was seventy five dice and won the most haunting but overlooked passages in hebrew bible and genesis twenty five nine his son's ishmael and isaac

rival since before they were born leaders of opposing nations come stand side by side and bury their father abraham issues and therefore he could never achieve in life which is this moment of reconciled reconciliation a hopeful flicker of possibility when they're not brothers or when they're not the warriors or rivals jews christians or muslims their brothers their mourners and i think they are us and for me that is the model and what's powerful about the moment john has what it doesn't say it does is it out had dinner and that happily ever after and just as they stood side by side and i think what we're talking about here is not some giant esperanto mumbo jumbo of religion or well one lesson we want you can have your faith she got her faith he can have his faith but we stand side by side that's the moment i let me tell you to reach churches very briefly with a record a decade ago by robert

massey who also wrote occasionally good knots the story that the true story about them the notion of british naval power but there was seen endured not and which has an old wooly and his cousin the british print come together at victoria's death their grandmother min willie had come from germany and was sitting outside a son he was making belligerent noises towards the british relatives cousins and they made and set outside until they realize his affection for her so great that they brought him in about that time she died on the two cousins lift her body and three runway two two placer loyalty table for

the preparation for burial and they were that moment standing side by side and then i after i finished reading on a thought to have said that that war or flowed from what was really a loving moment i think there is an analogy of the same year an and i come away from that same feeling you know there is some hope they are so close together how to properly help germany italy france and britain fought three wars a century or eight hundred you absolutely cannot you cannot drive from a bicycle without a passport we fought a war fifty years ago between germany and france they are close allies and fifteen years after the holocaust when fifteen million six million jews were were killed and the

catholic church that the best look the other way vatican to command nineteen sixty two and said they are older brothers and there is a pickle change is possible that epochal change happens only if we don't look over there and say the focus of a bomb of in kabul in a hobby rhonda dixon borosage respond we have to do it each of us one community one workplace one call it again and again and again in the last year i've heard it said the levers on that a little bit over it there's no way to get over it and i and i ask no way i mean we got over were or one we got beyond world war two amin we rebuilt part of the world and we can get beyond this but but it's not take some senate takes up you would think that since the story has such deep buried and religious groups that that that that the piece that is part of all religions yes and the justices the

part of all three religions would take over because it's there you say that ms olcott as well what we what i learned is that abraham exist in the initial story with a universal message and then each of the real hidden allergens try to claim him but what i learned is that basically abraham is like water heaters every blowing ever present stream that exit has existed just underneath the surface of the earth for as long as humans have problems of stories and every generation everyone had moments of joy in crisis has tapped into that source and just as god chose abraham he's generation chosen abraham for itself and why come out of this journey is we can do we can choose our own abraham for our time and he will have a message of unity he will be the father of jews christians and muslims this ever have will be smart enough to know that everybody wants respect that some people will fight for murder fly planes into buildings or send bombs into schools but this abraham believes that his children still crave dot and still long for that moment when they can stand alongside

one another and pray for their lost father and as you say the legacy of peace that was his initiative mandate and one of the phones of a book book us to understand how the three fates come to different conclusions about core belief this understand how deeply committed he chases to its own government its own doctrine an end and so what occurred to me was bruce is flirting with danger here because people who are deeply religious do not want to believe that the mileage or granite or anything but absolute truth did you worry about the middle so i think that nothing i'm saying

is incompatible with a notion that the stories i think that sometimes we might have to as the mama volokh says its new look beyond the details which we may disagree about and embrace the principles but i think the truth this story does contain truth and the story does contain gotten those stories but the only thing it i don't think it contains is the notion that i have the only route to true and that my god is the better than your gut you when those planes bomb those buildings rather than them my version of god spreading your version of god and i think that so i guess what i can say on guns i cannot promise you that this is going to carry the day i cannot promise you that this this hope this conversation this pluralism or just break out and we have to resist that but what i can promise is that this is the defining question of the hour and that we have to speak up those of us who believe in mutual respect and dignity and an n different religions having their own route to god

so we have to speak up today and as i said to you i cannot say speak in first person singular i can say is gonna work out all i can say is for me i have learned that i believe in a lot of these things i didn't realize i need to say them out loud now i know i believe at the senate now and now i have to invite people come on this journey with me but also calling neighbor and have a conversation about this conversation they tell you what's number one rule of public functions or speak about religion about six and saying we should all think about well we've run out of time on site that my friend bruce schiller for for this discussion about his new book abraham thank you for coming a goal of you for coming and johnson and daughter were words reading john dingell welcome to a word on words i guess

toddler how are you don the fundraising right that you talk about horsepower to nuclear power this is the no more than energy pioneer and you are the pioneer consider myself i don't blame him you the story starts on the farm town when you're not pioneer them and i saw it on the farm windhorst paulo where the only power talk a little bit about those early days in nebraska with an eye toward letting people who are a lot younger than you and i know how it was before there was on attracted to replace the horse before there was a rural electrification to shed light and it was a different world it was very different and no i learned on a source in his horse two of the

vehicle or two in the informant is not terribly useful