A Word on Words; 4242; Doris Kearns Goodwin

from nashville public television's do a celebrated authors literature and ideas for more than three decades that this is a word on words jobs oh i'm john singleton welcome once again to a world where my guest today is no different than they face the most to doris kearns goodwin pulitzer prize winning author acclaimed presidential historian political news analyst and her books include lyndon johnson the american dream team of rivals the political allegiances of abraham lincoln they are desolate was his ear today with the latest book the bully pulpit that roosevelt william howard taft the golden age of journalism deeply insightful study the decades long and often complicated friendship between two presidents and the birth of the modern political world grid and they'll sell glad to be here long one book one a book

on that this began as a as a on rondo monastery and turned into a book about what what led you to go from focusing only on one post them and tune called grave the life and ritalin amount it began as it always does from a i want a deal with that president i wanna live with that person for a long period time is my books takes a lot so i started with lincoln and i know i couldn't write about it about him fourteen thousand oaks already written so i had to expand the cast of characters and became team of rivals which was one of two men he was in extraordinary men to live with and i was once a live with teddy roosevelt but on the other hand have been great biographies of him so i knew i had to once again expand the cast of characters so i started realizing how much will it leave howard taft and teddy had been friends how many letters they've written between them and how heartbreaking it was when they finally broke apart so that became part of the story and then i finally realized

that somehow the big difference between teddy and taft's leadership was that teddy was brilliant and understanding the use of the bully pulpit which he mentors the presidential platform that can mobilize public opinion and taft never understood that so he fell short in that way so then i said they had a muckraker isn't only journalists in there and so it became a larger cast of characters the best that i love it owes and lived with three presidents to get these two books back i always say that somehow i wake up with them in the morning and i go to bed with them at night tonight he's dead presidents all right well let's talk about today and that you know of and what emily thinks he's you know about the note though prof smut is i found i knew very very little but we know is so much to know about a minute in it so it was a rough rider what's or of ramadan fun and they found out he is a rough ride areas in his

parents' phones with corporate taxes and dealing with the political opposition and he was quite a man i think is the most many sided present it maybe jefferson had only sides but i never lived with them there was no lettuce for sure i mean his physical stamina along was extraordinary i think it came from the fact that when he was a young kid and had a life threatening asthma and his father said to him becoming too frail he was reading all the time that that was great it meant all his life treating was his central recreation he said you have to read a lot to understand human nature if you're a leader and you can only get that through fiction and poe poetry and prose but then he was becoming too much like an invalid society don't make your body and it becomes this manic concise guide boxing wrestling matches walks through rock creek park but at the same time he had mental curiosity me not only reading on books but he would read articles and if you like the article that i had really could have been about bird watching are

bushwhacking the guy would be his office the next day having lunch with them so that the combination of that physical energy and somebody said about him that they'd seen to forces of nature in the united states a british my count on niagara falls and teddy roosevelt i don't think i've ever met anybody who did more things added at a good pace working hard all the time let's talk a little bit about captain howdy factors in ireland you know they were friends of friends they were they were of college for a while and they're really intimate really cow semi read those letters and they're you know he'll say my beloved and there's a set in which they they both felt when they were young that they were young reformers taft is solicitor general teddy's civil service commission they're in their thirties they become allies and they very different tact is obviously with his weight much more sedentary doesn't engage in these crazy on boxing wrestling matches or teddy but teddy understood the taft had really pleasing personality secondly a man with taps personality beloved at first sight he was a very

warm smiling good man and then tap and the attendees fighting spirit so they were very different but they formed this alliance ten there's a light in washington they like close the job there are the neighbors and they walked like everyone to work every day two different roles let's talk about those two different of us army and uses them to washington seems to me the place that was going to be the home of their friendship no you're absolutely right in fact and you can almost see the two different paths they were on at that point because teddy had from the time he graduated from college gone into state legislature and then police commissioner civil service commissioner he loved political life he loved being at the center of politics nothing and gave me more joy and power politics kept on the other hand always wanted to be a judge he'd been a young judge as young a judge in cincinnati as teddy was a young state legislator and then solicitor general was a step up hopefully to be

coming on the supreme court someday but they share that a hatred of corruption at that time and then tap goes on in part because he has a wife who loves politics adores him and wanted to be in the political world more than judicial world sleek sets the job of governor general ship of the philippines which leads to is coming back and to attend his cabinet teddy does offer in the supreme court three times his dream but he was too loyal to what he was doing in helping students are you doing good work he really did he believed in the philippines and the people put on huge demonstration when he was gonna leave at one point an aegis and i can't leave and teddy set one respect you although more and then by the third time he offered it he was already a potential presidential candidate big family council of the taffe family out and you got a go for this you you never have another chance for years almost without question now meaning no you know i'm self well enough and that's what's so sad himself well enough to know that he wasn't meant for the public spotlight he was the perfect number two

person all along but it's hard to turn that down when your family and your president i say you're the best man and the only one to carry on that legacy and so we made that seems to me to have a taste of power will road didn't use comparable same comparable is live alone part of the story though you it's a world cup o women who love them absolutely i'm in two very different women i mean edith roosevelt had come from a family that was once wealthy living right near teddy roosevelt so they were childhood friends but her father lost his business and became an alcoholic so all life she dreamed about having a family and the security of the home because they had to move from one home to another home and eventually to she and teddy had a fight when they were adolescents he then fell in love with alice hathaway legal beautiful young woman from boston married her to the devastation of edith but then after they got

married she died in childbirth and he eventually went so sad he went to the badlands depressed that he would never get over it never marry again and then that opened up to him the open spaces which become such a party also that about their plans for the same survey of your usage awake to the world these goats antelope powell politics and then the piano jazz legend sonny goes out west to the badlands and and what happened is he joins a ranching action on his ranch and he's doing ranching up activities twelve hours a day and he said quote inactivity prevented over thought was the only thing to get him out of his depression in a good finely sleep at night and then suddenly the love the open spaces seeped into his soul and he becomes this great conservation person and has his depression subsides he comes back to new york and he sees edith again he thought he would never marry that was something wrong with meringue it was good against your first wife but they fall back in love again and it

turned out to be a joyous marriage but the important thing about where she came from she had no desire to be a political wife no interest in talking about politics when she becomes first lady she doesn't give any interviews she said a woman's name should only be in the press twice when she's married and buried and what she wants is to create a family a sanctuary a still point for him and that's what he needs well as manic energy whenever he went home to sag a more veiled what are there or to the white house family quarters he could relax totally and replenish those extraordinary in it the energy is that he had no the opposite nellie taft when she grows up in a middle class family in cincinnati from the time she's an adolescent she dreams of something vital for herself she wants to go to college but her father sends her brothers to harvard and yale not her so she takes a job teaching her mother says she'll never go in society if you're doing this and she's unlikely to marry i wanna do something in my life she's way ahead of her time but then she meets young well taft and he adores her and respect her intelligence and

really wants her to be his partner and promises her that she will have half of that marriage which she does she spurs him on to everything he does she's a sort of human nature and it really despairing as a procrastination part of it and try and he was nervous about taking each new stabbings so comfortable in each level he once said i would've been happy being a cincinnati judge of abandoned finale so she's the one who was happy when he went to be solicitor general when he first that the jobs governor general the philippines election never wanna content thousand miles away with little kid she says mr on reddit that what you know for those in the audience who may not be lawyers are familiar with the way the system works solicitor general is really the laureate of the united states government for that interesting hour in corso in that role he plays the dynamic is a dynamic force in in the administration the needs a voice before the court now and he wasn't sure he could do it cause he was much happier being a judge we simply have to judge between enough to be an advocate as solicitor general have to be an advocate and he did very well so he'd get confidence

in each level along the way even though each job scared him in la said he'll be fine and he does a good job as governor john deere classic video argues absolute then within say gives you a new sense of yourself then he comes back in to teddy's cabinet and he really is his most important advice it when teddy would go on these whistle stop train tours for months on end i love restrained towards i mean it it's just something that allowed him to connect to the people emotionally and he became some essential wasn't happening absence of ego and their hunts for weeks of time is no don't worry i left half sitting on the lead then these cartoons a big cassidy or lead or are there does come a time when he's there is original do conflict they grow distant but after just a just a moment in cincinnati and pre clear it

from what you write that he had a judicial mind and additional being beaten and wanted to be on that quarter more than anyone and then they nail salon he was comfortable there and don't you know i read the book and as culpable it's a robo was in the presidency i don't get the same feeling about that paul absolutely no the question is so clear and he said when he first got into the office i feel like a fish out of water if i was sitting on the supreme court now i feel perfectly comfortable it's a very different kind of life i mean teddy loved speaking to the public he loved those short and phrases that he could mobilize out of everywhere the square deal you know speak softly and carry a big stick taft would speak like a lawyer he gave these two hour talk and on the audience was dropping off after an hour and half and he felt uncomfortable dealing with the press which teddy adored doing in part because as a lawyer you not as a judge or not talking to the press all the time you make a decision and hopefully goes away they no longer had teddy as this number one person so

long that he had someone ahead of him he could do great but then when it was all up to him but more importantly maybe than any of that this is one of those moments when you never know how history could be changed by a person all of them so when allie first becomes first lady she so happy she's a really helpful strategic person to him she tells him that he asked and dinners which he does with republicans and democrats progressives and conservatives he's doing really well the first couple months and then she has this devastating stroke and she faced on the un presidential yacht she never recovers her ability to speak even though she recovered or billy walker read and he's trying for hours together to just say ordinary phrases like and are we find the teachers or how to say happy to be here glad to see you so she could stand on reception lines and his military aide archie but said he'd never see who wears a why a little guy some will only becomes a character because he was the military aid to teddy and to taft and he loved both men so when the rupture came when teddy came back from africa and decided the taft he thought had betrayed his legacy because he

had gone too close to the old guard in congress he you know he captures archie but does that rupture in heartbreaking line which really like so every day to his family so i loved archie binding wages are and for those who just joining me and all the doris kearns goodwin about her recent book of a little bit here of about william howard taft the golden age of journalism unless a stronger moment about about the golden age of journalism obviously it's a compelling interest to me and to you look our woes report was some human being he had a vision and a magazine really sort of was a full flow more of the invasion but he put together a team of muckraking and that's a very positive term in the lexicon of jon hassell allen thrived well what happened is i came up on knowing about him when i read the best history books about the

progressive era they would mention this guy sam look for who they said had ended as much of an impact on the progressive moment as did teddy roosevelt so when i really looked into him he founded this magazine in at ninety three wanting it to be a mission for the good and he did something unusual at that time he gave his staff reporters several years of staff money to research their projects and expense accounts glory would always run out of money cuz he gave his staff so much and it was probably the best journalism group the best collection of journalists may be at one place at any one time ida tarbell lincoln steffens ray baker william allen why are my god it's incredible been an unnamed sailor know me too and so the interesting thing is they loved it so much they knew they were comrades they helped each other on their work all the time to each had different spheres it wrote about standard oil and john d rockefeller ray baker is focused on the unions and the railroads lincoln steffens did corruption in the cities and there was a sense in which they knew they were

mobilizing the public sentiment and teddy knew he needed them because he had an old guard in congress that didn't wanna passes can russia rose reading his congressional legislation and so we need to mobilize public pressure from the outside in and their stories became nationally read stories and they would they would have twenty thirty thousand were herds people were gobbling them up they would be in twelve parts and they beat they started a common conversation and once those stories came out people identified the problems of the industrial age and congress have to pass the meatpacking legislation the food and drug legislation the railroad legislation the ad i trust up and they were such a big part of it that years later even long after when they became in their seventies and eighties they look back on this period they would need for sam accords birthday and they look back on this period when they really thought they were changing the world with incredible nostalgia the most fulfilling period of their lives putting them back on that period and in the article you drifted toward change the world really change a day because of the glass was actually write it and he

understood that he needed a partnership with them as somehow it worked without their losing their integrity and they would come to his house for breakfast and lunch he would read truths of their articles ahead of time and then they provide the stories for him winning sound on the trail try to persuade people his real story is to talk about but yet he knew they had to be able to criticize him which they did and he could criticize them and argue with them you know your two radically honest and the realities of politics are in the center and somehow it all worked even though some of them later turned away from him at that time it was extraordinary utility playing the rule would it would've taken a really impressive person to follow it anyway i mean even so colorful the people adored him and whoever came i think there's going to be in his shadow and certainly somebody like tattoo came with the combination of not really liking the job having his wife his great partner unable to speak to him

and not quite knowing how to deal with congress he did actually producer tariff reform bill that did something of what the progress is juana but not enough so they got disappointed and teddy had been smart enough never even detroit tariff reform because he knew would split the republican minority and then went ten he decides that he can't bear the idea that his progressive legacy hasn't been floated as much and decides to run against taft it's just heartbreaking for taft and he loved this man and the brutal campaign in nineteen twelve when they call each other names that they can't possibly have believed i mean teddy would say of tap that he had the brain of a guinea pig in your house warning was was a puzzle when he was a traitor tenants would say of teddy that if he gets into this third term are one of what chairman of the terminal never leave the zachary south well you see the light i mean you know i think that not only was because the progressives wanted him to run again but he was only fifty years old you should never ever have made the pledge that he would run in it no way he would've won the night in a way it had seven and a half years chris mckinlay dyson year nineteen oh one he didn't there was no law gets two terms

really hadn't even served two terms and he would've won that election but he later said i would've cut my hand off the wrist not to have made and then he just couldn't at not being in the center again and he felt his talents were exercise was one of the happiest presidents i think i've ever ever read about you know one of the beautiful things about it is there is the area of the volga waldman and i like that just to take a look at the photographs and then you go about on you just go from one thing after that mr yoo well here's what's great is his cartoons were always a big part of the newspaper world in that day and this is uncle sam looking at teddy and taft and saying that your clothes are fitting you write these as if he's trying to put teddy roosevelt's close and it was a large frame which means even more than that you're not being yourself you need to be yourself you trying to be teddy roosevelt and will never work and so the rather large three hundred and fifty pound half cannot fit

into teddy roosevelt closed so little bit of mother or that's the picture of teddy roosevelt his family and as i say those that that family gave him the rest and relaxation that made him the president he was cause he needed with all that energy to go home and just think about boxing with the kids and was a very close knit family and eat it was the mother or the wife to him he adored her all of his life and when there is that so this is fun the difference between teddy and taft as cora's teddy loved horseback riding dangerous rides over fences taft couldn't really ride well obama can you imagine all know that at the end of our employer but taft immediately loved one more beals he never liked voices he was too heavy for a letter so he took to that newfangled automobile right away this is teddy's inauguration and the interesting thing about that his inauguration as almost all the big events of his life was sunny was beautiful day when taft became president it was a blizzard

and he said i always knew there'd be a blizzard so many events he went to rain or snow and teddy they called it roosevelt whether he was always so lucky actually was on this day liz's at speaking and again those just to kill asians the fiery voice the crowds wary people say it's sitting on hills when he went out among the people he made an emotional connection he says i talk to them without that harvard voice i talk to them in an emotional way that my harvard but he's thinks is too folksy are homely but they got him because he spoke to them and this has been a contest as the head and the papers are blowing away from him once again a lack of a lot of unease felt sometimes two hours long his papers would go away he would work on his speeches at the last minute teddy was never late he did everything ahead of time visiting what i worry about things like we all that when you last night you were a tap worried and worried and writers both speeches at the last time and made some mistakes because he did it so here he is with the pages in front of him now this is the morning of taps the inauguration and the two are still friends than

and in fact have disliked over in the white house the night before that's a great picture gap where he has an aisle that really lit up his face he was very warm and people like tim anybody that saw it was a kindly gentleman i'm glad to have spent time in and i knew almost nothing about him before it began well he was not well known and there is as a harvard decided to leave and he was not too heavy than he was to fifty but that was ok for his way eventually went up to three fifty when he was sad and anxious but when he became supreme court chief justice the last decade of his life he was backed into fifty one he got his dream and theirs teddy at the same time at harvard a pretty good looking chap apps with those blue eyes so and the mustache even though that i think that said that doesn't and well let's talk through the end for a moan about the sadness that has ensued as you read the book and a new funding

close down and sure they're low level of differences and the bumps in the road as they go on you can see that the two different personalities on eliminated all three of longwell and then suddenly the reason it's worse than that i mean they really hurt each other during that nineteen twelve campaign here so i couldn't bear and in the book they're so i decided to follow their relationship until ten he dies in nineteen nineteen and a first was so frustrating cause even when friends tried to bring them together and never worked on tax and was a lot like you at least you know that they would be together but could get absent the bitterness was too grey but finally in nineteen eighteen year before teddy diocese in the hospital has an operation and tapped it had that same operation so he wrote them a note and teddy rah back breaking the ice a little they also were both met at woodrow wilson's about how but finally in nineteen eighteen about eight months before teddy dies they happened

coincidentally to meet at the blackstone hotel in chicago tap comes in is going up the elevator the elevator operas in juneau mr roosevelt as in the dining room eating allow face it will take me down immediately he walks over to him as a hundred dinars in the restaurant on an island look we've been told i got it was one of you there that was their work and so he walks over and he puts his arms around teddy teddy said so glad to see you want to sit down the entire restaurant breaks into applause as they know they've got back then she was here was right and then so that night and he says to the reporter i'm really glad this happened was in a splendid of taft only eight months later when teddy dies taft is invited to the private funeral was in a public funeral and he told her he says to thank god we got together i would have mourned the fact all my life and he died in a hostile state of mind and he sat there for the eye and the grave an isolated figure crying and standing alone that teddy of course and died at age sixty of an embolism in his sleep and the vice president said the time depp actor taken

sleeping for that would've been a fight which is charles will note and this is the woman who was so good behavior ends with this book is just marvelous thank you so much for the banking giant so much and watching i'm just a word on words people and reading