A Word on Words; 2610; Robert Ikard

building in st paul once again welcome to war on words i guess a medical doctor and an offer we gonna talk about robideau the icons no more social issues the story of the columbia race riot nineteen forties i know why you wrote this book won't tell our audience what he wrote around to go to record the event i had gotten interested in it during a summer history course i remembered it from my childhood all or remember no particular reason and nothing about the rat also came upon some sources there were voluminous and accurate an interesting and i felt that just had to be recorded and no one had recorded it i think there is a actually a history professor from north carolina state who may be working on the route to but i had known sources and i decided to get

it on paper before all these people who were involved in a drought well many of them have died as the years have passed some of them works in an advanced age at the time and i'm sure i'm going to look at what what utah utah food little bit about this but the division roll up with this in the background could lead the discussion that'll know i work on the square as a soldier in the time i was twelve so i was about sixteen yes i worked across we one block from where the riot occurred the topic never came up but also was fascinating to me and one of the stimuli to make me do that book because i couldn't understand why they don't talk about it i have a feeling they were sweeping of it under the rug at and still not sure i'm sure though that two or three generations since

motown know even less about than i did i felt it needed to know about the new term next line hello i wish i knew the one version i got was from one of my sources a nice man named herbert johnson and columbia there was a small creek that ran through the middle of the block behind the states the state street ran india's columbia the klan that back when climate was more rule that makes actually live actor and slid into the creek and i found out subsequently that there is a war was a mixed live in murfreesboro tennessee and also as a black business area of the town and i have to wonder if that perhaps is a general designation for black business areas around the south have no proof of that all know to reject a story about the

mix ed also love before you get into a home story of the area and the conflict that day in and over and over and over a radio repair controversy when you give us another history of meagher county and colombia to sell you a sense of well what the backdrop was a social setting leading up to this talk just a bit about about that because things maybe it'll help us understand what the environment was when the crisis came from colombia and i enjoy going out there i don't allow this is going to be taken in colombia but what i tried to do as you said was to explain how colombia might've been a little bit different from some other tennessee towns laurie carry in general was a

little bit wealthier there and its contiguous counties before and after the civil war an issue its wealth was based on the agriculture so small way out to turn of the century began to be enhancement a phosphate industry that's not to say i was extremely worldly just relative to other militants are counted however the blacks in the pictures of that in that world they were definitely an an underclass they represent about twenty percent of the population but in general they were as most of the blacks in tennessee where there was a segregated time totally segregated time they were under educated the farmstead for instance were not wealthy farms were a caddie had a lynching history that i was not familiar with them to love again researching this book two young black men had been alleged as late as nineteen twenty nine and nineteen thirty three which is only a short term for them and five riot i knew nothing about their thirty three women thirteen years i knew

nothing about that and i'm confident that a lot of my peers knew nothing about them as a symbol for subsequent generations know nothing about i don't know them or you can integrate or ranching history another callas but it was close enough and secure enough and horrible enough that that did influence the black community in columbia they remembered the episodes are very well that was on our minds and have a lot to do with why this rocker eleven there is you mention that left the relative wealth and were counted as both was running gun isn't and i remember that that you talk about the transfer the trial for murray to launch county and citizens in the last word really a reason in judging the adjoining room taking that step transfer at the trial from colombia wants bert and say that the part of that may have related to that the antipathy that people in that county fell

because they thought larry kenney and live performance of a photo of a crust that's true of the large carriers climate than the more accountants column of blackberry county i'm not sure the mens us poison hazard of parlor nourishment or nutrition from bloggers belarus carey was poor the marek yeah but that's only a relative term the us striking feature winds carry that maybe a defense attorney shudder was in it was i considered more racism or you can literally get a change even youtube davidson county or williams and get a lot of which are more sophisticated they fail miserably and joiner been dropped into a county south of there which was considered quite raised that was county population of two point five percent they grow at that time and it was the consumer friendly place for blacks to be did know as talk about it on the students and very ill this was already know that she was very

proud of she took it to the repair shop on the square to get it fixed she had a soul out from under her because she didn't pick it up when thirty days in time she created a stir the white lady she was working for what about four and they got it back she went to pick it up and family not been repaired adequately didn't work properly she actually sent her son jimmy or june passed a reason to pick it up on a saturday they went back on monday to complain about that that repairs and that's when the problem began she expressed herself or some anger in the store the plaza what sort of waves of just tell really loud are reasonable she was a one of the white church there must've been with women took on roger pearce followed the stevenson's out of the store and started a fight with her son german nihilists argument goes to music he first now the initial report whole equation and in games to buy it stephenson a withdrawn young man there was a

problem at one of the cruise among voters of us than them and detroit in two years you did of course you did and i had lots of phone conversations with him i'm going to go to jordan taking a book a whole point of these days it's not all male and one in the book he comes across court as a cruel individual as a young man he remains to me at least the crew individual on the telephone seems very laid back objectives and responded predictably to all my pressure to try to verify a certain point phrases he insists that the spark hit him in the back of a hint first johnny lied about his age and willie fleming yes crickets are a jet james had lied about is a junior sixty in order to get into the navy are in it forty six and nineteen have been discharged his older brother had been in the navy and no no not know his father his life has fallen in the army and in the army and a great deal was made of the fact that the flaming war is fatima more severe in the service but the fact is that the older male cindy

stevenson center also served on the service there's a photograph in the book of the james stevenson was his fellow zimmerman militarily boxing team iran's an economy looks like an area today karen self willie fleming him an immaculate in that you got in over his head i think one mustn't have the same reaction to the picture to me looks like a young boy dancer dane does very attractive very attractive young guy and willie fleming had no idea that he was a lot of himself into a tornado well the next step is what happens then when jen pie first willie he'd walk into a plate glass window there on the square the kinds of daily there was a lot of blood everyone saw him surge to interview wasn't

local whites jumped all over and james stevenson and his mother those people on the square and a couple policemen as well they automatically assign guilt they as a matter fact the police chief thought that there'd been a fight between james and his mother didn't investigate the matter they assign guilt and arrested him not not unlike what happened at that time and not unlike what song after americans say happens today just on the basis of race and wesson and suspicion us pows they didn't ask any questions from the art quickly their love their charge was elevated from public storage to attempted murder and that's when things got really complicated really complicated and leather stevenson very much concerned baum about her morning are young man sought help from the binders has

been wrong and it was a very there was a lot of what you say about that blackened it is true they did not share the well there were people like where's juices of innocence all they have relatively low significant wealth look up the property records you find that julius on the good deal of several plots on the state street which was which was me slide the blight business area he had won a barbershop the head of confectionery store they'll know the kinds of property he attended his business over the years in and set aside so he was relatively well to do man as a businessman he was looked upon as a black leader there were no elected black leaders additionally over the years you've been generous enough to bail out a lot of this blackened patriots when they got in jail for mischief or for worse then once the stevenson's are out of jail tension would need to be

instability and they've been going all there they were bail out of jail in the affluent blacks began accommodating on the states treatments live there's no doubt that some are more armed white square which is about a block away they were milling about and they had more freedom if you can visualize of the black tern somewhat of a defensive position in the book and the whites were on an audience of one and that they circulated around the state street there was some conflicting testimony later <unk> on the whites were but there is no doubt that they were armed you know i grew up as a young journalist a couple of years after one arrives limbo more lives than i went drove one of the two penn state prison when i was younger poorer many of the people whose names are in that vote could jump off the pages of the busy alexander looby was our most distinguished black tennessean in my youth or other got a thurgood marshall now

the late supreme court justice so came down with walter white to boast of people have made our history even before the so much rights movement started they were in an unvarying themselves in the cultural history of that of that movement on jersey winter mud covered trials in his court paul marvelous icon new one for the induction for a book you have come i feel so close to this book and you've tricked me and gave me a glimpse of history that i didn't know about it seems to me that new write the book with an eighth of fairness and remarkable objectively that slight aroma how it will do that how we're able to take yourself outside any sense of a partisanship that i know i know i

know having read it and having the sense of where you are let that you understood the challenge to be objective that was easy for you do i've always been considered an amateur historian says never in the book i suppose it's gonna have to be at least call an allocation of another vocation of us but as i said earlier how love columbia i love the people one of the points is made somewhat subtly actors him in the book is that people go on down there there were lynchings there's no question that the blacks were lower caste this was a segregated time though and i felt when i was growing up and i'm feeling stronger now the ultimate harmony in between races that will occur in a situation where we know each other better and i still fail in the south we knew each other better and though which are the better i had no philosophical ax is to grind i literally wanted to find out what had happened and one of the disclaimers i made in the book is that

i'm not a social scientist and therefore should not these presumptions enough to over interpret this material if i can record it thoroughly then perhaps some other social scientists would do that for me i have some great sources <unk> is still allow us is in his late nineties he provided me with the vehicle was prosecuted he was the district attorney provided me with the transcript of the major trial down of the wars were trial and there were some other materials available through the freedom of information act which are perhaps more there a decade ago just excellent source is it was easy to do and pleasure let's go back to that confrontation to the outbreak of violence well there isn't really a debate over the years as to fall and the violence in when most people say that the right again and forty the night went for dr claire policeman walked into a very

dark east a straight there were a home was a black bear who are armed so mom or in the beer and they've created they didn't know that whether these were policemen are part of them are coming down shots rang out through the policemen were hit one somewhat badly although no one spending time in the hospital and that point for the ride is considered to be underway but also from that point for local officials have lost control blacks say that the real route occur the next morning when the highway patrol invaded mixed live the highway patrol violated pay an agreement that had been made with the state guard to cautiously going at seven am that when i entered sixteen six fifteen and without notifying the state guard and response to a couple of shotgun blast from deep inside a barbershop they destroyed the street and destroyed all the businesses all the equipment in the businesses and to create a lot of or mischievous for destruction now as i wrote it before alter the nevada down the street there and shots

ring out to illuminate a new year's hospitalized but my sense was that lin manuel came in next day and vote for how a drone went down there and it was inevitable given their fry mind that those that of a serious trouble and it was serious trouble i think one of the individuals who comes across as having a lot of good since and the whole situation with general dickinson who is head of the tennessee state guard which the reforms that the national guard out a peculiar situation that was around only five years during war to a general dickinson the field he did not have enough troops available earlier in the morning so he could guarantee the safety of a mob coming out of mixed live for instance boehme are violated the agreement that he had made with the consumer and the county sheriff and took matters into his own hands and that's what leads me to say is that they went in there with an

attitude that was inevitably going to lead to violence and who are going to learn to ride now we have taken three pictures of the cover of the book which sort of tell the story in their own way and you might just looked at them and described in each case that's a picture over how a patrol and risking papa bell a fine balance founded then our one of the active young black men around the situation here driven school bus the afternoon of the route his regular job when you're trying to persuade some of the children to have their parents are brothers come back to town and i would grunt uses really got himself into a lot of trouble because of that there's a picture mr john blackwell this is one of the two three most famous pictures ever it was run in esquire in and time magazine so presto how i feel they were this event and not create a lot of anger and we're turning that footage the foot of a coven of allowing patrol one is debatable whether he's kicking him are turning in more disarray there you

just saw the fellows who have been arrested that day the flow and the real like coat right named gordon william gordon he was one of the two men who were socially shot in the jury on them are going to actually for our viewers what then happens in terms of quoting justice a lot of the same things the first was a federal grand jury hearing in the spring of that year was brought because served as attorney general clark atlanta pressure long talking washington while a person running from eleanor roosevelt a lot of northern unions and intimate ways to be called a grand jury which was supposed to look into violations of civil rights of blacks during the ride the grand jury was diverted to other things and they ruled that there had been no violations of civil rights the bigger trial to poison last word in late summer in which twenty five white men are accused of attempted murder earlier said that was permissible be a racist community this redneck jury acquitted twenty three of the twenty five

men and the other two were found guilty never went to trial again the last straw was the shortest time occurred in november at columbia in which they tried to fellow student shot of how the trauma the most distinct feature that trials of thurgood marshall because that very actively and local all along officials tried to kidnap him after the trial was over and things famous for a movie was oblivious to tell us that story and occasionally a recovering the courts he would talk about the marshall in walter white and they and the kidnappings and there's a fascinating fascinating story ultimately what was the result of that of all of those legal machinations you know in an interval of twenty three outright acquittal one fellow serve memoirs of his

term or shortened i think his name was papa lord he had been one of the year to ensure the highway patrol when he paid the price for not behaving himself on the stand and columbia and mr rentschler mr levy well served at this that was that was why he was convicted in colombia they sell them colombia probably was no more races than any other middle tennessee town it was no more so afterwards blacks felt that they could over hansel higher likud and restores little easier they were somewhat proud of what happened in chile says that that within this ground they're worried the only after american men who had fought and more to the games surgeon bryan stevenson will loathe and they came back the blues ending

the races the attitudes association that kept them down in a country where they have done their due to risk their lives in an author freedom fascinating to me that that same thing was going on all over the country remarkable out there were a lot more minor controversy is over such miniscule disputes with a radio repair bill that spark draw it it seemed to me that and it was such a it was such a minor incident that there's a social explosion waiting to happen many people you know stationed dissipated that there would be trouble with black veterans just as there had been trouble with black veterans after war won they were sophisticated that intro they will do things that they couldn't do in their hometown there were

economic optimism that they saw in other parts of the world jim past and his life in detroit they were jumpy and resented their previous status so these servicemen particularly silly and ceo's took on leadership roles the night if they were twenty fifth in the early morning to twenty six down a slide it was not so an organized response to white oppression as was sometimes a looted and subsequent trials in articles there was no master plan engineer guy or the lawyers or anyone else a village you say it was no less atlanta was a sale this of protecting stephenson from a religion don't think they feared lynching rumor played a large part in the situation these people remember gordy cheek and none are hillary choked the young black man who had been leveled against within a decade or two of this riot and during the day has a larger gathering there were repeated rumors of rogue for being bought from a hardware store

on the square the blacks took it very seriously it it goes ahead as much and as much knowledge to remove the gnomes to your book that i did the rich content of the body of the book one of the things you did was straighten out solo record on rumors talk about that move that there were lots of crazy rumors one of the rumors was that they're in the forty eight hours after the iran is that girls are being shipped in and caskets to the james morton funeral on all blacks rarely said that was it baloney but the most amazing source of that was one of the policeman who walk down makes lived at my name bernard skillful still alive and he was a very willing are a source and i'm quoting the blacks a single interaction when our show that was blown he said that this town was being watched very closely nothing was going in and out that they didn't know about additional are

only six caskets and how much could they smuggle him and i'd always heard that the kidnapped your own money on martial in the room or when but it was not it is absolutely true that he tried to get attorney general clark to look at that also after the route many people take credit for saving his life so in the blacks who despairing arrive take some of the credit but virginia weaver who oversaw the water the widow of one of the one defense lawyer says that he was probably say because of current newsman stuck with his car when the lawn and took him away after the arrest and they were afraid