A Word on Words; 2222; Richard Scweid, Cut 1 & Porter Bibb, Cut 2

i'm in a word and words a program delving into the world of books and there others this weekend richard schneider talks about barcelona hughes transvestites and olympic seething euros forward on words mr john sigg in voller chairman of the freedom forum's first amendment center at vanderbilt university hello i'm john c hall welcome once again the world works this week i guess an old friend richard swat welcome to world words good headed back you always write books that surprised me with titles that spot at barcelona's of like a garden a guide book but you know barcelona jews transvestites an olympic season that is richard an unusual title even for you even for fun of the guidebook that's what was a guidebook in the sense that it failed to not only where you might

wanna go in spain the los altos you have a few places where you sure don't wanna know that's true and there was not a guidebook don't think anybody going could take it and who might help them and your boss along which is sort of the such a unique statement to prepare people for people and while you were there during a year that was pretty exciting it was iran of the olympics it was early year old leah expo ninety two worlds where it was the year the anniversary firing years earlier or jews have been ordered to either join the catholic church or get our country and so there were a number of reasons why it was a important some ways exhilarating

and in some ways i think frustrated experientially right now they're not going to get a fair assessment but overall was a british baronet walk and really when i set out to do to like a good year to see if i couldn't go over there and come up with some sort of portrait of what life is like there are these days and did people hear an interesting readable look at how people in barcelona is sort of handling the same problems and pressures of the late twentieth century as folks at the handle over here you know when you get hot peppers that look surprised me i thought one world and buy one look at the new iberia louisiana and figure out hot source of conflict the book was so much more than that and he was really a social commentary on a culture and in a very lifestyle and it told me more about people than it did about

an industry which is the reasonable cuts or three reviews so i think and dug and this book go just a coworker of barcelona and ignore subtitle totally misleading to you what one of the things that you do hear is analyze both the history of the head into the explosion that use end the presidents of jews in spain they say something rather their lives and their lifestyle the franco era it late thirties and twenty five thirty three new war that period a lot of jews were coming back into spying living and by making that this dictator this men who in many ways would fall of the ruling had a degree of tolerance

well jews very unusual it's a very characteristic and threw it in fact while because of spain spain has you know stayed neutral during the second world war despite a lot of pressure from predicted germany the germans had come to help fight go in the civil war they a german mediators warned spain bombing spanish cities where but hitler could never get fined go to allow the german troops to say spain or to side with the axis so there were neutral country and as such people say that the quran burning more for the jerusalem jewish refugees in europe but given the fact that there were very very sympathetic toward the fascist cause it's freckled self wasn't about precious little lot and the different embassies around europe and places like harrison budapest in rumania save the lives of many many jews and put them under it goes back a little bit because in the late twenties the nineteen twenty four primo de rivera preceded the republican government and

franco said that anyone who came from a family who had been expelled from spain four to manage your earlier in a jew could claim spanish citizenship and that meant that the embassies were a position when the second world war broke out to tell the nazis these people or spanish citizens under the protection of our embassy and you cannot round them up and send them off and in so doing well a lot of jews were unable to leave the cities didn't get to spain the consulates in various european cities did a pretty good job of protecting the jewish population and implicitly spanish yet you point out that that the jewish community in spying as it was rebuilding in the twenties and thirties when the time came for of the great struggle and a republic was caught up in civil war frankel became the dominant fascist figured that and that they would jews on both sides

of that fight and that means that some of them helped finance the franco buttons that human who he was katie began to explain this unusual towers in the face of major pressure to try to write i know freedom for a minute it's a bone with a spanish journalist a bone of contention that franco's family has yet to allow newspapers to go build a ruse by scholars or by the press so as far as they're coming up with the motives for reckless behavior its difficulties in the book we just all knowledge and we don't know why they have been sort of hedging his bets and this way after the war was over he was able to at least say our duty not persecute jews but it in fact save the lives of managers they live other side of that and any and you get into it the book is wonderful because there threads that weave in and out of the alley and a dominant

influence roman catholic church in that country is there's another fascinating story you point out that it is a totally different culture there goes catholicism is in fact a state religion our country separate itself through separation church and state to avoid that sort of influence from protestants catholics or any other facebook but talk a little bit about that catholic that catholic comments goes it also facts quality of freedom for much less assault though now things are much more and there is a strong separation of church and state now but when franco won the civil war nineteen thirty nine he said that he had won oh god that it was god's cause that he was defending and he said to the church look i did take the government and you can have the

children and allow the church to legislate the morality of the country so that if you're unmarried and walking on the street with a woman your girlfriend even your fiance if you stop and kiss you had committed a misdemeanor and this is you know there's a a woman couldn't get a driver's license in spain without her husband citing permission to end all during franco's times always kind of social laws came from the church which like us to go ahead and does have free rein and they took it but when franco died in nineteen seventy five it was no time before the people spend it very clear to the church that while they still remains predominantly roman catholic church and state separated and both of them are going have to stay out of the bedroom and you know there's an arresting thing is that that the the period of the republic which i guess was nineteen thirty one to thirty six they're in that period before franco comes to power there was relative of freedom

there was a lot of backlash the republicans committed some terrible atrocities against priests are known to the cause they had been so expensive and so when the new film the church's position that when they had in the whole history in fact impossible possible and spring when there have been up rock popular uprisings churches found itself in jeopardy and it often in its clergy in danger because people are so resentful of the first people are going to go get somebody dragged him into the street and make a public example of them they'll often go after someone connected to the church and that happened but it's true the republicans did recognize equal rights for women equal rights for women the right of all religions to exist and to be practiced in spain and there were much more obviously were much more tolerant now you point out however that there was not much tolerance farm cycles in that society

through a variation which suddenly goes into a transvestite the issue you cant bombing and transvestites and spying a couple from italy of song live there man who decided but that will live as women some who were a male prostitutes posing as female prostitutes in this society they would buy many people most people vast number of majority of people would still have us have had the word sleeves associated with with the lifestyle you interviewed and found them to be lobel intelligent sometimes talley artistic personalities to talk a little bit about how you manage to cross of that cultural buyer

which even in spain they are beaten up then and leisure and taking advantage of a new pew point to a case in which dr assad invest it then martin you have this interview with with that with a friend well you know it's just it's as yourself everybody is going to tell the story through just to get a little respect in the time to listen to it and one reason that i want to listen to the stories of some of the transvestites was because one of the ways you know one of the themes of this book is to look at how we move public morality things acts censorship pornography all these things how they change when franco died after all those years of the church ruling everything censorship was extremely inspiring folks were kept out films were kept out behaviour was very regulated all the sudden franco's death the

church as tobacco what do people do and so i look to transvestites are kind of the most visible extreme sexual eccentricity if you will eccentricity from the point of your most of us finance middle america saul i want to see what their experiences had been made under fire going a number of the transvestites i've talked to world in october already been actor reading as transvestites during the franco years and then how things work for them now and i just kind of for me they were good marker of that sea change that's gone on the unquiet about changing values in spain in a mere seventeen years since franco seventeen years since he died seventy five since nineteen years one of them says something like this so talk about immediately he was a male sexual and he's i guess it's over says that

such was the rose a morally world uses something putin effect he is he was charging twenty dollars for sexual favors a system like the pope for two thousand pesetas they want a conversation sex and love and i suppose that that prostitutes who were lower of the same complex i'm well i'm there also was this great event called the olympics and you are a journalist accredited girl you were broadcasting now i'm on a radio station in english language show him you were in attendance a sommelier you also decided that for some other news one what we watch the opening night one of our story on our food writer entertainer was sad moments onto one sad moment one moment of great

controversy that you report on the first being the father of an olympic swimmer americans are dropping below that are attacked the church which was really the only tragic event in a sense and then the only wooden been noted here and in the states but they're when the king and queen of spain king juan carlos and queen sofia are greater royalty and did everyone sports came into the olympic stadium it before they played the spanish national anthem they played the national anthem of catalonia end tours banners outside a couple who had financed the lion's share of the olympics they were outraged and to cut the lawns and sidewalks along and cut the longer they works that night and this was the hard work and the olympics for a country want an occasion in well you know it might have been it might've been as if they played dixie into those saccharine

there were there was one other little incident that might add to that deserves mention here that the iranians would not march in the parade i'm the designated fiber that's right the city councilors were wessel oh the olympic committee at what's along the head designate a volunteer abbas along mr to carry the flag for each country and iranians have a woman and they said no we won't watch on a woman around in atlanta and in fact the next day when a journalist asked is spokesperson for the olympic committee isn't this going to allow them to compete isn't this just like racial discrimination that would allow a team to south africa couldn't compete for all those years and allowed iran and they said that gender discrimination is not under the same rubric is racial discrimination the deal out well but at the last minute they had to find a man to carry the flag for iranian it says something about this olympic organization which we've taken such close look more easily

wasn't meant to carry john harding conversely lend money and you tell a brief until this in the book is just chock full of interesting anecdotes and and you give us your view of the most exciting of all the limbic contestants one winner stood out in your mind but because of the training she had gone through there was a natural woman she won the five thousand meters which is a long long race and she showed up and they showed the same footage on television has shown on spanish television quite a bit before training in a small algerian village and she had to also usual she was a muslim she had to do is terrible genetic discrimination where she would run through villages on her daily training runs and the man would just scream obscenity out at your cat calls guy sitting at the table at cafe she would run by and of course she wasn't

failed while she was writing that she wasn't wearing boots are worn pair of shorts and her arms were covered and she was training training training training to win and she was ugly and algeria's only medalist and the summer olympics and had to endure a tremendous amount of the scorn from her fellow citizens to get to me it was a great great story and to win the gold medal for that the most ice overhaul of all races that is the one that most test endurance swimmer remember her to pull out all light only a humiliation shoot them sort of a rigid a decision not humiliated she took great pride in rio it's that sort of antidote i think richard that makes this book not just interesting lot of compelling the end of the year the line in the air that has been a tireless and you weren't aware that when the time come for a character for me at

that you know i didn't just downstream when they were sort of thinking or is this book really going to be about how the prom for me was always to putting the title song thinks other people looking at it i've gotta know what the book's about and hot peppers accomplish in the delta get a nation that held a bit the notable desert island book a novel a terrifically you know these are titles of what the book's about them doesn't really get the flavor the book of all i just want people to realize that this was not really a book about barcelona like a guidebook but more get an example of a portrait of warsaw and i came into my mind i think this book should be called what's orchards transvestites an olympics is for my publisher was i guess like it's not like this was this is does that person and what they would do one day we will or buys ice t and he said do you know the books great he'd seen earlier draft he said but the

tidal managed to grow and i say well you have to go as to go but let's talk about that switch and i convinced him an aleppo alvin isn't just another case a mutual moan thought maybe i should've that permits and roberto so i have to wonder because many people watch his program to learn about how writers write not just what they're not just about what they write this experience few words of everett when you were working part time for the associated press cage plays a euro working as a journalist on a live exposed her i was a stringer for the associated press that's a few moments very hard to do but i do indeed yes but then but then the book came into being you knew when you went to barcelona know we talk about your trip for you when you knew that the book would come out in i knew that would be a book and i had one in mind and then it just as of very much resemblance on a lot of sorry

claire but through the book i thought i would do prove to be undoable when i got there and good this book came along and instead of him very unhappy with the bow but it it was one of those books that really developed as i wrote it i wasn't quite sure for a long time what the book was going to hell was gonna work what would be about and how was going to get rid of power was going to organize an approach the material heard in the fourth book will way you do that is by creating so dark that's right and it's a chronological account of what happened not be a bad day for blood and a goat by anecdote and an aunt works extremely well and i'm sure the world gets girl you as saying that but but how did you i mean did you say i got it up and the subtext because it was also as well as been chronologically arranged emerge earlier for its subjects i wanted to write about her these problems that people are trying to resolve everywhere in the

first world immigration drugs crime gender issues environmental issues house in all of these things which is really the meat of this book saddam item into the into chapters more less like that and tried at the same time to put american flow into it and thats thats about whether there you know if you look at all the countries of your worth cultures in a mingling blood in some ways very distinctive the country picked to visit during and right about during this year happens to be the one in which i think the question for that period during the franco dictatorship was the most restrictive and the most repressive not only a political sentiment or other countries so we're in and out

of political oppression what oppressive in terms of a moderating the existence of human beings people were people who sought to express a song freedom will really repress it they were but they were as you said switching on the sidewalk was it was it was a misdemeanor and then i think you're right the explosion and lifestyle and end in divorce a lifestyle that came about since frye profile since he left and he got away from that also represents something unique about about a thing so let me add also one more thing which is the barcelona is one of the most beautiful cities that i've ever seen and i hope that that really permeates

that it was well in addition to all the alternatives a lot that i like a case of like the way people live and the things that they value and the beauty of the city the physical piece it is breathtaking so i don't know is it you do make that point quite well you know what's so make the point that you found the cost living that we're tracking cause the living as a little brittle but then again all over europe for its new york where no one cost of living was a loner just look at your you found a way to live quite cheaply learn about a month you found lolling but many years ago i even on that little island today off the coast of spain for little house with no running water no electricity and the cost of putting one hundred bucks and what it really it's sort of been back and its cost has gone up there too now when i asked about the uk about the writing regimen that you followed what was the same old son walter century i wrote every day of course was the first thing in a day after a cheap consciousness through cup of coffee and a croissant an hour

just basically said our work and but i was a little more nerve wracking because i wasn't sure what the final product would be and that their course after a while i saw that there was a book they are ended began to take shape the nineteen eighties were derided a first draft or ten straight through one do we i go straight through and they're a first draft of takes get a page a day and usually pretty happy sunday to get two pages and they see that half are paid for by the fifth track maybe i'm right maybe to be five draft you should be getting should be able to work well on for five pages so by the time you're into maybe thirty sixty nine days into it you're producing a large number of pages every day the stages of this book is about two hundred pages in length that means there's one heck of a job and colin farrell and editing once you decide to turn what you've written

into the fountain at the rubell well i brought this back to nashville with men worked a long time on it before i sent to my publisher and i had a terrific character who stayed on me and we work very very hard after the then the script was completed changing a tightening it revises the humming was your first rap album final qualifying minister over two hundred and seventy two or so about a third had to come out well listen for less than a leader not a lot weaker down considerably and then occasionally you what was painful to me was to see how much money towards change book i mean the colder approaches him back i'm optimistic and i said good lord i'm so sorry i didn't mean to citizenship a shoddy menace he said no oh contraire says are doing or put in like you know when the market up like this it's fine we just got some work at anderson that's going to it so that only then did you fight all that we didn't fight very often because i really respected what she had to say there are two or three instances when she said to me this is really got to come out when i asked an assistant tim

miller there was a lot more in there about drug policy in different european countries and a lot of research to see that each european country is approaching the problem of drugs and i include a lot of it and then she said this is no focus should be out of here this is so simple down and we went back and forth and then she said to me i'm asking you to take it out of africa the book what is the next book which is an area that can know what's coming next do for now i've got a couple ideas and i'm working on selling to somebody and i suppose the first one it gets older someone it's going to be about lines i do on paper and heavy cement and publisher i have significant reason is there a fight going on over that i notice some of whom have been sent back to me without enough it does that hurt your feelings when richard schneider author of

barcelona jews transvestites and an olympic season as that our guest on a word on words your host as ben and jon seaton dollar chairman of the freedom forum's first amendment center at vanderbilt university this program was produced in the studios of wbez in nashville