A Word on Words; 2727; Bill Kovach

building omg on say well once again welcome to word on words our guest bill cottage one of the nation's premier journalist welcome your own words very clear gap though cavett show you know guards show is a former news executive the new york times the forerunner to the atlanta constitution journal of oral color of fell a colleague of mine at the tennessee and use and years and years ago and now is the curator of the nieman foundation and beyond that has chaired the main concern journalist which has put out this book warp speed warp speed is the story of america in the age of mixed media you say it with tom rosenstiel your core so that there isn't a merger a merged culture within the media that there is now a mixed media

tabloid news has become mainstream news gossip news has become mainstream news networks have succumbed to the magnet of ratings that were being sucked away by cable news and that it all now part of the same fabric and the result is unreliable news news that is not as accountable as it once was and should be fair where i think that's exactly what we're trying to say john and as you know in a number of years you've been in the business of what's fundamentally change that isn't a combination of economic pressures the new technology and the introduction of all these new delivery systems including the internet cable television it's as though journalism were taken and thrown into an oscar as are going there with all of these other forms of information dissemination stirred up so that there is a real danger that journalism is going to

be lost in this new mixture of the mediums where they all come out in the end with the same information whether verified or not and the journalist record in that world it's created what we say in here that the fundamental statement were making him here is that the journalism of verification where reporters tried authentic at information is being replaced by a journalism of assertion where it's a competition simply of ideas and prejudice union of clearly on by a drawing of a very loose analogy clinton a star cable television the next media culture and they say let's go back nora look at the landscape

there were tapes of the man mr mccain and marlon king was taped not by can stop the budget and over and jan brewer any of it i tried every way in the world to get the medium that day to run stories about marilyn for donnell part of one of the king and based on these types of they say based on today's news medium this mix culture matt drudge who had a problem the first place who would bomb and it would've been on the air all the airwaves and we women locked into a blockbuster story for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks trying to prove that a nonprofit not a paraphrase somewhere but it does seem to me that that that's that that little anecdotes and that little comparison makes the point pretty well which leaves the question of course

should the public have known about game which leads to the question of and i asked them both should the public have know as much as it got i mean i don't our new law don't throw out about clinton lewinsky while and i think they and the anger about martin luther king was instructive for the purpose of showing how this has affected the media because the question is always so warm so we got a mixed baby what difference with my and i think this is exactly the difference it makes the judgment made by the journalists at that time the gatekeepers as we as we describe journalist in those days was that this information had nothing to do with martin luther king's ability to lead a movement a moral movement against of the laws that hail of a whole group of our citizens in the virtual slavery that that fact had nothing to do that and was an irrelevant story if those areas the justice department or the

fbi wanted to put this story out on their own they were welcomed the journalists on the presidency that is their function is you fast forward two bill clinton and the monica lewinsky affair a personal judgment that you can make an argument that the public had a right to know about his inability to control his sexual appetites i don't have a fundamental argument that i do have an argument with how journalist and journalism allow themselves to become part of a grand jury process rather than a reporting process that was aimed for an outcome i mean journalism always gets in trouble except on the editorial page from the front pages of the newspaper in the news comes in the newspaper journalism always gets in trouble when he tries to pursue an outcome and it's reported reporting this design and produce a specific outcome and i think in the case of the clinton lewinsky affair that dredge set the standard for

what acceptable journalism set the standard for what principles lay behind the journalism of the story too at the outset was saying eighty percent accurate guaranteed which meant when someone here in the us oh wren you can't believe anything like what he said that day to take him the truth of the matter is iraq and that's the standard that it began to determine what the song was silly examples you used to make a case for and this merging media you point out sit side by side with a dose of our new york times columnist on the press end of that and while that merges going on ted koppel is talking about oral sex in ways he never dreamed about probably

much less creamy would talk about while cbs and fox show or each other opposition's fear can start as people say the same thing about our sex that couple is saying on abc and that russert is drawing out of drudge and sapphire on nbc and that when you add to that at the growing influence of the twenty four hour news cycle we're cnn msnbc fox moving around the surface cycle with that lots of newspaper and that needs to be fed not just every hour but every minute that it leads to a subversion of accountable and wobbling it's the standard that the standard that's going to nominate is the lowest standard because the low standard means output anything out and you have to react to the year now turns out

to be the public because what's happening without a leg a key reason of ego what's happening now is that the twenty four hour news cycle means that that assertion than facts go out constantly is never a complete story the public is never get in a coherent story that just get a bunch of facts one on top of the other verified and verified there's no gatekeeper there to say here's information you can trust the information is pumped out that drug is information both of ours information that couples information all mixed up for the senate of forever billion and it's up to you as the consumer to try to figure out what it's all about what's right what's wrong what's true the spot you don't have the resources to do that when you have the time to go out and check the assertion you really do the raid are huge new and often i give you just one is thirty to take them to merge the

merge larger concept of beyond where we are to that whole idea of in order to in order to feed the news cycle with more drama we now elevate journalists as leverage or are you mention michael isikoff from newsweek on nbc a lesson the same with howard fineman like meat media critic in print an update and a commentator on the scandal whenever he is on you that you have an excerpt in there where george stephanopoulos man and bill kristol it was an awesome are talking about newsweek's decision to kill the first break of the story in newsweek bae is a cop is a cop

has the story is suggesting got it from louisiana where the tapes of their lives in terms there the news was their newsweek's ready to go and then they don't know and the next morning sunday morning on on sam donaldson cokie roberts roberts abc program we tell stories of the babe babe they mentioned this story that took out there in about something about president and that newsweek president then but melson said an internet editor an editor at newsweek is not running that insight keel good said kael what they said that newsweek is not running an george know george stephanopoulos with george that goes in one end and other novels and gristle and is little debate about it right whether or not it's newsweek is the roof is right but withholding information how can we begin to broadcast it if we don't know it is all about race the fundamental question that was not raised that easy by discussing the

killing of the story are the holding of us to try to articulate did not kill the fire alive by discussing the holding of the story and the fact that of being with l r the unsubstantiated that they know nothing about they know nothing about are not verified any the house and says well we are is again talk about that but we have not talked about it and is now in the most fascinating thing about the new culture the mix cultures it is now a new story gossip is known historians like you at all that the checkout facts is precisely what it is is gossip it's an assertion we've replaced in this case and this is the danger we've replaced the assertion of fact a piece of information about what really exists with information that says i think this is that i believe this is happening i don't know what i think and you can't run a democratic system on that basis you can the public can't be fed twenty four hours a day information about what i believed

what my assertion of what i think might have happened and it's the conjecture and there's speculation that taken over the city there's another as another example of that somewhere and just very quickly vonnie you have matt lauer on the today show and matt lauer is matt lauer is conducting this interview and lauer raises the question of a confidential of a confidential source man and his whole hour and he's now interviewing he he's not interviewing michael isikoff of newsweek newsweek nbc michael is a lot like your reaction to something that drives said about a possible dna trail it's gotten a lot of things i've heard about is no things and heard

that though dawson i have not reported that and i'm not gonna report that reliable have evidence that is in fact true art you're not telling me well you never heard it again just got a cousin has not been reported oh don't talk about not reporting it therefore it is once more the mainstream and it's made it it's made more substantial love the fact that my son michael isikoff was on the show talking to even if they didn't tell me they like alyssa katz is now went the prestige of his reporting ability to that conversation he couldn't have the same conversation with me that would mean anything you could have with you an avid mean anything but by having michael isikoff on the show he begins to suggest more than he knows and michael is kafka's i don't know i don't know that but by refusing to answer the question it leaves the audience to suspect that he really dead so there are dueling claims to be a prison accurate put something out on the on his

website a gentleman that word mainstream news organization it's about asks a commentator who has toyota documented and therefore has failed around and asks him about and matt lauer is just one example of that same thing happens on everyone's work on a real i'm going to say this book or speed this book is the pride of all other work earl may concern germans it's a little late for full disclosure but i happen to be a member of the committee of concerned jones and i'm very proud of this were you and tom rosenstiel and on because it seems to me for the first time are there is a document that puts it probably give the public not going to put their fingers on the pulse of what's really happening in terms with a change in the pace beat up of the national news media bug and voila malik women to say

when we should put the eight hundred number of now so that people can find out how to get this book of spry was produced by the birth of the century phone what is the blueprint for a century who was not a century fund and there is a hundred five five to five for bible one eight hundred five five to five four five oh and we believe and hope to be on sale in bookstores for too long but does involve hardback and paperback and the end so we learned i read is no head and enemy units on amazon dot com now let me yes it is now and they ask do you make you say there are five areas that are are serious problems out a part of this this new movement this new this new change from where the media has been through and where it's going

and we'll mention all fine but let's begin with one where we where we focus on didn't already know has do with sources they're the source is want what the new media with the twenty four hour news cycle has done is to convert reverse entirely the relationship that has existed between journalist in their sources the source's now control are now in control because for example a source can talk to a reporter about a hypothetical situation of possible dna trail that the source may or may not know for sure if the earth and can talk to reporter for say the national tennessean and say look i'm prepared to give you this story which you have to take it home i turned you can't identify me you can identify what i wear a work and no way he can you identify me and you have to write the story basically worked at here's the information there is as

possible trial i can't they were getting information and i want it published day after tomorrow and the reporter says i can take it on the basis of society i'll go over to cnbc there's like it i'll go to see any of that like it i'll go to msnbc they'll take it and sooner or later someone will take it so the reporters no longer have any opportunity to say i've got an obligation a moderator or my wife or their the people i interviewed not to you so that the the the new competitive atmosphere has given the source of who and many cases are out to manipulate the public understanding the situation is given them the power to determine what goes in the press they become the gatekeepers not a journalist not a public the sources become the gatekeepers of information well isis aig years ago college will be back with his next week to talk about about a half dozen areas where the stories were sourced and you detail

the volley overall overarching theme in solo stories might have an actor ah the day today recording was basically fought and sometimes wrong man occasionally terribly romer well we began to settle five was first fall we talk a little bit about that the never ending news cycle briefly just you just talk about how that works why it's different then and the dynamic of losing ratings if you're the network and trying to compete with the cable news cycle rather than mac is that that if it's news is on all day twenty four hours a day everybody's competing all day all the first to get a piece of information out may draw away from your orgy and so everybody scrambling and their match and what everyone else better just it drives the process

no time for verification no time for for fact checking but worse than that we've created all these new channels of information we have fox news we have cnbc we have msnbc we have we have c span we have all these new channels of oppression plus the internet almost no new reporters have been in addition to the system by these organizations they have they have anchors they have commentators the other hand for reporters in washington but no more so all these new systems are playing with the same basic goal of information they're not reporting they're talking about the news that are creating is about finding is they're commenting on the news and that can of competition driving all day long leads to assertion speculation opinion more than fact so that the system is being driven by a whole new world of information that has nothing to do with informing the public and given that backdrop

superimposed the new rule are the no room on sources are the room in which the source not governed and what goes in there and that one of our news cycle now as often as not may not be well sourced and they will be inaccurate well as the study shows in the fore and the thing the committee found by monitoring the first week's coverage of the clinton lewinsky affair all the major outlets for press newspapers magazines and television and that first week forty three percent of every assertion broadcast and published with speculation opinion and conjecture eight percent was repeating information published by another organization which the publishing organization and not verified so over fifty percent of all information that first week was not fact not the fact the whole

first week of the biggest political story in this decade maybe this half century was not fact that's what the new system was created then superimpose on that the broncos on the twenty four hour news cycle an inaccuracy of anonymous sourcing superimpose on that the new movement toward argumentation and there we are when there were talking about people who have no idea what the facts are and don't particularly care what the facts are because what they wanted to talk about what they think the facts are or might be or where the facts that are after haiti so it's a it's a discussion among people whose fundamental interest is not in fact but in asserting an opinion which is fine and the debating situation we can use a lot of that argumentation

but we can't have it pushed facts out the window which is basically what happened and if you watched these shows and most are on cable coverage because these are organizations that have decided committed to twenty four hours news and they have not built a staff to produce new so what you do you bring about a talking heads and say what you think about what you just heard about on that other show that no fact in hearing it where it's well here's what i think it's a chance to blow va can make a lot of statements and comments to inflame opinion to titillate opinion to excite opinion but not to inform and then superimpose on those three factors the additional assertion but humans do which i wholeheartedly embraced no gatekeepers anymore i am when i say that i really say there's no way to say know any more are there is no money you willing to

say it has gossip on the truman not known for among those records as gossip in the newspaper i'm not going to talk about the role the day he'd go the gate keeping really begins before the editor the news director when i was a reporter and when you were four and when i was an editor and when you're not under the gatekeeper while the gatekeepers the first gatekeeper was a reformatory for the track i mean that the whole the whole concept of gate keeping was not as sometimes argued now censorship and withholding information for the public it's like i'm a judgment about what can of information is useful but they're gonna find anything they wanna find that but the reporters obligation we thought the editors obligation we thought was to help provide information factual information information you could verify in a context which of the consumer of the information the reader or the viewer

could use in order to exercise their right to say it is not in order to amass and accordions to be entertained that was not our role that's the role of the entertainment media journalism is not entertainment it can be entertaining but that's not its lunch and finally the blockbuster phenomenal one left a phenomenon is an extension of the same thing because of the fragmented audience in this is essentially television although the print journalist fall into the habit of mimicking television does i think have to compete by mimicking but what the blockbuster phenomenon is an effort by the continually fragmented audience that drawing down the viewership of the major networks or the cable networks that are competing with each other and they're constantly searching for any can of the story that will bring together a large audience across different interests and those large audience stories are always emotional stories they're always the oj

simpson mayan ruins the gunman may have been iran see colorado littleton story whatever they are you focus all of your attention all of your time on this one story and neglect the rest of the world simply to draw larger audience to your report not not to help the community not that helped the citizen but for your purpose is not theirs that's traversed the role of a journalist and made it i'm bringing year for my purposes not providing this report you and tom rosenstiel basis on year long study that committee can tear concerned journalists did next week we'll talk some more about that or drop to about how it was that you were no

no