A Word on Words; 3506; Carl L. Kell

fb liz from nashville studio way celebrating offers literature ideas for more than three decades this is word on words reasons how on guns in the home and once again welcome to word on words my guest today is called tell you the author of exile voices of the southern baptist convention old war and i guess a total there's no question about the idea that

began in the south but there was a civil war as my father long reminded me there was nothing cynical about it now and there's been nothing subtle about this particular war or eleven in the evening people and i orient you know have the slightest idea what the title exiled means are what the holy war is about and i must say a whole culture exists in the cells and as i read the book i realize what happened is really revolutionary about the church's changed substantial direction i know you like to end your friends right from thirty one in all exiles from what has been the southern baptist convention write about their experiences and some of them overlap some of them have different experiences but i am but what's at the heart of what's at the heart of this

of this revolution because it it strikes me as i read a book that la judicial work of two men in texas who simply had the power to bring the girl at the larger churches and the nomination and changes direction for a more fundamentalist bent there are a number of ngos and the questions that you are for the longest time in the history of the southern baptist convention at forty five down to now has been the standard joke he had two bad news discussing an issue you know three opinions on diversity in the modern sense is also banned indian classical historical sense a part of southern baptist life critical to the issue so who is certain that these are the ideas of local church authority how the sense that they as a local congregation can't decide to do what

they want to do in the process of understanding that this convention not so much often called the nomination has sixteen point three million members and two thousand six and forty three thousand two hundred churches and two thousand six sixty one percent was a member of this church a hundred and twenty five members are fewer become there are two issues there is the guard called preacher who may or may not need to much in the way of education and there is the educational developed preacher college seminary where they live in the same world from the small county church to the downtown church both however had a diversity focused on out one idea the bible is the word of god literally so

few of the bad this van are now would bust birdwatcher that idea that it came to the point where he issues were strongly focused on the idea that not only was an infallible trustworthy in every sport that every job until of the line and the word in the paragraph the solo script or were intended them and understood now to be god's word what my friend said perhaps what we're looking at here unfortunately with all due respect in this day is a holy quartet the bible becomes a fourth member and praiseworthy in of itself if you look at today's conservative slash fundamentalist and today's conservative moderate those on the inside those only outside the two ideas that dominate the discussion evangelism

dominates the current southern baptist convention discussion and missions dominates the alternate organizations and enterprises of southern baptist life when evangelism is threatened in the bible was held up to be maybe just maybe a little less than perfect that all manner of folks can get together have hard and harsh discussions beginning some would say back in the early sixties with a raft really a controversy over genesis and whether or not this was real or imaginary allegorical and then later in the sixties the broad and commentaries that all work probably smart woman first and then eventually got the idea the guard called citizen pasture and the educated pasture and hulu they represent came down to those two ideas of evangelism ambitions now in this day and time we

understand that they're on the same court that that court has been placed on a railroad track of try and read over and so the scene that is hard to distinguish but there's just enough deference to take people to the battleground to fight over those ideas alone i think about when i think about we're average year thirty one different people and lives were turned virtually upside down the religious doctrine of that down and for most of them they're really into the religious lives was their life and someone a someone pastors was somewhat we're in the pulpit and some wanted in in in the seminary but in every case thirty one eggs they consider themselves exiles their lives have been turned upside down and i tried as i opened the book to figure out what is it really about i know the big split the secular press on most of it and i know that

that israel is deep and iranian election and james johnson statement that baptists traditionally are otherwise minded folk and he quotes typical baptists say and nobody is going to tell me what to believe but jesus as a man and then suddenly i'm saying to myself bumping it is the galvanizing of opinion about what we may or may not believe may or may not preach may or may not teach is that is as as as everything that the exiles feel about it their tradition been turned upside down it has a bizarre suggesting the previous response it comes down to evangelism emissions it comes down to the idea the southern baptist have the longest time allow historical critical methods in the college's a university courses in seminary courses to begin

in their own fashion and their own way to question and to examine a current ways the nature scripture now to a strong conservative whether they're in a downtown church or comedy church and gemma north carolina going to the bottom up you still do this you just don't question any job or total in scripture those are fighting words and that's whether it's looked upon as the conservative take back or take over those are heels on which you go about what was happening what was happening and that called paul pressler and paige patterson to come together in nineteen seventy nine in brussels of judges our co career well what caused them to come together and decide that they were going to start this kigali revolution goes way to do this bressler the houston texans

county appellate judge had heard from the young man who went off to baylor university without taxes and perhaps other institutions they came back questioning what's in the morning and sunday school and this is by all accounts bothered and deeply bother paul pressler he begins to look ahead in and examine it more carefully what's going on in our colleges that we endorse and center money too that is somehow causing young men come out young women to come out loesser with three women he's in new orleans and he's been informed by networks of his friends that this john and here that you need to meet and this is late at night a given night drescher calls a young graduate student paige patterson and says to him i would come by and meet with you he comes by the go the cafe du monde gray from that is and they sat and they visit

understanding that what you look at the constitution so that the convention there's a way in which when you left a series of presidents if you could do it and they surprise or tenure plan both for all this discussion and more more discussions that within ten years that the president can then the committee on committees the internment trustees then turn do this in forty eight year cycles come sing about ten years we can turn this area around because the condition is allowing steady criticism the valuation it was all about stopping was happening in the church in a while would so we don't become the church downtown and that's a sixty percent a southern baptist nice a great deal of sense you're messing with something and clinical research that you're not to be messing with and that was enough to fight over and that's what our ability of the last twenty five years worked on that a lot of being turned

upside down i think of what some other voices say in the book in the end gregory ngoc says it's a lot like dying is worth one or a lot of light like talk about what the at ruining it said they went through a process are some of them dramatically others slowly but the water torture was insistent they went through a process as i describe and in the introduction there are in a retort experience of that being addicted yet they're victimized in many ways possible stories and i know that will never appear in a book this book would appear in the one i'm working on now that would just and touches girl my hair and there's this was vitriolic in the end didn't imagine nature once they realize what they were going through the exiles were grieving as a loss of life a loss of a family member that there was a loss of the dog or cat something terribly

important people they lost their church they grew up in this church they grew up southern baptist from junior choir or even prior to that up to adulthood and that was being people as one writer says strangers and my house i don't know these people who were the and in some cases they're the pulpit that made empty field bus are no strangers and the minute the exile thirty one of the folks here that that a broad representation the lead for sure just how that came about sixteen of those are produced it and many of them from the back of the church and many of them women many of them women and that's why i had carol crop originated on writing partners because this was not a male's dominance is going to write this was not of the clergy as you break your voice by this was really about the whole family and especially because as you may know the wgu

women's missionary union and artillery are not controlled by the serve that convention their own entity the court briefs to have their gender of services this last convention they tried to get in the derby i'm use a part of this and that convention cost social structure and i fail again so with those folks they agreed to they went through a period of being an expatriate almost wearing video ms denise of been this patron i do not belong to any country anymore either for scholars say oh my goodness i can discern that bad or so i'm a trade up to become a methodist or maybe gober that become a presbyterian the store isn't going to go up also had the sad stories of people calling in saying oh i know about your book and about your research i just

lost my place in the church and seventy five years ago and the bees or the message church i've got a whole new life to learn about going to church to re learn that a southern baptist anymore always be alive but i've got now learn about being a methodist then at the end of the day from grieving to its patriot of the metaphors i found in their words and things i began the study and understand this i could they found freedom have to war they found freedom and free to do things that were brand new to them regardless of their age i write earlier this book in the happy book you know it's not the choice of book that comes down to there something brand new going on here and it's really exciting and looking for saying what happens next tuning in and dropping ago tale about his book exiles voices of southern baptist convention or ago and i'm and what

you just said about people signing a different way ideas is ross says crews are talks about a separate these years which is a different experience being exiled and then saying it's a lot like dying but look at the gap that the proverbial end of the day these folks didn't drop out and become a couch potatoes and their religious and spiritual experiences they move their energies on their efforts journalist joe troll talks about being called in a horror story and theres an end and they say to him ever think of early retirement for flyers of the nsa and he's five years away from every even thinking about retiring and annie and you know we're going the early eye when i read that i wanted to it was a

flashback to that point in the book when you talk about three professors who during the depression would know when it closed down this summer for sacred music as part of this the seminary and because we can't afford you don't wanna lose you but can't afford to they work for nelson and they did and save that plays james gunn tells a story because of the tag end of the story and sketches at least while you're there take care of pecan trees take care of laser go on i've lost everything else would not let the pecan trees or pecan tree ii why discovering in the process of doing this work and i began in nineteen eighty one my field communication and labeling what we do in this and in the south he studies southern history from a rhetorical perspective so what i do and label my

efforts as a rhetorical historian was realizing that the southern baptist convention was voided day long dramatic play this drama was one and many acts and last for a long time but it was going to be the show of the century and indeed it has been sher has an entity hadn't realized until until i read it so that very brief piece on mark lemmon in his wife is the roman catholic business that cutoff <unk> do them such a strange story and the market is wife came to this event like so many of the thirty one people in the book john i've met five of them an effect on that with this one this past tuesday evening at the robo signing the young woman rachel traverses on page twenty nine was here bringing her son the belmont university her mother father lived here we had never met that part's story and the says stories

the boston and other stories were bursting at the seams to be told i just got lucky and found out who they were you could go so so you're right so it's so email this person and offer another friend over thirty five months i withdrew three hundred plus people to distill down to thirty one and had not met them but because of the earlier book in the name of the father the rhetoric and news this convention first in a series of three answers three and i found that that cachet gave me some andre so i would have people write on monday half its eight celt book is worth doing is a good guy he's done this book you need to write for a fight one story from our church and bowling green kentucky first baptist church now and jolly would not right for me for your behalf because he still had friends working at the board they didn't want to impact

their retirement issues with his story now the book wasn't going to come out before allen putting that on a word processor and putting his name to it he could not do until everything was done ms ashton for a moment to drop for all causes it does seem to me with understand there is in his mind and in many of the mines in the exile there is a i mean that's a mean spiritedness about the determination to change the direction of the southern baptist convention and i would not have a steel or get a sense that there is a corporate strategic plan that dictates what people are going to do what they're going to say all within california too for jim willett is a many different things on those overlap there's some experiences a very similar yes

but but so many of them reacted to the word exile in different ways one of them talks about the hijacking of the sec tossed description or type description we're going they're described as disenfranchised how accurate is that the hijacking of the southern baptist convention let's understanding that those on the outside and the moderates so called traditional free and playful bad those who are in leadership positions from the end of world war two until the end of the seventies more denominational loyalist centrist in the corporate world they love the company and that is bill leonard says they were part of a grand compromise ok you with the war over this and we can more or that we're just not going to go along or heads over

let's just agree that we can disagree and get along but for such a long time the truth to veto the socal fundamentalist to conserve these were only buys boards i hear they were getting selected they would appear on the board of trustees of southern seminary and local so being on the outside and realizing that scripture was being critically evaluated the seminaries and those six seminaries they're absolutely on the big tip than a laser guided missile talking about why i didn't even talk to me about what changed and most americans seminary faculty faculty and health actually way we just booted out if they weren't part of the tressler patterson legacy mri that's correct and seminaries given to having people sign a test over the two thousand beds with the

message that they would swear to that as a credentialing of their teaching in the classroom now that's akin to back in the fifties when i was a college over the communist party's sort of test sosa college faculty were often asked said some cases aside which i experienced as i recall university of arkansas when that occurred and really focused vitriolic all the above less clearly understand this has been and remains a war i can give you a long litany of now the war essentially conducted in various states missouri's and five institutions from the summer a cabinet to missouri baptist college are now has suggested mediation next week by the missouri supreme court for one critical issue that is it sends a reworking continues corruption the state convention was control over naming

trustees we're situations are fearful that the trustees with conservative and come in and change the shape and focus your college a newspaper a new board in and go north carolina north carolina baptist newspaper gave up nine hundred plus thousand dollars just said keep the money in the bylaws and constitution they retain the right to name to the trustees if i had sort of thing happens all over so empowering to read the literature so that his convention regularly what i found a stark difference between now and the best you if i'm more stories that come out of that is press the official drillers in ads supporting his arm of the so bad condition touting his the successes and indeed there are successes <unk> life an early job turnover there we have learned about thirty minutes left talk about the

next book the next book is one that among the one hundred and fifty or one hundred and seventy five books on the subject that i know about there's not one like it from book to book in fact i've spent the last two days doing work on chapter three and four of the work and i know people throw around the word moderate like so much loose change question i'm raising of groceries were the minors come from who are they have their voice change and then to now the book is entirely gets away and the moderate voices southern baptist life my thesis is a chapter to that of their university in the us led revivals no lovelier neary end of world war two and the early fifties the young men of came to bowler began wednesday labeled now is a moderate southern baptist community their players became a dull man became martyrs for valentines one one employer syria so hearst who

is the issue grows and our pay was in that group charles welder who are just listen live a couple weeks ago was a georgetown kentucky and tending to an ill family member and on the list goes many young men in their twenties who were not even close to having a theology these days and time have a theology there the grand bargain graham there's an and grandmothers with a moderate traditional free and playful bad it's telling a story well we run out on cartel thank you to join us there was my pleasure and thank all of you for joining us and for watching word on words and johnson intolerant keep reading