A Word on Words; 3332; Dan Miller

Hello, I'm John Cingenthala. Once again, welcome to a word on words. Our guest is Dan Miller. The book is 48 days to the work you love. Welcome Dan to a word on words. Great to be here. Great to have you here to talk about work. Now, if I get the sense of this, what you're telling me is that a job is more than work. Absolutely. And a work is more than a job. And work is more than a job. That's, that's true. That's a good start. There are some words that we usually throw in the same pot and they really need to be distinguished. Those words are vocation, career, and job. We get to myopically focused on the job. And job is just what we do daily. Vocation is a little broader look at what we're doing. And that ought to include

concepts like a person's purpose, mission, destiny, calling, a little broader sense of why we're doing what we're doing. Career then is a subset of that. So if somebody wants to help reduce pain and suffering in the world, there are many careers that would in fact allow them to fulfill that. Job then is just a subset of careers. So if somebody wants to be a nurse, there are probably thousands of jobs as a nurse. But thus, it puts a different perspective on what the job is. Changing a job should never change somebody's vocation or calling. But we have to get away from looking myopically at the job we do daily as being the defining criteria of who we are, what our value and worth is. We've got to move away from that. And if we do so, it takes the pressure off jobs coming and going, which they will. But losing a job or quitting a job should not be devastating. It should not give somebody the sense that I've got

to go back and start over. We just look for a new applicant. You maintain that anybody can be happy in a job. And that nobody should permit themselves to be unhappy in their job. That fair. That's fair. If you work in at something and it does not give you satisfaction, maybe even pleasure, maybe even joy, then you're doing the wrong thing. It's a red flag. Unless it's very clearly part of a longer term process. Now if somebody is in graduate school and they go to work delivering pizzas or throw a newspapers in the morning, I don't expect that to be their dream job and for them to just love it. Let me ask you about you. You say you've been a farmer, that you sold automobiles, that you have run a vending business, a vending machine business, have been a psychologist, you've taught psychology, you've worked as a therapist. Certainly, or maybe I'm wrong, you couldn't

have been happy in all those jobs. You know, that's a great question, but strangers that may seem, I really have loved doing a lot of different things. But I always saw those as parts of a bigger picture. Again, not the total center of my life and the only thing that I was doing that was fulfilling. But I've enjoyed doing a lot of different things along the way. But I was always clear about where I was going. So if I have a five year plan, then it takes the pressure off what I'm doing, doing daily, as being the only thing of significance or importance. As I read this book, there is a sort of theme. There is a sort of spiritual theme that underlies everything you say about working at a job that is emotionally rewarding, satisfying. Talk about that spiritual theme that you sort of see as an underpinning of a

successful life. I really do. I really do. I think without that, it can give a much of a start stop kind of effect to the work that we do. And somebody can end up feeling like a ball in a pinball machine, or I did this, something happened and went there, where they're driven by circumstances. We all want to be defined by something that goes beyond ourselves. It's not just what I'm doing today or what my investment portfolio is. It's what am I doing that's going to leave a legacy? How am I going to be remembered? And people are looking for a purpose that goes beyond ourselves. So I do believe that everybody ought to have a sense of that. What is my purpose that goes beyond just my life here? How am I going to make a contribution? And more and more, I'm hearing people who are saying, who are asking, if you remember, the old Maslow's pyramid in psychology, where at the very bottom is safety and security, most people that we run into aren't concerned about having enough food to eat or

where they're going to sleep tonight. So they've moved up that pyramid to things like belonging, self-esteem, self-actualization. And they're asking questions, even at young ages, how is what I'm doing making a difference? And those are the kind of questions that require having a clear sense of what it is you're a part of that goes beyond your day-to-day existence. There are two graphics in the book that relate to each other. One of them saw the sort of an oval and there is in bold, black letters, the word work, surrounded by small-type personal development church recreation, community, and family. On the next page there's another oval, exactly the same size. As you say, a paradigm change that puts each of those in not necessarily an equal perspective, but in perspective. I didn't understand, I think, fully what

the thrust of the book was going to be until I saw those graphics and it sort of hit me. Here's a fellow who thinks that anybody who is a workaholic is out of sync with the way his life or her life should be. That right? It is sort of. I would have to admit most people looking at me would say I'm a workaholic. I love what I do and I invest a lot of hours doing what I do, but I'm at a season of my own life where I don't have as much pull for children. Our children are grown. My wife is supportive in understanding. I don't commit to a lot of other things socially. I don't play golf and a lot of other things. I enjoy my work. So just that alone is not enough criteria for that, but most people allow

work to be the only thing of value that they have in their life. There has to be there have to be more things where we're making deposits of success and those things are clearly some of those are physical well-being, our family, personal development, spiritual, social things. Those are equally important things where we ought to be getting a sense of fulfillment. So it doesn't have to come just from our work. Now a lot of people who are workaholigs really are addicted in the same way that we see other kind of addictions where it's a very unhealthy thing where they are making notepods a success beyond that and it is a very unhealthy thing. A little commitment to family, never recreate, no contact community of church, no sense of personal development, but if work is part of all that or if all of that plays a role in a life where work is important then career and and person are in sync. That's right. That's right. And if all of

those are functioning well, career can change easily as well. That's a major point. If work is all there is then the prospect of change is terrifying to people. Most of the people that I see personally are physicians, attorneys, dentists, CPAs, engineers, people who have invested a lot of time in a particular academic pursuit. They feel trapped in what they're doing. The prospect of changing is terrifying to them. You write about a dentist, makes $3,000 a year and is miserable. Depression has panic attacks and you suggest it's because he's doing what his parents want him to do, not what he really wanted to do. How many people are there like that in this world? I don't mean who are doing what their parents want to do, but I'm not really doing what

they themselves would love to be doing. There's millions of people who are doing that. When you look at how career choices are made early in life, we put a lot of pressure on 17, 18, 19 year olds to make that decision and a lot of times the decision that charts the course of their life is made with less thought than what they put into deciding where they're going to spend spring break. They decide on it. They just choose. They choose something and thus it charts the beginning course of their life. Those people, a lot of times, at 45, wake up and say, you know what, I'm not sure I'm on the right path and rightfully so. But I think that at any given point it's healthy to draw line in the sand, take a fresh look at who am I, where am I going and how am I going to get there. But the process by which people make those first choices are really not well thought out. That's why we know that 10 years after graduation, 80% of college graduates are working in something totally unrelated to their college degree. And that's okay. We ought to see, especially at the bachelor's level, education is a process of broadening

once horizons. It increases options, but it very seldom forces you into a rut from which there's no escape. So we have to see this as a continuing journey. It's not a matter of, I don't encourage people to just use a better process to make the best choice at 18 and never change it. I just encourage them to allow themselves the freedom to look at it at any given point on the journey of life. To take a fresh look and if they need to change jobs, no problem. If they need to change careers, we go back and look at vocation. What is the big picture? What is it you're trying to accomplish with your life? Can we change careers even if it's something like a dentist or a physician or an attorney? Absolutely. When you write at another point about a pastor who came to you for help, for advice, for therapy, I guess, he'd been fired. And I guess it was like the end of the world for him. What's to be said to someone who's caught in that trap? I mean,

it's more than 10 years now than he's out of that he's out of the seminary. More than 10 years, by far, since he's got, since he's earned that bachelor's degree and advanced degree. I mean, he's a minister of the gospel and the people he is ministering to have said to him, no more. We don't want you anymore. Just the crushing of the ego is one thing. But beyond that, it's, you know, this is what I was ordained by God to do. What do you say to him? Give him hope. Nobody's trapped. What you mentioned adds another intangible component that is really difficult for people to struggle with because if you've studied academically to be an engineer or a scientist or a physician or an attorney, that's one thing. But when you superimpose on that, the sense of being called by God, yes, that's

really, really challenging. People have the sense that it's an all-or-nothing thing. If I leave being a pastor, then I've somehow ignored God's call in my life. But see, it's not like that. I mean, this particular gentleman you referred to used a term that has haunted me ever since, sanctified ignorance. He just had this blind belief that if he was somehow pursuing God that whatever he did would somehow work out. Well, they're all kind of red flags. All kinds of red flags in his physical well-being, emotional well-being, not having the affirmation of other people. Those are red flags. I mean, what does God have to do? Knock him in the head. You're on a wrong track. But there are things you can move into. Even, and there are things you can do, even if somebody has a sense of being called to ministry. Being a pastor is just one particular application. I have a young, a gentleman I just talked to him a couple days ago, who I saw again came to me as a pastor, had this sense that if he was going to really do

something godly, being a pastor was at the top of the peak. Well, that in itself is not true, but that's what he thought, and it's a common belief. Went to seminary, got our day in his pastor for church, miserable time of his life. And I helped him start to look at, what are your natural skills and abilities? What are your personality tendencies? What are you drawn to? How do you relate to other people? What kind of environments you most comfortable in? And what are your recurring dreams? What are those passions? Things that we see keep popping up. Well, with him, it was doing artwork. Well, nobody had ever encouraged him to do anything with that other than just going to the closet and use it as a catharsis. But it really, as he described it, was what we see in athletes when we talk about them being in the zone. That's what it was for this young man. I had him quit everything that he was doing. For four years, he did faux finishes where he uses brushes, sponges, rags to create these dramatic effects on people's walls. That gave him the freedom to really do artwork. Today, he doesn't do faux finishes. All he does are incredible pieces of art. You see him in the finest

galleries all over the country. Famous people own it. He does nothing but music themes. I talked to him a few days ago. He said he just had a show where he sold two pieces for $10,000 a piece. He is making roughly 12 to 15 times the money he ever dreamed of making as a pastor. Now, we didn't go into that direction because the money, money is a byproduct of having an authentic fit of how God has really created that person anyway. And that's what we're seeing. But it also has exponentially increased his ability to minister in the way that he wanted to do it because it is an authentic fit rather than his attempt to try to do something that other people may see as a godly occupation. For those of you who just turned in, I'm talking with Dan Miller about his new book, 48 Days of the work you love. And there is no magic circle of 48 days. I mean, explain what 48 days usually eight days to rest. Biblically, God used a lot, 40 days to

dramatically change the direction of individuals, nations, countries. So being Americans, I throw in a few extra days, 48. Actually, I knew I could get some name recognition from 48 hours as a TV show. So I used it partly as a marketing tool. But it came from my frustration with seeing people who are very competent, intelligent people recognize they're not in a good place. And even after we create a plan of options, a month goes by, a year goes by, five years go by. And they're in the same place. I am so committed to helping people walk through a process. If you want different results, if you're not happy where you are, what are you going to do to change? And 48 days is ample time to take a fresh look at where am I? Get the advice and opinion of other people. Look at the options, create a plan of action and act. And thus, if a 48 day period passes, having gone through those steps, and a person is still doing the same

thing, then my compassionate encouragement is you're choosing to do the same thing. I'm moving on to somebody who wants to get different results. You know, for somebody who is worried about job, worried about work, worried about career, the book seeks to take you through virtually every step and help you confront obstacles that are going to get in your way. And it runs all the way from how to dress and how to perform during an interview to how to write a resume and a cover letter and a follow-up letter. It's all there. But one of the things that I found fascinating, that was also there, there are a couple of warnings. And there's one of them called multi-level baloney. Talk about multi-level baloney. A lot of times when people are looking for options, they are

vulnerable to ideas that other people are promoting. And one of those is multi-level marketing. Now, I believe in the business model of multi-level marketing. And I know people who have done extremely well. But I am frustrated. I'm concerned with their usual process of recruiting because they make it appear that anybody can do this. That's not true. That requires a particular kind of personal skills in order to be successful doing that. And few people have that. If they recruit those few people, that's fine. But don't tell the little gal working down a Burger King who's struggling that she needs to get involved in one of those businesses because it's not an appropriate fit. And drives me crazy. There's another warning a couple of pages later that sort of is to alert you to marketing schemes. You know, how the invention marketing con game works. It's pretty cruel and pretty devious and you can get burned. It

is. It takes advantage of people's vulnerability and their trust. But when people have an idea, everybody wants the next tool of hoop, the next frisbee, you know, the next pet rock. Sure we do. But the process of getting there is a challenging one. It can be done. But there are companies that play on the desire that people have to have the next frisbee. And you say it's a mistake to conclude, you know, this is a very reputable magazine or a reputable television program or reputable network. They wouldn't run an ad like that. Well, as you point out, they do run ads like that sometime because they don't check them all out. Sure. There's no way to check them all out. And there are a lot of wonderful sounding company names and a lot of surface promises that sound wonderful. And you have people who are just playing on people's vulnerability and they hook them in. And the way the invention process goes is you can send in an invention for anything. I mean anything you want to.

And some of these companies will say, this is the greatest thing since peanut butter. I mean, I had one time a young couple who had sent in over $10,000 to a company in a series of stages. But their idea was to have three-ring plastic holders for your canceled checks. When you get them back from the bank, you put them in there. Now that might be a fine organizational tool, but that is not an idea that's going to make anybody any money. It's worth nothing. Absolutely nothing. Company led them through. This is great. We've already got companies talking to us about this. Now we need $3,000 to go through the patent process. Gee, the patent looks great. We're really going to knock this out of the park and they just keep getting money until there's no more money to be had. And they'll never see a penny return. And oh, we'll get you a patent, of course. Pardon? We will get you a patent. Well, sure. And even with that, a patent doesn't mean anything. It's, are you going to market it? I mean, you can patent a square wooden wheel because it's

not been done before. But does it have any real commercial value? Not at all. And I tell a lot of people who are looking to do something with an idea. And I have encouraged a lot of people with ideas that are now very successful. But we put the focus on, what are you going to do to market it? I was just at a, I was just at a writer's conference. And there we had some famous authors. We were talking about the process of doing books. You want to be a famous author? One of them said, who has sold millions and millions of book? He said, write your book. Now you're 5% finished. 95%. Who's going to buy it? How are you going to position it? How are you going to promote and price it? And a lot of people get too focused on the idea and think the value is there. Know the idea is, what are you going to do to turn that into reality? Now, there's a lot of good ways for people to take ideas. New ideas and develop them. But be careful about just paying money to a company who makes big promises. One of the things I like about the book is the little sidebar quotations. I mean, there's some from people, you know,

from history. There's some from the Bible. There are some from, I guess some are read them before, but they appear at points in the book where they're relevant to the encouragement you offer to the person who's seeking to get through whatever maze confronts them in finding a way to a career. What is the thought behind? Well, dropping the little box quotations in every half dozen pages sometimes. Yeah. Well, thank you for pointing that out. I love quote. I have always been motivated by quotations and I have accumulated thousands and thousands of them over the years with my own reading, but you take something like Henry Ford says whether you can or whether you can't, whether you think you can or think you can either way you're right. Well, that's a

pretty solid principle. And I love those to just point out simple principles to keep people on track to help people believe that they can go to higher levels of success than what they've already achieved. There's one from Leonardo DaVinci where the spirit does not work with the hand. There is no art. Speaking of art, you point out at some point in there that over the next decade they're going to be something in the neighborhood of more, they're going to be more than 700,000 new jobs available to writers and entertainers in the whole field of creativity. But how much talent do you have to have to get there? And how do you find out when you've got the talent to get there? Particularly, well, if you're starting out or if you're making a career change midway, what is it to tell you that? How do you go through the process of struggling with yourself to find your way? Knowing, let's say I know I want to be

an entertainer. Well, I know I have writing talent, but I don't really know until somebody else pays me for it. It sort of goes to the heart of what you say is what are you worth at another point in the book. How do you know you got the talent to get what you're worth, which is really what you feel you work? We have had this incredible swing from production work to knowledge work, which kind of sets the stage for what you're talking about. So if you are laying railroad ties or building a house, that's pretty quantifiable and people will pay based on what you're able to produce. We've seen a demise of those kind of things manufacturing and those kind of production work jobs in this country. They've gone offshore and we've had an explosion of things that involve service information and technology. Thus we have information workers. So what you do when you go home at night, you take the means of production with you because it's between your own two ears. It's harder to quantify that. In every sense, there

are administrative assistants who make $18,000 a year. They're administrative assistants who make $80,000 a year. They're computer programmers who make $20,000 and those who make $200,000. So it's a little harder to quantify all of those things. When we move away from production to knowledge, the creative artistic things are very much like that. We have people who struggle to play a few clubs in town and keep the lights on in their apartment and then we have the Alan Jackson, Garth Brooks, who knock it out of the park. It's not just a matter of talent. See, we can't go to just that. We have to recognize that that's another example. It's not just having talent. It's how can you position yourself to turn that talent into a viable source of income and that involves a lot of things beyond just raw ability or talent. So it's not a matter of just assessing even does this person have talent, but does this person have some kind of a business plan in place where they can get exposure for their work, where they can get

others to see it, and where they can help establish a value on it. Or if they're going to write goodness, you see authors who are wonderful authors whose books sell 3,000 copies. Why is that? And then we have a book that comes out of the shoot and sells 22 million copies per person driven life. Why is that? Well, it's not something we can quantify easily, but there are things put in place that drive a person's success. So if somebody wants to be a musician, what are we going to do to establish you as a musician? Are you playing clubs? Are you getting exposure in your church, asking for opportunities, hanging around with people who are performing at higher levels? Those are all principles and methods that can in fact help accelerate that. But there has to be, you have to see it as a business. A lot of people in the artistic endeavors see it as an extension of a hobby. And so they just kind of see it as if it happens, it happens, if it doesn't, it doesn't. But then they're frustrated when it

doesn't. Well, if you just see it as a hobby, that's all it's ever going to be. But if you really want to turn it into more than that, you have to lay it out as a business every much so as if you wanted to start the next Walmart or the next next Microsoft. We've grown out of time. Dan Miller, thank you for coming. 48 days of the work you love. Thank you for watching. I'm John Ziggand Salah. Keep reading for a word on words.