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     Melvin Van Peebles, the Cast of Ain't Supposed to Die a Natural Death,
    and Kathleen Cleaver
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us this series is made possible in part by a grant from i m s interdisciplinary metropolitan systems incorporated for her art to
me oh yeah now
oh yeah oh oh yeah i want to get all right down fannie mae it all happened at you do oh it does
are these pieces there's plenty
to clean you know you know this is big they know oh yeah
but anyway station that's right justin ries now
he did all right it is you're just seeing two things for melvin van peebles ain't supposed to die a natural death i'm alice hays that the produce of soul your hosts for this evening we'll be seeing was this very important
piece of fear not a little later in the show and we will also be interviewing the creator of this mundane experience melvin van peebles sitting with me now is a sister who is deeply involved in what i should call right on revolutionary business she is a member of the revolutionary peoples communications network kathleen cleaver is a mother of antonio may seal and as usual and she is known to most of you as a wife about eldridge cleaver welcome to seoul kathleen and i'm not certain it assigns name is antonio consistent with the sale yes and your daughter jane to jeju this time it was the masses you know we had some misinformation here we actually collided believe that you had to sign is a reason for that well the fact that my daughter was born in north korea and the united states government and presidencies had no information about this
the fact that she was a registered as an american until shortly after our shortly before we came to united states and that there were too many of public sources of information about who will watch words and why i certainly welcome you home it's been a little while since we have been privileged to have you here and down i know that a lot of things are going we can spend whatever time dealing with them but one is that caffeine you know most people associate you with the international section of the black panther party and god now we have a new organizational it's a network the revolutionary people's communications network is a difference between the two words so our growth the international section of the black panther party was the international arm of the after american people struggle we are black panther party was in is in a vanguard will in the struggle and the representation of the people struggling in this country was given to the
people living in algiers of that time are presently at at that time were members of the black panther party the er international section and being engaged in making these double a are people known around the world begin contacts with other revolutionary organizations and governments visiting their country is studying with him exchanging information and cooperation and the creation of the revolutionary people's communications network is definitely an outgrowth of the experiences of the international section of the black panther party in algiers the experience of living in a third world shows that the access to information inside united states is deeply real conditions people in rio all facts of this trouble is profoundly limited and that what's inside the united states we found also that the access to the people
yet here as to what's going on in this very country the revolutionary developments the different areas as drover what's happening in the military our bases what's happening in various towns that are against more fans which is in wilmington north carolina is so blocked by the media that in order for people to be fully informed and order for them to have valid information in order to form their opinions in order to make decisions in order for our people who are engaging in revolutionary struggle to know what is happening there must be some source of the information of facts of nelson's ours was happening in this very country that's very very crucial and very powerful at the present time don't have the same sort of structural set up as the ipod had no desire which the minister of information communications i say elders is the initiator of the communications network that the network is he is not an organization that is though network
means of linking out and connecting coordinating the activities the skills resources on their broader level on the local level on the national level on the international level of all of those forces that are engaged in this double it's also very clear that the er star what was going on inside the prisons and the state has gone on in the clandestine level have no source of well presenting the information to the people the er fact the suppression of information the suppression of the full sour note this trouble in this country is very deliberate move to prevent the people in the community from realizing what actually happened on what's actually being very progressive manner and to create isolation between those forces very progressive very revolutionary change and
the forces in the community on that would support them if they were fully informed as to what was how how his college acting should really would love to know how he's feeling and got his outlook is it well after being away from the united states for about three years only has become quite anxious to get back into the real struggle is going on on the ground in this country the fact that he left the country was so chilly to avoid returning to prison after having spent some ten th ten years flat often on some twenty years in california prisons so in view of the law maintaining any ability to act in any ability to come to contribute to the development in this country on any level he was forced to lead all he had no intention of staying on this
long but wants unity into the year third world we find that the communications facilities the resources it everything that accustomed to running to in a highly developed technological society is not available to volunteer plan saudi perspective must be slowed down and re arranged power in no in relationship to the environment in which you're living dressing given that i am you know i am now which is now past and i'll you've been in the struggles since nineteen sixty four add two kates are you think you'll remain in the struggle for the rest of your life you know they land on all these responsibilities you'll be in this struggle until it's completed but taking on all of these responsibilities for i don't think i have any alternative at this point even if i tried even if i had a desire to withdraw i mean the opposition the enemy is the forces that are opposing everything has
been involved in an organization and i've been involved in the spill all against jones is even though many people were expelled and prayers are no longer identified with the black panther party publicly on iran there's no way diminishing factors to some extent or increase the harassment intimidation the brutality imprisonment that they're subjected to are so odd kathy this something i think is very unfortunate that are black people on the how to make a decision on their own to unify around something to assist in their liberation for that kind of these issues economy made for them and they're gonna be unified maybe against their will and the yarn the things that are and i do not have any inside information with the things that have been going down with the factions in the panther party you know it's going to be a consummate is that rather unfortunate we have no immunity and that had
become public i did a show on the extremely unfortunate and it's very clearly a situation that was forced a situation that the enemies of the black panther party which many are we're able to bring to head to iowa the blocking of communication the prevailing of more sharing of information i've been lying in a flattering and all those types of things that happen within an organization but one thing we have to understand that any of struggle a process of social change that any organization that's involved in that is a part of that goes through our process of transformation and growth you see the struggle are going through various phases in which the various organizations are different times being profound being creative and as a struggle rises to another level he find another form an organizational form that tony's that need in most of revolutionary stumbles the author leadership comes out of a fraud that is a making up of the various groups in
forces under one hour over one dollar organization like the national liberation front and south vietnam were the odd npr made the movement for the liberation of portuguese angola and now angola there's another thing that comes to my mind and that is that on we are third world movement are kind of our own when it was real or unreal a base that song development and its strength on the fact that there was always china which was referred to as red china be able to supply the arms or the money or leave position and maybe the route of escape you know for us of what your assessment of china's recent moves and love for the united states presents a plan to visit china and china's going to the un and really taking her seat as a major power which is well the to the fact that china is entering into the un is something that should have taken place as far back in nineteen forty nine was so china has liberated all and the fact that the
united states had been blocking that all this time the fact is this that china's find mccain the rightful position ought to represent the people of china but dr visit of president nixon to the people's republic of china is another phenomenon that has caused considerable consternation among all the forces still engaged in struggle without the benefit of a powerful government or a bowl large country to support them the entire involvement of on the chinese and the soviets when they are contradiction has cause girl a lot of developments in the arm third world struggle to know you put in another context and piano entering into the arena of powerful states of the people's republic of china considering its size considering its wealth consider this economic development is something that's been
almost inevitable but for the smaller countries with the liberation struggles that always oh look to china as the vanguard for sending our anti imperialist can hone into so brings it home much more clearly the experiences of other smaller countries and asian the revolution may trouble their base in the forests of yourself collaboration comes from your own people and your own resources you recently visited the people's republic of the congo he was smiling how was that was the most are beautiful and now and charging experience that we had in quite some time and just really are just the emotional experience of going into odd that country for example we were taken to one of the sites where these same shippers came to our pick up those days in iowa one of the old man shows a
cannon that they had taken away from the invaders and towards the wars they have fought to keep the people who are from being taken away and we were discussing with the old man about over this cannon arm about the history and the finding of elders told him that we were the descendants of the people that had been taken away and his whole face lit up inside of clapping and saying is there were five know you were coming i would have particularly kept saying that a country without people can no longer be great and everyone that was conscious that many people been taken away and then taken to america but beyond that they had no idea no information and you can look even to this present day that all along the coast of africa and you have these countries it had tiny populations one in maine and has to lay on the population of people's republic of congo is only one name you you and you've committed yourself to something you think you'd like to see a kids have to commit themselves a strong nation well i should
hope that by the time their generation is old enough to make a decision and commitment that the stolen or are people with advanced to such a level that their commitment is earl act of their generation and a whole generation our is our would be those who are continuing our on the ground work that we have made because so much but his vision it can we reuse country aren't i should be going back to nigeria sometime in january and then returning shortly after this when in the spring you are you're going to be in california for the month of december armed do you have any kind of owl qualms about your journey as you know and be out there so vulnerable and so exposed well known had to me cause i'm perfectly aware of the odd tremendous amount opposition has been
expressed kathleen thank you very much i wish you and publish all the best you know i certainly hope if everything goes as smoothly as you could expect additional journey across this land and we certainly true here for a long time thank you very much within a part of so know welcome home many
many issues ella it's bright featuring eight point five o i'm
going to five cents that's right for instance it
is it is you know
the man who was
responsible for this fall a piece of iraqis supposed to die a natural death is our next guests he is all composer playwright poet filmmaker and producer so i welcomed so melvin van peebles now it's really i'm so far we've seen three dynamite scenes from what i think is one of the most exciting productions that new york has had an opportunity to see and down for me it's a something you know it's almost impossible to see anything that is dealing with the black sheath of and not feel something emotionally and you get something and i suppose that i really contains some of the elements that cyprus the identified with the young thing for sale like to ask you about its production is that christie jesse are now in and raise your leg on me and there's a lot of repetition a line that's worthy of one of their favorite don't like criticisms those are notably near the repetition
the use of repetition as nathan repetitious see sometimes assistant in men's lives explained she didn't have the vocabulary at least five pieces and come raise new label me you can say a thousand things in the us black people he aimed that repetition is time to take all the typical fire ninth of this the weighty sandwiches dance of what the stakes are here as a whole another nuance in maine which around what we're getting very main point my work as visa visa and critics i say they're down there is a black culture and this bike ocean must be approached by an all white american credit as if he would approach and any other foreign culture because it is a very culture foreign to them we are one nation separated by the same
language and the lead we entered the nation on the words is intimate gestures in a nuance in a show than a foot in a hit and the music in the out of the chain of the chord structure what most of these things are not very so you say normal i know my main anglo saxon white mainstream enough and i had so that's a noble words is very limited but the infections a geneticist was a line critics of course only going coming out of their bed ms allam don't get into the other changes so it seems repetitions to the word is repeated but he's not right that this is a whole new thing means farm income which is that the crops actually in the manner of a lot of the critique within the army but down i own refuse to have their own my destiny to find by someone outside my country
awesome out when you use music in a way that is very different your surveillance sweet sweet back and it's the music of the language and also the score gets a gent is it right that i didn't really feel the need to use these do you think it's that are well entrenched in early into this big nestle i don't feel the need to use music when not to use music i assume the use of music obviously a visit late in retrospect along it was that that on the intercom a senate south was ambushed and that the da da da ed dvd where the thing goes along the arm i spread the structure out so it becomes more and more dissonant and has a different needs time of repeated with jerome and the birds of course a very hip to live may not articulated and now an oncologist turn the university
campus network that you think and i think that in that instant they can feel it right down in the nitty gritty without do you think maybe you would've been able to live need a lot of the criticism it's that would actually cause the fall of the peace if you'd caught in a black opera on nine million now on because the black is one word that apple has another number again as a reference to a different structure that is not in blue say of indigenous to the blackberry and nope you would say well this is not the way be is a gated otis is not the way of amusing minutes and they you know they know that you have a lot of controversy raging around through phases of everything you do it stirs up some sort of debate i think that one thing that's very important motions that you are serving our history you know a lot of the things you've done i will
have great historical impact on generations to follow the very tiny we're like no it's a bean both of them as truth that certain breeds the post office but i mean there's another thing that they're leveling at you and that is that you have presented your play on broadway as opposed to resenting it someplace else i don't know where else should go to prison because mrs hearing your students a very ah a very luxurious point people raise an ad criticizing this as you pointed out it's hillary clinton's of blight in the region and elsewhere no one has ever point out where that mythical elsewhere is so it's a nice you know on as a statement that my attacker was nothing is impossible as long as someone else has to do a mossad congratulate you on the selection all at first i should thank you and produces a new program for long has to present the scenes we're doing and so women you know they're doing a gesture and i think that you should know that this is something that doesn't always happens especially with a
commercial production and i'm also i congratulate you greatly on on the selection of joe moses who moses and is elected i love to take credit for that but that's again one producer i don't know that much about field maybe i'm frank cassidy happened with you but tom one of the producers of charlie black world so they do with the man on charlie day is just a just words hr says it's an opinion and the audience question bit about the abyss and obama say that alan gilbert sa production of slave ship stands high on my list of song maybe at the most enjoyable moments other than it along with our audience opposed than actually they're using credit in this on another controversial madelaine suppose that put a curse on you are we going to see that shortly and an
interesting that there's a new focus on you carmen was in previews a black double came charging out if you write to them for the gruesome so actually am ahmed many of the white critics have felt that was known at them it can be level alone the law in that night it should be as a sweet love of the whole society with mixes apathy toward anyone disenfranchisement on a man's in many the man often outsized fearless news than any other night and a couple came to me and they said we love that we only hope the cameras as opened cannes we can make it when we can control our own best and its its same turn around in town that person who's finding broke in the minds of people i'm also understand as my detractors will be very to have a uk europe not to write a day and the idea that and that we can control our destiny
we can control our destiny and if we don't the course for us they refuse to begin by going on about palin buttons are you now on your job or nuns on his two young manager about how your young farmers get rich old boots to work our new name all
run your son's lack of bizarre like the ball got a couple ways that will add value you without knowing you but also bobby do you land of things
things a ha oh god and then and now and
it's been did it oh yeah crime is bad
give me all your past nominal glad you found the background for the work that you do or was it all thought in your head all that has it all happened before some way all on i went to the busier if you were hungry man the feds fix that and maybe that explains why there's so much human with with what we call the street alan and people who i was i was to the drawing element well i'm working on what i know well you i realize it is one of the problems with few blacks gained a certain position on the expected to mir all facets of the blackness with is not saying to those nine point out with his pro i realized my own limitations are marketed to try to them we're what i'm interested in now the only solution i see that that is added to for the bag and
be akin to be interested in something and nine dressed in what the bus and i don't know oh whatever for another do you weren't trying to do is train all make opportunities for other blacks to kids but where they realize is a broader abroad of saying and one of the complaints never been sweet beckett was out of all right well michael absolutely not this lego at the nineties segments in its border than half of theirs is not that visit is over even in somber of all those things do not represent the mirrored facets of daunting to do about that is good moments as another where they can mount express where they come from what they know live without and until we have a lot of very material that is class and do you accept these things an extract from the whatever you can and if you extract anything positive and it's impossible to spend an evening in favor of the film's not extract one positive moment from and then you build upon those you know why do you think
people object to a word because i think after seeing the us seeing now that the blood and why it's obvious up is a dude who's iron man down a bedouin from on his nine when joe lewis for a long time i had nobody objected to any kind of it you're talking to the also a great deal of paranoia on the part of the majority structure because many of these things have been handed to me a pattern as it used to be treating fans will yell that incident that's been i don't know if i'm clayton brothers are very old they clearly only in his article it like sure if their warplanes isis is very perceptive improve their work but the way it would in way says though is that if you do not receive the talk of low two white there's some as a
downed and he is riding in france move with him to understand to winning that into where that it all hid you about a whole thing your own thing and it increases oh well i can when i come at it in the bottom of the incentive on but i cannot that the burdens that whitey and then some to leave their financial had nothing to with the black white relationship head and they get wooden is bread way so was that and would not stand outside the alert than that and the people as a man i have to say we would turn this paragraph this is the play has become the miracle of broadway and in all these shows which opened the same time should we get a day when there weren't people say what would be the grade is an agreed that nothing of the season and so they still get its film and we are right now from in this public then they sell their own work on a financial success you've had from
the streets feedback well it's very important day id laws not snipers know it you know al izzi at of a kind of because the money as that is usually a thing not going to be discussed out because of the people who made millions vivid than i have no qualms about the money i made because the money is power money has allowed in support of that stand that money will also want to run things no one i suppose the dye is based on some record since you write so that night even record this it is a lot of the cast out with your ear next week and an abundance of their new album coming out next week we called up susan harter duo out of it is me because you know quite often melvin out and especially black
people never get a chair is to sort of you know the human side of people like where they're from to know if they're married and the key is not so under just tell me a little bit of i just sell the most common bob probably be the interesting fessler bezos asking about a girl's mom and cosmopolitan on this mainly it back through the month oh and proclaiming as the scenes she interviewed him up the last three women and i think i'd like it entailed didn't yell been swell grateful as well as he put it get its cocoa back to the question of communicating found sloppy much of my private life and that may day i was mary once and she's going to throw you out of southern on all of that now back around when oliver show friends are you from chicago is rage doing that so much
shock that has made a great contribution to the bike he says come on chicago searches are at one time a lot of jazz we sit in chicago katherine dunham is from chicago now and now men peoples from chicago and really is a beautiful novel thank you so much for being all of this is an audio tape which is a real success and neither foreseeable can now how long you think and suppose of an action that run or it's a three year period only one who would have a movie of an actor oh probably you know you're sort of getting around technicians really had to focus some incredible incredibly beautiful people on the impact that this new decision i wished jolly boys very
interesting aspect of this nominee it's very chic good to say well what is all this that you know these are three of the producers to white never leaned on him that we had from the get go we're going to do i have no problem with the two of them are stocked us not forget they were volunteers thought ah how did you learn that it's been it ironic that fat head the air but rather a bit the back and a brother now that involve back in the island zinn
guy when i got the island and the mainland yeah no no nato i am the top of a white i'll go up
in fact go back in and i got mad and i had been and then and then and now in and in here in omaha and i'm from and why and and that has been and that's been in the band on that they also have that they don't recognize that have been in yemen and had been in games and when you know and
have been that's right and when he had been in session been in la i do
well oh yeah we had solid factors is our rich cleaver nolan van peebles now and coleman bill duke glory edwards joe feels awful french minnie gentry and dick williams we also thanked the musicians bob karch non reads lloyd davis guitar austin jenkins on the piano richard pratt on drums william salt on bass and charles solomon trumpet for their participation in tonight's episode so also says buying you for being with us this is alice case of saying goodnight from saul see you next
week and the poor you can hear the people in the pool the past week has been in the past with the pumpkin
this is big well aliens says is the head of this series is made possible in part by a grant from i am es interdisciplinary metropolitan systems incorporated
you'll say well only unknown in newsweek
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Melvin Van Peebles, the Cast of Ain't Supposed to Die a Natural Death, and Kathleen Cleaver
Producing Organization
WNET (Television station : New York, N.Y.)
WNDT (Television station : Newark, N.J.)
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Series Description
Soul consists of at least 124 hour-long episodes produced in 1968-1973 by WNDT/WNET.
Broadcast Date
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Media type
Moving Image
Producing Organization: WNET (Television station : New York, N.Y.)
Producing Organization: WNDT (Television station : Newark, N.J.)
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Chicago: “Soul!; Melvin Van Peebles, the Cast of Ain't Supposed to Die a Natural Death, and Kathleen Cleaver ,” 1971-12-08, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed June 12, 2024,
MLA: “Soul!; Melvin Van Peebles, the Cast of Ain't Supposed to Die a Natural Death, and Kathleen Cleaver .” 1971-12-08. American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. June 12, 2024. <>.
APA: Soul!; Melvin Van Peebles, the Cast of Ain't Supposed to Die a Natural Death, and Kathleen Cleaver . Boston, MA: American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from