Public Broadcast Laboratory; 105

fb in december greece's baby those ballots elements of information tonight good bye and good luck billy joe gi returns from the war in vietnam to is conflict in the ghetto that's right from washington the insides of former

secretary of state dean acheson some comments on the goal congress presidential politics and negotiations in vietnam negotiation i assure you will be a pain in the neck legend known they are the solutions that investigation for the sunlight from the walker art center in minneapolis and other museums the rio examines the question whatever happens to head to head tonight from washington a blt correspondent edward p morgan tonight rubio

is because bing's been trying to play bpl begins this week defense secretary mcnamara announced that he would leave the administration to accept the post as president of the world bank right the real reviews the confusion and conflicting press reporting of the mcnamara story here from washington is that would be more all i know will rogers used to say just what i read in the papers what will rendezvous with a red last week was confusion surprise

among the speculation over one of the biggest stories of president truman fired ironically the story of the firing of the naacp break in washington at all but in london on monday official washington would confirm or deny enough but today's papers battered the story wednesday it was officially confirmed that robert strange mcnamara would run the pentagon seven years longer and probably better than any other man would become president of the world bank for these papers bold with speculative wise and where for the new york times' eminent journalist james right in raised a key question why did the president choose to act on mr mcnamara shy flirtation with the bank rather than on is much more fervent offered to stay on with mr johnson to the end of the term as a financial columnist evans and all that said the views of the military not pentagon officials and civilians are now three am and lyndon johnson's idolatrous boswell london william quite solemn moment

potentially shrewd strategy to strengthen his hand on a hot campaign issue of vietnam i lose those of crap like mcnamara's exit to a washington power decline while drew pearson said the secretary about the hawks and general joseph arthur washington's most polished journalistic all right mcnamara's military reforms among histories rates and washington post correspondent chalmers roberts wrote with inspired confidence that as for those stories of mcnamara's departure have anything to do with the conduct of the war they are simply not true but i didn't cheat interestingly some of mcnamara's critics in the press of elsewhere those who called him a hall now been on his departure is a victory for the hawks paradoxically there was true that almost every version of this big story of explanations differed as emphasis different through the thicket of fact and fiction the blm was extracted from my sources these durable the

doctor's room for a wider war his successor is likely to be a mcnamara man at least one not be told by pressure is nevertheless wordplay they spend more than the byzantine john sony and manner then from kenny hawk babcock fight with the military brass or their congressional brass objects the president says a friend and never quite understand emotional weight why a fellow might never want to leave it he's heard yet you will move mountains in his own way to reward the faithful servant it is a cruel fact the president did not inform the secretary was actually nominating him ahead the world bank mcnamara learned that secondhand was stopped and indecisive batch of presidential the scene also involve mcnamara was plucked from the formula company by john f kennedy he remains friendly with but not uncritical of that johnson critic and rival by here

mcnamara had pledged to stay until nineteen sixty nine that he'd already been in his grinding job with no more than with some rest longer than even ten is white had been at martin has my ulcer he once said in the president had discussed his future they foreclose business a foundation or university presidents eight or a different cabinet job but there was the banks opening and mcnamara had shown interest contrary to some detractors it could become under him the most powerful instrument of world about lost in the hub bub where mcnamara's own hopes for the world bank raisin is montreal's speech in may sixty six imagine the bank's loans to poor nations and equated the iraqi double relationship between violence and economic backwardness he will try to reverse that backwardness so hard one x kelly told the reporter that the employees at the bank won't know what we are reliably

informed that the secretary won't leave the pentagon until after its budget for fiscal sixty nine has put together some time after new years differences between mcnamara and the military and capitol hill remain if they ever do mind huy fong harbor one official told me mcnamara has lost the war finally we can report the differences were secondary at an unpublicized national security council meeting last wednesday most of the men their lives through crises together back to the bay of pigs if differences have been so sharp as the press says confided one participant we all would have blown apart long before this now mcnamara was leading the circle wouldn't be the same eyes were wet at that meeting only a lyndon johnson could have expected the non league of an appointment involving one hundred seven governments but recalls one white house veteran operators cracked over changes before and lbj nominees can be the last you know like just to a point where one marine corps

president said his name up without telling to sum up mcnamara was not forced out in a struggle with the generals he had shown interest in the bank job when he was shocked that the president appointed him without actually informing to paraphrase proper the english poet not only got that president johnson moves in mysterious way his wonders to perform welcome to you returning again to report for the consumer and the legislative battle for federal meat inspection meat was back on the congressional menu this week after the house rejected the senate's mondale montoya bill to federalize almost all meat inspection as congressman and their staffs sat down to their steaks or hot dogs tabletop shifted from politics to what was on the plate for senators and learned that their own dining

rooms were supplied by one of forty and inspected plants in washington and moved by this the house continued to hold out for a bill which would lead inspection largely up to the states that's the issue was forced into conference to iron out differences pbr explored those differences one of the pioneers in the fight for strong meat inspection laws as representative neal smith of iowa who supports the senate version rep paige belcher of oklahoma recently warned senate supporters that if he got the bill at the conference he would quote change it so that they wouldn't recognize interviewing the congressman when it cuts of the calls publications and tom leach of chicago's america you think there is a significant difference between these two bills so far as protecting the public is concerned there is a very significant difference i think and i have been fearful that maybe the conferees or did not would not see that to hold the senate bill together i hope it will

why is that fifteen percent of the navy is slaughtered non federally inspected plant twenty five percent of his process of non veterans pension plans and it's this area that deals with never liked the house bill miller makes reading the aide says states that worked for me on a federal standard deviations there's no requirement that they do so congressman boucher do you object to the provisions in this bill that say that the federal government will move them up the states do not do the job how to activate leah senate amendments in it which gives the authority of the sect and i record just walk in and take over a plant regardless of the governor of the state legislature are anybody with only a state i think that placing too much power in the sector of agriculture and also nail i being on the committee on agriculture for seventeen years i know something about the meat inspectors

and federal meat inspectors our are not to know entirely only because they had much and two convicted up in the er for taking bribes and permitting forgotten some collaborations of other animals mixed in with sausage and so the mere fact that the victim and to federal inspectors will make him any better than the state the inspector and in the same time i get to the fact that their sect and then recovery can walk in and take over a plan and say the shutdown even though the review at all is fine show the first that the governor now to work in tech courses his education how he has to get notification of anything you need and conditions that existed long run into a gathering of pauses by unanimity in and going into what should never allow notify you're just it trying to register two or three year period in which they have to bring up to

federal standards but oh what do you do during that two or three years period and you got to have some way to get those plants inspected are the worst at least another option to add a measure say well as the governor thinks is bad nerve in his statement on the inspector live in the show that are somehow congressman what about the rights of the consumer during the next two or three years out you think that there are consumers that like some protection during this yearning i think they would i think they like protection from from verdi made i think that like protection from bombarding malcolm and everything else the entire gamut of the food industry i think that insurers would like to have protection from within i want to give them protection but i'm not always people that believe the federal government is the only institute an institution in america that can do things every iraq for a job

mr boucher says that he has as much confidence in the states to do this job is the federal government and you have more confidence in the federal system is perfect but based on the history i give them a lot more government and the federal inspection system than i do in most states i think there'll be some states will do a good job over the labor guide however based on a problem in which the state and the federal government are working together and are they don't we have now i know that there are for years they they possibly will to a great extent to go along and shine light that when we make a partial it all published and of course all those published images that you give them that for years national characters got this picture

and it created a tremendous scandal about the rich bayous and now that the scandal has created i think that the state legislature's will when overcome right joe and compassion thousand cooperate not immediately at that age i couldn't make it and i believe that these conditions existed at all and you could paint pictures you can do everything else that wouldn't believe it and i'm afraid that as soon as the attention goes off the subject matter that they'll forget about again unless we heard it right in this bill for what will happen at the proper time if something isn't done that street agriculture in negativity done something else to participate you fall because i haven't heard that agriculture and then the formica met in the last twenty years as confirming that you know that i can recall i think that the big difference is that job with the state's plants there is no law in some states that makes is illegal and

if somebody does this and federal study plant they're doing in violation of law fellow be a few hours to do it once in a while don't get caught but in some states is no violation law making continuing the committee of which are the ranking member for seven years what was going on to issue the writer well they're just there just wasn't enough interest in the entire united states did to cause a chairman of a committee or getting caught isn't that it is now in congress that for six years and mr smith it's pollen pollen protection bill the american consumer and economists ignored the same funny thing for most of four hundred and thirty five members in every single one of about a lot of pet projects just like them which they've been yelling for well the one that creates the most generous as the one usually the chairman of the committee gets up before it goes the males got this one ever went out of the whole bunch of her pet projects that were

constantly over fifteen thousand <unk> here mcauliffe a pet project that this is something that affects of indian woman child now not every earmark pork barrel fills in fact a lot of people but you know this is a national issue this is a national something affects one area of the country and i think really this is that this is a reflection of the fact that the consumer to this country and organized two hundred million strong i don't really have a central illinois an organized noise and the bigger this country gets a more population we have the bigger the markets on regent street the more money they are channeled right down to one head lobbyist who can effectively represent that industry so we hear from them very forcefully that we don't hear from an organized themselves mr belcher house and senate conferees and meet tomorrow in these two different approaches to affect that need inspection where is your

prediction on the bill that the report out and i don't think that the animated a public image there for only a show annabel i think the country's only on fundamentalism in which there may be one or two calls local and they might they'll realize they might be eliminated so they pretty much i think for your own protection now some of this may depend upon how many people write your congressmen during the coming week but a very crucial period in this home inspection legislation to proceed and people like that on monday the conference will meet to determine the fate of the new meat inspection law on the house side all but one of the conferees voted against comprehensive senate measure they are mr

teague of california says the gatherings of arkansas says mayor washington used to belcher of oklahoma and message press allen poe of texas the lone dissenter was mr foley of washington sponsored a strong house bill which was previously defeated the battle for federally inspected meat for every american consumer may be lost not on the floor of congress but around the conference table behind closed doors well last friday night nbc news presented same lot same blood a television documentary on the negro jie eyes in combat in vietnam but when these negro veterans from all that i want are they as philosopher eric crawford told cbs news the only hope for that kind of leadership negroes made in a peaceful america or are they as stealthily carmichael says going to turn their wartime skills to what militancy in american cities the bls produces new jersey and when brown dry for some answers they report now in

good bye and good luck is back state laws this is a minister by the veterans administration

in particular the polish big station kqed reports these days it's been nice

there's been playing the puzzle what's been worse because because because beans bean in the

area this because it's been a surprise so this thing is big

he's been saying that it's below now thank you it

is ms bailey it is this week at the hearing today

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resources to the desert don't shoot thank you thank you this who

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at fourteen and you like to see the state and the parish are still married to her very few years or any other question like us it might be a problem and i'm here to help you with your plans are training naturally i have a few questions like that you know i've mentioned that this counseling is optional is not the wire but the service is available and there are two types of counseling sessions we have a counseling session

this week that orientation of the tow program and we didn't use certain educational information but then there is the individual counseling are two key points her and that they were mostly do you know if you're going to a school you will find there is an allowance for absences of course we watched that carefully because if it goes beyond a certain point and is considered excessive and chickpeas me it's been very nice talking to you and state issue

an issue it is you know these people are saying that that's because many people now so i felt it had all the rides the

security council what would you know about the situation the watts riots anything particular fight what has caused you just go no money has been spent you know in a situation over that are trying to do for you and you become it and get life just an installment but not really give it all to me i got a weak there's a certain a new analysis on this is what weinstein because of astuteness whitson says that

led to the crisis in this place in panama and then another is bustling community watch and say you've lived from the probability of an event back in their body but the new mayor will remain the power in the community and there's one lone as though they wanted this all all

the white people that fits the added the opposite john away with it they get the seven express a way out our data to work your military obligation you obligated to murder both cinematic obligated to people like people is seventy and have another police a lot of police but they got a monitor i mean thank you it's a rebuke of the state to give these people to service you gave them as you know the guns then we have on what's in the bill right now that will be out there all day they say they

respect them as beautiful thank you think it's that so this building staff buys be with you the

fbi oh man they say that actually ever turn back into the regular way on one wall they say to me the only new job was what's the difference now like to save people's lives there has one hell of a lot of difference in fighting in the rain and join the war in vietnam there and see

if they're willing to stop some people there will be no bounds if they do know that we are going to owe the iowa backed by any means necessary and how to do this do not judge us harshly for those of us who wanted to lay a foundation for kindness could not ourselves we can and that's a continuous load of people in your life you have been in the

authority of the city a bit and it has been i was being with

us it has been so he's been

you know it's been a delight you do it

has been no no you know it's been quite a day yes

but i think it's because the products it's

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need money i'm going to give you it

was close to move like if you happen to have any means necessary to continuously to respect but you have to pay for the black coat this week nikos brought to

power and three months' time bibi health plans to revisit louis jenkins to find out the decisions he has reached the insides of dean acheson including his views on negotiations in vietnam de gaulle congress in presidential politics and from washington a personal viewpoint of edward p morgan will begin on bb elkhart too and one minute after this pause for a station identification with the insides of dean acheson it would

reduce the former secretary of state is the blt correspondent that would be more once during the korean war while the state department was also being attacked by the scourge of mccarthyism dean acheson borders taxicab in washington the driver stares argued the secretary of state he voted yes i am i just replied do you want me to get out connecticut born seventy four years ago dean acheson yale nineteen fifteen has been in and out of government all his life in recent years he has counseled prime ministers and presidents egan welcome to animate with score begins it was harry truman general george marshall and robert mcnamara among the greatest americans he has no tall erect splendidly tailored whitney farsighted in short tempered he has been called opinionated wrong but never dull he helped invent the marshall plan the truman doctrine and nato all which a pulpit or your aunt is dean acheson think of the world today the yellow sign the same student keene the question was going to interview him in his

washington home layoffs which divides his time between writing a doctoral thesis at harvard and publishing the ripon society forum a liberal republican magazine arnold steinberg spent two years at ucla before coming to washington to study at george washington university and editor new guard the journal of the conservative young americans for freedom mary gram as a first year law student at new york university she's a graduate of radcliffe college and her husband is serving with the army in vietnam stanley sanders graduated from whittier college and was a rhodes scholar at oxford university is a third year student at yale law school with a special interest in poverty law students met with dean acheson at his home in washington dc here uninterrupted is part of their conversation stratus and as

undersecretary of state and then secretary of state you're really there the creation of a post war world has europe developed as you would hope answer it is yes and the present economic state of europe is what we know and this is really the great success of the policies of the nineteen late nineteen forty nines a nineteen fifties and europe did everything that we hope that we're going to drill more and the political and military phase now and there has been already signs of attitude now been a great resumption of nationalism in europe which is blighted some of the great hopes to chew on another instrument for more than others head creating a unified europe and to which a unified germany could be received this is not going to set in part

inevitable movement of fortunes in europe imported crystal influence in general to go not entirely but they vary substantially and so i have to qualify my answers once it a sentiment he sent a politically your thoughts in some ways europe haven't turned out as you'd hoped an economically if i've been pretty successful but those two things aren't related art they how important is that for instance in it flip for unproven to be part of the common market near from both the political and economic and general future oh it's very very important and here again your roots ingenuity the general is going a long way jacob bach jess foolish way i don't think it's in the interest of france insured isn't the same as being in the interest of your very all over britain israel for the world because i would believe that conclusion of britain

and the common law oh would lead to a broadening of the common market and the accomplishment of a greater reconciliation within europe including eastern europe and the soviet union this i believe is really the way of the future and those basic ideas seeing immediately contrary to some very basic concept their adoption i acted with in new or the possibility of any kind of a balance of power it just isn't that possible that there isn't enough cohesion all possible cohesion and that when western europe can use to balance the vast paul and technological advance of the soviet union the dispersants yes if there is to be a balance of power there must be that nexus between western europe and north america which was one of the basic elements of our reports on what ought to do or so what is an

outstanding political problem in iraq what is the number one problem number one problem seems to be the division of you very well for easing to do with our allies to say believe me it is true and they can find that a great many of them led by france would say no it is not a big enough to whittle the number one problem in europe you're going to say is germany jordan doll wants is a nexus with the soviet union for is to bring about two thirds of the triple on top and allocate driven in a permanently second class positions we can't have the union of great britain and russia and france and russia and thus i think is the basis of the us and europe from the atlantic to the euro's this is what he's talking a curious phrase that led to the euro's stretching as far as

siberia despite the russians beset who's eager to do that and it is a it maybe has looked at a modern about how you've saved yourself one else is related this one has military all to do with his political arm and i would say military power is not just that there should be such military park outside of the soviet you to prevent military power from having anything to do with a question and you know and then the wishes of the soviet you if they're supported by irresistible military power to be carried out we talked about god when we do about half at this moment he's on his way toward developing an independent nuclear war which as you say could threaten stability rather than at what we do with our position i

think the answer to that is we relax and there's nothing that you can do about his nuclear force for change in general the goats you restore his actions one of the sources of gentlemen goes policy is there is complete and consistency is incorruptible unbelievable and persuade the harvard says as a good position dollars is that makes a lot of all this is that kind of a patty jo do it reaches their families that man unknown far west used to have nearly the case that you just could not begin with him at all and now a small concentrated power to be dangerous and he has two more concrete terms if you were if you were in if you if you now secretary of state in what is the post post war

world how would you we negotiate the nato treaty that is coming up you know our what what in concrete terms of what we do than half of the people now this isn't one usually says senator i'm glad you asked that it is not raising interest lies i think if i had responsibility it really is coming to a conclusion it was a certainty as i think it is now a mine informs day that broader about a fourth of the deep for next gen ago would announce the nato treaty i think i think it's good if it doesn't that's how much good luck but i think very well in that is so then you begin to plan about an alliance and about a situation in which you were not embarrassed by having

in your counsel and not on how france's worth nothing to make absolutely nothing and a nato will be improved by the absence of this france rather than how about starting with that what would you do i think i would go back to what i was saying in answer to india and to say to that yet this group of allies agreed upon what our primary political prominence and it is a problem of unification are let's go about all things were going from that point you live there you on that problem one great political policies to decide nobody is going to be sacrificed to this project the german soundbite of a half french identity nobody gets coral area that nobody goes rushing off on his own to moscow and tries to use somebody else's selling out somebody else's of

bargaining with the russians we will act in the late third principle the maintenance of one of the armed forces that are hit europe must be taken as a common responsibility and you cannot europe cannot say as it does today too inconsistent think you must not reduce one single soldier you have in europe but we are going to be one thing to help you economically or financially to know that we don't do every weekend what they cannot fake british of ourselves this way and expect that we take to be their financial policies and economic policies are likely before scientists at the same time this is a system that the pope's and then his august more general question can we even have a european pulsing with the focus of our attention on southeast asia sees that is yes we

can read a mythical mississippi steamboat which you know is used as an illustration the steamboat could not go upstream and blow the whistle at the same time didn't have evidence that the united states has gotten nasty we could have a european pause say we can have a vietnam policy we can have a domestic policy this country can do a lot of things eventually the bottom of the country and it must in the us so that we can have new and all the polls in an uncaring those indictments own blog that were going on job with the domestic pork for example poverty and that many think at least the postings of european history in politics think that we're neglecting our european policy is this

is this is neil are all because we're preoccupied in other portions of the world so i'm not saying we are doing this i'm saying we could and there's no reason why we should we could wire hardly well we all could be that a voice and terrorism we are why not this is a weakness of human edge not for me to attack the administration i support of the united states we could do it now you have all kinds of political problems scientists then the house representatives would and the senate would make it very difficult for the president to do it and very difficult sure it goes into the pollen count can still isn't that a real limitation on part one the big question of what the congress and so what

the what the intellectual reaction to a certain policy it depends how much real fight on there's various problems would not have been relevant question and it was he went ahead and did a lot of things that can be done right we're going to go down and get the rule not said now thats difficulties of the way of the weakness but they say that because we are a doing what we are doing in the uk now we cannot do something else as a nation is just not fair our ability to do a lot of things at once also depends on how well things are going in vietnam and how long we're going to have to be there and how many troops were going to have that you think are present commitment a sufficient you think will win the woman to become perfectly prodigy and would be quite absurd for me to undertake to

tell the pentagon what troop commitment what i can you know from our own experience and then i'll try to be more responsive to your question is that the number of krill future will appear to me as a great deal with to do with a number cruncher prepared to give and the soldiers are like everybody else and nobody has enough of the material that is using to do it joe and their workers whether it's at war against poverty or whoever is there or on with their porridge both civic symbol around nineteen fifty after joe mccarthy's republican party korea he put out strong signals of the great purple passages of distress and as it was and what it all sorts of reinforcements we have to send in more american division i get

chiang kai shek to give it's a nationalist troops to fight that separates and we said joe mccarthy you have all the true true need to get out with those forces you make your plans don't tell us should meet anyone could happen again and you're not going to get them for other reasons which i won't go into so badly needed in europe and in the problems we have ports world and that he wouldn't accept that and fiddled around and went to the press eikenberry disloyal and hispanic and he was remote he was succeeded by a general who is one of the finest shows that rich way who accepted the materials in the toasty head and said sure i can do this your mild why anyone and much more now i think fortunately at the present time we have a commander who is a fairly

disciplined first class will do exactly what he used to with exactly what he has and will not be running for the newspapers run for the presidency something else on this issue bizarre be objective analogous to our objectives in korea in the first years and it was almost exactly it's almost the major part of the war in the south isn't really an insurgents guerilla war and how and should we be involved in that kind of containment this is a monument chimney over normally gotten away from them and i don't believe just for lawn signs to prove as well this war has been won which is that instigated on directed and now they're a lot actually

but the back my mind is your much quoted a much criticized statement that when it ruled korea out of the american defense perimeter at one point and i wonder if you were right and that is if the if what you said then doesn't doesn't apply to vietnam as well that we should we should stick with the islands off asian and not have standards probably a thousand times that i love you might not understand it but i didn't rule anything out of it i was talking about military situations as they existed at the time and i chose that word used by joan mccarter exactly one year before and decisions by the joint chiefs of

staff which carried five eighths in pointing out that we had garrison with our own drew a new line for the defense of the united states and that this was not the line or wait that's what it was islands in the western pacific which began with the illusion cocoa the main island of japan went to okinawa and they went to the philippines we have cases we have the american pro wrestling reading there we had naval vessels air bases everything that was the defense of the united states and i used to carry news by joe mccarthy which was the fed sporadic acts we were making the pacific in american life that's what i was talking about foreign policy fact i went on this very clearly that

so far as areas beyond this because they are problems were critical problems of the united nations has their own but they have to defend themselves and then they had to resort to the united nations and after that they have a general appeal to the rest of the city to come in but his usual should be done through the united nations and that's exactly what happened in that exactly rule anything out this was made up in the great debates and in the campaign fifty two bob taft to eisenhower manufacturing this this idea that was the true that'll work that was the reason why we we haven't made sure why we are and why we were a very good idea good raise but he does want to make it clear that it has nothing to do with the defense that we set up in the

pacific moving from mid pacific west does that that really can understand it one last look at the border and people all us what we have been concerned with both in korea and in india we would be very much where it also about in indonesia and in the later malaysian each well or something unlike the station so prosperity victory for japanese and then we brought about by somebody else and the answer is not yet within the ios a reasonable means we can prevent this happening subscribe and a very vivid if vietnam would be completely communist the rest of asia sooner or later perhaps sooner what would also become a thing that whoever this kind of aggression appears we have to

get into a land war i don't care what i know i that's a nice and trappers and the cheeses and when security much the loss of important players like southeast asia is a disadvantage now the question is you don't have to have the disadvantaged old habit and it's worth the beginning of efforts to have this is not mean and fighting to keep this area allied with us i should take in one of the statements a desirable outcome of this was made by and if you look at a gun out and added i should think a year ago on a summer sixty six called await piece india in which he takes up the objectives of the conference in which she was one of the co chairman in geneva

and fifty four and says that its only desirable all of southeast asia should be can where nobody having anything we will not leave their own laws chinese everybody they should stay out of it with fellow that now you can bring out about which is a desirable thing for such opposite direction and right now we seem to be going a lot of it are already more than we really we were korea it says this history has been really an extraordinary example of how all was horrendous stories tall expected to talk about the true and can i try another piece of cheese or mr lippman we spoke to him in last interview said that if all of vietnam went communist it would still be added

chinese silk american purpose of keeping a check on chinese expansion would be satisfied anyway you agree with that i was when i think social spending about all these things that i like about eunice aren't really bad i can't remember any of this speak of the similarity between us as engagement in vietnam korea is right as they're negotiating a way out vietnam and and what what parallels negotiations korea who runs osha most undesirable i think there is no possibility of negotiating a way out of vietnam that says that pleases you some people have completely

wrong idea of negotiations as conceived of by that communist and i just think that by us in different with us negotiation is the david hare a business in which both parties water reach a result and each one wants to get a slight advantage in reaching a predetermined result sale of a horse at the border and the communists i have a house wants it or negotiation negotiation is war carried out by other the us and what they hoped to do when a negotiation is not to bring about the peace within this event somebody in the chorus will separate you from your allies question the mystic trouble at home so now in all experience that i've had with the communists negotiation never preceded this settlement or gone anywhere this was true in greece they get on the operations against greece until the victim

unproductive and stop and the blockade of berlin and i went on and it was feeding him more than it was really as a misstep in the case of korea exactly the same thing happened in fact except that we spent two years a few helpful that price on them come on joe it seems to me that this is exactly the sort of thing that they get in india when the commonest cio it that this effort has not succeeded that was stopping it or finding that if they get bookings in which how the united states will be negotiating for that term had even greater confusion confusion leads is security says the negotiation is not a realistic possibility at how we're about to stop in

korea it is afterward i get time to actually get out of a siege really actually got kind of a reward for greece actually that kind of pressure and taking stock negotiators there's a lot of people connected with that but it's not like a fish well we chose the economist mark vitner is operating on the cross with principle of negotiations as for the ruins of war they just don't seem to be operating on a principle now that does not have any negotiations and i assume that they either have thought that they use they have put into or don't want to do it and have problems of their own i don't know why they are operating they don't want to negotiate under your theory that there would be

parties would not that would not retreat from the offer my theory and i there is that if they don't negotiate this is the purpose of the negotiations and maybe they won't negotiate until the russians that negotiated about the blockade of berlin for two years you could say they were operating on economist gary during that period they were obviously communists were obviously operating in they did not negotiate then they didn't like the negotiations really came to think it was merely a dialectical previewed they're going what they're going into other languages and i'm not in parliament i don't think that the role of the country or the use of twitter country are a nation state puts a negotiation process is independent of everything else and that of the communist north vietnam this

is acting differently prior to the negotiation stage are seems to me some evidence that its use of the negotiation and so on might be different fish and land last summer while you're going out and we can like i don't want a cult object is to try and convince one of them when i'm trying to the forefront of conventions says all right around a little bit and say what you wanted the president and everybody has said on the hour every hour please leadership will negotiate and on the sea and the land and the air of tension in livermore to need rain doubt about the fact that he was the commissioner so i want him to do well but the big question we are a prisoner was your assertion that we should and we ought not to do it all at the same time my fervent

prayer is that we wouldn't have to if you wanted to change by pressure in the senate negotiations i assure you will be a pain in the neck that you know mayor the solution is to further that you don't have to take my prediction i have my fears may be outweighed my hopes you were younger you have more hope les snead all i can do is to tell you wouldn't you if negotiations aren't the solution is there anything that will bring an end to the conflict that will bring this phasing facing down on the object willis and therefore i would arrange what we do to bring about the failure of that object in such a way to make it easy for them to give it up and therefore i would use this question of barbie as a military and other tool which were

also given to a diplomatic situation where they can then with is less loss of face little also faces possible could you just be more specific what one particular could we do that would enable them to save face in a military way for instance our mom and could be made obviously an adjunct to the war of course military a demilitarized zone so it appeared to be was primarily directed that there is gray edge to this where you called from are supportive of fraud in the weakening lines of surprises are going to do everything that is necessary to weaken the enemy in that particular major military back then as you know we can and as they do want to stop indicate that as they stop this particular weapon would be

less you or not used at all some citizens were going to have to talk about it but do it there is all the sense in the battle of course that's so then you see by eric kohn says yes correct to be going on for a buildup go and bomb and of course if on the other hand says and they're really quite high and you don't need to do that is it all they begin to get a correlation between things which are really correlated some people claim that a bombing parts of the past have increased casualties on increasing the capacity of the enemy that way or i do agree with that and based on that and foreign policy i don't think it is bombing pauses make that any sensible unless they're related in a room while a military situation this choice i see the present cameras no one

around christmas edition this fall compassionate reasons the state on christmas day for that i would have to get into another parallel or lack thereof in between vietnam and korea i agree we did end up not fighting the chinese what is the relation of the chinese to this war russia that the chinese relations is one of value of support as i think i do not want to get into these are not proper profit by getting into the air chinese intervention in live in a predicament maybe we made a great respect the indians of course tell us that this was going to happen and how and i had the panic gone down in the middle of the night and said we will intervene if you cross the city of parallel i thought that

was unique and i want to think that if they had known what he was told about their interaction what would have been an important article critical not he was going to take his forces up to the neck korean establish himself strongly there and see what he could do and the north korean crew ships they ran into real trouble came back in you know from north alone extreme no records that were seized by some kind of a strange passion but to occupy the whole country and carry out the un resolution of october seven which had been sort of a formal list that resolution supporting its nineteen forty seven position of the united korean united government is now the idea of the us us about author west of that it carries out by it you were welcomed the north and then a

kenmore and curious things of madness seizes people not a name across the demand is there and the troops and i kept running into chinese and if you catch a chinese it must be chinese rock of the food bank and i reported this and fourth of november said integrate comply to the un saying chinese intervened in the north there are around here were captured and they were all separated impossible military position idiotic of another twenty forties and now voyager and end all one great portion it's over and chinese as bruce dial or other rwandans columns two months later he'd reel back south and showing it this is terrible it now also has a narrow neck the numbers is any possibility of i'm going up to that mannequin is always support for violent writers of discussions and

everything and this is exactly what i think one or not because as soon as you look at that then leonard field for the soul for the more you put ground forces into north korea and north vietnam you bring down the whole new archetype that now occupy were trying to occupy another country low chinese the more activated pill an intervention like this i think is non productive operation we can do everything we need to work out that well we've been talking a lot about the similarities between the korean war and the vietnam war in one way do you think that mr johnson handling of the congress and the and the making of foreign policy is similar or different to president truman's when i licked your president truman's family of it was simpler and less excitable and

then pressed ahead the similarities are that both of these wars wars and richer people started out more favorably disposed to what was going on and they ended up i think this is true of all this and understandably so that is particularly true of the small role this as against the big deal is every president truman took this from reporters that we've got to see it through outlets heavy downpours steady as you go hard get rattled get excited and they kept saying we were trying to do i think the president is always hopeful that what he says is going to make people more favorably inclined to the war i think this is a hopeless in that just can't be done industry tries to do it that it just

can't be that people aren't going to like it if you get a lot of what he did that was like and therefore i would hope that he would take it in a more relaxed way not try every day to have some new ideas and send people around the world famous in himself make a lot of speeches about it i'm just saying that i have to see this thing dress your relation with truman was say that of eisenhower in dallas when president johnson said any differences there it's hard to do this every year for his personality i would other people i think of the president and the idea that i was his chief secretary he had the idea of secretary of state in the old elizabeth and said you were a

secretary of state or private sector in your secretary of the other hand in the secretary's shippers day he's so all dealings with foreign a foreign nation sent this was the senior responsible oh is it is the mosque also secretariat sense unsecured weapon and some very harsh words to say about mr ruskin us wondering what what's your view on on his office his tenure and they're responsible for mr rusk in boston jack kennedy was then president elect kennedy assassin sitting in this chair he asked me my advice about sectors did not recommend ross i don't let other people that they're not i don't know on and on over says an effect on me and what i think i brought it to his attention and

there's a risk had been completely loyal and able and courageous colleague of mine in the state said that he'd come to the bistro china policy and when bassist sectarian that timelessness about to leave and become invested in sweden the rest was then deputy undersecretary of state he came to me and said i am applying for the motion i like to go back to being assistant secretary and i'd like to take over this job i sit here you get the congressional intent of a lot of the purple heart or what he really wanted both cheeks and gave the job or they didn't have it but none of the kennedys

as a different style from what i haven't heard of one dollars perhaps it's the best now i don't know probably could be when you're secretary of state you had a very close working relationship with senator vandenberg and say well what's the working relationship like now between the secretary of state and members of congress taking the chairman foreign relations committee relations long as employees one of the reasons i think is that the canadians train foreign relations committee and my day and are the most important emphasis and there were looked up to a why everybody and there were leaderless

what other than a very good the republic or whatever it probably did it whenever i give the president something here and are the action of the three of us when we will carry the thing will use to date much more and i use i think none of it is to say that the foreign relations committee and to some extent the foreign affairs committee well i think this is more thrillingly senate committees in the house do not have as high a standing as they did fifteen twenty years ago when the congress and secular versus this seems to have been a great war ii grown up about getting along with cops because i always considered to be a waste of time which wanted to do is to get your way and

then the minister for the show the obvious like people like to buy the u on a lot point was through the cumbersome when you have to have some success as well maybe they fit i've they will pull some success the vietnam war or care for fulbright and simple right it's perhaps a special place i think he's rather more difficult job than speaking for example he's the task that affect your favor of that by not a private session but public that it is not only football one question on politics is politics we're coming in a nineteen sixty eight that you are democrat or a coin you was there every indication going to

support president and that they have any opinion on some of the republicans' mentioned to oppose it i am a strong supporter of the president and we'll support you think that the democrats have the two best people qualified to be president and the president and the vice president to the country passes it will actually show you choose the republican ticket said porcelain political i don't think any of them in the sense that for this office i don't mean that in a good men some protection but they seem to me to be only qualified for and unable to daily there's responsibilities this office so people who want to see to make the difference between them except the fact that some have a better chance of getting some votes than others that they don't interest

me i'm not really capable of the preseason and appreciative nc rockefeller i know very well and would not be for the governor of california seems to me that very little clam on such responsibility i mean forget the names and all can go through any of your important it i really don't read about these people and do you take seriously the candidacy of senator mccarthy and expect that to have some effect on the presidential election now about it no to an unlikely very much is a very abusive priests who were not saying they had all day in this one man who's had no one republicans has had a role in foreign policy

mr nixon eating forgotten his name in this area members they knew a lot about him when he was in the house when he was vice president of the respectful at all it would be set in the tpp came as if we as as voters of allies in the situation where i want to know what the first steps we should take to change the sort of low situation we've been talking about what would be the first steps to change it i should fit into kenya did your own minds this is this really important the great society with the greatest idea that president johnson and has the most important idea that this country can possibly and when he announced that i was very very good

well what we find it so i suppose we got sidetracked because registration that it's of concern and with various other interests and i think maybe it never was as radical as i thought it was a really a very radical priests and that here was something with a lot of laughs at last this this country has come to the realization that the machinery of production cannot take care of the problem of distribution and therefore what do you do you must have great idea before you start putting band a little trouble spots in the body politic of this requires a great new treatment of a great new treatment i think is for the government much bigger what i had hoped for a region to do with all those masculine me eads which makes life

really a good life not really staying alive and ripped up out of the range of the productive system part of the problem is the right now at least we see a rather horrible retreat on the part of congress shall surely many of the ideas i'd like to see the president get out his trial as the writer of the kgb to let's get this thing going i can't help but think that vietnam had something to do with the fact that knowing i ask what your destiny that we not go and have said that they will go back to a video of sanders and say leadership is the way you get things done don't tell me they're obstacles i know that i fight for nomination could find that those use that attaches a body out of the way and to get anywhere is going up the state's drought say it's impossible coming in some parts of it

danielle continues with a personal viewpoint from edward p morgan in washington perhaps nothing is impossible but in the wake of the mcnamara store a washington is still talking about the impossible workload the leaders of this republic here a former high government official who now labor's only fifty five hours a week instead of seventy five when he was a bureaucrat admonished this report but the pressure to really tell this story a collector acheson's on advice is to forget he contends you can't change the system and he doesn't recall any historic error of governmental policy attributable to fatigue and a sudden crisis of course all standard work rules are all fit any cop lights burned as long for the night in the kremlin during last summer's mideast war as they did in the white house kramer has been ailing and german reportedly one but it is ironic that in theory at least the soviets and forth a vacation for everybody this makes the

routine of the capital of capitalism seemed downright savage by comparison two months ago monday i was lucky enough to have lived it was secondary market and mining region right but he seemed glazed with physical fatigue he had barely returned from a nato meeting in ankara trick that turkey only a few days before that he'd flown to san francisco to announce the bleak us decision to build a thin anti missile system against john nobody could clock the tortured hours he personally spent on the text of that tightly reason but unhappy address in seven years as secretary of state dean rusk who like mcnamara works a six or six and a half day week has had a total of six weeks vacation including ten days in florida recovering from a bad call another cabinet officer argues privately for what might be called the football platoon system in dealing with continuing questions people get locked into positions he says and can spend more time defending them than thinking fresh thoughts about the problem

he would bring and no troops every six months to try new ideas new approach is there is a companion problem in this hour what if fresh ideas and criticisms from below i rejected and resented by those about the problem is boarded up in a letter i just breeze leave from a bureaucrat being a government employee he writes i am led to believe that if i become vocal and espousing causes in which i am interested there may be repercussions from my superiors or their superiors he hesitates to voice his differences on public policy to them to a congressman or even a letter to the other for fear of losing his job how far can i go he writes as a government employee in publicly asserting my view yes it's a question that to give his presumably already overworked superiors a restless maybe i'll part threes another examination of the state of the arts

in america will begin in one minute after this pause for a station identification with another

report on the state of the arts in america and cultural affairs editor louis friedman examines whatever happened to statutes her pedestrian nowadays is apt to turn the corner and the knock down aesthetically buy anything from an ad for the casserole to the newest construction by von schlegel this is the year that sculpture came down from its pedestal and took to the streets a sunday afternoon walk is stealing statues of george washington williams shakespeare in the park whatever happened to them now it means the strange objects sometimes of great size often in brilliant color like fragments from some incredible cultural explosion tv all went

out to look at them in new york city years for those

higher like unidentified flying objects the ground and these contemporary sculptures are part of a new york city experiment called

sculpture in environment and vividly reflect the new directions in contemporary were the artistic days experimenting with formal problems size and scale mass and shape and color is working with all the new materials aluminum and steel alloys and plastics and most importantly he's working with images that reflect the world around him the skyscrapers and machines rather than with images of his interior life he is certainly not trying to memorialize in stone or bronze the victorious general the criticism has been made and many of these works tend to

disappear into the urban landscape they cannot compete with the savage environment they spring from next to the dramatic strength of construction cranes and steel superstructure his critics say they're often reduced to the role of irrelevant justin bieber good evening i'm louis friedman this is a great year for sculpture in new york the museum of modern art is showing that the castle collection to standing room and the metropolitan announced five major acquisitions the los angeles county museum surveyed all contemporary american sculpture and the guggenheim surveyed the world from the pa

talk to the statue of liberty the public is being asked to concentrate on the third dimension it is a wonderful opportunity to compare and collate to try to understand what's happening the walker art center in minneapolis is one place that constantly reflects what's happening in the arts it's a collection of contemporary painting and sculpture has grown to major importance i spoke to martin friedman its director you're using the expression a private iconography as opposed to a tribal iconography i'd like to ask you before we go in about the part of the congo carries right now the walker arts center a fabulously successful show of congolese sculpt here is a stranger significant museum that's mostly interested in contemporary work should be showing oddly work from another century and another one i think that's very consistent

on modern art and desist order something we can talk about later and performance continue to speak to modern sensibilities we can talk about this later one of the

probably the most un african looking in the exhibition yet this is a prototype war which served as commemorated think is ten are places that are not necessarily she is the sixth with the treatment reduces are all in our example is a great variety of immigration from different tribal cultures they cover for the most part

about seventy five years there are a couple of other pieces of the show some climate and these are stones and wrongs their cars is very critical of the sculpture of the region where they are rubber meets the atlantic and style called tailings you know it's very sophisticated terribly director rob the seven eleven successfully destroyed all the stereotypes inequality which is associated with that affect the very term permanent as a kind of immigration which is the sculptor works like this when

he's doing is simply a traditional piece where he's working within a very specific piano tradition figures represented in a certain way as a threat a specified in this case it's a cult figure and the convention is is very strong style is established with an established by by masters before him and discovering that this particular piece is certainly aware of sculptural quality he's taken a very human human is the big year and is taking its image and he's in fine very struck a very hard thing to a specific form it it holds up as abstract or as well as communities a sense that this is more like what i expected from the congo is it families saying there are eager to sign your partner

greensburg stamps i am for a person who is benevolent in recent years tonight many residents boarded a

lot as borat the saudis the idea of making that is is no it was not they didn't find any one area there are some unusual it is much more abstract the president has been hearing their bodies became an hour this was

the strongest we've seen so far why is it so powerful so this is a sunday mass in the same region there was a very strong foundation that we saw earlier it represents a powerful force and as such is expressed and very strong aggressive terms like holy object to come from that region and the southeast congo reforms are very it's very geometric very the kind of care for others on the mass general is the most sophisticated animals that's transformed because of individualism last comic after the worst of the deity already a legendary figure the president's answer it's pretty unfair because it is the center of the center

ok a collection of activity including music dance chanting whatever so this is really hard well nasa has been a dramatic masters of representation of unknown or part of horses whose powers can be manipulated going to try all these things all these men will be saying have a basis in the sociology of the tribe they are in a sense and governors the rituals of initiation of harvest investiture became burial all these things mark crisis rights mindset where stages in which the trial goes kind of time cycle through which the trident and the masks key elements in this activity but again he's a public figure has to sign asks are smaller but not

of a little summer not to be seen only by the nation's other supporters but it is no way that contemporary artist creates something which is simply an expression of his own private feelings toward his own satisfaction that has something to do with the way that people relate to each other so that it's a look at the contrast that are right and both the riches of the future for the future but it all for that matter the mask is made in a very strict conventions while it's very specific their deviations of variations but the individual artist doesn't he acts very little too it may be better than the next guy but he doesn't change a basic convention which is understood by the trial so the tribe sees this particular mass or any one of these particular masks recognize it for what it was supposed to be and what it has always been give or take a little bit of change seems to be pure abstraction for us

as white people musicians portrait you're in a western sense is relatively rare in congo are in this county old man suppose the southeastern conference is as close to torture as one usually gets and yet it's highly idealized even this example from the region such as this are highly generalize very little idea of age sex before being suspended in

time but even in this relatively liberal masks and the reason there was a strong geometric contours variations on trying to characterize these masks and there are science wonky of these initiation masks the triangular motif percent school and eastern division of that many people crooks are far more abstract mass grown

over the head with the features are certainly worse the criminals and the masks of a commentary i come from being an incident drives success is closely related these are human faces various degrees of abstraction and projecting from the great circles of rafiq covered as many nice views human animal or animal horns are quite common and it's not the mask is as colorful frock the these peoples

a face peering out of a circle of upturned knows there's a high degree of distortion these are among the most colorful masks the congo now suddenly after so much a complicated sense of the city why is that i come from southern congo region and they're quite characteristic style that area that they're very elementary forms they are plain or they're very economical an execution and reports it is the result of the harmonization these different genetic elements these a skull mask so that represent abstract hours of forces that affect the community of

threat they represent the spirit so they seemed to me to be much closer than anything we've seen to what we think of as cuba's leaders that he was previously a percussive news oslo who were affected by african masks is this what they were looking at a fine they incorporated into their workers the kind of form that picasso or awkward interested in and around nineteen seventy three is this attack on modern art in the masses and this happened recently i says no

why then there's the museum of modern art had an exhibition of primitive sculpture well for one thing there is this historical identification which we already know and perhaps more important and more immediate is that there are solutions solutions that occur in these forums in his mask on and masks and these figures great variety and enormous investments and there's a kind of corn that strengthens president still has three important to modern artists thank you mr martin freeman director of the walker art center here in minneapolis kick back and during the next year these objects from the royal museum of central africa earlier in belgium will be shown in baltimore new york dallas we asked one critic

whatever happened to sketches and he told us they went to the metropolitan soapy the hell went there and i've talked to its director mr thomas hoving the metropolitan museum of art is a fabulous storehouse of sculpture ranging from ancient egypt and ancient rome to the president this year it will display five new works that illustrate the renaissance and post renaissance periods we talked to mr hoving about statues and sculptures and after leaving this anti roman we asked him about the newly acquired perseus buy can of us standing at the top of the grand staircase statue i think is probably be fine with something in the round in the bistros over the roots virtually because the health insurance a statue has said something that's not so exalted it's a sculpture doesn't have all the dynamism and foreman excitement my personal feelings to the statue as

something lesser today than a sculpture statue is to say that you know this big bronze piece in central park this polish character holding a sword so kind of at a minimal think the statement which has no real net is a true of the people who come to the museum probably thinking prefer these representational works to the abstract i think they probably do anybody that in haiti anything else i think it's very hard for them to approach the reality couldn't really the subtleties of an abstract work and the work of art says got no representation in it is as difficult to understand for certain people as they ate the entire the process of programming a computer that takes time that takes money takes i played this piece hear of the mid eighteenth century but no easier to understand all the subtleties

and innovative usurp example one of the pieces in the caucasus and violent show just because you can understand it is beautiful woman drawing back and hear from cubans who is about to launch a guard them to go beyond this subject of the sea how it's done the relationships of a full replacement turn of the head and less of that all of that it takes time to and it's not enough just to press roberts a woman in all of this and i understand that the pentagon people in the seventies or the texture of all of this how would you say that without using technical critical language or a fear of the traits of love barbecue pits talk to us in the modern love generation you know what the hail the birth control pill or when they can go to better than anybody else and the kids at school expresses freely in this immigration law you have to remember that in the eighteenth century of this time the mid eighteenth century it was just as much willingness indeed do this perhaps more

sophistication and how you do it but at the same time there was seemed to be in some of this culture i am indeed that it is something you want to be cautious about a fear there straight to blue to realize weren't in mythology and one in the middle eighteenth century this particular subject matter and what are the sculptures were the subjects might have been grouped around the same thing as this was a single piece of iceland now with us there have been in some time in the garden where it was placed for other things that might have been a rather tense and complicated story fleeing from one to another and that was we have lost an abstract sculpture we don't have a chain of healing and i think being revealed two years ago went to another and all the environmental things in a sense of a losing one very important part of a literary empire won last year's for example which you saw that meant something very powerful it really when the sensibilities of people at the

time because of its bravery because of its human form the purity of the act of leaving the world of the centerpiece of violence in the classical sense that you know that summer critics saw that very beautiful piece of sculpture dismissed the visit as a priest lit marble the charade that you can't do that you have to put yourself back in that neo classic period eighty four eighty eight when that had all your be in the balance of the sensitivity is a great artifice the stature that mr hoving showed us the fear of cuban starts by limb one will not be unveiled at the metropolitan museum of art until december twelfth it is a beautiful piece of sculpture the question really is whatever happened to sculpture the fact is like any artist constantly renewing itself shedding old forms exploring new ones in a world that's rapidly being reduced to a visual nightmare the old images are no longer effective what we're witnessing perhaps is the struggle to find a new language of

form and the new beauty this has been another individually series of experimental interconnected broadcasts produced and edited for public television by the stats of the educational university and community television stations in your area with the assistance of p b l a public broadcast laboratory a painting as bishops be nice by the police bomb tonight special assistant was received from the public television stations in los angeles san francisco washington dc boston chicago of minneapolis st paul bales

cbs tv detroit public television station with limited financial resources which has expanded its operations to provide residents of detroit news and information during that city's newspapers next week live from the united nations general assembly a concert by your work in many ways in all the violence and ravi shankar master of this into portions of this program where we reporters chris sunday evening december third and this is the bee in it