Dialogue on Red China

fb blank blank blank and president suggests he's lived in isolation now their government and the king has begun to break open the royals that have surrounded the red china is cresting over to take its own place in the crow cold war suddenly

this week it drove away into the powerful nato alliance of the west and so do it is multiplying trade agreements with western countries but threatens to cause a realignment of forces around the room as bleak week there is a dramatic recent incident the soviet union now they will no longer do this rather rebellious spirit so the chinese communists reach out for new markets new loans do well it's not in the weekend event that a

national educational television reasons the point and so davis in the next hour we're going to hear several sides of the red china question we have an interview with joe nye the number two man of china we have an interview with roger holzman the far east an expert in us state department and then we'll hear the divergent views of some experts here in the studio while edmond club of columbia university's modern china project robert chaplain of the new yorker magazine and michael enzi american university now the statements of joy and why they were made and picking several weeks ago to an englishman named felix greene you want to watch very carefully

what he says about peaceful coexistence and decide for yourself to what degree he means it many people in the world today is china's attitude to war and peace we need another aig is that china and the chinese leaders and i didn't have that population in the world the challenge it peaceful coexistence and the west to be inevitable and china to confirm these girls refuse to sign the test ban treaty that we to make of these reports is it true that china doesn't fully grasped the intensity of destruction because a nuclear war and then we

heard nothing about it what really disturbs many people in the world today that the policy of aggression and will particularly the united states the chinese people want a piece of international and that is good for the reconstruction of their mother china wants a peaceful coexistence with every country in the world including the united states of america but that principle that we had to respect the seventeenth patent ever been non aggression non interference in each other think enough earth gravity meter benefit and peaceful coexistence can maintain the position the unity of the chinese people it continues to talk about an effective pitchman in the trade bases in the area surrounding china and japan intruding into town is that the net is to have seen the peaceful coexistence with it

the chinese people know from their own experience that almost drive a piece of work is going to be funded by uniting the world in a common struggle against the aggression were affluent they're i don't like they're climbing of an upset that china is willing to move the nation in the world china could never provoke a chicken and that's what happened to me and i think that the crowds would never forget what they need at a local ikea compete with them and that the advent of a thick layer a new quote were enormous have a program that is that china's then sense we're having the complete perversion and third discussion of nuclear

weapons the united states and china and out of the country's nuclear weapons i can keep a partial ban on nuclear path of not the movies you wrote and the country that the country should assume obligations of china and i think that is the american press has said many times that the root cause of the dispute between china and the soviet union is a conflict of national interests rather than and ideological conflict is so and if it is does this mean that the national interest of the soviet union and the united states attending increasingly to go inside well yet there are differences of principle on a

number of major problems that marxism leninism a prostitute and in fact the international communist movement began it should've been about them matters a man and the unity of the international communist movement is bound to become stronger as a result imposing the reaction i'm not going to drive a wedge between the socialist countries particularly china and the soviet union all they're going on these activities in a most the newspaperman right now in that regard and then the soviet union and socialist countries and the fundamental interest about to say that it's an objective that no one can change that ever happens and the chinese will stand together and i think that in the world of meaning in their lives and their reaction in our countries are going to fail to take advantage of the

differences between soviet leaders in past can the magical spirit of the negro struggle against racial discrimination and the american newspapers as an example of china's basis china they say is raising the issue of race and so is to strengthen the position among charities and at age what do you say about this and the time is right mr cooper the world regardless of color revolution and american members that that was worth it and other american people everywhere to unite against the racial discrimination in that new growth this is a notable example of the firms that again

i met him in the family apartment that when i'm thinking that freedom and democracy and a great inspiration to people in the world and the question of the question i'm convinced that the people throughout the world and that the neighbors would certainly think that in the struggle china's present emphasis on lots of finance have been interpreted the churn is withdrawing into a self sufficient village alone execute what i'm sick of this hector's is pronounced lack of the head and the underdeveloped countries independent begin to advance without fanfare in hell and i worked with construction will allow palestinians in

the economy a country that's on the neighborhood empowerment of its own people the knicks who use of its resources and at the same time develop state an exchange with other countries on the basis of equality and we believe that this is an appropriate policy of the country and particularly in this country that happened and we don't mean that's a vision of the nation is no country on earth everything it needs but the country doesn't even produce have been producing that in exchange they have to be repaid no country can live on loans whatever we have constructed as the newly independent countries where that attacking the gangs are asking independent

and then and i'm an independent and independent development of the national league the new and that we can think of and again the new york times said that kind of the most politically isolated nation on and a magazine and other magazines had not thinking in isolated and that kind of that i think that after undergoing a number and because of the just the accreditation people everywhere in that some people may not understand that they

both within the baboons are only a handful of them the world's population and i think the ones who really are imprinted with the times i think china i think if it got companies in another part of the people there now some questions and investigations and it is considered by many western writers and experts but very damaging consequence is that china's economic purpose looking back from today's perspective that is your assessment of look at that listens to be none of them i don't agree with the weapon that opened up the tenor tenor line professionals construction country and hot and it you know the economically without imploding bad about it and the nine were driving to go to china where the knob another cotton avenue and

another national defense the modern technology i don't have a sharp eared listeners what we name on a compliment but i think the fact that out of it and putting an opportunity commission and tremendous achievement in the last few years and the internet foundation an independent argument that mr the national economy and it was a typical type of the socialism in a country is not an economic time in the coming and that they cannot practical work and not been avoided entirely compilation the wealthy paid for learning how to socialism indeed the tremendous achievement in the posh of them is they have enabled of the economic benefits from that experience and we learn to walk on our own and this is a major development in significance opposed to

an almost total failure and the game rather than me and that's where the conditions remain indispensible the nineteen sixty nineteen sixty two hundred pages it is generally thought that the coming to being abandoned lot of that so much that an echo effect exists in name only you can say something about these parents are kind of operative and the economy better than the nightly news to do show they are for the people and we have a good theory of it with people that ended with us successfully book on the effect of bad weather and the economy the people's communes remain from the social

ecological niche in the process of developing the economy on the edge of the ballot measures this on the underpants thing on this to enable i have seen visit to china construction will hines how do you finance the construction of the factories hospitals and so you have a big balance a baby is china's national debt and how much to in context of people they were the cuts in our national economy come from the commission with edition from on which are the tiny fraction of the state's revenue that we start doing so in nineteen fifty nine and most of those on the church and being the thing

but i will be clear our government has been adamant that the people that everything that happened that would never never had any personal income countries in the world china appears to many observers changed america about the government assumes that exercise in the snow i'm going down to the growth in the world's population the population today is increasing at the rate of almost six thousand every hour and film production and that it is increasingly is by no means keeping pace with its many emerging countries and that inspired apparel or at the economic advance that is directed by the increasing number of people that they have to feed what is china's view of this problem and it's a problem concerning

china's sorrow the problem in the world not a matter of hope that option in an effort to keep it within the population increase i mean i think the population in an unnamed great are independent coach at the highly developed the natural and at the same time the number of unemployment rate that and on the fact that it now in china a population of increasing the analytical about two percent that is more than ten million which is by no means small figure the population is now considering our natural conditions are large country in which resourceful and considering a great path of social construction we're not advocating planned parenthood because it will hold steady improvement in the living standards of the people of the mothers and like an education about the new generation so i'm

afraid it's at that time and so reading them out because you know china had any special mystique you would like to get this news in the united states people are friendly towards the american people i believe that the us government's policy of hostility towards the chinese people with the wishes of the american people and that they will come on the traditional friendship of the chinese and american people as an annual basis those were the opinions of journal i read china's second most powerful man to put them in perspective i talked to roger holzman was assistant secretary of state for far eastern affairs mr johnson as the man who made headlines recently by remarkable speech in san francisco he called for a more flexible and less emotional china policy always

strong but always using our strength to keep them built piece we asked mr holzman what john knight meant when he said that's what china wants is a peaceful coexistence was this a new policy line for communist china no not no transfer of the real question is not the end of a kind of peaceful coexistence the indians for example on the people of india would regard that occurred just a month ago a subject of peaceful coexistence would be used as an actor sir thomas upsets and the nationals

i think learned by this they mean the incitement revolution undermine democratic governments nine hundred and i think that the fact that over and over again words of opinions but they are talking about it's funny does that peaceful coexistence and again whatever they wanted to mean in terms of the things that were known in gun violence publishing five principles so i think that there was no hope and you're like over the peaceful

coexistence and then attack india that's just one of the lions that you can really it's not consistent with our definition of pace for example and i realize it's difficult to summarize the policy of the country like the united states to an area like that china made it possible for you to give us just the fundamentals say american policy toward communist china as you see them first and they said is that we recognize the shadow of a shadow of the publishers the head that we are recognizing they're mostly legitimate china and we support the position of that government pensions we

do not we oppose the terms china new admissions counseling and then spradlin runs through a bonus let's go and the special bonus in our support of our commitments to china of fairness and our determination to resist and help deter any of russian chinese owners another commitment announced that what somebody i'm thinking of here is the fact in this planet and eight we have for example nations world including chinese plant scientist then a republican christian

we've urged the approach to new government initiative by anyone concerned it's going to leave urged many many times like that that's not going to be an exchange of business between the constant sense that oh this is what i think that this passion and i think that the chemo but we we know this is these are complicated problems that moment that puts women who in an emotional and objectively with the best interests of the united states and other things a reporter that hasn't been exactly the outstanding characteristic about china's policy in the us well it has been the last few

years certainly and a kind of state within three years that's a converted me is that you did every other student a very very much did this interview represent any change of direction to any degree in american as i just said this is a house and we have been for some time it goes back actually go back to the past administration more than three years there was a vote you think about flexibility that implies that conceivably there could be changes possibly away from very extremely difficult attitude and position of the communist chinese today about any signs of the president but there is an evolution and standing out to you know

totally change in chinese policy recent examples of the mountains to support joe baumann its aggressions stimulation of insulin as mortars and certainly there's no evidence of china's communist decide to behave responsibly and how and stern i used to have been about the possibility of any major thrust of communist china the south and southeast asia or in the immediate future well i think that term vision the answer to this and i assume that that you state senate allies maintain that is impressive religious motivation in our determination needed notion that should maintain our strength in asia and to maintain their strength i think that this

strengthens and precedent of a chinese firms would be the president to do it and it didn't take into account the strength to carry the movement and thailand and taking a very strong action join like costco these various american policies that you've been talking about imperialist aggression and used the phrase over and over again we can do to persuade him or taking other countries in that area the things that we're doing are not imperialist aggression that they were not engaged in russia in charge of the propaganda purposes only and we do supporting those of us not to maintain and it is not directed against comes to continue

incidentally it's an admission and possible versions of the profitable and that may or may not have done doing the things a question of the sino soviet but i made that very interested to know whether you have any feeling about me the difference is in the present soviet and chinese situations and how american policy might difference between two worlds as i said in the speech to which you refer in the air maybe some apparent divergent series open up an american pilots and the person you found this inflexible in discussions among the first to successfully with the soviet union and sometimes it's not different that has been recently was that the chinese communists have remained in this hard stands for

that's right a positive difference the gravy soviet union has responded to the policy at least for the moment by not pushing any forcible aggression and that the communist chinese have gotten exactly the opposite direction and i wouldn't i don't think you should soon journey of the us senate have changed the girls of the validation and the newsroom there but it's just a tactic is is i'm a responsible gun that recognizes that in the early years and then basically it was the premise of the west which which made of action on economic policy could you say something about what you think

we but in my opinion on the matter and i think without a question of power the question of the distribution of power the organization decision making within the black male it's a dispute about ideology and there may even be some nationalism and a source of wisdom about putting the nerves than scavenging multifaceted but to come back and to what i said about economic conditions in china he spoke with us about the great leap forward and the things that are to come as china is now doing economically this checkpoint what intelligence information about that joe statements here about the economy of mainland china are very conservative started body mentioned tremendous achievements

that he knows about having laid the foundation andy thank you back then the communist china is really in a very serious economic slump earlier estimate that the agricultural production of nineteen sixty three it's just about a load of nineteen fifty seven and that the industrial production was about the level of nineteen fifty eight and in the intervening time since those years six point seven million watch them slowly actual competence and in love that many parents say that the industrial the program is still going down because they had to cancel another to concentrate on agriculture or at least the fertilizer until after that and probably the

farm part of their economy is is slowly recovering from the great leap forward so to recap the terms of an industry the information that's a little bit and it may have made a lot of the progress in the last couple of months and i think it's in general of their statement and i'd say no and that this was something that i don't think that people in the west never go over the fact that economically because this is a question of human misery and i think that that eerie resonance that we know that if we take a nineteen year sentences of speech question of approaching the problem this passionately anyone and it has to and to

the economy of communist china is heading and about how fast as it's going to go through a development something like that of the soviet union for example at a comparable stage of its development thank you the racial men it's not an easy you can say that is that the communist country as diverse and i got in a communist

country can serve and nine that's permanent sentence for your nightstand and they are going on in the congo is that you serve he's being a little not want and coming program with their hearts and they have their own plan one last quick question do you think that china is going to be successful in its effort to use the issue of race as one of the major way other elements of its policy directed against the united states and it's going to be able to rally large numbers of non communist countries across the world on this very well i thank you go and this question

people in the vatican's suddenly loan requirements is going to be watching and in that direction truckloads and in places it's trying to citizens and equal opportunity in the troubles it was not because there's an effort to raise the weekend no fear that was reggie has one of the state department we have a lively clear cut issue here for an hour penalty has declined

tremendously john rice says that china is peaceful coexistence lot of those men says that it is the propagation of world communism by whatever means necessary the club when president of france recognized communist china the other day which of these two interpretations of china and its aims did he have in mind that would be peaceful or none of my estimate and when the president of the song that there is action can promote peace with respect implication of peaceful coexistence and unless history tends to change the term revolutionaries know with time wherever he appreciates the growth creates that china has a very pressing needs and it has to serve

those needs and two co exist for the time being that indicates what do you think yourself with the club do you think that with any predictable period of time where i couldn't see a repetition of things like the attack on in you know it's not only in that a president can china is returning someone to the bango spare nineteen fifty that just because i assumed names attached and hastert and traded as iceland itself politically and economically by its dispute with moscow that it has to present day my family aspect in order to get the things it means to show that it is back from asia that what do you think about this well i agree with the what was the club says in that most of what mr posen says it seems to me that there are chinese and asian president southeast asia in an attempt to gain as much as she can peacefully diffuse the asian oppressors the last few months we know reshaping mending fences among the communist party's of southeast asia

and india i think she's trying to operate a pistol in cambodia still have grave doubts it china's policy in north vietnam is necessarily a peaceful one i think that if the time comes for example we did stub of activity in south vietnam which is being talked about of a possible now china would indeed strike that i have pre supposing that the united states will continue to stand very strongly and very firmly against any moves by china when you say that the chinese are turning back to an internal matters listen to their image and that allows us to do is what appeared to be contradictory statements of secretary mcnamara as to what we might do in south vietnam in more completely are almost completely suppose were first completely and with respect great

is my my family there is a smart and aggressive policy is southeast asia's kids and i think that we at least most argue from some condition of strength them any kind of conference table and listening to such a position it's trying now i also think it's a very important part of people's lives in china was the real injection of uncertainty economic interesting because he apparently reform it really is and is not alone in this that there must be some kind of settlement because of thing cannot go on some kind of nicholas some to come back to hurt german life for a moment directly at the lens a real reactions <unk> interview with actions well this composer joe and i will only give interviews to people don't ask him any real quick questions lots of questions

conceivably big screen raised the question which is not easy to have a messy surgery and seventy people in the world today is the chinese award the man the city consulted state of third coast superman nineteen sixty three votes chinese gongs back to representatives of say they're the people really enjoyed it is an accurate picture of the earth to accept an extermination that if this was going to mean either defeat of imperialism when you have a whole series of chinese state its would say that when you're dealing with countries such as the united states the question of provocations letter writes quote unquote because you know from first principles that the capitalist system is bound to produce more integration hoover then last year in my first anti soviet state that's true and second does the chinese communist

activity but only when capitalism has been overthrown in the united states and other countries the use of the impossible and that is the soviet approach to imagine those things that when the race and racism among the statements of the chinese representatives of the afro asian countries and angelica internal economic issues you find it you should've asked about the of those contradictions production has gone up since it took to survive in spite of the conditions of a rather sad and his appoint a focus on taxation shows that the school was to have a system works of the government controls everything everything it makes no difference whether they i have based my money and take it back and incompetent or just a lesson that more positive statements had a population should understand that being deprived of the kingdom's own fitness but at present the second

most important for makeup of cultivated then i had a population and population is that knew about every vote yes last year and that how do you expect to get the chinese people of these boston or show when you have less than a quarter of an acre i did and i suppose you'd asked joe these questions but he was a magnificent ability of the system by these things but i think that their main natural expect from politicians run a political answers and i'm afraid that i would not anticipate john life acts as a of the situation inside turn one has to make the best of it gets our current low station in vladivostok mr cobb and we had very skimpy information we make the best of what we had not was it and i would say the same thing to own lives and views about the roots are

aluminum you can learn something completely in china today and you're probably on the chinese wealth and culminating at the koreans is a case in oregon section our own as ilana against him and especially in cities then in the position that i think to me is to find out what happened amazon of course it becomes an actual grenades set up philip coppens come back no to question american power seems to have been some of the points that he brought up and the united states could do you think that the united states is going to change its policy toward the company's china and shut i had no balance in because you give them about questions of the united states i believe in not change its policy programs china because it is tied by law to its present policy views of a promo so it has signed a treaty

and moreover there was a joint resolution passed through congress in general in nineteen fifty that the there's a ban on this very question that we shouldn't change as regards to the second part of your question that you should say yes we should there certain approaches that we could make to that time when we shall have relationships again mr osborne said that we have no intention of recognizing comes time but he didn't say never presumably that if this regime has not passed away some time in the future we shall have relationships and that approach must be named gradually add pierce me in campaign one big leap from greatly the chinese than say recognize china and expect to have good relations immediately thereafter it isn't that simple and we should start now that with respect to the matter of lifting travel restrictions and changing attitude toward trade some of the signs of my

attitude on the most basic questions in the swamps of the questions of recognition and the united their relationship with china to the united nations which the american people have heard it over and over again the basic issue seems to me is that the united states has a policy of economic and political quarantine and a policy that military quarantine of these policies justified should they be changed well that question to be very depressing about it was that it was this attitude that you didn't know anything you had gemini voting hours were very strong attacks on american and there's no attempt may about who's going to answer me now is saying he doesn't really believe this decision wasn't a basic problem of the added rival political fanatics boon to some extent i don't really believe that there's a regular nine served as an intelligent man eccentricities he looks much that when i was about seven years ago and i think

probably the other six pack think the dustbin disintegrating situation where he has been damaged but most inskeep is that respect the program i mean i take issue with the state and talks about the city of firmness and flexible a load of innovation amid contradictory terms and i don't agree with the policy has been given out as a defensive in france and britain having recognized candidate was one came after the korean war well we cannot sit back because of regression at the time of korea seemed to me to be highly inflexible thank them in the course known as the more established rather close relationship with germany and

with japan with him to the true and a longer good times now since the greener than yours is that question about that fanatics and how do you do with fanatics that the earth has a lot of i think the basic problem is that the traditions of the reasons he applied a much worse outcome i think what you want to do is somehow less vocal doesn't have an accomplice tribute to the chinese people that of the rest of the world oh my hands of the chinese communist leaders are ridiculous that job and i should be allowed to get away with these claims about spotting and it's raining so big union and china are the two major colonial past that china today in exchange out and debate areas were the notion

that the nation i think for the united states do the chinese empire of the soviet empire made perfectly clear that it that central asia the ire of the baltic states and poland that russia candidates that ignition that if it didn't have an effect in china does it have a big effect in conditions as it is in just skip chinese money that anything chavez is that the us and say we just fits in revenues the center of the city and they deepen that israeli rockets and the skin makes them think not sure they didn't have opportunities which are about the state of american policy makers judges congressmen so i've

been impressed that has happened with the frequency with which the things that we would like to say to people manage to get through roads back underground or as moses are i don't know sometimes i find really been beleaguered and under heavy censorship understand the united states we have any right to expect and it is the seventh and in an isolated country in china hasn't even often isolated as off we ought to do this i don't think for example where we have more chance to people really have no competition we have taken this decision and for the nuclear case because you have the very remarkable contrast between the land reform based on family farms in both in japan and in iraq which has been extremely successful raise production even the plan as a much less than having people

say this that they never really tried to put into question the people when south vietnam was that we were trying to appeal to the people that if you're a government which they felt was oppressive and didn't like was the only way to appeal directly to him that not succeeded that the collective taiwan to have a successful and foreign policy and we're going continue on this week that's right countries where you have a chinese saying they very often about like getting not nearly enough has been done to say if you look at the evidence of the country

mr reilly no and we're talking about the amount of the credit crunch effect would be to say to these people or right if you manage to make conditions in china so attractive that the people of iran really want to join them on their own democratic principles would have the right to carry the same economic issue one step further economic and political issue it is really hosted by major economic quarantines communist china at present we have such a policy with respect to the soviet union but it didn't work very well and many people are coming to think now that perhaps it wasn't such a good idea that as the situation developed inside the soviet union and economic only people became more conservative in that paved the way to the fall what about the economic quarantines respective communist china

is designed has late in less effective because of two main factors first communist china had a soviet russian other hand another socialist bass and richie could fall back mainly soviet russia there they have not completely broken up economic relations not really only absolute unbearable china is the american embargo and anything that they want and have money to pay for that and at most only that plants half a dozen other places they don't have confidence that we're doing is stopping merchants from selling and buying is a prosperous china a prosperous china and its people like a debate more dangerous or less dangerous to the united states lives less dangerous and eric rhoads well i would say that he that unless those of a fundamental change in

chinese communist policies a prosperous shadow that a prosperous china that have so many of the policies that advances that and i'd go back to the extremely different policy land reform and osha area i think he would say things but when you think about the problem of raising rates as an issue between communist china end and the economy improves ourselves as pretty dangerous businesses life marriage for us are dangerous dangerous for both of us in the sense that if you get race hatred on the loose it can take reasonable people's minds and grandchildren live in friend that's not right if you do a different aspect

very important nationalism was very important but that can work as much against the chinese when they try to establish their influence on one of those gigantic animals that exactly a success this raises the question of how the non aligned countries have taken this at the statements from have been floated a degree that there's an attempt of foreign ambassadors no factors said economic poverty and how they appeal to the emotions of people are starving homeless la have something that they can't supply emotions that they are ours in that regard because they don't have what it takes they don't have economic wealth if they're saying that the nonaligned world generally understands much better the whole situation with respect to the aims of china and the little islands in the primary and lebron james

then they realized because they know because the politicians enough about the politics to realize when somebody is trying to by dint of that particular bill floating human is the soviet union going to help the rest of the world in the balance of power so to speak and ladies of the communist china now there's i think gentlemen we've reached the point where we can turn this debate over to the american people on i'm a little hesitant to produce any conclusions at this stage of the game obviously they've got to be responsible for that and i would say that all of this action might say that the united states has got to learn how to be both first though and civilized at the same time to use air defenses firmly to stop aggression and do you is that my leadership not to drive china and its people back into frustration in isolation but to lead them into society

the pittsburgh the point is both this is at national educational

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