Washington Straight Talk; Lehrer/Humphrey

December 19th, 7th of the Humphrey. Based on your own experience, Senator, what advice would you give to Nelson Rockefeller today on how to be a vice president of the United States? Well, the very first bit of advice, and I don't know whether Mr. Rockefeller needs that, would be to remember that he is the vice president and not the president. That means that the policy ultimately must be stated by the president, and that the vice president has the opportunity to make his views heard or to express himself to the

president, to counsel with the president. But once that the decision is made, I would expect the vice president to be helpful to the president. I guess I call it loyalty. Is it a second rate, the grading job in your opinion? Not at all. Not at all. It's a high honor to be vice president of the United States. And the vice presidency, I think, has taken on new significance, let's say, in the last 25, or the last 40 years or so, ever since the time of Franklin Roosevelt. I think the vice presidency has grown. The vice president has things he can do. But he has to remember that what he does is essentially at the request of the president. Yeah, the vice presidency has very little statutory authority or constitutional authority. In fact, your only constitutional authority is to preside over the Senate, and in the case of a tie to be able to cast a vote to break that tie.

But you have many other duties now that have come to you as a result of some statute, some law. You are a member of the National Security Council, for example. There's the coordinator of many of the economic or what we call the war on poverty programs because I think that law is still on the books. You are a member of the Smithsonian Board of Regents. But the real work that you have is what the president asked you to do. And a vice president, his statute, depends on a great measure upon how much the president will ask you to do. Well, you know Nelson Rockefeller, you know President Ford, and you know the job of the vice presidency. How do you think that's going to turn out? How do you think President Ford will use Nelson Rockefeller? I think he'll call on him for a great deal of help. Nelson Rockefeller is an experienced man in public affairs. He brings with him a staff that has dealt with national issues, a staff that has been directing its attention for many years towards the quest of the presidency.

So these are people that will be highly qualified. I hope that the president will see fit to call upon Mr. Rockefeller to fill in for him, to fill in for the president in many assignments. Nelson Rockefeller can be a very good emissary abroad. And I've always felt that a president should use the vice president for a great deal of overseas assignment. We need the president to be at home administering this government, giving sense of direction to this government as much as possible. And the president of the United States should appear abroad only in selected and I think in very important occasions. But if the president will use his vice president, he can carry out the policy of the administration and do it with honor and distinction. After all the vice president is the second highest office in the land and the gift of the American people. Likewise, Mr. Ford, President Ford, undoubtedly will call upon Mr. Rockefeller to work with cabinet officers in a number of the domestic programs.

There's plenty of work to do. The president of the United States has tremendous responsibilities. And what he needs is a loyal partner. And someone who will recognize that he is a junior partner in the partnership. You can only have one president at a time. Well this junior partnership business, say Nelson Rockefeller as you also were very much a public figure in your own right and expressing opinions on public issues. How do you go about adjusting to the frustration of having to suddenly stop doing so while your vice president of the United States? Well you don't really stop doing so. You know I told some of my friends who were also critics that I would rather have ten minutes in the White House sitting face to face with the president expressing my point of view to him than to have two hours in front of the White House carrying a picket sign. Now some people think that the way that you are influential is to make public demonstration or a man like myself as a senator being able to publicly criticize or publicly propose

what your initiatives would be etc. That's important. Don't misunderstand me. It is important. But a vice president, if he has a good working relationship with the president, can sit down with him and say Mr. President, here's the way I see it, here's the way I read it, here's the way I've sensed the country to feel as I've traveled around the country. A vice president can move around the country a great deal and he should. And he should move in many circles, he should not get confined to one group. He ought to be the eyes and the ears in a sense for the president and his cabinet. I know that Mr. Rockefeller is a very active man. He's been an activist all of his public life. And he will find, of course, in the vice presidency some frustration to that activity. But it's not unbearable, not at all. Did you find it unbearable? No, not at all.

I have read so much about how demeaning the job is and that the vice presidency has been the target of a good deal of editorial comment and jokes. And in the past there was some reason to do this, but I want to keep one to keep in mind one thing, that it is like a sort of being a reserve quarterback. And once in a while the reserve quarterback is needed and no team ever goes into the field to ever win a Super Bowl without a good reserve quarterback to put it in the parlance of our time. You need a man in the vice presidency that has the capability of being the president of the United States. And the man who is vice president needs to understand that he is to prepare himself for that possibility. That means he must understand the national budget. It means he must be very intimately acquainted with national security and all the requirements of national security. A good vice president will be in close contact with the Congress of the United States. Congressmen and senators cannot always see the president.

The president doesn't have time for all of that. He can see many of them and he should, he should have an open door policy. I think President Ford has that. That's one of his fine qualities. But the vice president will have time to be on Capitol Hill. And I suggest to the vice president that he give time to Capitol Hill. It's more important to be at Capitol Hill than it is at some reception or some cocktail party. Much more important to be at Capitol Hill than it is over in the executive office building. Because the government of the United States needs coordination. The president is down there on one end of Pennsylvania Avenue. We're up here on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue. And it is the vice president who can be helpful as the presiding officer of the Senate. Therefore, partly executive, partly a legislative and character, he can be helpful in bringing the Senate and the House of Representatives in closer touch with the presidency. I think this is his most important role. Do you think the Constitution should be changed to give the president, I mean the vice president, more statutory responsibility and authority, or do you like the arrangement the way it

is now? I think the arrangement the way it is now is proper. And I believe we need the office of the vice presidency. I've read the articles by Dr. Slesinger and others that we ought to abolish the office. I don't think so at all. I believe that the American people, the respective vice president that will do his job. And the president that wants to make use of a vice president, like a cabinet officer, can be confined in the vice president a great deal of help. Remember that the vice president is just a notch above on protocols, so to speak, any cabinet officer. So if the president wants to coordinate, let's say, two or three departments of government, more succinctly or more tightly, he can assign that function to the vice president of the United States. And all the president needs to tell the cabinet is, look, I have appointed, I've asked the vice president to coordinate these activities. It's very difficult to do that with another cabinet officer. But it's always up to the whim or the desire of the president, and you think that's the

way it should be. Yes, I think so, because the president is the chief of state, he is the chief administrative officer of the government, and I don't think you ought to try to divide up that authority. What do you think about the 25th Amendment and how it has worked in terms of selecting vice presidents? Well, on balance fairly well, I guess what I would like to see, however, is when there is a vacancy in the office, as far ahead as before, another election, that we might have, we might set a time for an interim election, so to speak. Yes. However, let's say, for example, that you need a vice president six months before, in the end of a president's term, then I think the appointment process, such as we go through now, is desirable. I'll say this, that whoever has been nominated as vice president of the 25th Amendment, has had the more careful examination than anybody that ran for office. Senator, thank you very much. Thank you.