1974 Nixon Impeachment Hearings; 1974-07-27; Reel 2 of 4

the pope and if the burden of proving that the president personally acted to corrupt the new administration of justice i intensely engaging in a plan or design of a course of conduct or a plan which was intentionally designed to obstruct justice is that a fair statement what i am can buy the amendment is to suggest that richard m nixon if it can be shown in the summer and now if he can be held account in the senate that time he used his powers of high office engage personally and through his subordinates and agents in a course of conduct a plan designed to delay impede and obstruct obstruct the investigation of such unlawful entry to cover up conceal and protect those responsible and to conceal existence and scope of other unlawful covert activities other words the words speak for themselves

well i'm running out of time i want to tear up the question however of the conduct of his aides in order to have this to be the president that it would require i am sure that it at least you have knowledge of the activity or that he instructed them with the requisite intent to obstruct justice i would answer the gentleman by saying it's the language still speaks for itself but it is lively that to hold richard nixon to account and to remove him from office it must be proven that he has committed a serious offense serious enough for which he should be removed from office pia directed something murphy participated in something or if he was involved in something that was clearly illicit if he falsely

misled the american people pretty obstructed justice or impeded justice or interfered with the new administration of justice or if he abused the power such as the sensitive agencies is the irs will that i think he meant i think that's what is going to be held to account for there's little time left to pursue under the policy that was that no member could preserve any time of the gentleman is seeking more time you can the question of this concern has already been recognized once i am and i appreciate the chair if i could have it out like there's been no room for mr sarbanes a question without objection thank you mr chairman i like that the gentleman as do you subscribe to mr railsback says explanation of the meaning of his

amendment as too responsibility the president for third person's actions or do you still feel that his amendment will support your own theory on that subject is announced value yesterday well as i understood the last response which the gentleman from illinois mr railsback gave i thought that was it at a proper elaboration of his amendment as i understand it part of what we've been discussing is this whole concept of that of the madison superintendents the theory and i think this is very clear with respect for that opposition that proposition is not contained in this article as a potential promise i understand your answer then you feel that mr railsback is very thin or it's very well iran has advanced before the event was i like i must confess to the gentleman from indiana that i did not favor close attention to the full colloquy between mr

railsback a mr wiggins that i should have in order to respond defensively to the question that is just so many and i apologize for that but i it is my impression that the last response which i ever mr railsback give all see it at a satisfactory elaboration of this amendment then again that night if you are together with our years together with you why a sense i didn't like your version very well before i'm not persuaded that is much different than the question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from illinois was in favor of the amendment please signify by saying ah those olive oil the eyes peering out at the eyes out of the amendment is agreed to the

the gentleman from illinois i have they are in london forming a moment if i can kennedy right on page one line the scene thus our main substantive beginning at the third paragraph strikeout the following the names used to implement as paulson having clear that one or more of the following an uncertain though they're of the following new language the names used to implement this course of conduct or plan included one or more of the following which

speaks for itself from labor the question is an imminent threat when all those in favor please say i want to tell you guys have a new mandate has agreed to recognize the committee members are now voting on a series of amendments to the first proposed article of impeachment in a moment the congressman will return to their debate over whether the first impeachment article is specific in spelling out the charges against the president and tax videotape coverage of the house judiciary committee's impeachment that they will continue as your groceries pbs republic broadcasting service fb the country washington week in review analyzes the presidency yell i think he doesn't think that self

delusion but i think that anyone having only the washington week in review reports it's becoming increasingly doubtful whether the senate will have time this year to try the impeachment trial washington week in review discusses foreign affairs isn't there goes up and optimism as he serves as a deal and the settings with moderator paula do washington week in review lots of the major national and international events of the week from washington and practice washington week in review raw the puppeteers by the peak

secrets be nico the peak oh no it's

b and blacks coverage of the house judiciary committee's impeachment debate continues as we go back to the hearings democrat water flowers is about to move to strike another section from the first impeachment articles i recognize the gentleman from alabama with flower like i'm a chairman of a moment where this medium and then as the flowers that this is the moment to imagine the list of amendments strike some

two of the sarbanes substitute a moment i don't know where that i will be unable to explain what a mainstream r kelly they're fully understand mr franco not an ad for a matter of the law as a device to elicit from members of the panel or staff for specifics of what charges what information what evidence do we have that would come under the aircraft who are we capable of proving amazing moment the allegations of progress imperative to which is always true of the article one of the sarbanes of subtlety i think that the proof aspect of it is vitally important and i think that

the comments late last evening as to the notice that the president is entitled to that this will likewise sort of vital function well along those lines so unlike his motion strike and i asked by aftermath of the war or any number of the committee and thirty u bacon vive la with no evidence to support this allegation and in support of the la scene with corn are you know in all due respect it should be the gentleman that has in his mind now the empathy shouldn't be thinking of we're about ready to vote and they indicated that apparently a tendency to vote on what you have in your mind tell us what you're thinking about to justify this time reefers and that will strike so they're not then supporters of her

young mind thank you and won't lend them for making this motion that will come in the center and court making a similar motion last evening and to share the belief that fundamental fairness require is that we articulate er facts on which the house friends rely on someone and votes to take this medicine at the trial that was to lead amid an awfully impressive than forty points last night by beating and some emotion of evidence he stacked up those eighty nine thousand pages of documents that we receive during the past six months because of the house i don't know that most members every ten days we have an obligation to pinpoint or the president but only half of the members of the schoolhouse exact fact that would be the end of it i sort of that i think that the following fact there should be included that will be included in this particular and some character almost immediately after the watergate break in

information and evidence regarding illegal activities began flowing into the white house almost without any exception this information was withheld from the investigations specifically by june nineteen nineteen seventy two john ehrlichman the president had placed in charge of instigating watergate for the white house had learned that mr libby was involved in the outbreak and then it was the crp committee to reelect operation joe haldeman mitchell mr martin so the rule were also aware of this information specifically these facts were withheld an attorney general and other investigators same time that he was retained well over a week as counsel for the finance committee to re elect president even up in the middle of his own pocket specifically by june twenty nineteen seventy two important physical evidence had turned up within the white house with at the breaking these documents include it mr levinthal the plants to grow these activities other

political intelligence activities located installments of those files white house telephone directory containing howard hands named hansen on the record showing the plant was not terminated from the white house payroll officially none of these documents were turned over to investigators memoranda from palin's office or shredded telephone directory was change in employment records were all for june nineteenth i think the important to recall that the president spoke of mr colson to determine what counts status was on june twenty eight which also take and remind ourselves that a conversation with health minister called a minister observers to haldeman the president during which they discuss the watergate break in eighteen a half minutes of which have been erased on june flooding a phone call was placed by the president mr mitchell on the phone that was not hooked up to a tape recording system but which the president dictated a memorandum turns out that evening during that and that memorandum was contained the recitation by mr mitchell that he

apologize to the president the watergate saying he was sorry and not better police his men mitchell's acknowledgment that his men were involved was not passed along to investigators you'll recall that the president also stated publicly that mitchell statement that there was no legal or ethical responsibility for the break in and the white house of the material act was endorsed as of june twenty second specifically on june twenty third nineteen seventy two all the men on the night of the president's direction with the head of the fbi and cia patrick gray waters despite the fact that halderman ehrlichman were aware that there was a crp involvement in the watergate break in in october's to mr gray waters rather they suggested that the spy helms as assurances that there was no cia involvement further fbi investigations of the bargain might uncover cia any activities on june twenty eight nineteen seventy two women being delivered certain documents from his defense say to the fbi the fbi director gray

specifically from alabama as german i am or pregnant and the law are you like i'm doing referring to june twenty eight and being safe i told him that although the white house want to say that had turned everything from ponce over to the fbi documents quote should never see the light of day great need of this would destroy the documents specifically on june sergeant life vest nineteen seventy two mitchell was interviewed by fbi agents investigating the watergate break in or mitchell has admitted that he had been told of libya's involvement did not give this information over to the agents specifically john dean reported that halderman ehrlichman the payments to the watergate defendants

in the summer of seventy two they made through to combat the president's personal journey specifically by the middle of september was to come out and delivered hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars in cash to the defendants or their attorneys during the summer of nineteen seventy two dean others in the white house were told or perjury false statements by magruder and porter this information was also with help from proper investigative authorities also call your attention to the dorms jenner runs the committee on september fifteen nineteen seventy two the president had a conversation with me during which time he promised again that he have the average of unplugging the leaves that were springing up here it's bringing up there specifically on march thirty nineteen seventy three the president was told that was to spawn had lied to investigators specifically the president bears the ultimate responsibility for the enforcement of our laws did not report this to the attorney general to the director of the fbi on march twenty one nineteen seventy three the president was told of perjury

by magruder and order before the wet wanted a grand jury specifically the president did not directly report this to the attorney general or the director of the fbi specifically john dingell the president of the complicity of his associates the watergate break in and cover up on march twenty ones seventy three march twenty second nineteen seventy three president telephoned attorney general findings during the course of a meeting with all the money ehrlichman mitchell and teen specifically the president only instructed findings to begin working with senator howard baker for the president's position with respect to the upcoming hearings before the senate select committee march twenty third nineteen seventy three and march twenty five nineteen seventy three president spoke by telephone with attorney general findings specifically the president did not disclose any of the relevant material information which he possessed respect to the watergate matter the attorney general at any time in the course of these conversations on march twenty three nineteen seventy three president telephoned acting director l patrick gray

specifically the president or gray that he was aware of the beating the great had taken during the confirmation hearings he believed to be unfair specifically monied gray that he had told renee earlier to conduct a thorough aggressive investigation specifically the president did not tell great information he had received funding on march twenty one nineteen seventy three or any of the other relevant and material information that he had in his possession specifically once again on april fifteen nineteen seventy three the president met with attorney general findings are reported to the president that the prosecutors had evidence implicating the tonight show theme alderman ehrlichman magruder and paulson and others in the watergate matter specifically the president did not talk findings that he had previously been given this information by doing specifically on april fifteen nineteen seventy three the president met with leaders in for the report on the information prosecutors have been doing mcgruder president did not disclose to peterson the

information they're being discussed with the president on march twenty one nineteen seventy three in addition i would also point out to my colleagues the president told us to peace and to stay away from the brake and dr feelings office because it is a matter of national security april twenty seven twenty six nineteen seventy three autonomous and the white house tapes to ascertain the contents of the march twenty ones seventy three conversation among the president all the mundane neither the existence of these tapes nor the fact of haldeman's having listened to them wherever revealed the proper investigating authorities even that mr holman was then i suspect very much under investigation finally between april fifteen seventy three and april thirtieth the president spoke at least twenty seven occasions mr peterson regarding the justice department's watergate investigation president did not inform peterson the white house taping system or any of the information he had received from white house official regarding their criminal involvement in the watergate matter

that includes a cease fire may i say to my friend from alabama if you were to stand on your head do the fanciest of tricks you have twelve votes no more and there is no point and the continuation of this kind of an argument i really little my heart which you're going to have a far better form one another that over in the house where we post it so please let's not bore the american public rehashing of what we heard we went through this for many hours yesterday and the local ruler if they were keeping the sarbanes substitute as it is you've got twenty seven votes let's go on a lot of its ideal bagpiper is

to recognize that in maryland with the chairman of the things that my good friend from new jersey mr salmon scary world will shortz the subjects i say is timely subject of college yesterday to belabor arguments about the need for a specificity now he convinced the number of us but he's right we should have specificity so what were involved in now is not an effort to embellish or exaggerate the narrative material which almost all of us are familiar with in a general way we're trying to be responsible and specifically support every item in the articles of impeachment with knots opposition not rumor what specific facts to support those charges i would would have thought that the gentleman from new jersey would applaud this effort because of his eloquence yesterday he convinced us of the rightness of his

arguments so i'm very surprised now that he's saying that there were just wasting our time are you both gentleman from new jersey the generous incentives name are used for well i'm certainly not carrying water on both shoulders what you're doing today is not any more definitive to date in a way he has to be crazy or not adding one blasted word of clarification to the articles of impeachment all you're doing is rehashing the same manner that the public was exposed to yesterday where does an ounce and this and what i think we should say well i would say the gentleman i think the reason facing today is strikingly similar to me these statements made yesterday to which i personally took exception i think that we should stick specifically to the facts and the evidence and i think that that's what has

been evolving here today we'll to my other friend from new jersey at the iq of wielding that would say that they're the sandman have stated the position that i had intended to stay a specific point is this what we have asked for and what he's asked for it is including the allegations in the articles of impeachment that we have a recitation of facts or well and going on the objection to what i'm saying find the facts or evidence about allegations that want to be included in the article the of impeachment not a recitation here if you want to as they terrify but these are the allegations that the allegations in the article and the widow harding not sit so the body knows how to defend our web site our state and our friend from new jersey

that he is free to offer amendments to the sarbanes substitute or to the donahue resolution concerning in the category specificity to use one word that he desires we have advice from our expert council that it's not necessarily it's my own feeling is not necessary to have it in the impeachment resolution itself although i do agree that we have a responsibility to shore up the allegations in the impeachment resolution with factual evidence are immature and that's the effort which one are you as to the war i'm wondering if the staff pursuant to our discussion just today is preparing dinner in effect asked local papers you are uncertainties of any

specific references to the items really frankly mr chairman do agree with mr sandman that perhaps this is always to time in other words have a vote and the rest of the particulars which i think is going to be some of us anyway as it is it not for approval or disapproval for longer perhaps this shouldn't be done in a minimal way so that we can move on from indiana and then the general mississippi i'm on the

amendment says that one quick question what do we get that built for his material as part of these bulls indiana thank you mr chairman members of the committee and then a scenario you say they were by all those who are against specificity yesterday want to re cited today all we have not put it in the charges is kind of interesting but aside from that is sort of refreshing to talk a little bit about the facts i listened carefully to my good friend from a mr conte and he says for a sous vide you ninety eight the only one and learn that lady was involved in ehrlichman

tell the president he learned there's no evidence he ever get it lady tell a president certainly not that ellman says mitchell and learn something and natural talent roster already learned no evidence of it whatsoever of that time you don't get anything involving the president in that gentleman's recycle go pretty far down the line down the first thing you get about the president is the statement that month email on a bit about that report said he was sorry and discipline is manning better is that news mccourt was one is a man and a chord was in jail ever now i want you right now with mitchell of mitchell report that niche joe mccarthy was mitchell's ma'am michel knew my part was arrested you don't have to reveal anything that wasn't in the newspapers and we said he was sorry and discipline that people only know even in talking about record

there is no significance to iraq now you talk about the talk about combat you talk about mitchell you talk about her appointment already get the president let me as you a question hoot and a motive to cover anything up one is that there isn't any evidence at all that the president knew anything about this watergate break in ahead of time i think we're all pretty well agreed on that now it happens there's a motive to cover up the worst thing that can happen the president is to lose an election which by that and he knew he could lose no matter what he did because you gentleman over there are gonna handed to him by mcgovern being obviously the successful candidate by that that is who you need to worry about that but right now they have something to worry about because he was involved in the plumbers and he was involved in the field in breakin and he knew if you started to look in the watergate and you've found out that these boys

have been in the plumbers and they'd been on in california it was likely to get back to here michel i have something to worry about because he had known about the surveillance plans for the democratic committee and according to some of the evidence that rotated a character all the money didn't have quite as much money do have something to worry about because he had these political report and he had three and fifty thousand dollars a year to play with and he had some things to be concerned about but about prayer that point the president really has not been so why should he be bothered to cover up our eye you go down the line a little bit further the revelers nothing till march twenty first year maybe a little bit on march thirteenth now it says he's talking appears and it doesn't tell him what he learned on march twenty for well

from april six on the president and pearson both knew they'd be singing like a canary united states attorney i was i understand between him and he was the state's evidence they were talking back and forth the years and says don't fiery me out because i need this fella i may want to give him immunity and so on and so forth so many major the president detailed peterson anything about what he was saying at that time the us attorney was given everything he was saying if you start talking about the fact that your start cleaning the fact you can't hold any much in yemen against the prevalence of piping in the worst possible construction on everything that happened why no identities entirely the benefit of doubt and have probably one of the reasons why we haven't had more specificity and remember by april thirty all these wrongdoers are cleaned out of the white house and law

and they'd been prosecuted and they're in jail and that some of that everybody goes up in the senate as vital organs on admiral blair then began to say even if we can't adequately charge like any decent yard word what we're gonna be talking about on this the floor and on down the line and in the senate if he ever get there because i'm already analyzing the more you're gonna find out what how weak this gate is on the phone the gentleman statement of the gentlemen that was just made and he talks in canada repeatedly about the life of direct evidence talks about circumstantial evidence and how they get is an unlikely to record this point some of the cases of direct evidence that we have that one plays number of specific examples

where there's direct evidence of the knowledge of participation by president some of these have been repeatedly for just a few minutes to guatemala specifically cause reported that on june seventeenth at when the president first learned of the break in if you're an ashtray across the room as direct evidence the president know that either crp or white house persons warren faulk specifically on june twentieth after three days of constant activity by the president's principal assistance for women met with the president discussed that the president thought should be done about the watergate ornaments veggie notes show the president decided that they should be attacked for diversion this tape was intentionally destroyed and there's direct evidence the president was unlocked there's also evidence that he must've really the tape was incriminating specifically on june twentieth the president had a conversation with with mitchell president noted that the bulk of this conversation the state about the presidents recollection show that the president knew that crp had a

relationship with a burger mitchell apologize for not supervising his men because the matter had not been handled properly on june twentieth mitchell issued a forced press release denying any crp involvement the president because of his conversation with mitchell had to know this to be forced notwithstanding this fight the president made a statement to the press which told the public but what john and mitchel had said was true says direct evidence to the president's active participation and leadership on june thirtieth the president michel suleiman had a conversation about what makes sense for mitchell to resign this conversation discloses that both for them and the president believe that more things might surface and watergate and now was the time for mitchell to leave before they did on july sixth the president failed to make any inquiry into pat gray is warning that his aides were morally willingham it's direct evidence of the president's unwillingness to have their cover up activities brought to light july eighth without any conceivable rational basis for days so he discussed with her working on the

beach in key biscayne where the clemency should be offered that the persons involved in watergate this conversation can make no sense of almost the president was involved in making decisions relating to conceal of the watergate on august twenty nine the president made a false press release about the fact that pope john dean parker greater remaking investigations dean at the white house and a greater a crp no investigation had in fact been neighborly the organization september fifteenth the president's average on the napoleon had done a good job of giving directions to how to stop we hadn't committee from being affected i think no one's german but these are just some of the cases were present a direct knowledge participation and direction i recognize the gentleman got up one day but chairman apollo the mall can strike but i'm not going to really at this long list of evidence really matter which is the way they presented which i think we all know almost a year but i do wonder

responded again to the comments the arguments is tinged with german from indiana mr bennett who seems to continually feel that there's no evidence that point directly in the mouth for president richard m nixon i respectfully suggest that we would just go to the president's own a transcript of september fifteen nineteen seventy two and apple really has been read time and time again but you will remember the talking with john dean that afternoon when john dean came back from the court house he complimented sean dean on the fact that appear that time at least lina had been very skillful he put his fingers in the dike you stop bali ed felten contain the investigation through the five actual burgers in the two third reporters the leaders of that pack

living and other over words coming out of the mouth of the president of the united states in the oval office the state of government can you tell me that he didn't know what he was talking about i did not i do not you know what he was talking about that in itself is an impeachable situation he's certainly ought to know what he's talking about when he uses that lambert let's go on and i'm not going on the thurber were twenty one means unity march twenty one on february twenty eight nineteen hundred and seventy three other transcript from the president being in the present or talking with a talking about the usual thing the watergate cover on this time of money money spell about love to pronounce the barn a money ever gotten a lot of money here you're talking about paying off these people who were not supposed to break who are not supposed to explain

their participation in the watergate unlawful entry and in the cover up that followed and who we talking about of course the four cubans but in addition a card and far more importantly eat our time the water they say they're talking about herb kalmbach and there was a much you the person if i ever saw and if anybody were to his testimony to a mammoth hearts go out to a man who is you know a beautiful mornin to the other but her had been calling to raise the money for beef burgers and the president a little bit worried la times been running stories on on bach and so forth and it's been getting a little thin perhaps but being said not are tough now is ready you gonna go through is hunkered down in his reddit analysts are not worried president yet oh well it'll be hard for the president of the art form because you get out of our time

whether get out about time what else was there except the payments appear that time of something like two hundred thousand dollars the province that i suppose the big thing is the financing transaction they'll go after that however when he got out of the bank of mexico and so forth i kind of stuff and of course been confirmed i hear in february of nineteen seventy three yeses on march twenty one you know on march twenty one the president admits he was finally fall all about on march twenty one dawn broke all at once he was told about watergate but here on february twenty eight through some type of prognostication he's discussing the financing transaction which is a good friend and loyal friend many years her palm bark was used to raise money and move along the way on march twenty one i'm not going to repeat this conversation for march twenty one a friend of the united states speaking from the oval office told haldeman

and john been a john and the right plan before the election he can change it all and now we got to have a new plan from here on out that's march twenty one and you say the president did not know what he was talking about and again on march twenty two just the next day after having known after having known about these activities since at least june seventeenth and out of his own mouth having known about them since june third september fifteen he's talking with paul its chief executive officer for law enforcement the attorney general of the united states richard nixon president talking to the attorney general of the united states mr klein beans and he didn't tell him one word about the illegal acts from california has expired the resolution that it we adjourned late last night

some type of vague understanding that the borders of medical impeachment members of the staff and other interests committee members would get together possibly of mercer it's a cold day today to work out the specific details in support of paragraphs of article one but as is often business committee it signals changer as the moment go by that hasn't happened i understand now that there is a backup article mr doerr based on specifications the back of the cell that has been made available to certain members of this committee is that what you're working on all of these articles are prepared kennedy be made available to all members of those familiar to the minority staff has been repaired but those are

certainly years the request a particular members of the president chairman and chairman certainly seems to leave a secure should be available numbers directly is that there will be a certain intellect i think the tillman revealing i've been quite interested in the various and repeated mentions the ashtray being fought across california so most yamamoto reserve few minutes a somewhat it and offer amendments to ensure that we include the prose is drawing on a straight and people that i don't understand the significance of this asteroid and wife being repeatedly mentioned atlanta gentleman speaking from maine most interesting

an undercover informant but there are several items as you all that are built to be rebutted if i could have the advantage of having this material and the specifics that some of the water it would be very helpful so that we can debate the specifics on what's being brought up in support of these various sections are urged bp admitted that after davis' opportunity in many areas that were meant to nothing again it's that leads to actions that are being referred to not the person's salary emphasize again the line has got to be brought to the president and we cannot and the film on the basis of is a fact that they couldn't get a gentleman from ohio but last night the fraud and i discussed his suggestion that the

at least the members of the committee have before them a case that a memorandum prepared by the staff setting forth the precise evidence that that feels support for each one of the paragraphs of this article of impeachment and i do think that that would be a very worthwhile thing and i understand that the staff has not yet had an opportunity to put the evidence in a definitive form and the pacific you know that the purpose of the discussion hears to get before us for purposes of debate the year the evidence that we believe those who support this article believe supports the article and that's the purpose of this discussion now i'd just like to fill in a couple of items here that have been touched on by a gentleman from maine down from california but that it seems to me ought to

be allowed a little bit more our reference was made to the fact that on june the twenty thirteen mr haldeman and mr erlichman that the present president's direction with the head of the fbi and the deputy director of the cia patrick gray in vernon water but i think that we ought to get a little more information and identity before i saw that oh i remember that the risk that the link between the material like the president and the year and they break in burger's became more imminent a couple of days after the break in by june twenty second most degraded and for mr bean that the one hundred dollar bills and then laurie traister mr barker bank on florida and the fbi to interview

and on june twenty third arrested being reported this information minister called a month who immediately reported to the president so they're there's no doubt that the president knows about that and its also undisputed that on june twenty third the president directed mr haldeman and mr erlichman you made with director helms of the fbi and mr wallace and express white house concerns about mr wallace to meet with gray and communicate those concerns to hear about what were those concerns mr haldeman almost ehrlichman who told mr helms mr gray that the fbi investigation was leading to important people and that it was the president's wage because an fbi investigation in mexico might uncover cia activities or asset mr waller suggests that mr gray that the fbi should not pursue the matter now the

facts are these that mr helms said that there was no fbi problem in mexico a cia problem mexico that it was not involved in this at all and secondly the fact is that mr erlichman all the ap poll mr gray not to keep the investigation the way from the cia but to limit it to the five man who had been arrested in the break in and other words keep it away from the rest of the world i'm really up to the meeting with mr haldeman and mr wittman mr walters met with mr gray and expressed his concerns and mr gray agreed to opera hall up the fbi investigation into the mexican connection and that that's where it's going for about another ten days until finally mr gray mr wallace came or c mr gray because mr grey yeah that there was a put it in writing at that

point the cia said we can't put in writing and mr walters said that the cia was being used and so it was the fbi now it's gone to the us later in the summer of nineteen seventy two during the nights are nineteen seventy two ms didion others were told by the fbi of the perjury and false statements i'm esther magruder and mr porter was this information given to the authorities not all why wasn't i think it's reasonable to infer that this was part of the containment plan that the president later congratulated mr dean for the town and for iowans in california is doing and it really right alignment of sarbanes substitute in some paragraph too that some paragraph is directed to the withholding of

information by the president and i show direct my mom i remarked that some paragraph only at the outset mr chairman less reflective what happened just a few moments ago i think that we have been down absolutely that we're talking about presidential misconduct and not the knowledge we act of other unless they were known to the president much of the material recited to us in support of some paragraph true or not the act of the president's all but rather the acts of others and i'm willing to concede that there's plenty of misdeeds by others but unless we attribute them to the president by the evidence they're not relevant to this case the evidence of presidential action commences presidential knowledge comments is on march the twenty first before i mentioned that let's

reflect about withholding prior to that time on september the fifteenth john dean was up to his elbows in money payments we all know that the d effect did he disclose anything about that and the president in so far as our evidence is a concern on the conversations of september the fifteenth did he give the president any information at that time upon which the president that and the answer is no what about february twenty eight john dean is deeply involved in a criminal conspiracy to obstruct justice according to john dean but what did he tell the president speaking of withholding on the twentieth day of february absolutely nothing what about now the thirteenth day of march the next a conversation with the well is one of seven through i will march through these are just simply emphasize that there was some withholding here withholding by john dean

of information in his position from the president upon which the president might have acted and that information's been conveyed to you know i don't think i would have the time the conversation of the twenty first has to be read in its totality morning and afternoon and the full context of those remarks after the understudy i suggest to my colleagues that the player thrusts of the afternoon conversation was that all of this in from nation have to be presented to a grand jury that was a presidential decision yet many comments indicating that that is his preferred course of action inconsistent with the concept of withholding on the twenty seventh day of march the president specifically sought out as an option the appointment of a special prosecutor to hear all of these factual allegations of john d you recall he said willette judge the wreck or appoint a special

prosecutor and say judge lets bowl those were the president's words that option was rejected not to cover up but rather was rejected at the instance and request of henry leaders who thought that it would cast unfairly upon the ability of the department of justice you recall that on the twenty seventh of march or thereabouts the president announced as his policy inconsistent with this with all in concept that everybody would go to the grand jury and testify bully without claiming any privilege you recall that in the first week of april when john dean was contemplating going to the united states attorneys' the president's instruction to john dean was doll why john tell the truth when you go before the grand jury before the us attorneys now that's an important event ladies and gentleman presidential direct knowledge of that funding was going to tell his story and was in fact telling his story to the us attorneys financing in the first week in april solos

mcgruder those facts were known to the president now that the pro thereafter when the president is a lead to have withheld information from henry peterson the head of the criminal division he is withholding information according to the argument which peterson knows already by reason of the revelations of john dean and mcgruder before the grand jury in terms of withholding information ladies and gentlemen recall that this president made a special effort to get john mitchell the big enchilada were to come forward and testify that really fully and very before a grand jury this gentleman the gentleman from california well i'm a gemini new substance in the desert in the desert

thank you i'd like to respond to some of the points made by the distinguished gentleman from california mr wade with wiggins mentioned that on march thirteen mr dean inform the president about certain of perjury that have been committed by mr strong i i don't think i need to read all the transcript about them i'd simply point out that you're being told president withdraw knew about watergate and yet he was quote up with nails and that he is going to go on a grand jury and say again that stonewall and say i don't know anything about what you're talking about is already done it twice as you know with being told the president and the president says yes i guess he should show indian interests are wide world we can't call that justice can we are do you justify him being said well it's a personal loyalty within president goes on says lobby ma'am what's the problem and

bob cases and it's not that bobby hall i'm not shape and then the strongest ron work for him although and the president says who knew better magruder and beans as well magruder and it presents as i see other week blank for bobby magruder to be having hired him so for now this is on the thirteenth before almost a week before the famous march twenty one meeting with the president right up rise up and righteous indignation as we should have mr mcclain it's out right now all i'm in here and we'll get them on the carpet now have the attorney general or two that's ake thereafter to consider what we do if we were in the president's shoes isn't that what any law abiding chief executive ought to do what he did nothing now on the twenty four words mr allen i'm going to skip over that on on that later on mr dean told the president

about that the perjury magruder and poor and the president did nothing about that but then we get to the twenty four hour on the night of the twenty first after the two meetings with mr dean the president dictated his recollection of events that day and he said that being inauthentic about it said that being felt he was criminally liable for the action and for taking care of the defendants that the president's own word and that magruder would bring home and now if he felt and saw himself would go down and that a hunt wasn't paid he would say things that would be very detrimental to cold and that michel wasn't about now what that mr brennan what the president united states do the next day did he go to the attorney general and fellow lawless no we held a meeting with mitchell being in parliament and ehrlichman to discuss the very crimes that mr dean had already implicated the men and the purpose of the discussion what's

the container and fair the president's last words were actually criticized president general eisenhower because all i cared about was being played he said but i don't look at it that way that's the thing i'm really concerned with we're going to protect our our people if we can apparently the justice department was not part of our people because during the course of that meeting he called the attorney general ended he tell him about these crimes had been revealed about it cause they know all he told attorney general began working with senator baker for the president's position and the urban committee hearing not just seems to me that if we really wanted to turn the matter over the law party the next day would have taken epic about calling the attorney general the united states and the german said that her journey general doing our duty but he did not do that and i'd be interested to read and what you have to say about that you know you know i can't you know help

the previous question i know that we've got a great show oliver know just to figure out a way to speed up this process we're going to take a short break and facts videotape coverage of the house judiciary committee impeachment debate will continue sharp groceries pbs public broadcasting service being eerie

sound familiar to me sixty six is an exchange it's both fb it's been leaking to

pass but it's been i mean winning film festival and stan vanderbeek the peak it's

been judiciary committee's impeachment inquiry as we go back to the hearings the debate is about to move to another paragraph of the cover up charge in a row on the water in it gentlemen it's

been known as the flowers grow three of these are very subtle we're sitting on this holiday as unanimous consent that moment limited deployment without getting ten minutes to three well proponents of the supper i grew up in to those who oppose it with that direction so oder and as the challenges parents the gentlemen's proposition than that those who would seek to be recognized to speak in opposition to the amendment and i started in the johnny side would be recognized as opponents or problems with my intention of cheering without objection

like you've listened by the committee for this war we my expeditions would go along with the consideration i have a talk with the gentleman from virginia mr butler about this particular also paragraph and i would call you a hammock this plan as i believe he has some material too specifically we are concerned at the moment with some paragraph three you'll recall that the article one is directed to a course of conduct all planned is that what by the president designed to obstruct justice and that the various in addition to that they've fallen paragraph which has the means used to implement this plan including one or more of the following and there's deals with paragraph three of the following which concerns itself with approving condoning

acquiescing in and counseling witnesses with respect the beginning of false or misleading statements lawfully authorized investigative officers and employees of the united states and also misleading testimony and beauty as beauty judicial and congressional proceedings but those moments are some of the specifics some forty of the article i was tested in this regard the young staff which are helped us in preparation of this memorandum an improvement in this morning on a button down from wisconsin specifically all about june twenty eight nineteen seventy two yemen who were met with crp director of scheduling for him and ask him to prevent false testimony concerning the purposes oh it has had been distributed to live in libby on july nineteen and twenty respectively or emily foster told fbi agents that the funds obtained by lady from crp or for illegal intelligence

gathering specifically own almost than porter testified falsely before the watergate grand jury as to the purpose of a hundred and ninety nine thousand dollars in cash specifically own almost a team of robot after discussing his false story about the lilly money testified falsely before the watergate grand jury specifically on september twelve and thirteen my brother met with mitchell and the plan they fall story regarding certain beings among mitchell magruder dinner lady in early nineteen seventy two specifically magruder thereafter testified falsely about the meetings before the watergate grand jury not a direct your attention paid at six o'clock transcript joe's they don't want any wind during this morning with meeting with being in the president was told of the country by both were brutal and four i don't the link on top of page eighty seven the

president said ruinous deals with something that preceded apollo argument that we talked about rachel and then being said i don't know how much nike meaning that mitchell actually i know that mcgregor has argued himself in the grand jury i know the record as part of himself and the grand jury and the president have poured onto it that in effect that he is one of the rudest at that and says you know and then on march thirteen nineteen seventy three specifically on march thirteen been told the president directed a strong eastern iowa prior night to really plan was false and that strong when the stone wall again in the future and i thought of that offensive the page seventy of the transcript of the transcript of the committee the welsh say they didn't know anything about watergate and the president you don't think so the no absolutely not president good strong mean yes president he knew the us president about the watergate dean yes president well then you probably

told bob and he may not have a minute thing he was he was the judicious nypd and what he relayed and what's drawn is as tough as they present one the site just go in and say that no the new poems go in and stonewalling and say i don't know anything about what you're talking about is already done it twice as you know an interview he has already done it quite as you know an interview president yes i guess these years in the images of well i suppose we kick all that justice can we kick all of them unintelligible be well if it doesn't the point is it just i mean it's a question a lot of that with him he doesn't want it any other way he didn't have the veto you didn't happen to have it just as something that he founded the way he wanted to handle the situation president but he knew you about what the strontium i'm trying to express the question mark that ferrante went to dr

nabil their president i'll be very well as the problem involves is not safe and then withdrawn postpone work with it oh goat consumed five minutes the chairman of the finals begin operation to last speaking in opposition the gentleman of the gentleman is taking five more minutes the gentleman will be recognized for the five minutes in that will consume the ten minutes in opposition well

now i'd like to emphasize that the procedure aspects of this proceeding are not without their levy what i'm i consider this an extremely serious now and there is indeed an extensive evidence which i would go oh i'm going through but you know it goes on for a moment some thirteen ethically developed with specific what about worries beyond the point which is this paragraph is addressed the improving the condoning acquiescing in and the counseling of witnesses with respect of office tomorrow i think is a great matter and i regret that we have chosen the limited time without a working with hair with what i have specifically omar's twenty one the president was instructed me to haul them and through la about the arrangements for payments

to the defendants in this regard are caught your attention paid one hundred and nineteen of the trend this song i think this is we probably been over this some time before what it's relative this particular point dealing with a human pyramid as far as what happened at this time our cover there is just going to be the cuban committee said the president did this or they'll approve the election mean well yeah we can put that together that doesn't of course quite the way apple i know but it's the way it's going to have that mean it's going to happen and i direct your attention also to page one hundred and twenty of the transport routes file specifically on march twenty fourth also the president told haldeman again i can't recall to say i can't recall have called for grand jury specifically being warned that there was a high risk of applied recently the president and this is on page one one of the transfer i think that will not argue too much without with that at the moment because

i'm running out of time specifically the president discussed in his perjury problem was helpful in making him keep his story straight and that's all they've won twenty three the team says mr president once we start down any route that involved the criminal justice system resident yeah i mean you've got you've got to have to refrigeration a very small role in no way to control that president notes are the oh well while we get we had an amazing job of piano being keeping the bang on the tractor for the presidents try to be while the fbi was that there all that and that was only because president might need i met up for unintelligible of where they were going that right right which happened that now that now with all their body overboard in a lawyer let's take the new manager based on what information at war for example

what happens if he goes into the story you know that here is the way it all came about it was supposed to be a legitimate operation and obviously got off the track i love these cobblestone not one that we should be involved in the you know write the damage was born after the fall in question about all the movies again in the light and it begins to endure weekend the changes story of the what he told the grand jury laughter resident well that's why he's a perjury situation they're called except that's the best leverage got a latino is that we've got the key the story straight or he's in real trouble meeting that's right and of course this conversation with the queen of the anti natal specifically at the march twenty seven meeting between the president ultimately knowing what the following discussions that whites in the us come from they be an etiquette or edited transcripts which encompass all from a white house in order for you to page three hundred and i think that transcript if you will

let's go on a knife through rivers when you have that and be not desirable but i so then he says it was by a thought that you know what do i do corn on here accuse him if he'd been accusing the record has flatly accuse me of perjury he's using dean of them doesn't mean it's going to do to grow the women bruno's of the fact that bin was involved so he knows that were being goes down being contested that as an honest man president is being joined defend immigrants although no sur resident as the other poor soul meanwhile not being picky that likewise obtain them of the president well all the wall concert unintelligible tell a fetishist percent of all was

well i will face without reading of this day all right well what would do that then said look it didn't go down to the grand jury and tears himself with no evidence against him except records which will hold up that is untrue that i go to the grand jury because obviously they're going to call me back and i go defend myself which i know is true now i have a little tougher problem than the land you're saying to me don't make up a new avocado what would you recommend that i do stay with yo la selva up and go to the president or what would you would get in a gentlemanly by dhs now recognizes gentleman from california says they can support a question that we kept apart from an understanding of what the line we'd hear the roar of the

spectrum and i want to read the operative words at least these are charges against the president might do something approving and only acquiescing in and counseling witnesses with respect to the giving false or misleading statements here lawfully authorized investigative officers and so forth including congressional know that you well that the language is focused in terms of giving false testimony in the future that's an important thing to remember because the perjury import occurred prior to march seventeenth well prior to march seventeen and the president didn't learn about until march seventeen and so i guess the obvious question can you counsel giving a perjury testimony after it's already well the answer to that is no

surprise is just learning about on the seventy the play the pain