1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-11-07; Part 5 of 6

fb and sharp note stands which i didn't we look at the scrapbook an update today pope wrote yes he get along with at local arts at a month fifteen minutes impressions reading it well he was he was reading and alice explain his record on it i'm aimee pointed to the area that is trying to explain the trouble that i was in an iron explain this is richard green i think the paper's made a headline about it and i explained on that this was a fictitious name from one corporation which was raised and saying the stands besides well yes it mr fernandez had told many

previously that when it injects to mr stan siegelman miami businesses would pick the phone up and epidemic auto romney vista finance it fernandez as present as shrek tonight i get an object it did not fall in a call center jeremy and i asked him and i said what you get at the check in it as possible way that would always was that a phone call here's a promise secretary romney be called on the phone and have it mr spencer that he would not make a call and i thought he could and to make it they return much it was a radical than a letter i know he didn't like that isn't it it might be called deferred nice and what larry reassurances day for my money i mean i couldn't make a contribution

so for any other reason than that you are not seeking to make that vision reelection presidents know so wasn't really interested in and wanted a sense they doing you've made clear that you wanna know what you ought to suspend certain bird told me that he would never make a call nsa what he could do and i said whoa whoa what is it look like you're with the somalis that we can't do any good for you will return rejected it really make any is they tend to react to the fact that it was not a cashier's check that was a checkmate up the idea that republican committee to services things that make you notice the checkered been made out to leave a wrong committee and it was the french that is the symbol of this is done and there and mr fernandez mention it was me i couldn't take cash and replace it with his check or the smaller checks from idea

that was many surnames and my own he didn't want to check my dad my name and it was not a reference made either in this is that meeting or prior year i think that meeting when a discussion of the payments were made in saying eighty seven nineteen seventy two yesterday of reference april seventh longest i didn't know what a medical myth of the final payment would have to be made before april seventh he said any payments after episode he also mentioned that note on the night before the shed for get through to her he said any <unk> also have to be reported and it stated that in my situation this is something you'd be wise enough to have reported about this there was any other conversation take place in the presence was dancing with the man as well

so some substance that said basically that was there was about a minute left an important details about what you do if you let his office wanting what you do at the office but after i did the book is also went back and no total check that took a plane on the miami at that time if you ever see anything in the newspaper yes or when i get back to miami florida night and fun out of mr eugene gilbert and other hit the squadrons that had suspended me on the day that you know there's a thought about the problem the fact that you were suspended yesterday but the back and say i'm not not really a big concern because i'd known that i was going to be suspended priests that what you're really going to be doing with this analysis they make and so i'm ipo because the suspension was so joyce

at imminent because it knows better publicity i know there's going to be some time about you expect it would be funded by spector primers on the appeal i know what was the message you were contacted by anybody with regard to this matter we're back on the miami and i didn't want my identity calls to a lesser fernandez we call them where people i call him in california that is they don't like the california state and that was the purpose of your closest friends but the finality thing was going fun of their image of them were kind of response to get them as well if i didn't get paid a positive response they completely but he said there were denied that he would be back because we have a small you'd be good because we love you know it was a was going on about here for these chemicals

remain seeking information does someone get in touch with you layer in florida old and ended in his possession your check yes or possibly to a slender man came to my home with a check in hand said he was from the committee to reelect president made any further notice at the game is named dominance of the committee i don't remember his name but i really wasn't koch is it because it had been checked it was dispensed with previous alone at a table in the white army was a serious situation was so they had previously expected another it could be held at the required twenty five thousand dollars in cash in the checklist when you want to check what is the return to check change the twenty five thousand in cash what you said i am why i've said i'd record i said that's that's fine mavis about twenty one image in washington to meet with mr stands any city of any drama

juan padilla though it more he said but expect him in an ice was admitted that is that is has said to you nominee nominees that was the way they can remain verbatim theatre that's where we're going now while you wanted assurances that right now given the cash flow mr stanton what was the cash to us about it as long as i have some assurance that he knows that you have the cash i was sure it's something to be done and was you know they said they couldn't do it that way i them how do out why i was low and i told my thinking it wasn't a deal are checked in a tragic and then he left the service are part of what to do next i think also fernandez in california and i told him i said that's what was going on and really what happened and he said i'll

call you back when making calls an upright bike politically radical me back about two or three hours later in a review of the committee as best you can record call what of conversation was we thought it was the recession was the up he said double that we can't do anything for you you can actually like make a contribution for five thousand dollars but you have to be reported missouri nothing i say will i understand also when i said that there is a lot of you talk about five thousand dollars i said that he said we are promising enough i i guess i get a little bit invaded i said war was a grown worse than twenty five thousand more checkpoints i'm not a republican idea and he said well we never make any promises at all that you can make if you like and we'd like as well i get the five thousand dollars and he said well we would make it known publicly you get five thousand isolating snowy wind in front of it

talk about that and it's where you were i was called earlier is it can really be called one of the weaker than it is only through four days later foregone conclusion for five thousand dollars and i recall as kym that was made hispanic finance committee again and i recall as to what i could use as a package it for five thousand dollars that we would just make it known publicly known like to do for it that a contributor and i said what is nothing really to be done and they said well we'll be no no i wasn't enough assurance from a variety of weaponry that you began making it like i never did make an accomplished what would he led away with the iowa it

return the twenty five there's more checkpoints new weekly do my view anymore i don't recall in it if i if i call him after that summary going to just get really recall a poet i know if nothing else that event affirmative washington those are that's the yeah that's the silence and the effort of the hispanic finance committee is another question but thompson a few phrases to do you have two prime accounts for making false statements violent boston some corporate tax return and suddenly false

statements in connection with an fha matter and respond this before that concern for a lot of women out there were the mothers underemployed or the only but that they would not be pursuing yes there was a plea bargain agreement which was an energy and records southern district of florida and as a result of that warning he pleaded guilty to those counts that so it was generally on those two teams will anyway libyan authorities may have a role in the relationship

listener yes sir police are on the rise and he called to do with them the state the basis of his knowledge was it a good status that is very difficult i think casey was the final race of the billboard in summary i think i can write on the closing of a grisly it's they heard from cubans are human those are rules that people have you know when the name of a new year's yesterday

lucy is that he was a former employee of months now building contractor in miami florida mr fernandez about you just three months ago what'd he say about the arctic oscillation mr fernandez that night up in it all this doesn't really get potential contributors finance committee isn't money and occasionally suggestive your name is possibly someone who might contribute it's a sacred of them answer is a hammer or others are using chemical thinking about my name was brought up i'm a well that was there was in the papers they were not your average a problem at that time our

conversation with fernando e sit with a wordless book about my films it for the newspapers and headlines did that the revenues they have a tremendous trauma they've spoken about the headlines the papers which we're all concern in miami beach it prompts us the fernandez a negative view of the spokane indian years specifically <unk> i guess that lady might've mentioned that the years and others for members of the violent of overkill far is this the minorities mr benjamin hernandez the local chairman is bank finance committee or something like that though

yes sir it's boiling week has been yes sir and there's a vote the energy to that he would help for you on the toll all this i guess it may also indicate going to occur to help you live you know that no government promises was the telephone was more than that it was the indication is that indicate what kind of a photo no sir why i assume that was

legal help but it to compensate for the meeting that you had with indigenous goes the specifics of exactly what kind of job that he might give you decided what gown but he told me that they don't believe that go directly to the process they can at that you there is no moral stance would call secretary romney was anything any more specific than that i know i thought this was a specific enough it more than once that they did you know that we wondered was no i was an anticipation that i was no i was going to be spent ditto imagine eulogies and yes theoretically could prevent it indicated either prevent or if i were suspended which was the likelihood that these the appeal and lifted

we had a conversation which march thirteen was much longer it causes long been president and that mr sloan he spoke briefly and women in the office together and i'll stay there a few minutes over legal when you do let's go i don't recall would you do twenty one mr secretary

this is the case of this is shawn phrase this is a building contractor from miami to make a contribution to us for twenty five thousand dollars what is going on is that it was made up above the national committee is and that wasn't just that this was a discussion yes sir the czech wasn't suitable for mr stands in the dumbest fernandez not be explained in that why couldn't get checked properly and obviously fernandez and mention was to be done with a series of smaller checks make gestures checks mortgage or get cancer it indicates that the smaller checks went up to the

finance committee reliable whatever one of them's us like two of them about that at the time i understand it wasn't having an effect of the teacher and the news well the conversation that you have about the check for the possible ways to commit her contribution i don't recall too much gore says the mother checked no suspense in fine check exactly except their wallets for i can't really recall too much on the church itself so that that family and get any way that he did not want to be a public record or at about one activity of public and now is the fact that you're making a contribution to the material and i get the impression it was not to be a public knowing how much your conversation about what he said i can remember in detail lose your appetite you might remember verbatim

a word for word the whole conversation just summarize that is a thing that affected not wish of the public record this is the incident and i not that i can recall that you know he was willing for checks be made up or argentina says i recall was he's thinking about sex at which was lying as the conversation all about the way your contribution might be held before you get into ligaments the book that you can remember it i can't really also have that discussion about second now you mention the fact that mr fernandez suggested you bring your scrabble waiting on your problems of the publicity ahead this conversation about well i was i thought i'd been some

trouble miami florida and i i said it will be a struggle for a second impression was to ferment month old something before any guide one of the impressions well you see in the lands of the summer is one element of this is the main problem says richard green year i get the impression i said because he didn't send one a lot about that festival of questions about it but if you look at this idea it's also partisan showing him that's what this is the official moment that the trouble allison what what that company was a discussion about a very unfair treatment achievement in the newspapers i don't know anybody and fair treatment for newspapers like it was in the pros

a lot of people do differently given that or you might've been some violation regulations are was that it was a technical violation but not why i did indicate that it was not a serious violation not a serious role of good could you not explain the nature of your problems to move out maneuvered good i couldn't explain it to happen if there aren't intended to discuss one of the first discuss what might possibly be done for you to help it was an actor who's got booker well you're looking for or what well it's a struggle and a laser light camera how awkward i was concerned i was an object to this dance and i went to my estimate anything

was going to be done this is was that phone call my was going to be non our event could be the law that wedding was going to be done or could be done here but you won't really connect with fernandez a consenting i'm going no analytical were you surprised when he made no luo offer to call a moment when i guess that it really really did say that they can follow to romulus promise that is that you mentioned the drama the man yes sir does the minority sue

when you listen to that you discuss the nature of the other problems with him a senate with the scrap a controversial there's an ever discuss exactly what your problem was exactly what your position was the fact that you might be suspended for it i mean it was just everything i wanted to know so amazingly you know the problem is richard remembers everything you know is anyone don't accept stunning other matters says richard green boeing corporation which didn't exist there was red states with what i was concerned about as angela no so what you're referring to everything changes everything in the newspaper articles were

up if it were born and grew up basically others it has been what we're really concerned about was being regularly situation but you didn't mr sellars know like unfair treatment from the president was that was very eye and then it was not an issue at all that you won't discuss the fact that europe might be an issue that we really hope will appeal yes instead of you know waiting and one no sir

in a moment senator baker read a letter from murray stands attorney offering a different interpretation of that campaign contribution public television coverage of the senate watergate hearings resume after station identification on average coverage of the hearings is being broadcast as a public service where local public television station this is pbs public broadcasting service the pope the power

and ride continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential

campaign activities it again and our correspondent peter carey have to go back to the inherent senator baker is about ready to read a letter from morry stands attorney helpful to the rec room in fairness to call the committee's attention to a letter addressed to the chair dated november six nineteen seventy three from welcome son craig noonan barber washington counsel for mr stanton signed by robert w barber which has attached to a statement of mr spencer november six nineteen seventy three which deals with the same subject matter and which as attached to it as the statement as attached to a memorandum on the stage for the department of housing and urban development dated march fourteenth

nineteen seventy two and the office of the assistant secretary for housing management jessica mr stands and son back to you richard i'm sorry i can't read the last time i believe it says dobbs was chairman i realize this is out of water but this is in this material is important leave it as this laughter and the statement mr stransky rid of the record not only was i think this indicates that the because i think it might be useful other examinations will the committee medication

thank you and that's a lot of letters on saturday november six nineteen seventy three addressed to turn your chair her staff counsel of requests to victims and it's led to an affidavit of the honorable research stands and senate proposed contribution to finance committee to reelect president that mr john preaches stands out of the city on pre arranged matters and cannot be back this week this request raises questions of lester spence fundamental rights in the case of

us versus michel until seventy three cia for thirty nine in new york draw attention to our fourth nineteen seventy threes have the number twenty six interview in lebanon in my state and six eighty three six eighty seven years stent isn't willing voluntarily to do anything which will contribute to publicity which made him deny him a welfare trial wasn't request places mr stanton the same position as your direction june twelfth reached and testified that she spends most respondents were guilty knowledge vs to publicity could interfere with the third try out for this letter and the ted state but have submitted without any way were on was transporting requested be used by the committee without publicity in order not to add to the already inflamed time of publicity so far far as fairchild concern i might say an addict and chairman there i believe it's a fair statement to say that you and i were both concerned with that

language how do you use it with the publicity still like a lot of the records request mr barker was contacted telephonic play and indicated to mr thompson that he was agreeable letter in the statement that you just on a corporate record well that continues insurance involved masters priestess of fernando's go for tomorrow is not possible to get to an affidavit we have instead after telephone kaplan says when staff counsel discusses minute detail with ministers and church committee records and lester spence has given us a bottle on the terms and conditions bob simon host robert sean coverage than just thought ever since nineteen seventy three state legislators are questions that the senate committee on presidential campaign activities for the purposes of punishing

up to that committee in connection with the investigation and in matters it is funny so the conditions they live in the company ladder council since the nineteen seventy two at them and i am the chairman of the committee of the finance committee will likely president and predecessor committees with officers seventy know on pennsylvania avenue northwest washington dc then fernandes of los angeles california service chairman of hispanic finance committee agree like the pressure during the recent presidential election campaign on march thirtieth nineteen seventy two i met briefly mr fernandez and a potential contributor named john christos racist was brought marcus pursuant to previous appointment by mistreatment ms fernandez head on what they call mr hugh douglas loner treasure the committee and i told him that my meeting with a potential contributor would be helpful mr secretary until a meeting i did not know

the name of the individual two miles to meet other circumstances the post contribution only about this tremendous positive assistant finalizing the proposed contribution and injured at the meeting was to places offered contribution campaign web chat for twenty five thousand dollars side by another person a mastermind and make a noise i were caught something like republican party are similar firms was not like there will finance committee to reelect president discussed they even check would have it changed what i do not oppose passing this point moment that intricate and that's an intended to taxes we were disguised as a daisy several committees to receive three thousand dollars each were quite down so much specifically whether we discussed as opposed to prisoners after discussing rejected phrases then proceeded to give me a pile of newspaper clippings from miami now they did in february of nineteen seventy two highly critical

best baristas justin gallegos was appraised as i realize a large one popped up at a low cost housing problem because of famers allegedly rented to him by suspended if it's a director in miami named elsa newspaper articles related that is rizzo says that move from nineteenth two second and homebuilders and a county florida in one year's time the allegations also stated that praises that huge number of special operations for the purpose of an encounter caused the newspapers of unfurnished committee step ray says that it was an unfair victim of the miami herald that he was fearful that action might be taken against him by dorothy cheney on the basis of unfavorable publicity without us having an opportunity to defend himself he said that he hoped that i would treat him the i flipped through the violent despite the clippings in his position to read them later i also told him that

i could not evaluate the situation without knowing if it's his attitude toward him and his transactions that i would have to check with good return to chat either to commanders are places to hold until i was able to do so on the same day in meetings trying to return a deputy assistant secretary at that meeting as soon as possible well on sunday as scheduled meeting with bill gifford of the white house to discuss the priest dispose of it and ask him to checks at sources that are properly available to him to let me know what you could learn from sources of the priests on march fourteen that also be a letter stating that that hasn't had suspended resist on march thirteen and in the consequences of this so far as i can recall tell my conversation priestess no mention was made of the fact that

he had been suspended i made a notation drop contact political attacks as exhibit was a copy of mr donaldson for on march seventeen perceive a phone call from gifford's a princess is not playing is hispanic populations is unreliable and undesirable on march at the top of our telephone mr fernandez and report this information to him and told him to terminate any contact with west priests this tremendous told me that he would do so it was an exceptional contribution the best man on finance committee has never received contributions from mr priester is directly or indirectly special check by the finance committee staff committee records disclosed contributions to priests so far say no mr fernandez acted carefully and properly in this matter but in any event it was a priest has had any idea getting favors contribution is obvious that not only did he not received them but that he was totally on kasich's record

with that they get tax exempt one of the statement is the memorandum of justice stands with you sure in which i will read sections to priestess is under investigation by both heard and justice regarding his dealings with fha called table saws allegations of those seeking favoritism with deputy director leslie have been made it has suspended priestess from further dealings with that picture as of monday march thirteen nineteen seventy two as you forgot increases simplicity have been highly publicized by miami press any contact with prisoners the stand up in the highly inappropriate and geometric panels in the bottom is the script and that notation which must stand she referred to a statement saying drop contact hot humid hp's encircled <unk> chairman pursuant to the previous unanimous consent requests

in order and now these documents for the occasion inclusion on the record as appropriately numbered exhibits it's been the peak has been has been that's right mr spence statement that he has

respected newspaper articles referring to him if we interpret that correctly it is an inherent in any event i understand we do not have those newspaper clippings and i soon councilman well as counsel from its chance two more questions now zak about the specific nature the conversations can determine whether situation on the one hand with stanton stating that he would try to do something for someone who has an effect a substantial contribution we're doing something you know any family which had a lot of fans have made him quote of the deputy assistant secretary this letter that the march fourteen which was the date a meeting with him was enormous and this is a responsibility that unofficial apartment

house stationery you know why he would go what madness and why through the official channels concerning of the nature of your situation wasn't in keeping with what he told you a lot that sort of thing mr fernandez was engaged and that is the no campaign contributions for committed we like that plea deals lesser and eighty eight people who told him the true in trouble some controversy and he told you that if you can houston and know you will continue unchecked from a friend for twenty

five thousand dollars at the essence of this fight and this yes and i'll make the republican rnc the republican national committee came to washington that mr fernandez request yes and that's to fight mendoza comment made ulysses sexiest man yes sir and we'll do it and you know an affluent business will spend it was not the sad about the condition the intimate studio for you is that

thank you yes yes and yes and then now you gave to mr sands big hits are and investors there is discussed with you that it would be possible to make a contribution and casual make him fall sat in the cashier's checks or checks benefited too mange so i'm not exactly clear who is mr stanza mr fernandez i think to the best of my knowledge it was mr fernandez out there is what a lot of that really clicked with his suggestion was made yesterday and aggressiveness especially the yes or anbar when you do an educated guesses that he was some assurance that you were that you had expected him to call this

omnibus activated yes sir and you want some assurance that he would call must go wrong for my contribution yes and he told you that he would call mr romney and he couldn't do anything with the fall that he would not exactly yes or an object is right yes sir and who did you think the clippers with illegal things with understands and after some day as some men who knew was mainly to learn to call law did not an overtime victory in four years or you have the one or two weeks one question of the latest prius as you heard the statement that mr spencer that it is or you disagree with an

interest that oh well basically as i heard it it is basically true no way he's been going to what you doing here speaking in other words for anybody else involved in this rather extraordinary sequence of friends what you think you're doing and what you think

you were doing in one that i think i was i thought that i was paying twenty five thousand down there with a promise to pay an additional twenty five thousand for political favor political favor government offices the end result was that was going to be it would've been a favorite that you think of as your mind is a bribe government officials i know i didn't give a lot of pause and is a bribe but i didn't really have that thought it is that with the way things are done it's been and i'll confess even then were coming years laughter

i'm sure you know you're getting no sick infants for them into question gentleman testifying before the committee this morning one of your kitchen to see him on the side of not what's the view of the best in the moral lesson i was wondering who the other room on march twelfth one is minimal and so that was it i just reiterates that later after i'd i'd forgotten his name and later on it that testimony before the fbi i had a actually i

heard from the un and the newspapers i'd forgotten was really was name was in the newspapers report is my floor had asked me if i'd known a menorah casanova and at it demands that at that time i remember that that was a minority has no real person to buy some analysts are two other person's there will be certain organs know so it's more just know him as the finance minister in yourself too as a traditional persons as a region of northeastern your nose they were all male or the discussion about the itt confirmation mr the discussion in law that was a race that i don't know is it me too heavy ice and because of this i see

this end soon for me for the words of a person that room and also aware of your ear problem and resolve this problem they seem to be a problem because we discussed it like i talk from more than fifty thousand dollars within minutes she was this thing what is it do you think was there so the martian soil were there with us we're part of the conversation you were having it was it was very informal they're sitting there and it was mainly get more inside i want to talk to probably something like that i just told him i said listen at i

said i i think am i just read the papers as a dicey right et gets in trouble for two hundred plus mark auditioned civilian and i said this is whether it would be safer for a hundred thousand dollars and up one thousand one of the economists who's going to four hundred thousand or so much good as the justice department that one base corporations and states and i think as you get a better brake well i'm still trying to pin down the solar energy as they appear to be associated with us commandos or they hate they get enormous to france because it was it an informal etc i quote certain things are or something and i was just sitting on that there was an enlightenment as the burden of this team that didn't know what was going on why how do they have any comments to make it your own particular situation

nobody seen for many of my situation that familiar basically us including a hundred thousand dollars now the contacts that you have with mr fernandez your initial contract with tremendous i'm i correct in assuming from just given that he seemed to know their situation through well the us authorities seem to know her situation for the press with friends of yours that it seemed that that he'd known throughout west in miami area and also present was big news family that wasn't told what the papers i hadn't really had that question and so is going on out of money these things

through the fha what you called william galston the fha director of coral gables zucker at this eckerd actual contact visit and that is unknown lowe's and they are noticeably what this summary ears of thousands of the fernandez was joe well what was the nature of your question to cost me and what was the nature of this response to why told the supposed to want to meet with them and that within their resort and one complete detroit owns it would happen and he didn't seem like he knew exactly special mccartney wrote and yet mr fernandez than done and also wrote the writing on that which is so the hispanic finance committee to reelect president he said it makes it also

coming back later she did the next day and then in the call back were legitimately obviously thought without substance a telephone caller said the end i mean but i don't think it means i mean the video of the job is going to be done but this was the way the job to be done and you're a gallantry time he hasn't been in your conversation with mr polsky you indicated to him that you look upon this as a way of getting out of here and your difficulties with the fha is an oppressor and so you're asking him for his analysis is too well and five

this was aware of the fha yes yes five minutes that was he did he give you any ideas for who he contacted to get this type of information no sir he just call you back and said that and indeed this was a proper channel for you to get out of your predicament didn't know was given indications that we talk of the intention of a chair and he won certainly be made to the telephone call the city's record that was that they could handle a john who can

lead the job would be able to be as banks finance committee but it olympic committee would be a contribution if i made a contribution that the suspension to be lifted that they could indeed so he indicated in touch with the hispanic those are not going to get that he indicated that there's someone else it's been the push back were you ever in touch with anybody from with the exception of the house we are in touch with anyone from either a duty for the project

i we repeat that aside from your contacts with mr kelso did you have any contact relatives dismantled to testify to before the committee argue with anyone from a judy year or fha officials in the country aside from costly did you have contact with anyone from fha so your entire contact does this matter were with mr fernandez of the hispanic finance committee are really hit bottom yes sir oh dear

your turn it's been mr bridges as jersey the newspaper clippings know some other were given the stands eye on summer was wondering why they changed it was like oh now after he received the check you made called mr fernandez in california yesterday as an unending solicitude you for the cash contribution of five thousand dollars no i think you're right going back

three hours later part two or three hours later and it saying that conversation i had that same might be said will we cannot you can make a contribution of five thousand dollars to if you like us and will when i sit with unified has a nice well now to five thousand and it's really like to make a contribution that yelling we can do is that will make it all but what about the interview is knowing that at all what you had to say about the fact that the memorandum came from carbon stands on march fourteenth and indicating that you were under charges before and then there are you under investigation by the department of justice and by houghton and that therefore they should forget about this contribution

and then they waited two weeks until they gave you back to check smog and he said well i have to say about me so in the last well they had info on stands sit on about march fourteenth i recall that debut an investigation by the department of justice and you didn't receive a check until two weeks later in that was like and stress or when i just i know what that was like that was strange yes and i think the statement by mr spence indicated that he had passed on this information and managed to get about you know a four isn't against reining that was tremendous still continued to solicit you the day after you got the check yes i well i thought it was strange and

yet my mom i have a record in the records telephone calls it the one hundred and the surprising decision fb fb