1974 Nixon Impeachment Hearings; 1974-07-30; Reel 6 of 6

fb that was the beginning of the salt i think that perhaps our passage of the war cars that precedent that is assigning no president has made this question moot as the future presidents i agree with mr wally the dome and california that the debate here will offer guidelines to future presidents and the mere fact that we are debating this that the mere fact that we are talking about the mere fact that we are agonizing about it a little bit it has a troublesome matter there are too many aspects that are unknown and i'm going to oppose it but i think we should this committee should have gone into it more deeply going to go but for allentown

as expire the gentleman and the artist a fish german i think mr chairman the question before us naturally is is the unauthorized bombing an impeachable offense was a treason i don't believe so was a bribery clearly not their forte is in a high crime and high crimes that we've been talking about these past five days the crimes that would show a contempt for the constitution that we know where the authority to declare war lies within the congress therefore that the question comes down to whether this unauthorized bombing was a content of this institution the congress united states the fact is that we in the congress share responsibility

the facts of the lack of concealment have come out in this debate i don't think it was necessary to characterize the nunnery the political leadership but the committee leadership in both parties in both the house and senate as having been carefully selected these men did know on our behalf and so the congress does have this responsibility i likened this particular proposed article to that which concerns unauthorized incumbents in both cases as had been said in this debate the fact was that for decades the congress itself was giving ground to the executive in both cases the colors of that far too slowly for many but the fact is that today it has acted with the budget control and empowerment legislation which is now more of the war powers act which is now

law chairman i cannot absorb myself or my colleagues for our part in the blame by using it exclusively on the president really about the boss michael bay area gentlemen from illinois mr railsback is recognized freeman's voice of mr chairman i can't i can't help but think one short memories we have i was part of a republican task force recommended was nineteen sixty eight the president some of the northeastern university campuses remember we visited harvard northeastern university mit and i remember but it was shortly after the us that we consider their campus and we interviewed people live with one with the sps we interviewed the student government leaders leo i think they were called the afro americans and we sensed the

most bitter frustration disillusionment concern distrust about that particular establishment that time and they can vary in no uncertain terms that disillusionment and frustration which they believe was caused by false and misleading statements that have been made by the administration one after the other the fact that they have been told that we were going to be out another six months they've been promised that the war was almost over only to find that there was an even greater commitment of american troops recently many of us have had a chance to read a book by a few odd surprise winner david halberstam wrote about the whole involvement our involvement in southeast asia with particular reference to be for the kennedy and the johnson administration i want to refer to just

about one particular reference the mix mc he's most says halberstam was no small part of it johnson had always been haunted by the idea that he would be judged as being insufficiently manly for the job that he would lack courage at a crucial moment westmoreland mcnamara guilty because of the misplaced confidence and ground troops lbj was the real war criminal wanting to see the american people in july nineteen sixty five by deciding to send over a hundred thousand two hundred and twenty five thousand troops were telling the american people it was only fifty thousand and that it does not imply any change in policy whatever in fact most halberstam it was the beginning of an entirely new policy which would see what was the south vietnam war south vietnamese war become primarily an american war i suggest to the lbj was no more accountable probably than the preceding president maybe the preceding the present preceding that president that he was

no more accountable then this congress those of us the seventies congress approved policies failed to exercise congressional oversight it seems to me i write that when the ellsberg papers came out the nixon administration i don't approve of these things but it seems ironic to me that the nixon administration when the ellsberg papers were leaked we're concerned about their link not because they reveal things that happen under the nixon administration but because of decisions and policy decisions that have been made under the jackson kennedy years juana what an irony and how foolish we would be to impeach this president for that particular incident when the whole thought the of india's involvement was one series of mistakes one right after the other recognize the gentleman from new jersey mr salmon for three minutes and forty five ms kalman i like to address my

remarks to the thirty seven other members in and i just like you to remember one little thing i'm going to say today you wanna be remembered as that part of that congress tried to impeach a president of the united states because he did something which animal or that his two predecessors couldn't do that's a pretty good question and i said yesterday while the coasters admirers at the previous president and i think with myself why i thought it was a great man i can remember when president johnson the first year i was that he invited forty freshman moment other the oval office and sit down with it and then it was at that particular time that he was making up his mind to accelerate the bomb i know that history is going to be wary unkind to my mind was a great man and a great president

he revealed cosby advice that he had received from all of the generals general westmoreland and all the rest of all on one piece of paper with our recommendations and he said oh i say said you know i never went to west point i'm not a general unease about our laws we have any general the men's room or at west point but these are the best military minds in the world now what you look at their advice to me as the chief executive and on every piece of paper about forty of the recommendation was a week's salary i said well you don't i'm asking you that was in a one game a dissenting opinion over forty people in a room beside president and everyone out with congress hindsight is always better than foresight is not a

monday morning monday morning quarterback that made a better guess i suppose what based upon the best information available president act it wasn't the right decision as time revealed and he's not going to go down in history as a man who deliver a good job with that war i remember when he made his farewell address over along our polling i guess everyone else though still very sad man broken heart of not because on his conscience was what he felt the death of thousands of people and one thing you want to do more males the war was and that warning could go along came richard nixon will all the faults he may have he ended that war i have a million people or in southeast asia when he became president fifty thousand americans lost their lives there nobody's buying in southeast asia today as sol we want a reward him by impeaching

him because he didn't tell everybody what he was going to do before you did it misses an awful funny way to run a war isn't it conceal much every war with iran and concealment you don't tell the opposition which didn't know before you go out i will restore power is a moment so that everybody else and with that let's not forget the commencement of activities in vietnam was the first time an emergency power exercised by a president i say you let us not be remembered that because we want a reward this man by throwing him out of office and the gentleman has expired recognize the gentleman from wisconsin has bessemer for six minutes and fifteen seconds it was chairman and i will not take all the time i would like to you some of my time to the composer of the article the gentleman from michigan subsequently i am i think it's unfortunate that

were in position of tactically revealing the war in southeast asia that is really not the point of this article but very candidly this article will not succeed it will not be adopted either by this committee or the congress unless i supported i think the essence of the article is as fundamental as the three we have already adopted if not more so i appreciate the comments of my colleagues particularly the gentleman from california mr edwards and mr wally to the effect that the genesis of concealment reception did not originate with richard nixon whatever culpability

there may be in history and the past of those presidents are no longer presidents in fact long censored on to their great the question really is a constitutional law and if in fact the president did issue false and misleading statements engaging in deception and concealment concerning a matter of such great importance to the country as the conduct of war in which thousands and thousands of americans were killed irrespective of how americans now do that more than in fact he has committed an offense for which he is accountable i would only say that going back to the earliest times won james the riddle one of the framers of the constitution states that the proposition that the president and i quote most certainly be

punishable for giving false information to the senate is to regulate all intercourse with foreign powers and it is guilty to import in parts of the senate every material intelligence he receives if it should appear that he has not given them for information but as concealed important intelligence which ought to have communicated and by that means in dissent to enter into measures injurious to their country which they would have not consented to have the true state of things been disclosed them in this case i asked whether an impeachment for a misdemeanor paraphrase them would lie and so we have come to modern times and the situation that confronts us at this moment perhaps attempting to regain lost powers but

in terms of what the constitution requires in terms of accountability the president must i think ought to even though it will not about fourteen million from one question it overwhelming for montevideo the information we received was classified because of the fact that the information regarding the bombing was revealed to selected members of the senate that's my recollection of the year information the government is correct in some other colloquy between the gentlewoman from new york and the gentleman from virginia from sale i think history will record that those seven most were people fully committed to a course of action involving war ended not necessarily represent the people in the sense of the congress as a whole if in part of this knowledge represents the people and i would suggest that imparting that knowledge to a few select individuals

view is conformed with that the administration did not constitute imparting for information the country and did in fact constitute for the concealment of their own ideal to the gunman wisconsin for a living and i would pose this question to my colleagues because i appreciate it the seriousness of the considerations before us in a way this article cuts differently from any of the others and i would be the first to concede that were the president not being considered for impeachment on other grounds it would be expanded difficult to have this consideration before but history has brought them together ladies and gentlemen that the coincidental meeting of this consideration of war powers at the same time that the revelations of water make this vote inescapable upon us and

i went on marriage and remember that it he or she feels that the record that we bill should an op include and recommend this article of impeachment legitimately not to add onto a bill of impeachment unnecessarily but responsibility to preserve and reclaim be probably most important single power that the constitution vests in this congress i heard your support of this article the gentlemen and alabama mr flowers is recognized for three minutes and i will object to the fair consideration of the information only objective by voting for it

president nixon and we all recognize it oh my friend from new jersey says hindsight vanish as quickly and it does and says things were those of foresight information quickly and that's remember what the president couples was than any of his activity and the enamel southeast asia with to get us out over there let's also remember that all those advisors that advised him in the early spring of nineteen sixty nine or no splatters on the president lyndon johnson the democratic you will that moment into the main of the author of this article in anyway and i had the honor your conscience of that conyers and those of others to rule join in this effort a bustling tokyo corner own conscience in this or any consideration we have here and bustling token my conscience because to me that i speak out against this article of impeachment

we might as well resurrect president johnson and impeach him posthumously for the enamel else's impeach president nixon for cambodia how many articles of impeachment were filed against president johnson for what he had done and getting us and towards the stage i don't recall that that any war i was not a moment congress during his administration we might as well read write the memory of john kennedy for santa domingo and buy a page president eisenhower had as you two as president truman in korea on all week ago but almost throughout history and remember the alamo lot although the president was there with a problem of minimalist see it i'm not sure you know congress has acted we've got the war power of completion bill now probably that action and that's setting forth our judgment on this situation

enough we don't need to spell it out any further we ought to vote this down by a large margin you are still notice that when you say viet nam us are normal people still joke book that's lee if they do own this i will not because this is a bad rap for president nixon and i call on all member of the medical reviewers this article the gentleman there from the south carolina may recognize that three minutes when it is unfortunate that the relationships between the first woman elected representatives of the people in congress have deteriorated album is one of the nineteen eighties to the thought that the president cannot confide in the congress and

that congress whose duty it is to declare war that situation exists ladies and gentlemen that exist today and we look us straight in the eye and decide what can we do about it to further exacerbate that problem by recriminations forecasts conduct is not fancy unless we can attribute to that president and motivation that is treasonous and none of us would deny that there's no neat way to fight a war and the judgments made on those circumstances you know the human light of history in the judgment of congress as it failed to declare war what we doing in viet nam without a declaration of war appropriating funds tacitly approving commitment of troops we have

lately undertaken a a definition of the powers the respective powers of the president and the congress and so we should and we should refrain article one section eight of the constitution and say that there are many responsibilities of on the congress with reference to the operation the law of armed services to make room for the government regulation lynn land and naval forces and other powers celeste direct our attention to improving and restoring those rules and regulations those relationships those drugs will not cause us to in days of a confrontation when the national defense on national security is involved the telephone as it uses further dryness recognize six minutes of the

things i am a christian and let's say first what this document our article does not do this document takes no position whatsoever on the merits of the war in indochina we're not asking hawks and doves to vote along that line today this resolution makes provision for those who feel as others do as spoken here if they feel that the bombing in cambodia saved american lives they can continue with their conviction and still vote for this resolution today this resolution related its essence this secrecy secrecy in the executive branch of government jo wheeler testified on july eight nineteen hundred and seventy three that the president personally ordered him not to disclose the bombing in cambodia and i quote general we ought to any number

of congress is actually is very narrow this radical means that we don't want a president authorizing for ratifying the concealment from the congress are the facts about a certain situation and setting which the congress must act the founding fathers i think we should note made a provision an article one at the time residents are must publish a journal except in a narrow exception the journal could be secret if the congress or decide there is no provision for secrecy and executive branch of government whatsoever in the constitution of all history of secrecy and government was the very thing that the framers of our constitution wanted to undo secrecy means that we in the primaries don't get the essential information that we need in order to legislate in the area of law medicine said that they wore declaring far in congress must include everything

necessary to make that are affected the administration steve the congress for years for this reason that there is absolutely no requests for march nineteen sixty nine to august nineteen seventy three by the administration or appropriations or the war in cambodia hundred and forty five million dollars was spent is that wrong then you say that this is all one wall no communication to the congress even if and this is in dispute somewhere it was tall on a secret basis to glorify people in the congress that we have something going in cambodia the members of this very house were dc because as an assignment and said we authorize a hundred and forty million dollars not the war in cambodia but for in

vietnam at least now the congress has a right to know and here are some of the questions that the pentagon reviews you testified to a big earrings a year ago in the senate to authorize the fortification of documents one reason is that now long after the war has ended while the continuation of the secrecy in this matter also vacation and military documents that this would be a clear violation of article one oh seven of the uniform code of military justice well then let him sell in nineteen hundred and seventy three was secretary of defense in nineteen seventy when these things occur and in nineteen seventy three you know i'd knowledge of a film a wider the military feel that they could not trust their own highly classified reporting system or b fifty twos strikes like they're fully coordinated with special photo intelligence and this was done outside of that ordinary system are

reasons that the congress has not been told the jury agreed i think there's a very narrow article it does not really involve what quincy in a plot with he acquiesced of it not it does not involve your assessment of the indochina war all it says is that secrecy in government without justification or excuse than in this instance be an impeachable offense even the acquiescence of the congress and some other things that you've heard today is immaterial the president himself so gentle lemur not once but as gentle wheeler said six times that no one shall ever hear of this bombing in cambodia mr jerry freed i'm a spokesman for the pentagon in july nineteen hundred and seventy three said the sat words he's oh

probably also vacation of documents he spoke of the erroneous information that he transmitted through the congress and he said just a year ago i knew at the time it was wrong and i am sorry did the president ever reprimand any of those who do see the congress no heat ratified their conduct and those who fought against this article will be saying in effect that the president our next president andy president nbc the condos that have secrecy in the executive branch and try to justify it by saying that we didn't want to embarrass some foreign friends let that go to the very heart of what the separation of powers is all about those who want the congress to stand up in the future we'll say i am never going to allow another president to ratify the concealment from the

congress are basic facts and get through the kindest false and misleading statements about any domestic about anything especially about bombing operations in a neutral nation i hope that all of us will say with harry reid on that we do at that time was wrong and we're sorry and the gentleman has expired the gentleman fellow iowans to seventy three minutes and forty five seconds i soften strange agreement with the arguments of the proponents of this article on the issue that gave rise to it and that issue is the false of occasion information be misleading of congress the failure to consult congress on matters grave as an act of war on the nineteenth of march nineteen sixty nine the president approve the secret bombing of cambodia and ordered that it be that that information on to be limited to those who had a

absolute need to know a year later in april nineteen seventy the president made this statement in a public address to the nation american policy has been disproved you as we respect the neutrality of the cambodian people that statement was a ball block now as far as mr dryden has said the heart of this issue is the secrecy the false of occasion of information and thereby the deprivation of congress have the ability to even exercise its constitutional bars over appropriations and over making war and i certainly agree that just informing a few individuals and the congress is not informing the congress and yet i also find myself an agreement with the statements of some of the opponents of this resolution project the reservoirs and mr mann mr alpaca mr cole they are shown a sensitivity to the situation that

we're in because of the fact that congress is not always lived up to their responsibilities that said they have allowed this sort of thing to go on my mind goes back to the nineteen forty one president roosevelt ordered destroyers the escort boats shipped to great britain and have belligerent which was an act of war and yet i thought that was a great idea at the time a couple of other reasons why i'm opposed to that resolution there is a collection of the documents that they have been published the book a mini review on this issue and here is a question of you're the collection of the documents that have not been covered and the reason i'm in public that because the reagan administration refuses to de classify them their top secret and yet there's no justification for this secrecy the war is over but they also by doing that they prevent us from using as evidence in this case before the public

some of the documents which tie the president into this very active concealed and there's one other reason and that is that the congress has passed the war powers act and laid down some guidelines so that from here on out every president is on notice that it is the law that blackwater was not just the constitution but you must've either retire as soon as possible preferably before he initiated military action i yield to the gentleman from les mis around the things that i think i'd like to associate myself mr john from ohio i appreciate his duty to me about it and i suspect that the lessons of this year and we'll learn american the unlikely to occur again my concern in impeachment is with those events that are continuing in nature that we that our focus should be another and i'm concerned the classified information which with which we cannot use i feel

protected deeply about this i'm not known as they talk in this congress with miley i voted against continuing the bombing of cambodia last summer for one hour i can state universities in my district for penn state students died four years ago because of the fact that the president of united states again a beauty of art invaded cambodia without consulting the congress and if there's anything that we can do that we haven't done to stop that from happening again we should know what we should not do the pitch but our president for x in which other presidents have taken the same sort of action and for which the congress itself there's a very deep major responsibility i'm an average by the gentleman from utah mr owens is recognized for six minutes in fifteen seconds he was determined that it is true that now

as being full during the course of this debate on the possibility of passing this article of impeachment vote for this article i submit is responsible it is intellectually defensible and i think it is merited by the facts but it is obviously not going to pass in order to execute the function to declare war congress must be provided with accurate information by its commander in chief this is evasive action which it almost no one agrees in this particular situation with which no one disagrees i'm sorry yankee him from around in this situation the president misled the public for a period of four years mr hogan who just not corrected me i reckon to say when he said there was no cover up that there was a cover up for four year years of the true facts of this war in cambodia others say this isn't necessarily

unique in some of seven you're attacking the wrong person that is president nixon who wound down this war a fact which i have met which i'm very grateful but i think it must be admitted and understood that the president ended this war only after being pushed into that resolution and that solution by congress and it was last may a year ago may have seventy three that i had the honor of voting to cut off funds for the bombing in cambodia which resolution for the first time pass the congress as a whole and which brought about some sixty days later the final conclusion to the war in southeast asia in the east asia i would be lessened been planted if i did not admit quite openly that i think the last president of my party misled the public in the same way i think the the publication of the pentagon papers indicate indicated quite clearly

the president johnson has led the people that in a campaign of nineteen sixty four the time when he was making speeches in one direction and representations in one direction he was in fact preparing to go another and that the tonkin gulf resolution supposedly his authority for fighting that war was obtained but the cost of misleading congress purposefully misleading congress how many impeachment resolutions that has been asked quite recently in this debate and any impeachment resolution sent were introduced to impeach president johnson and i suppose the answer is none but because none were brought against president johnson and because he was not brought to account for his misleading of congress and of the public cannot excuse this president i am amazed to use the terminology of the gentleman from new jersey but that argument can solve and surface that the sins are or or the impeachable offenses if they are of one president can justify those same sins of another

president this president indisputably ordered secrecy in the reporting and the non reporting and foster caisson of documents of this war after having ordered the war perpetrated there i have at my side eleven separate statements which president nixon and his military advisors and commanders major congress nine the congress and eleven and two to the public allies all in absolute variation of the president's obligation to congress to provide them with adequate adequate andrew information upon which they might fulfill their responsibility of whether we go to war or not committee members know that i among others keep harping that we must find some lessons for the future of this impeachment proceeding i hope that we will set down a standard for presidents

and future wars that something positive will come out of this a sad the history of this ad war in southeast asia in the history of this adversity i put together that we will say that if there are to be future wars and i hope as i know all members of the committee do with all our heart that there will not be but those wars will only be decided by the people through their representatives in congress just like the constitution requires thrilling back about my time the gentlemen as you that gets data does narrow the jazz an anathema and i used my colleague ari is there some way a member who when we came here it was not prepared to declare himself the third time is either an

opponent body ought to listen to this debate and sometimes because i recall the time was parcel out on that basis and that requires that the member at that time be a partitioning for this debate in the cadence seek his time like afghanistan and i ask unanimous consent that that it allowed on i think five minutes would be in between what was allocated proponents an opponent's error three and a half minutes earlier you know i had my hands on the matter the charity and write my name nightmare my four minutes and forty five seconds or something like that and gerald are charitable we gave me one minute

i shall be much more charitable if an object and you have all of your time the president did you as to what sort of his name will be listed as being recognized there's no time is left the gentleman is the job of the new data add to its been the last big win support and actually all time expired find myself in the same position as my distinguished colleague missed a lot about having heard that these distinguished chairman mention my name is one that had been on the list so i was hoping that you have not elected as bleak cherishes the state that the names of all of those who have been seeking recognition were all red

review the notes that she's taken that my name would be recorded among those that want to do in any event i would requests unanimous consent to speak briefly on the subject and itunes if i understand the question the name is really on the west well the gao which is the state that is there are those people that decade mr

chairman i know we know that vote on this and not argue about whether or not their name down and it will only speak i'd be delighted to hear it will take much longer and that we can then go on and vote will spend more time arguing about at the eleventh week the german the german reserve and i know that this time my colleagues and more likely the baby boom for the same amount i would like to state that sheriff in not recognizing the gentleman from new york and the chair does what the state that he didn't know that a

prior a recognition of those members that the member from new york mr wrangler had indicated that he would have been one of those one of this week on the year on the article if it were proposed and i do have his name but i do not have his name at that valid wish that maybe the memories i recognize that he did do that and they are out of the out of consideration for that fact in the charles state that are there in the chair rationalize consent that the junk from the art they give in one minute one man thank you

are not just as yemen and my very generous colleagues on this committee and i was not a member of congressman franklin roosevelt mr chairman mr kennedy mr johnson that we hear and that they are not yet now too two were set the record straight all i'm saying is that americans don't as too much from their country when there is a problem when our nation's safety is at stake military people go for what american men go forward they defend our country the only thing between war and people as the united states congress i refuse to believe that you get to change the rules of the game and say that this president or any other president and me what a handful of congressmen and devise an american voice defied a walk in some country they did not even know existed perhaps there was no argument made against mr truman but on that troop ship that i was on in june of nineteen forty nine at the argument been raised on the question of

impeachment i'm certain it would've been a lot of support for it i yield back the balance of my time time has expired all time has expired and the question now occurs on the article as offered by the gentleman from michigan all those in favor of the article please signify by saying aye all those opposed all the no's appear to have it and i this is true

weaknesses mr oliver no visible midst of this commando this disarming this now this is i know all mr dennis tyndall was doing it ms joy by this reform this wholesome high risk for all this and

more in this report no this is this is an adult there's no reason to wait until this generation mr cohen no no is

because there is literally no no to pass by this report twenty twelve members voted aye twenty six members voted no on the article has not agreed to the camino in recess until eight o'clock now for a brief recap of tuesday's final deliberations before the house judiciary committee at the daytime session the committee approved one additional article of impeachment of article against the

president was one sighting the president for defying the committee's subpoenas designed to produce more presidential tapes and more material for investigation then the committee turned down an article that would have cited the president for misleading the country and congress by engaging in secret bombing in cambodia later in the night session the committee rejected a full particle charging the president willfully tried to evade income tax payments and illegally used federal funds for personal gain and that vote ended the committee's six days of debate and voting no saint shares to the full house of representatives and at the house debate is open a television we will be back with full coverage on most of these public television stations and tell them my colleagues i'm john mara thank you and goodnight from washington you have been watching videotapes gavel to gavel coverage of the house

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