1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-17; Part 3 of 4

it's been that was in late march of nineteen seventy five his first one hundred thousand dollars to someone to be there in your eye you're an individual in new york you know you're right

well it is individual mike welcome i don't know people are reporting

i don't know what was the signal is that he identified said you'd receive one side there was the youth violence some state and five minutes or something about jesus calling you have a code name and he have one person that money was for i didn't know anything now tell us about the next contribution from a circumstance that was the first incident that money come from an

interesting theory that leftover money and sixty eight campaign doesn't proceed you know i think within a month center i was going to ask you to disperse the two hundred thousand people following us embassy during this decade they also requested a second and friends you too to an individual same and they do not know you didn't deliver the second maybe they'll arrive at three hundred thousand us about the next thirteen ignition again and another hundred thousand

be dispersed in the same manner oh this time i was asked to disperse through an individual in los angeles being in the lobby of the california growing our city you delivered two hundred thousand and they did live together on a new directions or instructions to live them wanting big twice a third time yes sir and maybe something without knowing that i was born into campaigns but i did not know what was that it was going into various of the campaigns but i did not know the various of the campaigns in the nineteen seventy election year wasn't

that the state now it is i'm fine my interview intelligence the libyan background in fact i wouldn't be in the business of just walking up to strangers no nothing with no sir he's going to stop subsequently suspected yes sir you know that we all i don't know as a factor

it's common knowledge so unsettled and let one is not about the regime iran is that it is not well i think there is a belief that are all the campaign but again a center i would not have the certainty that that is true that is one thing i didn't understand your testimony related decision as to how much of this money in the order these defendants knew a lot about the decision senator an intimate eleven has been on the film room and then it would be passed from many of these individuals we start receiving certain medications and if you

really really done up words with there's no argument been almost a route that each of these people and for all the many advantages that the money was to engage people for something wrong will wonder what thoughts came along making inquiries about workforce i don't recall any good really been strange to you as a lawyer an intermediary came in the office into twenty five thousand dollars in evin exhaustion i would be suspicious yesterday the

payment plan i was at the i have a feeling that these men were anticipating call us with what i had no knowledge as to how for example he was interested in fall just any little bit of money being paid lawyers by surprise yesterday at his payment plan to show an order called the infamous bain president heard from you because of that says that presents a lot of proof most are not those years to face value because the president's counsel himself

indicated that again center of terrorism and that i've been dealing with for a year or two years at that time an absolute because spending really in the shoes of the president and the president's legal work there are no my own nature is that the brain trust the arms and i had absolute trust in this manner when he made this request of me and i didn't have that but union president council you're representing them service to being represented a microphone primarily inflation matters big enough within two for you for years the

president person on expected out within that senators what a story it would fit perfectly free community that made him a dominant quite actually look the lateral loads like these missions like the mayans mr bryant you testified at the victim finally became concerned about james bond and nature of these as an eye on the chairman of beans with our music not certain fervor go to the us they needed to have a farting i'm sure how you met with a number of times that we've invited no no

i think it was reading a testimony and depositions and at a suit filed by the democratic maybe you have been over london california's i recall the last six or so obvious stated that you had made this final lap for me and you find out they met one on july twenty six nineteen seventy two in his audience to confront a party with angel arrives and most to get naked mr eckman all those vacation a senator lol and all my mom does that first meeting

with six on your calendar so the meeting not abandon your caucus meeting certainly year ago such a meeting in yarmulkes and six and also i'm in and i don't recall that you believe and have reason to believe these matters that might have been related to the president and they never speak new apple first released and stories involving new investors reading september of last year no sir i believe you've got raising money for the defendants in september nineteen hundred and seventy to

answer did you stop a farmer and excess of caution the name and then publicly associated in that so interesting it was something that i had given him funds in the from the first of october but i read the first five or i never knowing what he was involved in and suddenly the stories we can coming out of it was something that i concern you know finding on that you thought that under eighteen

so the original by anyone that i'm the little conclusion is on raising one b for this assignment in paris is a defendant's hair living expenses that they owed a lawyer i did a good job so i would not be involved in this that was a time you've got rain money yes sir they'd rather call you after the election in november nine i was that you've raised funds for payments these defendants a lot it was a and that was after the election and after i'd raise a substantial amount of money for the reelection campaign the beginning back in november of nineteen hundred and seventy seven what was discussed in conversation it would be why

didn't you mentioned the president for all i know her reelection campaign and it was it was something following election something of a republican and on to thank the president first consul of the issues what is the line than they may be we terminated his activities that by the time clinton former president these things a normal bottom so in my view two men that the present him as a trusted and that any concern i had was secession

now but it was just that i didn't have any belief that in fact barbara but it was i had sufficient concerns about the procedures that i was following distasteful that i didn't want to be involved well thank you didn't think you were on this mean they do you thought through online service in the united states didn't i was performing a service for the people i thought probably he was talking about the senior people at the committee to reelect and possibly yes well right now you've got all the people

it's on the same team in all of your revenue service the button united states in akron you dollars and tax invasion ensure the future activities comfort in the white house and no sir lesbian call you in california january nineteen seventy three emergency room writer on elective office you know they don't even talk to me about that is the recruiter who was the thinking of coming back to california and his plan for not that lesser it this

way i don't know it was marvelous mr mcgregor was was talking to some people in california to makeup later date as to whether to return to california to seek officer now and i didn't i didn't encourage it he'd been executed a nation that time and i don't recall a specific mission in that sense of being trapped this way have to go from seeking a big call center that way many people in california and the main question

i think well i don't deny that had been calling it an uncertain as to what was said are can't recall specifically center but i did not i don't recall that i spoke to mr magruder to dissuade him from running for office let's see who already wanting that you knowledge of these and that's what rodin withstand plane my knowledge other than getting the seventy five thousand one hundred dollars on the twenty nine of my request and at which time i would not tell him nothing to mind july twenty six and my memory is that it

in early august when the west coast did not allow this to make i don't recall ever gotten a mr mitchell about this except at the meeting and has also on friday the nineteen seventy three that was one he did climb on her eye was one must mention specifically decline that was a win i've been asked on this to be the end of the trip is the subject than in an idea so that we're not mormons or so what made you think

there was in the mawkish raid on a lawyer's or bail money that its center it was a feeling and i know the time i know that i felt that in some way i had no understanding as to what's going to happen but i have to be in and so it's on to the farm and andy kirk now and the thing that someone in authority someone or more fellow at the least that could be done for the people who live in that list there followed an assignment was to

provide them with lawyers and to provide support for their families and i thought that was under the general have a moral obligation to receive it exemplified you thought they were part of a campaign to play in all right there were a team of individuals this and that human thing to do the same thing to do is to at least provide them with legal help and provide them with the support for their program in mayflower hotel you sir was it because these people same pain and engaged in a common effort to go to souter it i had no knowledge at all

in anyway to perform as to the watergate break in but i've got the time that i was talked to me that someone in authority must be feeling but in order to do that ms dane is our cause we got a mandate we got happens at what you're trying to do and also i don't remember that but i don't see how you could reach conclusion you have thought they won't same team at the time didn't see the same curve they can almost in the same camp in this episode that has bianca

torn so an authority that believes that could be done for these people is to give them this assistance to come back here thanks for the questions for senator baker probes to combat relationship of a white house run objective paul's public television's coverage of the watergate hearings will continue after station identification on average coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service by the member stations of pbs public broadcasting service the fb

the point and that continues its coverage of hearings by the senate

select committee on presidential campaign activities you again correspondent jim lehrer as we go back to that area is now senator baker is questioning her combat quite right my first impression was a project and i believe that's our side actually with this assignment was to raise money for an effective defense fund or dependent but in trying to reconstruct her testimony in the other information that i have you raised seventy five thousand dollars for mr jones with the north among both recollection that you raised any other money that was given to roost and for someone else mr eide i think senator that i did solicit mr stan yeah what was just that however was our organization that is he was the general finance chairman

the solicitation the sense that it wasn't getting her other calling on another part of the organization for four years or you see i'm not quite clear and then what the assignment was the seventy five thousand dollars obviously isn't and consequential it's a very substantial amount of hundred and forty four thousand dollars was derived from internal sources especially those fines given directly to the parties involved instead of being channeled through new article in the new yorker that leverage in a hotel lobby senator i don't know i i i know and now in retrospect i believe that there was a conscious attempt to separate the two or three or four people the actual payment you're your question is at the end of that was the only time that is

solicit funds from an outside convener was from that you know if you don't mind him about burning this record too extensively would you tell me once again how you were initially contacted by phone and i was appalled earlier midafternoon california time on the twentieth june one yesterday in response to mr vince request that i come back to washington for a very important assignment on the first available plane like okay like ten fifteen twenty thirty that night from marseilles who want to stop that must've been importing any information as to the nature of there's no surrogate not that indicative of fundraising activity was originally collected nelson upon arrival in washington i

went to the staff checked in and buy the climate changed and breakfast and all that was probably not at all my memory then is that i've been called mr bean in his office in the executive office building told helena's to be in the us here in washington that that could come over to his office to meet with him to discuss what every atom in on it and then told me that now it was the first time senator the new government center puts them in the other than in his office i don't remember ever meeting them in front of a hotel or an apartment or an upturn i'm not trying to lead you into this threat and i'm just trying to get the feel for the circumstances your reaction to an unverified because that's what

point you became concerned and apprehension but in india that that was unusual at least to the extent that you've never done it before did it raise any other concerns he had decided what a distraction while and i've been there and strike at any idea where you want to talk about it i then went to earth or in front of the indian immigrants that in front of a church on the corner krosnick adams i noticed that it had been walking up through the park and then the light crust overnight him as he came up through the through the park and i think i suggested that we might go over the antlers and probably yeah instead as i recall that the notice walking in a park and and talk we walk over and forty four ways in and stop

a lab bench and talk and it was at that point that the got into this assignment senate we would like to have you undertake the assignment to raise funds for these people who are involved in and this watergate break in raising funds so that they will have legal help and raising funds for the support of their families and he's something despite us can do we was really were not parker too it must not have or i would've asked him but i just felt that he was the same way in this again in that context center by association is mad over the two years that was the end of that he asked this

the doctor too that there might be something other strange about a white house and all my principal staff foresman this case mr bain in this fund raising effort for defendants literacy problems of the city at that time and obviously we're going to be charged with a serious offense of that voice and the ripples of concern senator that night and i know that this has been given very involving matters involving the committee to relax and it was probably were in a circle that's but i know that that association the committee to relax so you're asking me to take on the system and i did not a question of it would've been inconceivable as i've said the senator for me to believe that this man asked me to do something

illegal and this is the point i really like to inquire about combat you may or may not know that with other witnesses on occasion i asked for their perception of the arrangement a situation or even the institution of the present see that would cause them to act or fail to act a particular way you visualize in that they can you visualize any other person or situation the whole wide world which you have done this other than a representative of a point almost certainly mr dana had been asked to talk to me because they knew the relationship i have with this man and a relationship of trust you see what i'm striving for once again is what is there about the nature of the white house or the presidency or of the aura that surrounds it for that would cause you

to act without question without concern was apparently did placing greater a lot although whether requests because of the georgians is that total ruins trucks they sat on your reverence for the institution of the presidency on your personal friendship with a more long range within the presenter mr dean i was a composite so i make it with a composite of all of that it ever occur to you to you know you've testified that she spoke to mr mayor verify for every kurd you speak with the president about it to find out whether he knew what was going on or did not know what was going on no sir i've also been talking to mr vernon when i was talking to someone who would give me the reassurance that i require and i did not get to talk to the

press and you were just as you have not spoken to the press about watergate a level you did talk to on the night of the election no sir that was several days last sometime shortly after that one gesture after the event's a vital acute matters and after the continuing publicity and thought about after the defendants were indicted and tried convicted after you had a greater source of information knowledge than you had at the time first met with us today

after looters are really before the grand jury they never occur to you to talk to the president about this and find out what the situation was or how this situation might relate to him no senator i get older in this period he's going to tell mr erlichman left the white house i have the feeling they always that these men were actually being destroyed at the absolute trust of the president and all i had was this but this concern i had no certainty at all center that there was an enterprising the level of concern that i had was simply it was

inviting me to the point that i would not be involved in what i did not know that it was that it was in fact what it is and it is often disagree i just had that level of concern and here was mr mr dean continuing the white house my concern it's not based on anything in at all but it was sufficient for me theater at that early time to have a visit about later time would you say three months later have undertaken the same assignment and also about him what would have changed your mind what factor when it once again be the accumulation of a composite bats or you describe it for middle letter goes awry i think that my first was

approached within a matter of days after this breaking wind as it was just to add no question the lead secrecy and all that plus the press plus the other things the cable raised the level of concern which which was washed out actually when i spoke with mr erlichman the twenty six literally no knowledge of this telephone calls and does the accumulation of that and of the press and other factory was a vision that i any longer or not that you

didn't wanna be involved any longer at that boy go the property you that your concern was that great that there was some obligation or at least an opportunity to take this matter up the presidency if he was aware of all the circumstances no certainty about history being and minister a parliament that this was proper and go forward and frankly my concern was based on the sickest in these procedures forty six cents to have gone into the person i have not met with about the more than four five times rather than in social going over this entire throughout this period where you still it's a personal journey of that to ensure that such things just take care of his personal business affairs insurance actions what about the

preparations and contact answer we're involved was murdered dealing always drew mr irwin or mr ydstie and i'm still a little perplexed here we have a man had known the president for a long time and his first workout you accepted a job an effect on clay became concerned about concern to the point that he sought out a verification of the authority of the survey do you do this assignment and later became so concerned that you disengaged from i surely the body the substance of your concern some point must a record a warning like that there's trouble here at least trouble potentially trouble for you it never one for the light that there might be trouble for the prisoners but it didn't do that there was

no secrecy that was the primary press the accumulation as you put it under the composite of several factors but it never reached the point in my mind where i felt that i should go to the person i had been a shorter version of his men and three and earlier by mr bain we go forward in this and i thought it would be presumptuous of me to take it the un my own decision this is how big mr cobb but i really don't think i can ask you to help me with the inquiry that i'm trying to make because it in turn will be answered it's ever answered by the composite of the testimony of several witnesses in my

perception of their testimony what i'd really like to find out is what would cause you to act in the way you get on other witnesses fact the way they did you've been fairly explicit in your answers in that respect more importantly am trying to find out what their is about the presidency or the white house of the spec house that would cause in the case of the testimony mr mitchell if it is accepted that they say a man a public servant i can't offer to make the catch his decision not to arrest or in your case to be concerned concerned that point for many reasons that you chose to disengage from this but never told the press what is there about it that says you know i'm never going to lose it's not something that i and then a concern him with what what is there about the nature of the situation and that way it is not that for instance with

my conception of a long friendship for attorney client relationship what is or that moderate in what otherwise would expect to be a normal oreo i wasn't the new relationship sutter easy access and i have not seen the president in other that again in other than and social gatherings for instance seventy one that easy access to quito maybe then you can ever having easy access to modern precedent united states to occur in temperatures what are you telling me in the fact that the question of easy access caused you to act in a white paper from the lie you would have acted had there been easy access to the press no but again i think at the root of those centers that i talk to the man that i knew would be not his right arm

mr altman and his left arm mr erlichman i have expressed myself in this man this man was in and the total confidence of the president is a man that i dealt with really through these through the years been in legal workers the president's alter ego i thought that i'd communicated through that bass just kind of visceral feel that i had from the family nature's secrets in all i thought it was not something that i would want would go to the president well about easy access just for a moment more the very pocket situation he does that create in effect a little president created a man who was so important as you put at least the left and the prison that you couldn't verify the authority of another person that that would obliterate them your mind any concern propriety of these actions does the creation of that

relationship at some bearing on your isolation or your lack of access to the press and to the extent that you might have actually a different way of john ehrlichman had not been their investors without authority to get visceral feelings have led to than if you have easy access first book and jack with these visceral feelings at like you know the presence of some people and i don't like it i'm getting that i suggest you look into it might be a benefit mr jeff buhl product wrapped up and

so all these are stances that without revenue only don't you say reparations for the families the powerful local people and i don't want it that some stolen two hundred and one thousand dollars yes sir we're in the money

all right all else those members wanted to know when did you know that raise the us as a resident jumped on if the distribution of this month in through the exit ago nasa wants us to see you on the american people as mr chairman the my understanding was that i was being given an assignment that those are very confidential and was actually carried forty well what then you know all that great

you know simon if you're going to talk about it remember the reason and the world

germany's election year as was the case in mid year nineteen seventy two i was the reason for the cop and it out in absolute secrecy was for that purpose in and this interpretation no no it sends them at cuteness right to set up the distribution this one and the advantage of the partisan redistricting and family have been a part of it is that it is long the reason

for these individuals and for attorneys and the reason for the requirements was expressed is that justified now you have a real relationship no sir you alone him up one thousand dollars and then scatter well given him a check for one thousand dollars you will get your check of the securities that the real lightning seven to four hundred thousand dollars and with this artist ok at the same day

that is that again when asked me to do or it was a rational and that swing well probably do you ask now you take it's a good if they didn't that was not the number on

illegally or destruction of any records of their money since you know they knew that this was the problem nineteen sixty six nineteen sixty eight election mr chairman i have testified that i get over to the finance committee and what i considered to be the bass original records for all of my activities which included an accounting for what i just words a relationship i certainly did and the law while that no one who are making people records of these transactions and i think that does it is true the chairman of both produced here was to maintain records which i did i know that

when the city stands revealed with him and give him a separate cage i said yes an example all the records that i read which were in my view a ritual and supportive of the record that given that i felt that i wanted to destroy it again for the purpose mr chairman that i want to protect the confidentiality of my relationship to the people that i've talked to so you destroy the right order

with that one exception and you did that you know right directly reply and that the messages than the parties so they can determine from the wreck of the retaining all the contributions he received that going to the people who make them well you know now in the morning you know the surveillance several pages involving that gun tracing

those funds the way through the various options in this first issue in this economy i don't know it was very specific you

anticipated thank you and he really loves her it was and i was you didn't have that you would on anything you know election nears her and he didn't name all suspected bin laden had in mind when you are mr jones well well you know that's the

race a month of religion i always said and the idea that especially well i don't know well no not then you believe that the time tested also debuts this package of money that though he believed you raise in campaign funds the president's campaign will you were raising money what do we

know right now you can see that i understand that you have to go on the impression that you're raising his fall campaign purposes jeff brady reporting you won't ya you know man i got the amount oil

that we're interested in raising funds through all the available fb