thumbnail of 1974 Nixon Impeachment Hearings; 1974-07-29; Reel 1 of 6
Hide -
If this transcript has significant errors that should be corrected, let us know, so we can add it to FIX IT+
it's been long long long road ladies and gentlemen is whether an abusive park falls within the meaning of the phrase the high crimes and we can defeat and a lot of eighth you've been in that article are uniquely presidential oath and say no one of the internet in your ira you are the most lonely and violate any of that back into our criminal code only the president and violate the oath of office of the
president only the president and abused the powers of the office of the president lula who now have value add live from washington and gavel to gavel coverage of the house judiciary committee was impeachment of a july twenty nine nineteen seventy four year is and correspondent jim lehrer good at abuse in the constitutional powers and the oath of his office that is one of the most serious charges that can be leveled against a president of the united states and it is on the verge of being written and that history is a formal accusation against richard m nixon as those night session of the house
judiciary committee complained there is expected to be a final vote on the charter article two in the impeachment accusations against the president sometime tonight and it is certain that it will be about probably by similar margins saturday night's vote on article was based on the indications during today's debate it seemed clear that the twenty seven political action against the president is holding it might even go to twenty eight when the tv camera makes it second dramatic irony trip back and forth now those long tables tonight this inevitability comes on a day that has already been a bad one for the president's late this morning john conkling former secretary of the treasury and pardoned nixon man was indicted by a federal grand jury here in washington he is charged with perjury bribery and obstruction of justice growing out of the milk on cates carney said in houston later today that he was innocent of all wrongdoing and predicted that he would eventually be vindicated
i'm poor group and as jim just indicated we're now standing by waiting for the house judiciary committee began its night session on this day of the impeachment debate beyond all the other developments many republicans are now conceding impeachment as almost surely to be voted by the house when the judiciary committee finishes wrapping its resolution in fact some gop members are now suggesting as many as fifty to sixty more than one third of the house republican membership will reserve the president and vote for impeachment there also are reports that substantial numbers of southern democrats will vote against mr nixon know i go these indications senate leaders mansfield and scott met today to begin making plans for a formal trial of the president in the senate assuming the house does indeed approve an impeachment resolution later next month as for the judiciary committee which will be a sermon shortly as i said just a moment ago
what happened earlier today was a continuation of efforts by republican supporters of mr nixon the limit the charges against the president of the presidents defenders lost on a succession of boats designed to modify article to making a plane the article will be approved without significant change understandably mr nixon supporters are disheartened especially since it now appears article two will be approved by essentially the same margin as article one on saturday night the republican mood was report was reflected in the comments of the committee's top gop congressman edward hutchinson of michigan who talked earlier with carolyn louis mr hutchinson i have you think the president's prospects are going to be on the floor after the solid boat that we had on saturday night well of course in the committee was a strictly partisan so far as the democratic side out of concern
and that all the republicans are more divided now i don't think that that will necessarily reflect a vote on the house of his house for foods and i do there will be some democratic votes i think that singing the number one republican in the full house minority leader john rhodes of arizona suggested today that the president go on national television to lay out his full defense and of course that raises the basic question of what mr nixon is doing or more importantly what you can do now
chris paul who has been covering the white house for us has taken a look at these two questions chris there's no indication janitor the president will go on television certainly no indication from the white house in fact it seems unlikely at this point for vice president for the sweetener a news conference in san francisco today make that clear also he said that he felt the best way for the president to make his case against impeachment is to leave it to as he put it the abel man who can defend his case before congress but what the vice president says will necessarily go in the white house but i think it's extremely unlikely in as to what the president can do now that's a tough question has been singled out with white house confidence expressed by the un aides to the president but the question is whether the provinces in fact shared by the president and the war ii accusations leveled against president nixon certainly among them have not been stricken and they are not being politically astute fight on his
hands of it and i have to fight to have to do it any way he possibly can without causing an evening kick back hall kickback that were two years beginning and repercussions in terms of putting on too much pressure and i would say in that there and discussing what the president can do that you'd come up with a very short list in the us one prison guard and the overt act that he could commit in terms of trying to prevent a vote in the house and sarah minnich is not too many options what's also difficult and figure out exactly what the white house is doing as opposed to what the white house says it's not the end you have the white house saying for example that its congressional liaison stuff has not even taking an actual headcount in the house things like that work seems a little difficult to swallow there's no doubt that the president must fight in the house in an
incentive in order to do that he's got to move in supporters and sympathizers in the house and obviously and senate and have to resist congressional liaison people and anyone can get jim what do you know is now rather precariously holding his yellow which indicates that for a refreshing change we may be getting underway almost on time i see that most of the committee members had arrived in their seats or are in iran at least anyway as we said just a few moments ago this is the third night session for the judiciary committee which began its formal deliberations last wednesday evening and house members to return them in an early version and also the negotiations and the caucuses
and in the discussions of a possible change in the language in this article for twelve and done over sunday also this morning the long lunch break out at a dinner break in the wording is very well been resolved in terms of being pro impeachment majority and so that's one of the reasons of course that they have insulated coming back a lot of the great things that they have been working on a line of more workman like oh we're standing by waiting for the judiciary committee to begin its proceedings we would like to inform you that we do have two resident experts with this again tonight to help us interpret the proceedings by jack murphy and stephen hetz jack murphy at georgetown university and steven has from the brookings institution and there you say german rubio who apparently really means business this time
he's going to get underway in relatively on time is banged his gavel once and now we wait a second the discussion and it is over they substituted offered a substitute amendment the article to offer by congressman condit of mozart's we talk about one union and the references to the gates of tension that's what they're referring to behind it is playing the same role on article to a conference of areas of maryland played on article one and we do expect the final vote tonight on the ear and a substitute perhaps within about two hours of war the committee will come to order and the committee recess the committee was debating the motion to strike barbara rainey and those in opposition to
the amendment that consumed eight minutes one of the men in that consume five minutes and i now recognize that the gentleman from california has to intersect this theory of five minutes of my time with them violent and a man is recognized by thank you mr chairman of this family would impeach the president they're setting up the special investigative unit would have us believe that that there was just no national security involved in this at all well then why was it called a plumber it's the plumber was called a pars because its purpose was to plug leaks secret information vital to the middle seat hear it in the united states there were many
instances where those leaks have occurred i mentioned several of them are just before the recess there was the secret united states intelligence boards report and what it estimated the soviet union's strategic strang and the russians first strike capacity a matter of great importance to our defenses well i was a leak while government official to a reporter who read it in the press for the russians information there was the disclosure by one of our senior officials at least all the newspaper reporter said mr siebert fallback position our final offer in the salt talks are strategic arms limitations negotiations in helsinki in nineteen seventy one our
negotiators they're negotiating team were trying to achieve as much security for the united states as possible nuclear attack baggage which we had on the table where in dealing with the russians was asking them to stop the construction of all nuclear missiles both land and submarine based but according to another report or one of our senior officials confided in him that we were willing to sell for less that we didn't really expect to get that much security from the russians and if they turn this mound we would be willing to settle for just abandon construction of land based missiles and let him go ahead with the submarine base following that was printed in a newspaper and the russians read it you can imagine what they have
been through our chances of getting that more secure arlington va greater protection for our country that was definitely a security which needed to be then there was the release of the pentagon papers by daniel ellsberg mosul in june of nineteen seventy one of course ellsberg had been identified so that case is somewhat different because the president's highest national security and foreign policy advisors had warning that it was extremely important that these officials were leaking this information be identified and stop well ellsberg had been identified but it was by no means certain that he would not leak more information only part of the pentagon papers had been published at that time it was known what it would go ahead with a rest in there was also reasonable either get additional information i'm
john ehrlichman and it an affidavit sworn affidavit that in april this year testified that in a week or ten days after the publication of the first pentagon papers these papers which related to our decision making process is in a war which was still going on in which american troops are still in combat which kissinger was trying to settle and sensitive negotiations in paris henry kissinger that with him and the president and told them about early on about daniel ellsberg and told them that he was and i quote and knowledge of very critical defense secrets of current validity such is no clear of the term and targeting i'm reading from page six twenty one books seven part two
and i continue to grow having never heard of ellsberg before the theft of the paper's my impression from kissinger's description was that the nation was presented with a very serious for potential security problem beyond the theft of the largely historical pentagon papers i later learned that the papers themselves were relieved by defense experts to contain vital secrets dr kissinger told the president that the theft may be a very difficult bar foreign relations with allies with whom we shared classified information and these meetings both the president and actor kissinger were obviously deeply concerned and all assumed that one additional a minute but while the president's ladies and gentlemen of the committee fell on the
advice of his poses foreign policy national defense advisors that he had to act to protect the national security to stop these leaks and my judgment and perhaps years he acted unwisely in setting up a special investigative unit headed by a brave young man who had no investigative experience i believe and i think you do that it would've been much better to rely on the fbi with that experience in this field and would have known the legal limits and the practical limits in which to carry out a proper national security investigation what is the president of the united states to be impeached because he made an error in judgment because he was not perfect in his decision to act quickly and necessarily to protect the national defense is that a high crime and misdemeanor not the letter perfect and the performance of your office i think matt and i think this round alleged round of
impeachment simply should not receive serious consideration by government gentlemen as consumer the minute i recognize and the gentleman from california mr walter reed that like with chairman of chairman i think this particular issue is one of the most serious offenses alleged against the president it relates back to one of the remarks and i'm at the opening session of this committee when i suggested that the liberties of this country were enormously fragile and have been subjected to an assault the likes of which we have not seen in a lifetime and i think this particular case the field in breaking particularly as an activity of the plan indicates the insensitivity of the president to the constitutional obligations that he had as the president of this country to protect the people in their liberties wannabe they seek stability
a free society is that the law enforcement authorities it is a couple and the moment to destroy accountability of law enforcement authority you jeopardize an endangered freedom of individual citizens and when the president did not the opportunity of the legitimate law enforcement institutions of this government the federal bureau of investigation and the central intelligence agency denied taking his problems with security to them for resolution and sought to set up an extracurricular secret police force accountable to no one in the us government or in the society accepted the president individual him as an as a person he and my view was in a major way interfering with the constitutional protections that have been set up to protect liberty now for the president's defenders to
suggest that it was an extraordinary departure from the institutions of law enforcement but warranted because of the threat of national security the burden is then clearly upon them to establish that the activities of the plumbers were in fact designed to protect the national security and i call attention to what i thought was in the very important important statement of my colleagues to congress from michigan where he pointed out that we must now once and for all draw a line with the use of national security as an excuse for all sorts of the legal and illicit activities generally that was all the erosion of freedom and just to test whether or not national security really was the protests oh there's a burglary in california when dr phil deans officers were brokered by the plumbers to procure access
to the psychiatric files of daniel ellsberg allegedly for a national security purpose but in reality to interfere with the trial that was to begin involving dr ellsberg you only have to examine the language of the president in his conversations with mr dean on march twenty first been marked seventy are expiring well i appreciate that the fight it's hard for me to complete a sentence when i went to analyze a conversation but let me just i appreciate i do i refer to march twenty first and
the conversation that i will be reading will be a description of how the ellsberg case became a national security clearance the president is told by dean about the break him out there and he says the president said i don't know what the hell we did that for an indian said i don't either and the president said what in the name of god did that and then move on to pay two hundred and twelve march twenty first transcript and the president says properly versatility ellsberg thing i don't know what the hell holmes as but workers a year why dont know presence as well as the answer on that how do you keep that out i don't know what we can get it out if you see the point is that as the relevant these days you might you might put it on a national security grounds basis which it really it was almost as it was in pieces just say that the president says you know well as iranian faces
at the gentleman from california as eight minutes to remain obviously you four minutes and my colleague from ohio joan flyers that has waves that i think that's on california's about a lot of that we have thus far and they say yum he mentioned one conversation and i think that we'll go back to our conversation is never been promoting to do that and i have referenced to the first time of a president united states found out about this months after the break and that's the conversation we are between the president john dean on march seventeen nineteen seventy three us raid that dean the other potential problem is
and this is the president's programs that in connection with howard dean says in connection with hunt and liddy both for enquiries they work for him again they do you thought had to be some hideous and we learn after the fact they went out and went and the doctor ellsberg's doctor's office and they had they were geared up with all the cia equipment cameras and the like well i turned the stuffed back into the cia at some point in time and left the film in the camera goods whose i might invest the cia has not put this together and they don't know what the army is right now the president
says one in the well walk in the name of blank was going to happen something and this is unintelligible in the over as the first time ever heard of months after this had taken place dean says there were trying to visit a part of the operation that in connection with the pentagon papers they were the whole thing they want to get aldeburgh psychiatric record for some reason i don't know president well that's the first i ever heard of as i unintelligible again of grantham and really good care about albert we're not our problem that's right ozone from our has mentioned something about the fbi not getting into this case i think we better talk about that that before our committee
the late j edgar hoover happen to know the father lot of mr alvin and the fbi was not responding to the prodding of the administration they get on with investigating these leaks which are i showered for and conserve only one we get on down a very common article themselves as jack i knew that jon as they adapt and its remaining cow is reckoned with german it was my intention to discuss the houston plan verify for the
benefit of our members the origin of that plan and to demonstrate that it was a planned of the top security people in this country recommended to the president of the united states and he acted in pursuant to their advice approve their plan for a period of about four or five days and then after a cancelled his prior approval upon the recommendation of the attorney general i only intended to take the time and the third because some of my colleagues seem to be concerned about that four or five day period of approval by the president of the united states in nineteen seventy rather in my remaining moment mr chairman i want to try to place those plumbers issue in its proper fall but the question is not whether the creation of the plumbers were justified there is no longer a regulation or rule more active congress prohibiting a president of the united states from establishing a unit within the executive branch for the purpose of ornately intelligence activities
that's not the issue you issue rather is whether or not the activities of that unit once created constitute an impeachable offense with respect to the president we know that if they do not unless the president approve them have knowledge of them acquiesced and then i don't know what we now know as a result of the splendid contribution of my friend from ohio that the president did not learn of these activities with respect about revealing for nearly eighteen months after they have the first time you learned about now the question of believing in pink ink because he took an improper act upon learning of that activity the president without question ladies and gentleman without question regarding the pentagon papers matter as a national security issue it is idle to talk about
whether a conviction is proper under the espionage act those acts as my colleagues that the best no in blockading a foreign power it wasn't the motive of dr albert ladies and gentlemen it was the fact of this closure whatever his motive the prejudice the united states of america and the president's actions were prompted by reason of the fact of disclosure rather than any subject the motive of dr albert do you do at a foreign power a fact that will be very important in a prosecution under the espionage act that the issue at the issue whether or not after the seventeenth of march nineteen seventy three when the president won that enactment create which happened about a year and a half prior to that whether he acted prudently given his state of knowledge and belief at that time and i'm telling you that the weight of the
evidence the overwhelming weight of the ad is that richard nixon didn't leave the pentagon papers the issue was a national security issue and his actions after learning march of nineteen seventy one were wholly seventy three were wholly consistent with that really fun is far out of a majority of this committee really believes that a president of the united states should be impeached because if not his honest and that they believe that the security of this nation is in jeopardy and the decisive and bold action is required on his part and sold it but ladies and gentlemen you live without judgment history is going to judge you know if you make that this is not a proper ground to impeach the president you know i think it about them recognize me gentlemen from maryland there was
sarbanes for three minutes it mr chairman i think it's very important for the members of this committee and the american people are appreciate exactly what the plumbers bid in the field in breaking the plumbers broke and the doctor fielding softens after fielding was not under suspicion they went into his office in order to get one of his files on one of his patients and i ask every doctor and we're an insurance agent and i can't win the country what kind of land which you'll be living in a folk group of the hired hands have the power to come in to your office in the dead of night in order to get one of your father i'll if the purpose was legitimate why didn't they obtain those files in a lawful manner and the answer that is of course a purpose was not legitimate who are the plumbers they were a band of hired hands they were not law enforcement officials
why wasn't the fbi brought into this matter if it was a legitimate a matter for governmental action because the plumbers were going absolutely legal things that the fbi refused to do and that does go back to the houston plan of the previous year when this trial accused been put forward to the president and had approved a plan that involves surreptitious entry in a memo that says the activity involves illegal and for an f post a surreptitious and tree that same houston report provided for covert male coverage and the fbi added a footnote and said the fbi is opposed implementing any covert male coverage because it is clearly illegal they could not use the fbi because the fbi was not prepared do these illegal less water one other band from lands that the farmers get their
money where'd the money come from in order to do this operation ladies and gentleman it came from private sources mr rudy a pr man here in washington a close friend of mr paulson's states in an affidavit in the latter part of august from the first part of september mr colson telephone me and told me that the white house had an urgent need for five thousand dollars three top five thousand dollars over paulson's office and they called it going to go down to an office and give it to the thought that he would find it and that was illegal crawl that had a plumber here so really goes down there with his five thousand dollars in cash and visit the crowed he takes it and there they said if you look in there to see what was open the envelope to see this was money inside of it was in the form of their legislative mr paulson anything about the forum in which you wanted the farm as he wanted them in cash wall i believe because it was felt that there shouldn't be any way to trace the money that was you
the minutes of the gentleman has expired i recognize in the gentleman from massachusetts father john this fiasco call the plumbers had three hands studies project ellsberg david young end of the plumbers and the president's eighteen month later gave it the name of special investigative unit it with a little anger over an unlawful from the beginning that people can have the good sense to decline the job that was offered to him to be head of the bombers and on july eight nineteen seventy one he gave the best description of the purpose of ban project ellsberg he wrote in a mountain is the parliament that this is a project for a three month period to link the pentagon papers with the left wing newspapers and people of america was no national security and bob mr patrick and i had an alternative which we thought was about let's undertaken major public
attack on the brookings institution everyone over the pentagon papers except nell the land ten days after they were released he said that ninety eight percent of the pentagon papers who have been and should have been declassified the hysteria i assure you was created months after when the identity of the bombers came out images a claire's grief on page ninety four he said that the special investigative unit was created for in an entirely legal manner and i don't think can support that because this is entirely outside the ordinary away that the executive branch of government operates this is a blackened seats at a moment sign that there was a shift in the units way of acting but he said that the purpose was legitimate he failed to tell us why they have sterile follows wherever they are in this little cubbyhole in the executive office building and why you needed special passes to enter the second and why in tow the files of a law the cia they regularly violated that prohibition against any internal
security matters of the cia this daily penis and testify before this committee on july twelve and he said there is no area of violations of federal criminal laws which is not covered by existing statute and that if there is any residual jurisdiction to go to them about when a justice i suggest therefore that this was political an unlawful from the beginning and the names came later if the president says that there is an epidemic of leaks that is not substantiated by the evidence and let me quote you one justification that has come out today in a minority report from this committee that demonstrates that hysteria still going and without i close and this statement says investigation of the bombers as far as the imaginations indeed english and they can read the new york times candidate joe miller has expired i recognize the gentleman from maine was on a three minutes
my attention to the final sentence of this the car grab by the president of the differences the constitutional rights of the accused with fair trial several days ago the time when new jersey made a statement that we must view the totality of the evidence that the sandman is absolutely correct because only by doing all of the evidence and we traced the threads of attitude of action that we have a pattern of spirit and conduct that is the very basis of our investigation i would call your attention to the september fifteen seventy two conversation between the president of the homeowners to dean whereby with mr dane indicated be talking about edward bennett williams which time the presence as were going after van hollen is the guy we got a row of getting under age ten i think that the effects of paraphrasing the us okay libby were going to we got to think of the batman i think this statement is relevant with specter the awkward matter mr paulson told
us that he told the court that on several occasions the president urged golson to disseminate information about ellsworth and also his attorney this is the same actor which was to call somewhat guilty for corruptly endeavoring to obstruct the criminal trial by devising and implementing a scheme to defame destroy the public image and credibility of elsewhere in my opinion it was the program he should've been prosecuted but ostrau ship and go on tour with a full conclusion according to due process of law what was done elsewhere divided they want from other than about said to his adversaries i won't sue you i'll ruin you the administration did not just a tissue a prosecutor ellsberg was wrongdoing they set out a road map that ladies and gentlemen of this meeting is not only contrary to the spirit of our constitution is also controversial law stated mckay says the us against rogue and colson a man cannot set attack dogs loose with general
instructions to stop in this forum at any cost and then say that he is not responsible on the constitutional rights of citizens i should have to pay earlier in addition to the craft wiretap having no criminal or national security bases it was done by a consultant to the committee to re elect the president which makes it totally illegal in addition to the attorney general recused the necessity it wiretaps on national security matters every ninety days and this practice was not followed respect any of the seventeen individual taxes the president authorized not like they read from a transcript of a conversation between the president and dean on february twenty eight nineteen seventy three on wiretaps and they were just talking about the time magazine story which reveal the wire taps at the white house
the president says sure and the dea and respect to insist on weight you see after working with lego our offer muskie and he says our president says incidentally ed muskie do anything bad on there unintelligible henry unintelligible at least i know not because i know that i know that he asked that it be done and i assumed that it was like and how their both that this is the president of the tax were to i never can of the gentleman has expired all time has expired and the question out there is i'm the wings of lemon spiked paragraph ree all those in favor of the motion to strike please signify by saying ah was apollo those appeared at those haven't been the amendment is not agreed recognize the gentleman from texas mr brooks
mr chairman of this debate we have neglected the most vital part of this article being section one i think it is a bit like get through this and that activated the primary area of abuse that subject to the american be reduced violent crime and images that debate and that all of those members who have an interest in presenting the facts on this matter second one and those who are opposed to it i have an amendment to the debt strike second one which will move cargo lady and man and by mr brooks strike some paragraph one hundred saab saturn and the gentleman from texas is recognized in accordance with the rule recently adopted by unanimous consent gentleman recognizes that those twenty minutes in opposition to the moment and twenty
minutes and support you the gentleman controls the twenty minutes of the forties mr chairman our best that the time that i would use be deducted from the time of that of the opponents of this so that the proponents of it would not suffer in any way would have a full twenty minutes that you live with that would you give them as they see as a request without objection mr nixon's political involvement in evanston issues are rare for political purposes in violation of individual civil rights it clearly documented in events that occurred on september the fifteenth nineteen seventeen in the papal meeting between the president of the hall and one investigating there is no question that there was some discussion as to how efforts were going you get the irs institute
audit investigation for mr nixon political enemies show the evidence involving mr nixon's efforts to misuse the irs as not be made available this committee the transcription it does not include the last seventeen minutes of this meeting with all alone and being on september the fifth and yet leaving his testified during that time there was a specific discussions about the plan to use irs watch these are pretty it drives the report has listened to be interacting and has announced in open court they're both seventeen minutes do indeed involve conversation relating to the abuse of the irs is tense made those seventy minutes available domestic or was he went on to restrain put on him by the us court of
appeals has been unable to revive him the committee used to say this connection has not made this portion of the tape available throughout his fight is continuing protestation that he intends to cooperate fully with our investigation now we can only use the evidence that we have and that evidence the september fifteenth a judge to recuse announcement john dean's testimony that johnny ward his testimony clearly indicates that there was a definite inserted by misuse internal revenue service for personal and political gain and mr chairman our constitutional safeguards protecting individual rights and restraint government power need a little to a president who would
use the irs for thank you started back i would reserve about to my camp of those who are both around they were these proposition as chairman general julian assange and i'm alone on any position of famine because i can't figure out and i couldn't yesterday well we're not the proponent of the motion of fright really once that motion area if he does the empire for instance and i'm a lot of other people here in their senses now before i come and i would like to hear from the gentleman from texas do you really want a strike let me know how i should proceed gentleman from places with as an ivy league actually i thought i had made clear them i think we spend the new jersey that in the interest of debate are getting the facts about just what
happened to the irs how it was used to poland to doing what they did and i thought we ought to have a small hints of the people of this country and so this committee and fully evaluate just what happened and i don't want to have every advantage of a full twenty minutes to discuss why issues that's fine but i'm still have one and all you want to emotion practice you're not necessarily you be mine yeah i do that you know do anymore that viable time because it is obvious that this is a game i can hear the alarm and quite a few games here and day you are many more serious
about writing this article and my friend from alabama was yesterday is fighting many of the articles of the tribe's right a mindful of the fact that they tell me we have about twenty percent audience which is about forty four million people into your exposure to and maybe you can convince them with some of your generalities as a purpose beyond all this i know what you know and forty four million people know make no mistake about i like to feel sometimes with some of the members of this line and i like to yield to the gentleman from indiana most of that make america sam and i would like to say mr chairman that if i felt that the evidence here are substantiated me internal revenue service had been misused and
abused for improper political or discriminatory purposes i would take a very dim view of that myself i would do so even though that use this abuse and discrimination has not been unfairly and no and yes the administration does that would not constitute a de france now even though nobody bothered to fool with it and i believe that for instance a bit in his diaries of a late drew pearson says that the late harry s truman turned the irs loose on him at one time and it doesn't make it any better if it was done now but i think it's good thing to bear in mind that we have a certain amount of phylis hypocrisy in these
proceedings from time to time and the truth of the matter is that there really isn't any evidence connected with the president again if you please which were always sort of slough it over here the president did anything out of the way about the ira casson all the only thing anybody even attempts to say is a conversation or september fifteen and as a matter of fact present doesn't refer to the irs and a conversation he says we have not used the power in his first four years he's you know we've never use it we only used the bureau that's the fbi and we haven't used the justice department he doesn't talk about the irs as a matter of fact but the interesting thing is that all our conversation is is talking anyway now it's not going to all
it would be damaging talk if there was something to be shown at the president never followed up a lot but i haven't seen any of this record where the president can follow jennifer new jersey's you five minutes the gentleman from texas is the generality of no towers recognize thank you for yielding bark out as much as masters i distinguish friend of yours that man and others requires specificity on many of the fight and i feel it's appropriate that it be provided within this field of the youth of the internal revenue service there are other items for example long a nineteen seventy one nineteen seventy two mr john dean who had
authority to work as liaison between the white house and for a conservative i obtained confidential internal revenue information about the rather large number of people and they're under your direction efforts were made at the internal revenue service conduct audits on certain persons who were low on popularity within the white house this is born out on march thirteen nineteen seventy three for example in a conversation when they all a lot of the president laugh mr deane if you need anything from the irs and he responded that he didn't at that time he said he now had sources in the irs to get whatever he needed without any further trouble along in the spring of nineteen seventy two political campaigns warming up and they thought number john ehrlichman and others in the white house thought it would be good to get some information on lawrence o'brien who is chairman of the democratic national committee they had found that in an
investigation our view is there was some information indicating a financial connection mr o'brien mr erlichman in nineteen seventy two instructed treasury secretary sure to investigate an interview ryan about his tax returns because the president was interested thereafter because of inquiry the irs that interview mr o'brien and the show for the results of the interview didn't indicate anything particularly bad so on august twenty nine folds together with treasury secretary shall together with mark walters of the internal revenue service decided that they would do nothing further about o'brien they notified erlichman that they were dropping the matter and of course mr erlichman strenuously object they would leave alone at that point couple of days later an early september mr erlichman got in touch from harvard umbach the president's loyalty personal journey and fundraiser and gold hallmark of what the las vegas nevada and plant the story with angry one of the las
vegas sun refused to do so but this is a part of the pattern of misuse of the internal revenue for the gemini review i think the german wielding this this is one of the areas that i mentioned i was concerned about an opening statement i want to express the feeling that i share that concern that was expressed by the gentleman from laila ms germain and they just say that this story is why we call that an argument that the story is that in the respective top official a top officials of government clearly tried to misuse their power good in that respect but in this particular case contrary to many of the other aspects of the watergate affair there were some good people in the administration
that rejected and thought that it was a blatant misuse of power the facts are these the trouble me so much i realized that other administrations have been guilty of summer activities but certainly i don't think on the massive scale of this was attempted on september eleventh and being the five hundred and ninety my name's to internal revenue commissioner and asked him to audit those persons returns what is an irs audit what is an on will begin with the taxpayers as different a show or incomplete justification for everything use within the tax return itself the irs agent has access to finally turn an audit of civil cases can go back three years and in the criminal case of criminal fraud is suspected they can go back without limit and check in annual returns
taxpayers also the agent must be it by the taxpayer accessed all records involving deductions medical bills information regarding outstanding loans another significant financial data if the irs agent suspects are thin income received in that reporting we will prepare a network analysis and to do this he will interview friends neighbors associates to determine the taxpayers lifestyle oftentimes the taxpayer will have to hire a lawyer worked an accountant at an expense to him many of my constituents have complained about irs audits other direct evidence that we have we have testimony by john dean along these lines this was conducted by mr doerr of john dean and secret session this list of five hundred ninety one names are a group of mcgovern's supporters and contributors yeah
new jersey it's interesting to note that third element california ms adelson has given me an opportunity to prove beyond all reasonable doubt what we'd been arguing about the specificity and it's a it's a real word and that's the thing is going to be remembered here because those who have a solid twenty seven seek the violated so badly now here is the whole case let me make an illustration of what this gentleman has set atlanta based pacific law specifically gov walked he started out by saying on a number of occasions the night he's seventy one and nineteen seventy two john caulfield a member of john beings that obtain some irs confidential information and any car and an overland with that kind
of indefinite thing holdup of portland let's go down in an accident and the spring of nineteen seventy two the spring takes him three months what it is right he doesn't get it because he doesn't know that's why they don't want to get specific and that when john ehrlichman received some information on someone else the next thing he told you during the summer of nineteen seventy two a span of three more months the thirty eight members here have tried more criminal cases than there were remember american one can tell you that this can hold up in any court in the land each of these periods as three months when three months and even your right on through the whole bit it's just all in moderation of generalities that's why they don't want to get specific data one of the listener right way never did now you're my
friend in california must await olympic moment that i i don't wanna put in focus with my friend from illinois just about this region's act can be in going to the irs with some five hundred names of political opponents of the president that is absolutely indefensible gentleman and no one at the table republican or democrat friend or foe of richard nixon and those for one minute that previously the president didn't know that you didn't know when the irs and there is a word of testimony that he did no ministry being white and it's important as well to know what the irs home after the person the whole mystery being was the appointee of the president executing the president's instruction and
there's no dispute as to what mr dean was tall and in so many words if you are in the rationing <unk> now that the president is not in the assault case of irs abuse turns on the conversation of september fifteen and on that really affects of that you have to decide whether or not at that time the president approved of this or whether it was simply a discussion in the context of the time three months before the election and three months that mr chairman continuing the situation i think it's worth remembering that commissioner walters said on the occasion of being painfully and beans that he had not been asked by the president have this done and he did not know whether the president has any of this activity
the undertaker and mr bean state here in this committee and answer the mystery of that i don't know many artists that were accompli and the joint committee on internal revenue taxation found that in fact none of these people are on a still that's a record on the situation is that what actually took place as against political conversation on the fifteenth then september and there is no evidence in the record anywhere that the president ever make any request accepting here's a statement i cant mullen often says that halderman told him that the president asked for a report on governor was his rather which wouldn't stand up in any court in the land and there's no evidence of that in fact is the truth and that's been denied by two or three other people there during the course of the
festival and as mr rosenblatt says there aren't good people and there's there were secretary shows their separate characters commissioner for hours commissioner waters oh turned eighteen veterans down there's no evidence of a presidential effort and the thing that there is evidence that secretary johnson commissioner wars and commissioner thrower or presidential appointments are richer and next we'll back with your ideal really i want to reemphasize underscore in capital letters with and seventies and i'm from california for wiggins and no one at this table condones and here it's such requests that mr john being put forth and certainly if the present
united states have put forth that request i would think that would be an impeachable offense of a question as didier dilly not authorized john dean martin and pointed out what you want to master was the city civic ways david it was not there at the president's request i think it's important to know when a small matter was submitted to a joint committee on taxation here in the congress which is controlled by the opposition party that they made this report this class investigation paid particular attention to the cases of those individuals mentioned in the press as victims of politically motivated audience a giant kennedy staffer has ever called me and discussing these cases recently because of a problem this would present and violating the individual's rights of confidentiality and this is the
place i want to emphasize how iran none of these cases as the stamp found any evidence that that fact there was unfairly treated by the internal revenue service because of political views or political activity as composers further support about a house judiciary committees that carry all this committee material commissioner walter stated in his affidavit of may six nineteen seventy four with respect to illustrate him by mr dean at no time and i prayed any names our names from the most anyone but i regret any irs employee are operational that they can act with respect to the level of the gentleman has consumed two minutes and the road the new jersey or six minutes remained gemini janet mile mr mckenzie
violent latest german german this article is the article on abuse of power juliet really symbolizes what the chapters of the constitution really meant they are they were worried when they just came out of a revolution whether or not we in fact would find a president that would abuse that power and he found the gentleman from virginia mr randall sad that the really advocated the impeachment process specifically because he was worried about that abuse of power abuse of a presidential power because if the president would abuse their power it could very well lead to quote insurrection by the people and really what this particular provision it's the committee provision which is saying that the guard against this abuse we have to take a lot we had to see which what the founding fathers didn't
have at that time the internal revenue service whether or not that interview and i think why the gentleman from illinois mr railsback and also the gentlemen from iowa mr mayne are so concerned about this matter and why some of my colleagues in all due respect our defensive is because i think there's a realization that one of the greatest abuses that we have is the abuse of the irs because i think there's a realization that poisons the system if you abused the irs really what you're doing you're poisoning yourself and your grades then it becomes probably one of the most hideous from all the charges and why because we all pay taxes we know that the irs has personal information we know that it's based on voluntary action on the part of all of this we know that it's based on honesty in our country and visibility dr jackson and we have really what we have a felt compassion when we all
while attacks we know that and we understand and i think why the apprehensions that then because there's a realization that richard nixon's presidency has really leveled a serious blow in the area of the abuse of irs why you had talk about the enemy and the enemy lives and i'd like to say that there's another area what happens about taking care of your friends and i have submitted before that one of the president's best friends of the president himself and we'll have an article on that subsequent to the one they were considering and i know what we see about the friends and why is the friend mater as significant as the enemy because if you and pete du du administration of internal revenue act with a violation of family of blood and you say that in fact the irs is conducting an audit of that particular individual and then you get a
directive from the white house saying look which we have class we have direct testimony from that says that we have to take care of our friends and turn the irs off of our friends was that me it means another kind of cover up that means another kind of protection and that's exactly what happened and let me tell my friends though work in a constitutional issue which i agree and they're hoping for criminal violations that if you can and you are part of helping your friends and stepping into an audit that is done by the irs that is an interference with the do an illustration of the internal revenue act and i always cited as an example which is not only a significant violation of our constitution and abuse of office but it's also a clear violation of affection for me to that world without that in fact if you interfere with the dew administration of the internal revenue service you're subject to a felony and to be
and two being put in prison and i would bring it to the attention of the members of this committee i'd also say that they will respect the joint committee on internal revenue taxation we took a look at this issue what are they doing that investigation is going on and they in fact ambassador riyad its of those friends those ones that had direct contact and even the closest associates and friends of the white house and we have testimony direct and in fact the white house was involved now let's point to the one item that's very interesting to me that the whole focus on september fifteenth in the testimony by the gentleman from california who i respect mr wiggins no direct testimony we have mr dean just talking about it talking about it supposedly in the abstract let me say that's right it's not in the abstract it's right on target but three for the march thirteen nineteen seventy three and what we see we see direct
involvement direct discussions age that they are talking about issues where the president say directly do we need any irs that and the gentleman from texas says six minutes remaining on the edge of the new jersey and sit in jail for new jersey recognize them and mississippi was a lot more free men and women with your own this is certainly an area of that youth to inflame emotions of the american people because they are many out there that anwar personally the bill a pair of arrest are as an adult they'll that they're necessarily on anybody's list but i think that there are some key issues and points that we must press and keep in mind there is no evidence of any such ms justina final analysis on a part of
the joint committee on internal revenue taxation report should be noted in this conclusion a more sites of section from that report and then also almost all of examples of alleged attempts to misuse our arrest come from the person that use the most influence supposedly within iras to get the votes john dean is a person that they did these points with john waters and others now a lot of the nativist missing seventeen minutes of take all affected we all have a seventeen minutes and as oregon and some contradictions about what's included in those seventeen minutes i don't think we can based this decision and i don't something that we don't know yet how maybe we will later on and we should consider it's been claimed that several individuals in the white house attempt to misuse our us for partisan political purposes is clear that subtle ways misuse the only sixteen if it were supported by the power and the party of the president in our analysis looking at all the evidence available it's clear the president not take that action one point i would emphasize that the dentist made while ago
these people that have been trained so how and with issues and walter's intro these people were appointed by the president this is the speech we're likely political views on a bit of seconds and a report from the internal revenue committee iran none of these cases as a southpaw to step down any evidence that the taxpayer was unfairly treated by the internal revenue service a service because of political views or activities this family's that in three cases there are substantial questions about decisions made by government agencies about wins the white house but the staff does not have evidence that there was any pressure and bought the staff also believes the number of enemies you're not on a day when his family as they should have been all were audited too leniently and then and mr deans response before and after questioning by mr rove but he says so i don't know what the person got it back in it or not
or i don't know the odds that were accomplished in conclusion i think the record clearly show that while some personal the white house named lee hughes improper and intentions against irs the fact is the final analysis no iris of these results jonathan winters is the reserve and yielding maximum usefulness a gentleman as a second half minutes and then on the challenge it is section eight during thirty seconds to myself six minutes and you do the denim and now baumann will pull it in a little oil frank thanks for larceny just say let's talk let's tone delude ourselves here there was a
conversation the president was involved the president knew exactly where john dean had done on september eleventh not only did he not turn it off and my opinion according to jenkins director asked what he'd tell them to go back again now some people argue that because nothing was done but there's no serious offense why wasn't why wasn't there anything done was it because the president of the united states decided to turn it off and registered as our rage it's because these investigations that not occur because there happened to be two rather dedicated public servants one eleven am a george shelves and then there are other good irs commissioner that would have anything to do with it and i think the commission wilder's get very good advice to mr dean when he presented this list he testified that he told me that compliance with such a request and i quote would be disastrous for the irs and for the administration and would make the watergate affair look like a sunday school picnic
or you know my friend's a fundamental principle of our government is of equal justice on the wall is a guarantee every citizen but in another way we are a government of laws and not of man this commitment to equip just has written that in a few places like in our constitution and our laws and in some court decisions love my guess is imported most of them from that list of possible that must be a song in our society for instance the assumption that the sense of emergency room government with peculiar power a week one of our citizens like the police power and the power to tax or not be abused or misused for political purposes this is a fundamental source of the people's confidence in their government we the people's confidence in our government that the president and his mantra trifled with this or sing them a sufficiently grave to qualify as a component of an
article of impeachment can you imagine can you imagine under any circumstances ever a president of the united states later when it do you need any r s earle let happen on march thirty nineteen seventy three in the white house can you imagine the president's lawyer his castle is paul subordinate slain with impunity and a prior approval of the president we have a couple of sources aware that i can go to a lot of power with john walters who without irs commissioner we can get right in and get what we need that also happened in the white house because on specific which might be just the type of ice where a two pronged attack on a well known political figure who is now the governor must fully integrate and courageous american which i believe is shared equally unbelievably be shared equally by those who agree or disagree with him in the spring of nineteen seventy eight george wallace was not going to alabama but they get an
immediate contests with them gone the real lid sits at dawn alarming was on our death in nineteen sixty eight the decision was made and i'm i don't know but i think you can be certain it was a nice counsels of the white house that this excessive governor wallace in a democratic primary in the state of alabama was somehow incompatible with the entrance of the nixon administration the word and i did well it's a specific instance of mr higby primary assistant to mr haldeman chief of staff to the president four hundred thousand dollars and funds left over from the nineteen sixty eight presidential campaign was funneling alabaman a devious an undercover man or an unsuccessful effort to defeat government wants they're the right elements to this i'm at the combat before this committee in this room then in early nineteen seventy eight yamaha women directed a special counsel to the president took a new report from the irs about its investigation of george wallace and his brother
parliament gave assurances that the report was for the president report from irs commissioner for was requested all of those places receive and given to home material contained in the report was thereafter transmitted to jack anderson the syndicated columnist white house portions of the material potentially dangerous politically to governor wallace were published nationally own label thirtieth nineteen seventy several weeks before the primary election about at least for one actions were a gross abuse of the irs is an agency of government and answered only a violation of federal law now i ask you my friends who was it that my kind of political enemies lives in an effort to get back where it was the administration of richard nixon who was at that really is potentially damaging jackson for much about the governor of our about the tapes of richard nixon and on another subject of most of us
who was at the frustrated that ultimately with just as they awaited daniel ellsberg and anthony russo and which are dropped would come to them about hands of a jury ordered some left wing radical liberal plot najaf for and that was the administration of richard nixon either you describe yourself and wherever you might be the republicans aren't here because of this program with a new possibly politically and get by with the abuse is described in this article and so can succeed in chief executives including those with whom you do not agree with the same training and the standards of our highest office a standard of conduct that is certainly acceptable to me i have a job well i think now we have a whole case and if we could rest on this one that lawyer would have for the record verdict because these artifacts and now you know why they will be specific
all i ever generally groups of at least one include about three months all i have is in nineteen seventy a home and gold mine of all a habit over here sometimes seventy one seventy two caulfield it's ultimately though all i have in the spring of seventy two ehrlichman told someone else something the only thing left is that magic they september the three nineteen seventy two why don't you say that's all you act why don't you let the scout rest on that they were you know i can hold up that's why you don't know what it is why it will hold up all you have a conversation with anybody that listens that it didn't know why and out with a ride that as the rail now headed for southern know and this is a majestic place to say the least modern times as the werewolf of the man we're that there is overall and what was the real estate you know what he said nothing happened that not one of the five hundred and ninety one
pinkwater that not one but you're going to look past that you can't impeach the president of the united states for a plot not a d d that's what he sang when they're that happened before and what title laws is gonna make for every man that sits in the white house from now on this is what i'm concerned about this can be a stage show from now on for any majority party to manipulate against any men and becomes president of the united states that is not a member of his party and such actions that can not be in the best of years of the government and the country we all love so well this is the thought we have to prove the two hundred and twenty million people that shows beyond more reasonable about you cannot prove this out you're not a people not and why don't you pass this motion to strike and the gentleman has expired three seconds
remaining yield fifteen the fed affect general motor's like to say that that i think most people listening to us no they really want to to faithfully execute the laws of our country does involve placing your lieutenants and two does involve an obligation to stop them when you see the chorus which the following are not for those who are looking for the smoking as though i just i'm afraid to find it because the rumors to force now jonathan much impressed by the debate in the comments from our colleagues on the committee i think they will benefit from a broader motion to strike on that i mean the rules of the
house the gentleman right what a parliamentary procedure doesn't mean even a misconception that a victory today joes buying the genocide through into nineteen of the rules of the house the gentleman was operated has operated under the house as a committee of all is entitled to withdraw the motion as a substitute amendment without even asking for unanimous consent of the gentleman is perfectly valid the year there've been off other amendments before the gas the year gentlemen are now recognize those who so where's the speed gun the five minute rule to the substitute amendment that
was offered by the gentleman from missouri mr i guess b mr chairman i love that nobody wants to take the time we're the very i would move the previous question the yeah joe the role i adopted that they'll remember as a writer the five minutes unless they're the gentleman from there the chairman of
philip the president mentioned all of the lake or pearson or flip through doesn't even different for me he's been known to the people who prismatic why are very reluctant but it's not appropriate i think the critical of those seized and we do well with drilling opposed to passing the buck almost as opposed to passing bikers there was a time in the oval office the buck stops here and now we head of the criticism of other presidents who are deceased presidents and we've had discussion of the fifth and then the activity all about the fifth amendment
and due process i would hope that when the final records that we would fight any attempt to make attacks of that kind and i would certainly say that i would resist any might be laden with regard to president eisenhower we were in the army together and i would only thing his former colleague but phase of arkansas and the thorns stayed he recounted the story of from bosnia was our land cards and one of one over the other and says come on boys by the guards there i know what i've dealt with them i feel that my existing london calling from
indiana friends or they're related nintendo any criticism of president truman who happens to be a gentleman i admire myself if we didn't check and drew pearson i would come close to thinking that that might almost be just i think of retirement and i know the thing without burning you would be nothing up with with we talked about people when agents and servants and employees alike tunis this brief time i thought about it but if your testimony i thought he was one of our better with eleven and nine now you said that some of his testimony after qualifying at least for him the first day an east room after he gets sworn in he's right there next to the oval office and ego through some business column in innovation vinci for the white house level the charge of everything of the domestic international trade congressional national security unit in charge of everything it had a virtual
caliphate of speech writing appointment levels really allowed outside groups' political matters communicated with the media i could go on this is that i knew best moments that it becomes matter came up for the department let it be with bob on with all people wearing it was the fall and we're almost to the president working along with it the book and not the major role video of baltimore gordon strong response whatsoever and he says he was responsible for keeping you tuned to the political happenings around the country closely is on the committee to reelect and continuing in a testimony on pager twenty nine the president first of all is well organized always a highly disciplined as an individual holds that reflected that was that was a very very well organized firmly ronstadt mr roarke could you give the committee an indication the president's work habits and expect attention to detail as you know it with us from observations and eighteen thousand pounds of men ran over this period of time
and it is very shrewd without hundreds and hundreds of memoranda working directly with the president all i know him to be at they'll land and he goes on says the president often source of concern the property for a closer look at the ravens state gets whether they should be on that side of the room are displayed a weekly basis are no clear deal it raises social functions were always viewed him scenario actually came to me from his nixon it was always a nation that they were infants he debated whether we should have you think they were around fifteen he was deeply involved the entertainment business alicia get for anna group small band big band black man white band jazz band whatever he was arrested and we'll see how they referred to the waiters and usually put out the statement was not taken cared less than an hour he debated receding it should now be receding want my entertainment time of the gentleman has expired this theory that could devastate their
german i can guess that the chairman and my colleagues on the committee and i think perhaps this article you if proof were here would be more important in many respects in article one we dealt with earlier the family as i see it is that whereas on article one you had a difficult matter a balancing proof and deciding where to wait lay on whether jason then maybe beyond a reasonable type of about i decided it had not the end of it had that kind of a problem there here where you might have this serious case if he had the evidence you just don't really have a lot of and i can't believe that we're going to impeach the
president of the united states without the facts now it's a difficult job to go over the same ground but let's just look quickly at work were talking about first is the irs i was just talking about that a moment ago japanese fans in the old days they called dangerous thinking and it may be on the basis of the conversation september fifteenth you can convict somebody fb fb
1974 Nixon Impeachment Hearings
Reel 1 of 6
Producing Organization
National Public Affairs Center for Television
Contributing Organization
Library of Congress (Washington, District of Columbia)
If you have more information about this item than what is given here, or if you have concerns about this record, we want to know! Contact us, indicating the AAPB ID (cpb-aacip/512-3r0pr7nf2d).
Episode Description
Live and videotaped debate of the House Committee on the Judiciary, chaired by Peter Rodino, Jr., on the articles of impeachment against President Richard Nixon. This is day 4 of the Nixon impeachment hearings.
Broadcast Date
Asset type
Event Coverage
Politics and Government
Nixon, Richard M.; Watergate Affair, 1972-1974
Media type
Moving Image
Embed Code
Copy and paste this HTML to include AAPB content on your blog or webpage.
Producing Organization: National Public Affairs Center for Television
Producing Organization: WETA-TV
Reporter: Lehrer, James
Reporter: Duke, Paul
Speaker: Rodino, Peter W.
AAPB Contributor Holdings
Library of Congress
Identifier: 2403168-1-3 (MAVIS Item ID)
Format: 2 inch videotape
Generation: Preservation
Color: Color
If you have a copy of this asset and would like us to add it to our catalog, please contact us.
Chicago: “1974 Nixon Impeachment Hearings; 1974-07-29; Reel 1 of 6,” 1974-07-29, Library of Congress, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed May 27, 2024,
MLA: “1974 Nixon Impeachment Hearings; 1974-07-29; Reel 1 of 6.” 1974-07-29. Library of Congress, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. May 27, 2024. <>.
APA: 1974 Nixon Impeachment Hearings; 1974-07-29; Reel 1 of 6. Boston, MA: Library of Congress, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from