The Exchange; Interview with Bill Richardson

From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm John Greenberg and this is the exchange. There is a longstanding belief in politics that senators don't get elected as president. New Mexico's Democratic governor Bill Richardson certainly hopes that old saw is in the forefront of voters minds as he looks at the one former and two current senators who lead him in fundraising and in the early polls Richardson hopes that his blend of experience and his positions on the issues will help him break into the top tier on Iraq. He supports a more aggressive withdrawal. He says there should be no residual American troops in that country. Richardson argues that their presence makes it easier for al Qaeda forces to remain as a first step. He says Congress should authorize the war and fund only the redeployment of U.S. forces on immigration. Richardson says his experience as the governor of a border state gives him a unique background to tackle the problem of an estimated 12 million people here

illegally. He opposes the idea of a fence along the border although he does say that Border Patrol should be double. He favors a comprehensive plan that includes a pathway to legalization and a crackdown on employers who hire undocumented workers. Richardson draws on his stint as energy secretary under President Bill Clinton to promote a plan that would cut America's demand for oil by 50 percent by 2020. He wants to see more electric cars on the road and greater fuel efficiency for all vehicles. Today on the exchange New Mexico's Democratic governor and candidate for president Bill Richardson. Today we're focusing on Iraq immigration and energy and we want to hear from you. Our number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Or if you like 1 800 892 and HPR. Governor Richardson Welcome to the exchange. Nice to be with you John. Thanks for having me. First to Iraq yesterday. Major General Rick Lynch he's a commander of troops on Baghdad southern approach has said that an early American withdrawal would clear the way for

the enemy to come back to areas now being cleared of insurgents. And he said the so-called troop surge ordered by President Bush should continue into the spring of 2008 you say the U.S. should pull out all of its troops. What's your reaction when you hear this from commanders in the field. Well it's been these military experts with all due respect to the general that have gotten us into this mix with political leaders not having an exit strategy a plan for Iraq. I totally disagree. And what disturbs me the most John is today our troops have become targets. And what we need is a full withdrawal no residual forces. And only then can the true diplomatic work begin to get the Iraqis a reconciliation government which the government of Iraq has failed to bring forth a partition of the country not into three entities not into three states but three entities and an all-Muslim peacekeeping force. But I would

redeploy our forces into Afghanistan where there are needed. I do think al-Qaeda is a threat and into Kuwait where they are wanted. But I totally disagree it's been this misguided military and political strategy that has got us into this morass where 61 percent of the Iraqi people don't want us out of Iraq. The Sunni and Shia and close to 60 percent to say it's OK in Iraq to shoot at an American soldier. This is an indefensible policy. Can you explain the logic by which taking out all of our troops as quickly as possible would lead to greater reconciliation would somehow undermine al-Qaeda. Can you spell out why you think that would be the case. Yes. You use the leverage of the withdrawal to say to the three groups in Iraq the Sunni the Shia and the Kurds. Now I know these people I spent a lot of time there as U.N. ambassador I worked on the

Iraq issue then I know the region what we need us to say to them. The withdrawal of American forces has got to mean a reconciliation. You're going to have a partition you're going to have a division of oil revenues. You're got to have an Iraqi central government and then what I would also say John to Iran and Syria who have a lot of interests in that area who are messing around with terrorist activities that nobody in Iraq wants Iraq to split up to be a civil war to have thousands of refugees streaming into Iran into Saudi Arabia. And so you get the players in the region to find a way to get regional stability with an all-Muslim peacekeeping force with Turkey with Jordan with Egypt financed by Saudi Arabia overseen by the United Nations. We have gone it alone in Iraq and this policy is just not working. It is getting worse and the only answer the president has is a surge more troops. He himself the

president admits that the benchmarks have not been met that the Maliki government who by the way is saying you guys can leave if you want. I mean is this person there that's our closest ally disdains our presence. And so when the president admits that the reconciliation efforts of the Maliki government are not working and bringing people together that they're training of their own forces is slow and it's not happening what you do is you you redirect your policy you don't give up you find a way to get our troops out of the region out of the area into the region where they can really be deployed. I would use special forces there if necessary. I would use our forces in Kuwait to deal with terrorist threats in the region. I'm not pulling for a total withdrawal from the region in fact I would put more troops in Afghanistan with al Qaeda where they are needed where we are weak. Many people have said that what would be helpful would be would be to

have an all Muslim force. I think that some of the skeptics turn around and say Is it any more reasonable to expect to have an all Muslim force than it is to expect the Iraqi troops to take over the security for their own country. It's been very difficult to have get the Iraqi troops into that position. What makes you think it would be any more likely that there would be able you'd be able to assemble an all Muslim force. Well you make a very good point John because let me tell you that the Iraqis have 330000 security forces 330000. Many of them have been trained. Others have not. It's been too slow. You're right. They can participate in securing their own country. What I'm talking about is to enforce a peacekeeping role of a possible partition and to have international troops there to secure peace. It would be an all-Muslim force. I'd get the Turks in there. I'd get the Egyptians there. I'd get other countries that

have. This is a Muslim area. I guess my question is many people would like things to be so. There are many people in this Republican administration who would like the Iraqi troops to stand up as they say but it hasn't happened. And now you're saying well I would like these Muslim forces to come in what makes you think they would actually do that. Under what circumstances does that become a credible proposal one the departure of American forces would be an incentive for the peace to start. Secondly none of these countries John want refugees streaming across their border and that's what would happen if there is a breakup of Iraq. So that's an incentive for regional stability and the Muslim peacekeeping force that would keep the peace. Now you know you're talking about all these what ifs. Look what's happening now. The policy is a disaster you've got a civil war you've got sectarian conflict. You've got American troops

being killed. You've got our standing in the world in the region eroding you've got the Israeli-Palestinian situation in a terrible terrible fix. Look you know I am ready to start talking and using diplomacy and building international coalitions to fix this problem. All of these skeptics are the ones that got us in the war. They're negative. I'm positive about this country. I'm positive about American leadership. I know diplomacy. I've done it all my life. I've talked to the Syrians I've talked to people that we disagree with the North Koreans. We can find a way to get out with honor and give Iraq a chance for some stability and then preserve our interests and focus on protecting the American people from al Qaeda and from other real threats that exist. Well today on the exchange we are talking to New Mexico governor and Democratic presidential candidate Bill Richardson. We're talking about Iraq. We'll be talking about immigration and his energy proposals give us a call at 1

800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 That's 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Let's go right now to Fran in Manchester Good morning Fran. Good morning and good morning Governor. Good morning Fred. How bad a little hardball. Go ahead. You cite your diplomatic successes over the years and it looks like North Korea Syria and Sudan are still a threat to the United States and it seems that there's little that has come out of your efforts. Why should we think that you'll have more success as a president. Well let me just tell you friend I think with North Korea we've had some success when I was there three months ago we got the remains of six of our soldiers from the Korean War and then just two days ago the North Koreans have announced and I did this with the administration they announced that they're going to invite inspectors to shut

down their nuclear reactor. My point there Fran is that we should talk to the North Koreans directly and we did. And I've been given the administration credit after criticizing them for outsourcing our foreign policy with North Korea with Sudan. I was there and I was a governor. I got a cease fire a very fragile one and we improve the humanitarian situation there but it's still a genocide it's a tragedy. Look you know I'm a governor. I'm running for president. I don't have the power the State Department but at least I've succeeded. I got two hostages out of Saddam Hussein. I got an American pilot from the North Koreans. I fried a journalist in Sudan six months ago. So I know how to negotiate. I'm the only candidate this negotiated with foreign countries and my view is that you know when you have enemies. I follow the precepts of Yitzhak Rabin who basically said you don't make peace with your friends you make peace with your enemies. Now al Qaeda terrorists you can't

negotiate with them. But I wouldn't negotiate with Syria directly. I wouldn't negotiate with North Korea directly as we have been. I would talk to Iran. I mean I don't want Israel to be susceptible to Iran's nuclear weapons. Iran has an irrational leader but I would talk to others in the Iranian government the clerics the students moderate forces that are there. I just don't believe burying our head in the sand is something that makes sense in our foreign policy. All right Fran thanks very much. We're taking your calls on the exchange at 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 for New Mexico governor and Democratic presidential candidate Bill Richardson. Let's go now to John in Concord. Good morning John. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning John. My question is just to follow up on when you were talking about Iraq how can we how can we possibly leave Iraq before obtaining a commitment from Turkey not to invade Kurdistan. And this is really

the idea of bringing Turkish troops into Iraq especially northern Iraq where the Kurds are would be like lighting a match in a room full of explosives. John you know as well as I do since you know the region we have leverage over Turkey. Turkey is our friend. Turkey wants to get into the European Union. The U.S. is supporting it. We got turkey into NATO. There's hostility towards Turkey in Europe. We say to our friends that Turks look you know you have to be part of this overall peaceful framework. It's not going to be easy but you know automatically saying that Turkey is going to go bananas without even trying is not a good foreign policy. So you know when you have leverage over your friends you use it with Mexico for instance on immigration. I would say to Mexico Hey you guys are our friends but you're allowing your people to come into the U.S. give them there give them jobs give them hope. Obey the laws. That's talking frankly with friends and I believe that with

diplomacy we can convince the Turks to not proceed and take those steps that you mention. John thank you very much for that call. Governor you've talked about more generally restoring respect and appreciation for our allies. What would that mean in practice. That means basically saying to NATO European allies Hey guys we're part of the European system again. That means going to the United Nations and saying we're going to respect the U.N.. You guys have to clean up your accounting practices. But we're going to be part of the international community. It means rejoining the Kyoto Treaty and doing something about greenhouse gas emissions. It means getting rid of Guantanamo where we illegally detain people it means saying we're not going to use torture as our foreign policy. It means also restoring habeas corpus and it means saying John that you know we're going to care about what happens in Darfur and genocide in Africa Asia and Latin America and that we're going to try to do something about joining the world in

reducing international poverty and AIDS and sexual slavery and refugees and you know standing up for our ideals. Being a country that respects nations that have elections and human rights and trade unionism that's what it means. All right. Well I do wonder what do you see as the role of the International Criminal Court. President Clinton was in favor of us joining the International Criminal Court. Where do you stand on that. I'm for it. And I believe that this does not disparage or disadvantage our troops. They are under U.S. command. I would rejoin it I would rejoin the Kyoto treaty. I would say we respect the Geneva Convention and here John I mentioned this. We have used torture as a policy waterboarding. You know you stick somebody who's head in the in the water and say that you're trying to get information from. That is not we should not be like these terrorists. And to say that we're going to eavesdrop on our citizens without a court order.

Look I'm for fighting terrorists but at the expense of our own liberties I'm not for that. How has your experience growing up between Mexican and American society shaped your approach to immigration. Well you know I try to say John that I'm the governor of New Mexico I'm also candidate for president. I don't give particular what's the word sympathies to those that say well you know he's Hispanic. I was in Iowa the other day and somebody said well you're Hispanic origin or you got to open the border. I mean how direct. And I said no. In fact two years ago I declared a border emergency. Angered a lot of Hispanic groups because the flow into New Mexico was hurting my citizens was hurting. Drugs were coming in. You've got to be sensible in the approach and I believe you need to contain those coming in. And that's by having doubling our Border Patrol more technology at the border. We have to contain that. We have to have

employer sanctions those that knowingly hire illegal workers. We've got to have a frank talk with Mexico and say hey you guys need to start helping your own people at the very least stop giving him maps in the easiest place to cross. And then lastly John you've got to have a legalization plan for the 12 million not amnesty not automatic citizenship. Let them earn their stay here. They speak English obey the laws embrace values pay fines get in back of those that are trying to get here legally what's the alternative deportation. Who's going to find them. Kick them all out. How are you going to do that. What happens to small business. I'm just trying to be practical here with a very difficult problem. We will talk more about the details of your immigration proposals but I think that if you do stand unique among all the presidential contenders it is in your background. I mean you grew up in one sense among the sort of the upper class Mexican society. You also attended a very upper class prep school here in

New England. How has that shaped you. Well you're part of your legacy. You know my my mother would only speak to me in Spanish. My father he never spoke to me. No I'm kidding. He was very tough on me but he would speak to me in English and I grew up in a bilingual background we were comfortable. My father was a New Englander. He was from the Boston area and so he wanted me to go to. He is like he was a lot older and my mom and me and so he said this is what I want you to do. You got to go to Tufts and it's shaped me. I I've had kind of a bicultural upbringing which I believe has made me sensitive to diplomacy to foreign policy to negotiation. You know we moved out west very early Barbara and my wife and we were Westerners now. I was born in this country because my father had a complex. He just wanted his son to be born American because he he was born in Nicaragua.

He was although he was a U.S. citizen and was in the military he had this fixation. So I've had this very bicultural diverse life which is outlined in my book Between Worlds Puttnam 28 95. Just kidding I'm plugging my book and you're allowed to do that. Well we are taking your calls on the exchange for New Mexico governor and Democratic presidential candidate Bill Richardson. Right now let's go to Edward in Whitefield. Good morning Edward. Morning Good morning Governor. Nice to have you here in New Hampshire. Thank you. I'd like to widen the article a little bit on the foreign policy issue you've been discussing mainly Iraq where you would use U.S. forces out of Afghanistan where you would redeploy them. And I want to ask you to give us a wider sense of how President you would use U.S. prestige and leadership and military assets in the world and in

addressing future crises. Well what your criteria for intervention for example. Well it would be very clear I would reject the present policy of preemption and the present policy I believe which is military option first I would exhaust diplomacy. I would use diplomacy. I would build international support for my goals by getting United Nations support for my actions. Not every time but obviously I would be part of an international system that recognizes that we're a nation of laws and that international law Geneva Convention is important. But I would not hesitate if American security interests were threatened. An American city by a terrorist with a dirty bomb affected. I would respond militarily. That's what every American president has to do and I happen to think that our Army and Marines we need to upgrade those I'd never send troops out without national guard without equipment. But I

would be in the school of international engagement. I believe that U.S. leadership should be there on issues like international poverty AIDS refugees genocide. I would expand the role of America not to just care about oil and energy in the Middle East. Our interests lie in being an international moral leader too. In the third world and that means standing up against genocide standing for efforts to curb diseases around the world and have a foreign assistance policy where we emphasize nutrition education instead of these big infrastructure projects that we're known for today in supporting and corrupt governments and dictators Edward thank you very much for that call. Governor we're going to be going into a break shortly so I'll just ask you to keep this answer brief if you can. You said that you support US joining the

International Criminal Court what would you do if someone challenged the illegality of the American offensive in Iraq saying that one sovereign state attacked another sovereign state without having been previously attacked. Well I would stand by our military principles. Look you know you can't just join the International Criminal Court and say OK now you can sue us for past misdeeds you start prospectively and say these are the standards you know we have not negotiated our entrance into the court. We should but you know you say these are these are future entities I would not make ourselves suitable for everything we've done in the past would never you think. Do you think then that perhaps the U.S. does have a legal liability under international law for its military operation in Iraq. Is that what you're saying. No that's what I'm saying. I'm saying the opposite I'm saying that we start prospectively. In other words the U.S. rejoins the International Criminal Court and its prospective

actions. Look if there is you know if there is an atrocity some of our America committed of course you're susceptible but just having intervened No I mean we we took that stand on the basis of our national security. I believe it was the wrong stand but you can't you can't condemn a country for taking military action. All right well we are talking this morning with New Mexico governor and Democratic presidential candidate Bill Richardson. We'll be taking more of your calls right after this break. Support for NAHB comes from you our members and from Brewster Academy Wolfeboro an international innovator in education recognized for success and advanced learning and technology online at Brewster Academy. And from Granite State telephone with more than a century of telecommunications experience providing local long distance and high speed Internet services across southern New Hampshire.

There's more still ahead with New Mexico governor and Democratic presidential candidate Bill Richardson on the exchange. And coming up at 10:00 on the Diane Rehm Show. New intelligence reports warn that al Qaeda has rebuilt itself. We'll find out what that means for U.S. security. That's ahead at 10:00 on New Hampshire Public Radio. This is NPR celebrating 25 years of great radio in the Granite State. This is the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio. I'm John Greenberg filling in for Laura Conaway and our guest this morning is New Mexico governor and Democratic presidential candidate Bill Richardson we've been taking your calls. We'd like to continue taking your calls our phone number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 That's 1 800 8 9 2 and h p r. Well Governor we have talked a lot about immigration.

Let's move over to energy policy. You want to cut the America the demand in America for oil by 50 percent by the year 2020. You want to boost electric production by 50 percent by the year 2040. How does all of this happen by an Apollo program John where a president leads like JFK said we're going to reduce we're going to go to the moon in 10 years. I would say by 2020 this is what we need to do reduce oil consumption by 50 percent. How do you do that by massive public and private investment shifting to renewable technology 50 miles per gallon vehicles 100 mile per gallon plug in hybrids fuel efficiency standards massive investments in renewable technologies like solar wind biomass fuel cells distributed generation biodiesel biofuel ethanol finding ways to give incentives for green buildings and solar roofs in school and I would also say John you know every American has to

participate. All of us have to do something about energy efficiency and that means in our appliances are our daily lives mass transit. This is not a mandate but I would say when it comes to air conditioning and lighting and washing machines let's be a little more energy conscious. If we all do this if we all come together this will improve the environment and also make us more secure. I mean when you have the morons of the world that Venezuela's countries that hate us controlling our oil supply and sixty five percent of our oil is imported we are vulnerable. You think these high gas prices right now are high. Wait till some of these countries squeezes. So this is why it's incumbent on us making this dramatic Apollo shift right now. Well we got a question via email from Megan in Manchester. She wants to know what's the role of nuclear energy in the United States future the role of nuclear energy is one that they have to compete equally. Today the energy bill in the Congress gives massive favoritism

to oil to call in to nuclear to dirty coal. And they don't need that. I would take those subsidies. They got two years ago and shifted to renewable technology. We have not resolved the nuclear power the nuclear waste issue. Nevada doesn't want it. They don't want to put it in nuclear sites in regional sites. We need to resolve that. There's still some safety issues with nuclear. But on the plus side John they don't make greenhouse gas emissions so they have to be part of the mix. But they should not be favored as they are now. And I think the future is in renewable in solar wind and biomass and geothermal and distributed generation and fuel cells. I don't believe the future's nuclear. Well if there is no favored treatment for nuclear power do you foresee the use of nuclear generation increasing in this country as part of your plan. My emphasis would be on renewable on solar wind and meio mass as I said this last energy bill two years ago gave 13 billion in

subsidies and tax credits to oil to nuclear and to dirty coal. I would take those away and spread them around equally among everybody. I'm not saying no nuclear power ever. But I am just saying why should they have the upper hand just because they got bigger lobbyists in Washington and they're friends of the president and the oil is friend of the president. So. So I would not give them that advantage that they won. All right well let's go now to Mike in Manchester. Good morning Mike. Good morning. What's on your mind. Well Mr. Richardson you tout as part of your resume your experience as energy secretary under President Clinton and I seem to recall that you had some problems with losing sensitive information at that time and I would just like you to answer how you can be trusted with sensitive military and nuclear information as president given the track record in the past. Well we have had the energy department the labs at Los Alamos have had

these losses of classified information. You're right. When I was there we had those problems but I believe we never lost anything when I was there. There was an incident with an individual at the labs who pleaded guilty but at the time probably got too heavy a sentence. Look this has been a problem in the past but I plugged a lot of those security leaks we had a number of cyber security measures that I initiated. We had some of the scientists take polygraphs we increase physical security at the labs. I responded. But this has been a persistent problem since it doesn't make it better. But you know I have managed 100 and 2000 people and I believe overall my role as energy secretary has been applauded in many areas helping workers reducing gas prices nuclear material arrangements with Russia so that we don't have loose nukes ways that we modernize the

grid. But yeah you know I had I've been in public service 25 years. I made mistakes I had probably some bad votes and bad you know bad things I did. I'm not perfect. I'm not running for perfection. I'm running for president. All right Mike thanks very much for your call. Let's go now to Sam in Portsmouth Good morning Sam. Good morning. How are you Governor. Fine Sam. I appreciate you talking about domestic solutions to global warming and you also mentioned reconvening Kyoto. But I would like to know how your global warming action plan can protect the U.S. economy abroad and what role will foreign policy play beyond Middle East oil. Well it play a very important role. I believe what you said is absolutely right it takes foreign policy leadership. You know we're the world's 20 25 percent of the world's pollution is produced by the US.

Yet we're only 5 percent of the world's population. So if we're going to convince major nations like China and India that don't participate in the Kyoto treaty because they say we don't then we have to show some leadership. So it means what I would do. In fact my first week as president is reconvene a summit of the European Union leadership of Germany China India developing countries and say we're going to have a new Kyoto treaty. It's going to be tougher. It's got to go to 90 percent reduction greenhouse gas emissions by 2040 and by 20 20 we should go to 30 percent because what we have is an international situation where the planet is the science is very clear that manmade pollution is causing these serious erosions of the Earth's atmosphere. And secondly that it's fossil fuels is the cause. So we have to reduce that consumption worldwide. All right. Sam thanks very much. I think part of the issue that people have and that

Sam is referring to with Kioto is that as it's written right now China and India have a little more wiggle room in terms of their carbon emissions. So you're talking about renegotiating Kyoto. Yes. So that those particular advantage under current language would not be there. That's right. I would renegotiate with what is called a cap and trade system. These are mandates John but tougher mandates that penalize power plants and countries if they don't reduce their levels. But they also give incentives. Cap and trade system sets mandates but there are also incentives. If China for instance does renewable investments energy investments in another country they get a credit to achieve their emissions reduction goal. All right Sam thank you very much for that question. Let's go now to Deb in Greenville. Good morning Deb.. Hi good morning. Good morning Governor. Well good morning New Hampshire. Nice to have you back in the state. Thank you.

I was watching Channel 9 the other night when you were on and I was struck by your comment about the role of art in developing the creative mind and particularly in critical areas such as math and science. It would seem that math and science are going to be a very critical role and essential for the energy crisis facing this world in the country. And I wondered if you could expand a little bit about how you feel it would help in those areas. Well by the way I loved my time in Greenville I went to the Fourth of July parade at midnight. The pots and pans so I love your little town on. This is my theory. We are frightfully behind in science and math. Twenty ninth in the world we got to get our kids. We've got to get a core of teachers in science and math academies. But my view is that if you bring into the schools the arts early preschool full day kindergarten K through 12 and push the arts with our students

dance drama drawing sculpture the whole range of the arts that will expand the mind of kids. Now a lot of schools have art in the schools programs. I pushed a big one in New Mexico. I would lead a national effort to partner with schools to get art in the schools. I just think it's an ability in a way to unlock the minds of our kids. And then the science and math will follow. Now I'm not an educational specialist but I've seen at work in New Mexico and if I've seen it work I believe nationally this is a great opportunity to open the creative minds of our kids and so I am an unabashed supporter of art in the schools and I would have a national federal effort to help our schools in their curriculum with art. All right well thank you very much for that question. Governor this question comes via email from Ann and Ann is interested in high speed rail in the United States both for

passengers and freight. Where do you stand on promoting high speed rail. I am so enthusiastic about it. I'm about to fall out of my chair and I'm trying to be funny. You didn't think that was terribly funny. Anyway I am so positive about that. Look I did this in New Mexico between Albuquerque and Santa Fe light rail. Only 2 million people. People love it. You know we have had policies in this country that just promote pork and highways. We should start thinking a president should lead and and with cities around the country Miami Las Vegas that are struggling with traffic congestion say from now on they're going to be partnerships and funding and bonding and we are going to look at light rail we're going to look at bullet trains we've got to use more land use policies open space so that you know everybody isn't crowded and you don't have massive traffic congestion and safety issues. So

I would be an enthusiastic supporter of light rail in fact I would shift a lot of those highway funds to light rail and the federal government. And the president can lead. All right. Although she did ask about high speed rail but we will move right along. And let's ask Ted in Hopkinton Ted what's on your mind this morning about a $3 tax on gasoline you're on the beat. A lot of natural gas because the price of oil fluctuates greatly. No big company is going to put a big money on the line for alternative energy sources you understand. All right so basically Ted your proposal is put a huge three dollar a gallon tax on gasoline oil and fuel oil and natural gas. All right them 30 cents a year for 10 years. All right so Ted that's your proposal. Governor what is your reaction to a decidedly large increase of the federal tax on fuel Well I think Ted is trying to fix the problem and I

respect that but I disagree with him. I don't believe the middle class can take any more jolts. Another tax on gasoline I believe. Here's where the government and business and of all of us cooperating together to reduce consumption 50 percent of petroleum products of fossil fuels would do the trick having more efficient gasoline natural gas gasoline batteries fuel cells ethanol bio diesel electric cars plug in hybrid cars. That is the solution. The solution is technology and investment and political leadership. You know I think this gentleman is very honest and that would be a fix. But you know to ask the middle class I'm going to tax you three bucks a year or whatever he wants to do. I'm not for that. I believe we can do that with American ingenuity you don't want to the things John that strikes me is we don't think big anymore. We've been given so many easy solutions by the government here you've got to

get a tax cut we're going to go into a war without authority from the Congress we're going to spend all this money. 8.8 trillion dollars. We got to start thinking as Americans together. Inspired by somebody that will say hey we're all in this together let's have citizen service let's everybody chip in. Well you're listening to the exchange and our guest today is New Mexico governor and Democratic presidential candidate Bill Richardson. And we continue to take your calls 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Let's go now to Chris in Surrey. Chris what's on your mind. Hi Dr. Richardson. Governor Ridge I want to know how you can balance how you would help Americans balance their pride in America versus humility as citizens of the world. Namely that we can necessarily impose our will on everyone. And how did he manage to do that and cut all the important things out there in the world.

Well I would simply say we're not going to be the world's policemen but we're going to be a leader that we are a member of the community of nations and countries look up to us. And I'm not you know I really love that question because we have lost standing in the world because of the war in Iraq and other positions that are in contravention of our democracy and human rights and freedom stands that we used to have. But I believe we can recover that prestige by taking quick steps a withdrawal from Iraq. Reengagement on global climate change rejoining the various international human rights organizations saying to Europe and Africa in Latin America we're going to care about genocide we're going to care about international poverty we're gonna care about the right of law and the rule of law. You know I can't give you those specific ten point steps but it's just a sense that

America is now going to step up and be a member of the international community. We're going to use diplomacy first so we're going to use mediation and negotiation that we're going to care about those have been left behind. And we're going to lead by example we're going to shut down that horrendous Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib and all those other symbols of of America. I won't say what's the word. Something that we weren't that we haven't been I would say that my effort to become president is to restore our image abroad by taking our country back and being what we used to be. All right Chris thanks very much. Let's go now to Steve Inskeep. Good morning Steve. Hey how are you doing. Fine. What's on your mind. What question do you have for the governor. OK. To Marlow a week or so back to Jones. But my question here is I enjoy your pragmatism and your willingness to work with what's actually unlike burning.

But my question is What's your take on the search. The three state options for Iraq or even a two state option should Turkey balk at. Given the Kurds their own homeland. Well Senator Biden has put out a plan that I believe involves a possible partition along the lines you talked about. Look I'm for exploring all options. What I want is to bring the three parties in a room the Kurds the Sunnis and the Shias and we're going to say we are withdrawing. But what we want is a structure where you divide oil revenues where you have a central government where you have a possible partition of the three entities you share power and you guys haven't done this and you need to do this to bring peace to your country so a Dayton type of conference remember in Bosnia with date we brought all the parties together with maps and you take this territory this bridge you know it's very specific

but it took American leadership it took an American ambassador by the name of Richard Holbrooke who succeeded me as U.N. ambassador. He did this before he took the job as U.N. ambassador to do it. We have diplomats and the political leadership and well to do this but instead we use the military option we say the answer is a surge more troops more national guardsmen more of our kids at risk. I mean you know everyone's talking about how much longer we're going to be there. You know these are a time frame in which our kids American soldiers are dying. And I've had enough all right Governor you've talked before about the comparison to Bosnia but the situation on the ground in Bosnia at the time when the Dayton Accords were negotiated was that the Serb forces were getting desperate. They were looking at losing ground after having been on the offensive right now in Iraq.

American policy is actually arming two sides. Both the government Shia dominated forces as well as the Sunni tribal leaders. Are we in the same situation such that a negotiated three or two state solution is actually possible. Of course we are. John It takes political will to bring people together. Yes. You know in Bosnia we even had military intervention by the United States. I believe that was justified because of a genocide. We have 130000 troops in Iraq. So what you do is you bring the three parties and you do as we partitioned in Bosnia these territories. This is yours. This is yours. You divide oil revenues. Of course it is. Diplomacy is the same everywhere. Maybe the circumstances are different. The history are different but you have the same situation tribal and

ethnic warfare tribal and ethnic hatreds. The way you bring them together is under a diplomatic plan enforced by peacekeeping troops. This would be the same thing. Governor you have an extensive resume you've got this broad experience. You have been having a difficult time breaking through into the top three among the Democratic presidential contenders. Why do you think that is. And what do you think will change it. Well I don't have the money those guys have. I don't have the glamour and the celebrity. You know I'm not in Washington getting all the press from the national media but I'm the best prepared candidate I've got the best plans. I represent change. I have experience. I'm electable in November. You know this. First of all John this race is seven months away so nobody really is paying attention right now in New Hampshire. You maybe you alluded

to it. I'm moving up. I mean I'm the only candidate that has been moving up course I started below the margin of error but I've been moving up. I'm close to in some polls in double digits. My fundraising is respectable. You know I'm campaigning the way New Hampshire writes I believe want to elect the president. I'm going house to house I'm having town meetings. You know once we get into the full debates once New Hampshire I get a chance to see my program what I'm about what I want to do. I am a candidate of change. Things will move my way in but I'm not worried about not breaking through. Now it's six months away. And New Hampshire will settle this presidential race is not going to be the Washington D.C. pundits who are telling everybody well these are the top three. And this is what they've raised. And this is what they stand for. Let them keep doing that. I'm picking up votes in New Hampshire and Iowa going house to house and being grassroots. That's me.

Well you know New Hampshire primary voters are rather pragmatic. And one of the concerns that they'll often bring up is electability. One of the reasons they go for well-financed candidates is they feel that they will have the money to successfully lead a general election campaign. So what do you say to those people for whom electability of a Democrat is a leading issue. Well I can win in November. You know we've we've kept nominating candidates that can win in the Northeast and in California but in between they can't win in the southwest in Arizona New Mexico Nevada. If John Kerry had won those three states he'd be president today even by losing Ohio. Seven out of the eight presidents John have been governors or ex governors. I'm a governor. I have the most foreign policy experience credentials should be a factor in this race and it shouldn't be money who raises the most money in fact we ought to have public financing.

If I get campaign every day instead of spending half of my time raising money I know I could win. So electability I believe I bring broad support nationally. I believe that I can get several states that other candidates have not gotten namely the southwest. We need to win one or two states in the south. We need to do well in Florida and Ohio. So we haven't elected a senator in 40 years. The last one was special. His name was John F. Kennedy. All right well let's see if we can get one last quick question and Evan in Manchester we don't have a lot of time. What's on your mind. All right. Governor I was asking you championed and signed legislation making new Mexico a state to protect the seriously ill use of medical marijuana with a doctor's approval on the campaign trail. You've also repeatedly punched and the Bush administration's policy of having DEA agents raided arrest patients on behalf of several cancer survivors. I personally no thank you. And can you talk more about your support for this issue and how you protect patient access to medical marijuana.

Well I don't support for instance decriminalizing marijuana but for individuals like you you know I had a bunch of people in New Mexico that had cancer that were suffering and they said they wanted a chance to get relief ease their pain. And I said if we can have a program a planned supervised by our Department of Health that that is very strict that has safeguards I'll support this even if it isn't popular. We don't do enough cancer research in this country. We don't do enough Alzheimer's research. We should be doing more about stem cell research and kids that have autism right now it's proliferating and our veterans PTSD so you know if there is a relief a small way I can help and do it properly like medical marijuana I'll do it. I'm not going to legalize marijuana and hard drugs and cocaine. But if this is properly supervised I will do that and I hope your pain is eased and I've made at least in New Mexico the lives of those that want to have a little relief. Well Governor you've been spending a lot of time in New Hampshire and in Iowa. Where

can people expect to see you in the state. Well you see me everywhere all over the place. But I mean coming up. Oh coming up. Oh my God I wish I had my calendar here but I'm going to be making an announcement on women's issues at noon in Concord today. I'm going to be on the sea coast today in Portsmouth and Dover in Rochester town meetings. I think if you can get it all on the Web site Richardson for president dotcom tomorrow we're going to be in Carroll County. I'm going to be in Conway Wolfeboro Osprey. I'm going to be around. You don't have to worry about not seeing me you'll see me because I'm going to go straight to the people to win this race. All right well Governor Richardson Democratic presidential candidate thank you very much for coming in. Thank you very much John. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. Our producer is Ty Fraley our engineer is Brady Carlson our interns are Rebecca Herscher and Sean Frederick our executive producer

is Keith shields and I'm Jon Greenberg in for Laura Conaway. In