Odyssey

And who has set the agenda. Whose votes will make a difference at the end of the day. And what is at stake for voters and for politicians. Stay tuned and join in the conversation today on Odyssey. Next after the news from NPR here on WBEZ Chicago. For National Public Radio News in Washington I'm Craig Wyndham. The Democratic and Republican parties and candidates all across the country have launched last minute advertising blitzes and get out the vote efforts because in this midterm election turnout is considered crucial in the number of close races as NPR's Elizabeth Arnold reports. Surrogates for both parties are fanned out across the country. House Speaker Newt Gingrich appeared in Wisconsin at the Green Bay Packers game to campaign with Senate hopeful Mark Newman. In California Vice President Al Gore campaigns today with gubernatorial hopeful Gray Davis. Republicans are hoping to supplement gains made over the last two elections. Democrats are hoping to hang on to what they've got. The brightest spot for Democrats may be in

California where they hope to end 16 years of republican control over the weekend Davis presided over a huge get out the vote effort in East L.A. He rallied Latino union members ideos ideos Dan Lungren and Benito Gray Davis. The big turnout for Davis could help another Democrat on the ticket. Incumbent Senator Barbara Boxer is in a close race with state treasurer Matt. Elizabeth Arnold NPR News Los Angeles. The International Red Cross has tripled the amount of aid it's requesting to help the areas of Central America hard hit by the remnants of Hurricane Mitch. The confirmed death toll from the storm is now more than a thousand. But officials say that number may double. Rescue crews have returned to the grim task of searching for bodies in villages buried by a massive mudslide in Nicaragua. Heavy rains over the weekend in Oklahoma and Kansas have caused flooding that has forced the evacuation of hundreds of people from their homes. More rain is forecast this week for the region. Israel has delayed implementation of the peace accord signed with the

Palestinians. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says the deal must first be approved by the Israeli cabinet. NPR is Eric Weiner reports from Jerusalem. But good morning and welcome to odyssey on WBEZ Chicago ninety one point five FM. I'm Gretchen help which we do know when the news went so we'll just get rolling here. Today we're going to talk about the election. It's tomorrow campaigns are winding down. It's been a long election season. They were to talk about what sort of

the broad themes what's gone on what the issues are who got to shape them. And what's at stake in this election. Joining me to do so David Schaper and surely jihad of WBEZ news and Laura Washington who is editor and publisher of The Chicago Reporter Good morning to all of you have been wonder. Good morning good morning thanks for joining me. Let's begin I suppose with the news of the day the governor's race or the news of the week and perhaps the governor's race is ending up just as as nasty as it's been all along. Winding down with some final nastiness surely a good old adage is out of style in a little bit of brawl is unfolding in the governor's race. We saw some activity on both sides both on the pushrod side and the Ryan sides with the photograph. That's been on RYAN Some Ryan flyers featuring pushcart eating an ice cream hone and hugging up to a guy with a big sign that says guns equal freedom. And it sort of looks like the shot is given that slogan the big vote push hard and after that and this is both a shard

and push on so that was a big ambush that happened months ago with the Taste of Chicago some guy came up to him and said take your picture with me. Somebody else shoved a sign into that guy's hand someone snapped a shot and they disappeared into the crowd months later in terms of Ana Ryan. Ana Ryan shot handbill shocking to make a push ARDLER like some crazed gun toting politician or whatever. OK so why why is it race been so nasty I mean we've had this Senate race has been there's been some name calling and some nastiness there but there's also been so substantive conversation that you also have just to be just to be fair on the on the other side of that there have been some placards or lawn posters that have shown up that have featured in that appear to be Georgia. On behalf of George Ryan. But underneath his name it says you know elect George Ryan Commercial Driver's licenses for sale here expires November buyers November 30th.

I've had some of those and I've actually seen those out and they're they look like Dorian says George Ryan in beautiful you know and I think the reason is we have some old fashioned entrenched Chicago political organizations battling it out in that governor's race Madigan's organization in support of the Shard. And Ryan has his own organization that they know how to play they they go by some old rules of Chicago politics and they and those the rules that are being played out in this game at the last hours of the campaign. I love how politicians get when they dirty up each other. I remember that. George Ryan was very outraged by the commercial that potsherd been running early in the campaign accusing him practically of murder in the death in that terrible accident killed the children because of some irregularities in his in the secretary of state's licensing procedures. But it's on both sides as you point out surely I think one of the other reasons is that there aren't there isn't that much in the way of differences between these two candidates ideologically. It's been pointed out again and again that they are closer to each other than they are apart and so they have to

find other ways to distinguish either by misrepresenting their records. Which is not uncommon in politics has happened I think in the Senate race as well. Or by appointing really aberrant characteristics about their personalities or their backgrounds or what have you. So I think that's what you have. You're incentives and it's a closely fought race I think is going to be a lot closer in the end than people realize and so you're in when you're desperate to get out your people to get out your final message it gets nasty. I actually would be surprised if at least part of the tactic that I've read that this is been true of George Ryan certainly all along but even a push ards hopes of getting the middle ground if there is any in this campaign the undecided voters just so frustrated that they just throw up their hands and stay away from the polls because then it's kind of mano a mano it's organization against organization and I think Gloria is right that this is going to be a lot closer than than it first blush it may have seemed simply because the organizations in the Democratic Party are really gearing up. I don't think it's completely across the board I think that in some wards of the city certainly maybe not

so much downstate but Limp-Asparagus still a tough sell particularly in among lakefront liberals. And I think to a certain extent in the minority community as well although I think he's made great strides there in the last couple of weeks. It just may be a little bit too too little too late. The story of Illinois politics is sort of when it comes to general election time. It is a race to the middle. The middle ground Illinois voters vote in the middle ground. And so in the Ryan pushcart race I think Ryan has been a lot more successful in sort of claiming some middle ground claiming that middle turf and in trying to co-opt some of the otherwise traditionally Democratic voters. Well let me ask you in this race then from what you understand about how voters are making up their mind what are the issues that are driving them to make a choice and push hard part of the equation is getting people to just go and vote not people who would vote for Ryan but people who are deciding whether to vote or not vote for him but what do you think are the key issues that a voter sitting home most people in the middle ground are looking for who want to vote for. Is it the ones that the

candidates have made the center of the election of their campaigns or are there other issues. I was noticing that the endorsements. I think it was a Sun-Times indorsement talked about George Ryan and how he could get things done he was a guy who could get things done he didn't talk. Talk a little bit about his position and what sorts of policies he might pursue but basically said this guy will get more done than Bush and we take him so that in the end you'll make and ironically bet it's not really an issue that is a question of qualification and I think in the case and in style although I think Ryan has less style at least from what I've seen on the campaign trail and less style and less personal connections I think with the voters and the charges but I think in the case of the argument Ryan is that he is a longtime stablish mint. He may be establishment in terms of term politically but he's also establishment terms his whole health he's held a number of elective offices including elective offices in which he has been administrator in Prashar cannot make that claim so I think the perception at least Ryan would like you to buy into is that he's going to be a better administration going to be a better he's going to be more of a doer. It doesn't have anything to do with what he's doing and you don't and I think you I think in campaigns in general you don't

hear enough about you know what their positions are and how they will be implemented what they will do in office if they are pro-choice. What will that mean in office if they are if they are pro guns what it is. I think that one of the questions that push art has been trying to raise throughout this campaign and has had some measure of success as is sure George Ryan's a doer but who is he going to do things for and what he's going to be doing for them. He's taken a lot of money from the HMO has he's taken a lot of money from gambling interests and he's just taken a lot of money from a lot of people across the board. And as John Kass writes in The Chicago Tribune column today there's going to be an expectation for the political F-word Once he may be elected and that's favors. And there's a lot of that. Again not really a meaty issue that I think a lot of just average voters can really relate to. They want to see things maybe go the way they have been going the economy in Illinois pretty good things have been going humming along pretty well. And if I think Jim Edgar was on this ballot he'd have a strong measure of support from most voters and therefore George

Ryan has been trying to kind of capture that for lack of a better word incumbency type of position. And therefore there aren't a lot of real issues here. The abortion issue both are virtually identical on that and that being a hot button issue that may just keep some Democrats away from the polls as opposed to bringing them out for either candidate. There is very little difference from front on the issue of gun control. The caviar being that while both candidates have changed their position and both were very solidly pro-gun maybe 20 years ago it taken a lot longer to change his positions on gun control measures. Most of his changes have just been in the last two years as he's geared up for a run and run for governor George Ryan changing his position and supporting many gun control measures. But before many other candidates statewide were doing so. Another issue I think that's not on the public are a breed arbors should be the issue of legislative control and you've got a little bit there David. And I think she really mentioned it when she talked about Mike Madigan.

The perception is that he did. Mr Shard will be very much under the thumb or very much connected to Mike Madigan who is of course the leader of the family right now. If Meghan is able to hold on to his ear he has to do vote majority. Right now if he's able to hold on to that or even grow it and push our war to become governor who would really be running the state house. That's one issue the other issue is the upcoming legislative remit that's going to happen in the year 2000 when we do our next census not just in in in Illinois but throughout the country. And who is going to make the decisions about reapportionment who How how will the district be re apportioned and infinite. It's likely based on population projections that projections may actually lose a seat in Congress because of that reinforcement. So if the governor obviously the leader of the house because the House will have a lot of control if there's also a democratic if there's if there's two Democrats in Springfield versus two Republicans that can make a big difference for Democrats and for legislative representations of the state but that's. Has that been on voters radar screens in general that was my point again. You know but

what here medical test game that's being played out. But I remember this is really important in the minds of an average voter particular let's say your traditional lakefront liberal in the city of Chicago or or maybe you live up in Evanston in issues like abortion and being having somebody in office who is pro-choice is important to you somebody who supports gay rights traditional liberal type litmus test issues and you don't see a candidate in the governor's race that you can vote for on either of those issues but say that the Republicans maintain the governor they they keep somebody in office who's a Republican obviously George Ryan. They keep control of the Illinois Senate and maybe they win back control of the Illinois House. Now Republicans control the mapping process and what districts maybe how districts are carved how boundaries are changed. And if indeed Illinois does lose a congressional seat or two as we saw in the 1970s what district are they going to carve up. Well chances are they would want to get rid of a Liberal seat and maybe they'd try to redistrict to the Ninth

Congressional District which seems to be winning and will probably be elected to that sedates district. Maybe they'll carve that up into a lot of different other districts. And that seat is that voice is no longer representing people in Illinois I think people need to be thinking about those types of things that they're going to the point is that issue the issue of reapportionment and redistricting is that at the top of the radar screens among the political class if we can call them that is that the main issue from this from if you're looking at this is an election from Springfield are they looking at it that way while the rest of us look at it from from other people talking about the political classes in elected officials or would be elected officials certainly as the top of their screen because you're talking about their political survival their jobs. But I think that's where it stops I think unfortunately these very complicated legislative legal issues are never issues that did resonate with the public at large. You can see that from the from the big fight we've just went through the last seven or eight years over the Chicago war remapping the fact that there was a major federal lawsuit in in court for years that went through several appeals in

in which eventually it was proven that was racially discriminate was discriminatory. And yet folks on the street did not hear about it. Let's talk a little bit about money because when we talk about Lori you brought up the issue of who whether pushed hard would be his own man as governor whether be under the thumb of Mike Madigan in part that is because Bashar has had to rely on the Democratic organization for his support in this campaign because he hasn't had a lot of money. I mean unions have been a union PACs political action committees that are traditionally Democratic like unions in general have been big supporters for the shark. Let's talk about people I mean there's always a discussion about money and political influence in those sorts of things but let's talk about how it's played itself out in this campaign. One thing that it's well it's played itself out on a lot of levels in the Senate race it's played itself out in a lot of big ways we have a Republican candidate Peter Fitzgerald who's who's bankrolling his own campaign basically So he's not from his point of view I'm not indebted to anybody I'm completely independent. I owe nobody

or the favor I owe nobody anything. You know you're going to get an independent guy if you get me. The flip side is the negative side is he's run this tightly controlled campaign. You don't really see him out in the street you don't really see him interacting with voters you certainly don't see him in debate or in a face to face situation with his opponent incumbent Carol Moseley Braun. He only he only agreed to one televised debate one radio debate. Because he is able to craft his message very specifically and there in a very controlled way through his television advertisements and by a lot of them so he doesn't need exposure of it all over the all over the place radio TV in that way. And so the question is does that do a service to the public or disservice to the public. You could argue I think very very influential that the public loses when there is no debate in that in that race in a sense the public is getting gypped because there's not an actual dialogue these two candidates are very different are opposing on the

issues. Unlike Ryan and pushcart who have sort of tried to meet somewhere to the right of the middle. Fitzgerald and Braun are on either side. In terms of the issues and you don't necessarily know that if you're if you're even if you're a diligent observer of current events and news programming and the newspapers and things like that you don't necessarily know what these candidates stand for what Fitzgerald stands for in a sense because you only know the image that he's projecting because he's bankrolling his own campaign in that way. It's ironic because you just mentioned the money and you mention the lack of debate and those are two major obstacles to educating the electorate but yet the electorate doesn't. Their response to that the response of the millions 10 to 12 to 15 million dollars that is going to spend and their response to the lack of debate not just in that Senate race I think across the board there has been a much less debate much less public right discussion among the candidates in communities you know even the League of Women Voters could couldn't couldn't really get together serious

debates. I think that the response you get from the electorate is just a turn to turn off. They don't get angry and say I'm outraged at this kind of money could be in a campaign so I'm going to push candidates who are for campaign finance reform. I'm out of debate so I'm going to throw out the ones that have been been less likely to make right there where instead they just don't show up in the polls. And that's exactly and that's part of a strategy as well of certain candidates like in a sense Fitzgerald. Dozen of the voters who are going to turn often don't show at the polls. That's fine with him he just needs get to his about URLs at the polls. And so it's almost a benefit to have his voters not to have the other voters not show up at the polls. We have to tell what happened this weekend though which was which was which was almost a laugh. Laugh out loud kind of stuff where you know the traditional campaign season in Illinois ends with a fly around the state where the candidates you know make several stops and tour the state of Illinois and and it's a big hoopla. Most of the time candidates want the press there to see all the staged events and all the interaction with the crowds and all the great reception and that kind of thing but

Fitzgerald refused to allow the press to travel with him on his fly around and this is kind of unheard of where you don't he prohibited the press from traveling with him. And and what do you think his reason was it's kind of a. A skewed or it's a skewed reasoning he says I'm a rich guy. I'm worried if the press flies with me around the state we have a problem or an accident that someone is going to sue me for everything I've got so so he said no I don't want a lawsuit the personal injury lawyer will be after me. Well maybe after the victor crown affairs of which I know you need to let me know you're the digital man who is as long as it takes to get into a run into Columbus Day parade with THIS YEAR OLD PEOPLE was thrown to the ground he says was heard has hired a lawyer. Maybe that maybe anybody has a legitimate fear there but but I don't know about that I think that's interesting that you say that this year went back that strategy because for a while for the last couple weeks he had been more open he had his first press conference in his campaign last week. He spent more time in Chicago and he's been throughout the campaign but then it sounds like over the weekend he went back to

his his new rose garden strategy and maybe because he thought that was more effective for what I think is really interesting about that this whole issue is if I mean essentially these guys are applying for a job they're asking us to give them a job and regardless of how much money they spend to get a job that pays a fraction of what they're spending to get it. Would it be strange for let's say I'm applying for a job to become CEO of some major corporation or CEO of WBEZ But my strategy is to send in a resume send in a letter outlining you know what my strengths may be and then instead of actually interviewing for the job with a search committee or any of the key decision makers I'm just going to you know leave phantom 15 second and 30 second voicemails and and send emails. And most of those will will attack anybody else who's applying for the job as opposed to talk about my own qualifications. Isn't Isn't that insane isn't that just just incredibly weird. Well we can definitely conclude that reporters you know they're not happy with it I mean like

stories that we like and we want you know they want me. To come out and it's not an issue of liking or not liking the candidates an issue of public knowledge about what's going on and what the issues are and letting people know you know where you stand on certain issues but I think it is you've raised a secondary issue that goes along or perhaps even the major issue that goes along with money because that issue of access by the press is sort of unusual and in this case and sort of unique to the Peter Fitzgerald campaign but the other part of the money story is that what has Fitzgerald done with the money it hasn't just been degraded his own image but it's been to set the agenda in terms of shaping public perceptions of Carol Moseley Braun I think and I think this is a measure when a governor says well I think it's very important to say that this isn't a job like most other jobs and that you would have to go through the interview process. And the reason this is happening is because it works it's effective. 30 second television commercials when you see them time and time again. You know like it or not they do have an impact and they do in in terms of turning off some

voters who will stay home yes that's part of it but of the voters that do go to the polls they are swayed a great deal by what they see in these television commercials and polls continually show that most people say I don't believe what's in the ads but they do set the agenda as you said and they do kind of talk about what the issues are and people may not really fully know exactly where the candidate stands but where the other candidate doesn't stand. You know what I mean in terms of of how bad they may or may not be it's really interesting to see. Most people don't believe what the candidates say about themselves in a lot of this research but they do believe a little bit a little bit of what they're saying about the opponent because they think that there must be some grain of truth there and usually there is in terms of the George Ryan going push hard race about pushcarts position on guns well for a long time in a down state to state senator and congressman he in a rural area where hunting is big he was very very ardent supporter of certain gun control measures and therefore

there was that history and there is a grain of truth now he's flipped his position on a few things and he says he's much more in the middle in a more appealing state wide but. But again you know George Ryan hammers away at that. But the most. Money I think you know actually because the money thing it seems like it's cutting two ways because we've talked about you know George Ryan's got a lot of money in his campaign chest so he gets to be perceived as the guy who he's not beholden to the rest of his party so he'll get to be his own man as governor. Yet at the same time some people like John Kass as an example are saying that he's actually beholden to the people who gave him the money for shard didn't take money from very many people you know caps on on how many people could contribute. So he's not beholden to them. But he will be his own man as governor because he'll be run by Mike Madigan or the rest the Democratic Party so you're damned if you do that and if it's of six of one half dozen of the other it's you know in that race you know unlike Peter Fitzgerald George Ryan doesn't have his own personal fortune to rely on so that there are contributors to his

campaign. A lot of them who have given a lot of money. Illinois has no limit what you can give to a political candidate. And George Ryan hasn't set any limits of his own to his credit Clinton chart has although there's a backdoor way of getting money you know people can give a lot of money then to the Democratic Party which Mike Madigan controls that money is spent on his behalf. Same with the the union issue. You know Glenn Prashad says I don't take any PAC contributions or anything from it whether it be corporate or labor. And he doesn't but the AFLCIO is spending a ton of money on his behalf. It's you know again it is kind of splitting hairs here in terms of who might be beholden to what but that's just the reality of politics in this state and in this country. It's one of the reasons Paul Simon decided when he stepped down he didn't want to have to spend as much time on the phone raising money for another campaign instead of actually doing his job but that's the reality of politics in this country. One of the other big things that Ryan has in his favor which relates back to campaign finance

reform issue is his office as secretary of state there's no there's no accident and everybody want to be secretary of state in Illinois. It's a great it's a great job to have not so much because it's necessarily all that rewarding. But but because it has many many jobs many patronage jobs and it has access to to do too many natural contributors in terms of the services it provides. That's why George Ryan is doing so well with this fund raising that is also raised can push hard has raised a criticism of George Ryan's office whether or not you want to believe he's responsible for the deaths of children because of a trucking accident could certainly have to have some concerns about the recent indictments of its personnel and secretary of state's office for. For by unfailing license and licenses and questions about their raising campaign funds for Ryan on the job using that their jobs to raise money for him. That's an issue that as an issue that resonates throughout elective offices in Cook County in Illinois especially elective offices that have a higher profile. The other issue is his name recognition and name

recognition you get when your name is on every single license in the state. Name recognition you have when you have hundreds of offices around the state. And that's that's something that gives him a gave him a big automatic advantage walking in the door before the campaign even started in the Senate race in terms of money. You know we talked about how buying the television ads sort of Gyp's the public out of any kind of debate on the issues and that it does but we weren't saying that that wasn't a smart tactic if you're talking about hard core political strategy. And yes that money does shape the agenda you know. Fitzgerald definitely took the lead in terms of running a smart campaign Fitzgerald definitely took the lead in terms of running a smart campaign defining his opponent making his opponent the issue making it the race not about issues but about a referendum on Carol Moseley Braun and then painting Carol Moseley Braun as as as as a as a failure and to as to state it mildly compared to how he's stated it.

He certainly did. He certainly has been successful and he certainly has been effective in terms of that kind of hardcore campaign strategy. So yeah the money has been able to help him in that. In succeeding with that let's talk about it we need to take a break and in a couple minutes but let me remind listeners that we're talking with Shirley jihad of WBEZ News David Schaper of WBEZ news and Laura Washington who is editor and publisher of The Chicago reporter. We are looking at the election at the campaign season as it winds down and as we get ready to go to the polls tomorrow. Let's we we raised a few minutes ago the question of getting voters to the polls. There seem to be two groups whose votes people are worried about. Let's talk about how much these groups overlap one is undecided people in the middle and the other is that mostly Democratic voters who just don't feel like going in the voting for Democratic candidates this year. Is there Is there overlap between those two groups. Sure of course there's undecided voters across the political spectrum. I think David's point earlier is

well taken that most of the undecided voters tend to be the ones that don't have the intensity of feeling about a particular canner particular cause they're you know they may be traditionally a Democrat traditionally Republican but they're willing to go in other directions but they're undecided because. In some cases like Ryan Prashar this there's such similarities between candidates they can't make any real clear decisions. Partly it's the negative campaigning it's a whole number of reasons. But but that is an important I wouldn't add to their other constituencies too that you'd do that at least have been discussed by the pundits as being key in this election. One is the women's vote which has been key in many many elections. It's been made clear in the last five or 10 years that women do we do have a real powerful voice that if they if they resonate if certain issues resonate with them certain can resonate with women and especially in Chicago area the minority vote socially African-American vote but also to a certain extent a Latino vote. What those voters decide to do in those voters tend to be traditional Democratic can make a difference for a candidate but is that in that in those cases we're talking about at least in terms of the minority vote we're mostly talking about getting voters to the polls because once they get there they'll likely vote Democratic.

Sure and that in that particular case. OK but with women we're talking about who knows they could vote I will eventually go up what where when they don't show up it makes a difference in the election results in 92 women showed up in big numbers in 94 women certainly women did not show up and the women who did not show up in 94. Democrats are saying that led to the Republican sort of sweet and Democrats want those women. They're calling them waitress moms now are soft now. They want those women to get to the polls this time around. And so those are some of the constituencies that are key. But it's also interesting that they're going people like you said are going back to the base. I mean you could argue that's a smart strategy you've got to get your base out. This whole election because of so many wild cards that we've never dealt with like the Clinton affair and different things like that is dependent on who which voters come out to the polls. So you do want to get your base out. On the other hand someone like Carol Moseley-Braun campaigning at the end in the black churches in the black community you could I think legitimately ask why.

I'm not a radical is that I don't want to say what I do. I mean I think it's a standard sort of a one to one politics solidify the base then go to the middle and she skipped that part and I don't know why. I think she would say she would see her handlers would say that she did do that but she has to run a statewide race and she's probably less known even now after six years since this is a senator down state. And you still hear the complaints from people downstate we've never seen her in our county. There's a lot of counties in downstate Illinois. So I think she's trying to. She was probably trying to spread herself as far as she could. Freshly also given the fact that she is a senator she has a management center has to be in Washington and not in Washington her point is going to be not being there is it wasn't for the last three weeks or so when the Congress finally recess that she was able to be here full time. Peter Fitzgerald is capitalized on very very well and in particular one of the ways he's kind of

avoided a lot of media contact and news coverage of his campaign is by campaigning in smaller counties more rural areas of the state and beating this drum of I'm here in Carroll's never been here or she's been in Nigeria more than she's been in here. So that's been pretty effective for his point. Well that's one of the mythology right now because he really hasn't been in those places much more than Carol Moseley-Braun has been one of the one last quick point before I know we got to go to a break but what about motivating the bases. One interesting statistic I read and I hope it's accurate I can't cite the exact source. So I think it is but I read somewhere recently that in the Christian Coalition. Of the membership and of the the core religious right they turn out about 80 percent to vote. I think if you look at some of the stall wart Democratic wards in the city of Chicago turnout there again is probably in the 60 70 80 percent range wards like the 11th the 14th the thirty third on the north side where they do have a machine

getting out the vote. But I also think that the the middle ground and in particular talking about the women's vote. It's an incredibly complex it's sometimes easy for us to sit in a studio here and kind of over generalize about where that electorate there that portion of the electorate may be. I think there are incredibly complex reasons that people may or may not go out to the polls. And I think you know particularly in the suburbs that there are some interesting races that may motivate people for different reasons to go out to vote. Whether or not it may just be their local school board has a referendum question. On whether or not to raise that the tax levy or sell bonds to build better schools. The congressional race in the 13th district is pretty interesting in that you have Susan Hines running a Democrat a fairly moderate woman candidate running against Judy Biggert who's a state legislator and Republican who's also fairly moderate So there are reasons for people to go out to the polls. It just you know the question is that they may not know what to do or what they're going to do when they get to some of those top

issues that usually generate the most interest in an election. All right let's take a quick break that's David Schaper of WBEZ news surely Jihad is also here from WBEZ news and Laura Washington from the Chicago reporter. When we come back I will talk a little more about those words you were talking about David and getting out the vote there. There's been some news on that front over the weekend. Well also take some calls 3 1 2 8 3 2 3 1 2 4 is our number 3 1 2 8 3 2 3 1 2 4 this is Odyssey I'm Gretchen Helford And you're listening to WBEZ Chicago. Support for this WBEZ program is provided by Panera Bread St. Louis Bread Company is changing its name to Panera Bread same freshly prepared breads and pastries a new name with 19 area locations. Support for programming on WBEZ is provided by the Film Center at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago presenting director Frederick Wiseman and its critically acclaimed documentary public housing. The film will screen November 6 with an appearance by the director a panel discussion chaired by Studs Terkel will take place on November 7th

full schedule information is available by calling 3 1 2 4 4 3 37 37. I'm WBEZ news director Robby Harris. As you know the midterm elections are upon us. If you'd like to learn more about the judicial candidates will appear on the November 3rd ballot local legal organizations have evaluated them and you can find their recommendations by visiting WBEZ his home page on the Worldwide Web. The address is w w w dot WBEZ dot. Or call the station at 3 1 2 8 3 2 9 1 5 0. This is WBEZ Chicago ninety one point five FM. I'm Gretchen health. You're listening to Odyssey and we are winding down our election coverage in anticipation of tomorrow's voting. We're talking with David Schaper and surely news and Laura Washington of the Chicago reporter we're going to take some calls in just a moment. The number is 3 1 2 8 3 2 3 1 2 4. Let's talk a little more about the crux of the whole issue which is people going to the

polls and casting a vote. There was news over the weekend about what about absentee ballots. Surely tell us about absentee ballot other find Chicago Chicago going to the you know because if you can't you know you can't get a regular voter you might as well get a dead vote you know and if they don't go the polls at least they can vote absentee because they're not really are in and I'm in now so at least in one case they found that a woman who passed away at age 79 in June central ballot in October requested an absentee. Yeah or did she actually send the ballot into you know I think it's about right in October. Someone requested that obviously she didn't actually you know and so the Republicans are asking for you know let's make sure we make a check of all these absentee ballots and make sure that there's no foul play here and so Election Commissioners are going through all that paperwork and trying to figure out if everything is on the up and up and of course in several Chicago wards where there is a vigorous organization an effort to get out the vote as we've been talking about. Absentee ballots are sort of way above the average you usually see about

500 and there are maybe three or four times that many in a handful of wards on the southwest side northwest side wards in Chicago. And so there's there's going to be some checking into that to see if everything is OK. I can already see a legal challenge down the road Surely if there are any close races within a few percentage points I can already see people running into court on Wednesday morning. But it does raise a question about just how clean the voter registration rolls are and that's been something that is reporters looked at over from time to time over the years and this is the fact that there are there is still apparently or possibly still so much extra in extra registrations people who have died who who were no longer in the area who were still registered to vote. That leaves room for fraud it allows allows an opportunity for people to use the names of dead people or people who are no longer voting. In some cases there are a lot of people who are voting out of their district they have moved to Springfield. You know perhaps in their voting here instead of in Springfield there's a there's a lot of these a lot of room for fraud. But in another Chicago sort of twisted trick the Republicans are pointing the

finger and saying look it's Democratic vote fraud and the Democrats are pointing it back at the Republicans saying oh no that woman who passed away and registered. That was a Republican trick to make to make it look like it was a democratic and very convoluted affair. It's always complicated and it would be one thing that absentee voting is kind of an early barometer of how well the machine is going to be up for some of these elections and as surely as pointing out absentee balloting is up the requests for ballots is up in a lot of stalwart wards the Eleventh Ward which is Mayor Daley's old Ward still controlled by his brother John the 14th Ward is Berks ward and it's a very active very politically aggressive ward. And it's up there the 13th which is is that Mike Madigan of the 23rd. Those goes wards on those on the southwest side are also in the thirty third ward on the north side pick Mels ward which I think will be very active this

election. So high you're saying high request absentee notice probably indicates a high turnout on Election Day. Well turnout is relative based on its organizational turnout. Yes and why is turnout. Why is it why is this kind of activity that's going on ahead of the election how does that reflect on that. I think I think it reflects on I think it reflects on the different interests that certain politicians have in this election. For example the Daleys have a great deal of interest in keeping John Stroger in the president's office at the county board. And that's that's very very important and that's can could be a very very tight race in there. So Mayor Daley has a lot riding on that and I don't think it when I when Mayor Daley has been put put up against the wall before and we saw it I think in 1906 when when he was able to help Dick divine defeat a popular fairly popular incumbent Jack Jack O'Malley at the secretary of state of state's attorney's office. So I think that there's a lot riding on that race in particular. Other other awards for example the what what used to be the the

first war of the forty second is now part of that and and I think in the twenty seventh wards in downtown in the near west side Jesse White being elected secretary of state is very very important there. And you have the remnants of the machine coming back to life to support someone there. In other words it's there's not much reason to vote for example the thirty ninth ward up in the far north side of the city saga gnashing that type of area. There doesn't appear to be a great deal of interest because the candidate for the state Senate who was supposed to succeed. How Carol who who stepped down to run for Congress. In his retiring Randy Barnett was supposed to be the candidate but he was defeated in the primary use the thirty ninth wards guy in the 50th wards guy a guy by the name of IRA Silverstein won. And therefore there's there's the thirty ninth ward from what I hear is kind of laying down in this election because they don't have anything to generate locally and as we heard in the last hour I heard somebody say all politics is local. And that keeps coming up and if they don't have a

reason to go out they may not. All right let's turn to the phones 3 1 2 8 3 2 3 1 2 4 is our number 8 3 2 3 1 2 4. Let's talk to Kevin Good morning Kevin you're on WBEZ. I have a question about the media's role especially in a case like the Senate race where you have a candidate Peter Fitzgerald who I mean ducking the media a lot but he's also ducking a lot of important issues that a senator would have to vote on. For example my organization Peace Action sent him a questionnaire and tried to contact him eight times ask him his position on foreign and military policy. We never got a response we checked his Web site we asked for literature we got nothing from him. We're not the only group I know of at least half a dozen other nonprofit public interest citizen groups that represent all kinds of issues in it. Hundreds of thousands of voters around the state who again were stiffed by Fitzgerald. You know he gave no response. You know out of us we don't just live with that we do what we have to do to get our issues out there we for example we're putting out over 300000 voter guides

that show where the Senate candidates stand on our issues. So are you saying you never answer. Well that's the thing you have to say that he doesn't care about these issues. Half of our federal income tax dollar goes to the military budget but he doesn't think it's important for him to talk about that. He doesn't think it's important for him to talk about whether or not he would vote to ratify the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty or to support arms sales to dictators or not. Question is what's the media's role in exposing a candidate like this who runs on like you said earlier probably a smart strategy for him of not addressing these issues and I'm not defending Senator Moseley-Braun by any means but at least he has a record of six years you know where you're talking about issues Kevin you're raising issues that may well have no track record on I mean he's been senator so he hasn't necessarily voted I have had an opportunity. Create a paper trail or whatever you want to call it and you're going to be you're an amazing that's truly has no track record but if you want to be our senator and represent people all over the state 11 million people in the United States Senate these are issues that will come up before the Senate that he will have to vote on so you can't just say you vote early if you want to say that he doesn't.

I mean then voters would know that even if it's not or doesn't have a well response to what the media can do or what they ought to be doing in a case like this unfortunately what we often do and I'll confess a certain amount of I don't know if it's laziness but it's just you end up going with what you can go with and therefore that's why the horse race is covered so much and the charges and countercharges are covered so much because that's what's there and it's often very difficult to to research and find out where candidates stand. And it's not just you know Peter Fitzgerald it's oftentimes even incumbents in you know in the case of running for a statewide office after having a record in Congress. There's not a lot of congruity to what the issues that may face the new office so you're left with platitudes you're left with very vague general support of quotes of a certain issue but it's hard to find out what the facts are. You just try to report as best as you can I guess. And we've tried here in public radio. I know the reporter does this to

try to go in depth in some issues but there's certainly no way we can get into all of these issues and especially if they're not talking about them or presenting their positions in any way shape or form. I see where you like. We like you got stiffed many times and I know many media organizations have asked Fitzgerald have asked Ryan and and in this election season it was those two candidates who declined any kind of debate in any substantive sort of way. And so we basically we basically got stiffed as well and try and call the campaigns and try and find out where the candidates are going to be and try and bring up the issues with the candidates as best you can. But yeah and I think that I think what you and yours. I've heard this from their camp as well is that. They perceive many of these groups sponsor these forms an ass and Cindy's question you know as being not necessarily nonpartisan groups or non-profits of course and I'm not suggesting it's about peace now but but their perception that it's out there is that these are partisan groups that tend to be progressive that tend

to be lean Democratic in terms of their issues in that it's a no win solution it's a no win in game for a very conservative a relatively conservative candidate to put himself before that group he is not going to win any points and will probably get beaten up in the process and I guess I mean let's wait a minute and let's join as an Army wife who avoids answering questions about all of the here and it's do it they all have their way of saying you know why don't we talk about the issues when you ask. They don't want to answer they'll say why can't we talk about the issues. And right you think you are talking about what's interesting about that though and is it different. It's almost seems to be have been at a different level. Oh yeah I do agree with you and and it's and it is perhaps some of the questionnaires from some as you mentioned Laura some progressive groups but it's also the Republican Chicago Tribune website where there was a questionnaire and the candidates were asked to answer questions and Fitzgerald asked that his not his answers not be published on the Web site of the Chicago Tribune.

So it's you know it's interesting though when covering George Ryan I spent a lot of time with the gubernatorial campaign in covering George Ryan and every time one of these scandals in the driver's license for sale type thing came up and we'd be you know he'd be holding a news conference or something like that and the topic would turn to that he answer a few questions and then he's like come on why can't we talk about the real issues why can't we talk about education and taxes and the economy and blah blah blah. And my response was in several occasions we put in a request to have you on our air and to talk about these issues we've had requests for debate standing for three months. How about it. And then the response is Well we're going through you know up until just a week or two ago it's always been well we're going through all the responses we're seeing we can't possibly do them all we were trying to see what we can and cannot do. And then you end up with with very few forums it's unfortunate I think. And I think campaigns made a strategic decision to paint what the timing of the timing of the campaign and the flow of countercharges and charges are. It's a matter of I remember there was a health care reform at the beginning of October that I was a moderator for and at the beginning of the planning for that every

single major candidate was supposed to be represented. And we ended up with no candidates in person and you know I think you're mostly Brown was the only candidate that sent a representative and I think in the case in the case of both the Senate race in agreement with that was when they were really in the heat of the campaign and the people who were ahead in the polls at that time This year old and Ryan were not about to go out in. They didn't want to go out in public at all especially in a forum where they would be asked about the issues and even that you're not ready to be fair but in a sense the question is whether it will work and we'll find that out tomorrow. All right Kevin thanks very much for your call. Let's talk to Travis Good morning Travis you're not going to be easy. My comment is about I'm a black guy so I'm going to refer to her as the senator as we often do in our community. And I like to say that I'm going to hold my nose and vote for Carol Moseley Braun. Well I think that. If she were running against anyone else not only was he lose but I think she would deserve to lose. She's made so many

mistakes that in my opinion we're soft more ik some of the things that she's done so many things that she said it's been almost like an embarrassment. But the candidate against whom she's running is just so doggone repulsive. We're talking about Peter Fitzgerald a guy who has some outlandish viewpoints is extremely conservative and does not even have the wherewithal to face the public for whom he says he wants to represent. One thing I can say about Carol. She's been raked over the coals and I think she should continue to be raked over the coals for some of the mistakes that she's made. But she does so too or makes herself available to be raked over the coals. That's one and two I think the biggest mistake that she makes is not understanding as someone said earlier this after this this morning all politics is local tipple new coined the phrase about perhaps a decade and a half ago. You have to take care of home. There were times when Carol Moseley Braun did not show up to events in the black in like community that she

should have shown up at for instance the Bud Billiken Parade as a staple in the African-American community in Chicago. I remember a year when she was invited and said that she was coming. He was there many of the with the white aldermen with their brand was perhaps somewhere having a beer. I don't know Travis. She did not show up and that's inexcusable she supposed she was supposed to show up on a number of black radio programs. She did not show up she called the morning of the day you have a say up so I can't make it. These sorts of things you don't do and then expect people to come out and support you the way she's doing. Travis are there do you feel like among your friends and family coworkers or people you talk to about politics do you do a lot of people share your view or are you alone in the way you're approaching this election. Lord yes I am I am a one of many dozens of personal friends who have made the decision to hold their nose and vote. Carol they are I think an equal number of my friends who have said look the system has done just too much for me to come out and support her if

I happen to make it to the book voting booth and I will if I decide on that then going to vote for Sister Carol I'm going to do it. If if I if I'm thinking about one of the many mistakes that she has made I'm not going to vote for. OK I can say one last comment I'd like to make is this. And it's I think of some of it has to do with this this whole issue of sexism that I'd like for the guests to talk about and that is this nine out of 10 of the people I've talked to about caramels a bra in addition to mentioning you know there's other things that mention today have said well she should never get involved at that Matthews guy and there's nothing wrong with Carol that a good man can't fix. But you never hear anyone saying that there's nothing wrong with going in that a good one. Now that is something that I'd like for you all to address and thank you very much. All right thanks Travis. Well I think what I heard Travis articulated the beginning of his comments was the current campaign strategy of caramels he brought in terms of the message he's trying to get out. But lately it's too late for her to apologize for mistakes is too late for her to explain her mistakes. So the message that I've heard her her own campaign people articulate is whether you like her or not

you know whether you think she's made mistakes. Look at the alternative. And some it's the people who are who vote for the first time we see the alternative as being too extreme and too conservative. That's that's the message that they that they are putting out there and we'll have to see that. See with that message works tomorrow and that's enjoying the campaign and it is. But she's that's where she is because she's she's run out of time. She does have a record to run on. She has made mistakes I think she's made based on my observation made less mistakes lately in the last couple years and she's made before some of things of this year old accuser of us simply are not true like she says she's not currently under investigation by the IRS. But she has not gotten a message out. The other aspect of that is while that may work in the African-American community it's probably not going to work among white Democratic stalwarts. And just talking to the a ward committeeman yesterday he said she's a real tough sell and this is a white you know north side ward somewhat liberal and she's just a real tough sell this camp and why she why is she a real tough sell.

Do you think about you. I think that has anything to do with her being African-American and overwhelmingly it does and it would be the case regardless. This is just a guess and I'm not putting words in anybody's mouth but I'm guessing that some people were maybe looking for a reason not to support her and this provides it I mean this is still Chicago and this still can be a racist city at times and that there are people who are out there thinking I don't want an African-American senator and therefore they don't want to vote for. On the other hand I don't see Peter Fitzgerald wooing. You know really winning a lot of stalwart Democrats either because of his ideological views. However you know they may either just skip over that line or they might go for Hannity although we were saying that it was a strange one he's been using that from the beginning. Look at the alternative. Choose me because you can see the alternative has been in his portrayal of family. So he's portraying himself in relation to the alternative as well as opposed to in and of himself. It's interesting to campaign I might be bad but I'm not as bad as the person I'm

running against. You should keep that in mind. All right I think we have time for one more call we'll try to squish it in. Let's talk to Sebastian Good morning Sebastian Sebastian Oh okay that you want yeah. M. Yes okay. Yeah my question is. And I'm thinking back to when Carol Moseley Braun was elected it seemed it seemed that there was a tremendous amount of support from the press. And I look at today and it seems have been a complete 180. And that's quite interesting if you look at exactly how you know you said that Peter Fitzgerald has run a lack of information turning down requests for four questionnaires so forth and so on. I mean to what extent do you guys think that the coverage is more not necessarily anti Carol Moseley-Braun But gee we just won't say that much about her. And how much is of it is that a lot of the plenty about are plenty Why do you think.

You have a good point of things but I mean it's always been couched in that negative and to what extent with with the with the professional media. You know what. If you're running ads then it's your right to say exactly what you want to say but what the professional media to what extent are they trying to play kingmaker so to speak with with Peter Fitzgerald and rejecting Carol Moseley Braun. All right. I don't I don't sense anybody in the mainstream press at all trying to make a play kingmaker and put Peter Fitzgerald in because they don't like Carol. I think that what you are seeing is you know the unfortunate reality of her making appearances and talking to the press more so than her opponent is that she does have to answer a lot of these tough questions and that there are a lot of questions out there. And it's sometimes you have to work a little harder to find the stories and to hear the news about where they stand on particular issues surely happy to do a wonderful piece that that was on Morning Edition this morning that clearly articulated both candidates for Senate

where they stand on particular issues and got away from the mudslinging type thing. But those types of stories in this race I think have pretty much been few and far between at least from broadcast outlets to television seems to really just focus on the latest spin and how people are trying to couch their message and where the horse race stands. I think in the case of both the media and the general electorate especially with white voters there is there's a situation here beyond realistic expectations I heard David Axelrod talking about this a few weeks ago. The fact that she came in as a heroine she came in and she she beat the guys and she came in on the on the tails of the Clarence Thomas the bottle and she was seen in the first African-American woman senator etc. that was a lot for her to have to live up to when she's only human and I think that the expectations were higher and people were less sympathetic to the mistakes because she was a woman. Right Sebastian thanks very much for your call we are flat out of time that was Laura Washington editor and publisher of The Chicago reporter. I've also been joined by Shirley jihad and David Schaper of

WBEZ News thank you very much all of you for coming in. Thank you Regine. Quite young I'll be in tomorrow we'll take a quick break from election stuff we will have election coverage tomorrow night. David Schaper and I will be here from 7:00 till midnight here on WBEZ. Wednesday we'll have a wrap up here on this program. Then we'll take a breather from politics for a while. So I hope you'll stay with us here at Odyssey. I'm Gretchen health and this is WBEZ Chicago. Not the dog and that's my advice. Where are you. It's best that we.

Support for programming on WBEZ is provided by the John Marshall Law School welcoming alonge Uno of the United Nations environment.