Odyssey

Viewing almost dead is on display March 1st through April 26. Information is available at 1 800 field 54. Today's programming on WBEZ is in honor of Jessica Cruz Venner on her 9th birthday from leadership circle members Thomas sides and Suzanne Venner. MCPARTLAND host of Marian McPartland will celebrate her birthday in a live broadcast from New York City Saturday night. MCPARTLAND joined us for the next four. We're going to look at the role of the filmmaking process. How much of what

ends up on the screen is a screenplay or is it something more. What does a director look for in a screen and what makes a great question. When we bring you another That's next after the news. From National Public Radio News in Washington I'm core of a Coleman at least six people died today after an apparent tornado swept through parts of northeast Georgia this morning. Joshua Levs of member station WABE reports. The storm had its worst effect in a rural area just outside Gainesville Georgia. It destroyed part of an elementary school but that was a couple of hours before classes were

to begin for the day so students and staff had not yet arrived. The National Weather Service did not immediately confirm that this storm was a tornado but by all accounts it appears to be one. Some aerial camera footage shows a path of damage 10 miles long and half a mile wide. Emergency crews from throughout the state have rushed to the scene and they're still piecing through the area for people who may be trapped. Many of the area's residents make their livelihoods from poultry. Farming and severe damage from the storm could be devastating. For NPR News I'm Joshua lives in Atlanta. Four Cuban baseball players and a coach who fled their country a week ago in a flimsy boat are safe in the Dominican Republic. The five landed yesterday morning on the north coast of the island in their rickety craft. They had been feared dead. The family of one of the defectors says the Cubans had no provisions when they landed and were barely alive. Russian President Boris

Yeltsin has been battling a respiratory infection for the past week returned to the Kremlin today for a brief appearance. Eve Conant reports from Moscow. Boris Yeltsin made a brief but flamboyant return to the Kremlin today after being sidelined by a cold for the last week. Russian television aired the first pictures of Yeltsin seen since last Thursday showing a smiling President meeting with aides. He did. Thus the upcoming summit with German Chancellor Helmut Kohl and French President Jacques Chirac President Yeltsin's motorcade was seen going through the streets of the capital earlier this morning. No warning had been given that he would be back in the Kremlin but his unexpected return lasted only a few hours. Enough for the television appearance and phone calls to top aides. Yeltsin is now back in his country residence Corkey nine where he's been resting for the past week. For NPR News I'm Eve Conant in Moscow. President Clinton leaves Sunday for a trip to Africa. It's the first time an American president will visit Ghana Uganda Rwanda Botswana Senegal and South Africa. The president will tour countries deemed by the United States to be on the path of

democracy. Mr. Clinton will promote trade and investment. He will also sightseeing closing a two day safari with the first lady. Mr. Clinton will also be guided by South African President Nelson Mandela through the prison where the anti-apartheid leader was jailed for 18 years on Wall Street the Dow Jones Industrials are up more than 25 points at eight hundred twenty eight in heavy trading. The Nasdaq is down 9 and 17 90. This is NPR. In NPR's business that day much of the stock market is extending yesterday's records. But weakness in technology issues has pulled down the Nasdaq nine points to 1790. Bloomberg's Christner has more from New York. Much of the market's advance is being led by tobacco stocks which are higher after an Indiana jury found a major cigarette makers not liable in the death of a woman who never smoked but died of lung cancer. This verdict is the third victory for the tobacco industry in the last 12 months. Aerospace shares are up after Boeing said it

will restructure as the company continues to combine McDonnell Douglas his commercial aircraft business into its own. Boeing is cutting 80 to 100 jobs or about three and a half percent of its workforce and phasing out slower selling airplanes and money center banking issues are higher on speculation about consolidation in that industry. I'm Doug prisoner. The latest incarnation of Pan Am Airlines is still struggling to return to the air. The ground airline has been leasing seven planes and searching for cash to return to regularly scheduled flights. Officials for Pan Am will ask a bankruptcy court judge to stop its cash flow today for daily operations. The judge favors that PanAm turn itself into a charter operation. They could then start making a profit. Pan Am began flying in one thousand twenty eight it went bankrupt in 1900. Investors bought the name of the former company in a new low prized carrier took to the skies two years ago. It too entered bankruptcy earlier this year. Motorola says it will launch five

satellites for Iridium world communications Iridium is creating a five billion dollar global wireless communications network. The new satellites will be launched on Sunday. This is NPR. Support for NPR comes from Borders Books and Music where imaginations can run wild. Over 200 locations nationwide 800 6 4 4 7 7 3 3. Good morning and welcome to August on WBEZ Chicago I'm Gretchen health. And for those of you who have been keeping track it is time again for film for an hour every other Friday feature about the cinema. Today's topic screenwriting the screenplay. How much of. What comes out of the movie begins with the screenplay. We're going to talk about that today. And joining us to do that are three folks involved in the film industry here in Chicago and

elsewhere including Melinda Rhenish who is an independent film director and a writer whose credits include Ruth's journey which was nominated for two Emmys last year you may have seen it on WTW. It was also in the Chicago International Film Festival and her most recent production is on becoming blonde. A short film that was seen at the comedy showcase at the Sundance Film Festival. It was seen at the Seattle Film Festival and will be seen at the Humboldt festival. And also we are joined by Steve Jones who is the producer of such films as Henry Porter of serial killer mad dog and glory and the new release brand new today released movie Wild Things. Also Dave Tilton. He was a screenwriter and assistant professor of screenwriting in the department of radio TV and film. At Northwestern University films from day that we might see in the near future include a girl with Dominic Swain and John Patrick Flanary also reflections on a teenage anti christ film called The last crash and an untitled teen gothic thriller. We'll talk about that one as well. Good morning to all of you and thanks very much for coming in. Thank you. Thank you. Dave told me since you're that you're the purist

here you know that you're the screenwriter and the academic of course is a public radio we will turn to you first. Let's start by asking when you're writing a screenplay what are you trying to communicate to the people who will then take your screenplay away. Are you giving them a story or are you giving them an idea. Are you giving them a whole recipe for making a film how do you see it. Well it depends on the nature of what you're writing if you're writing something for yourself that you haven't been hired to write. You're writing a story that you've come up with yourself or you're adapting a novel so the first thing that you're doing is giving creating a story or laying out a story. The second thing is you're creating a world and the most important thing is and this is the world we live in. I try to give a sense. Of the movie that you would be seeing if you gave me 10 million dollars or fifty million dollars and I try to put that on the page so when people read my screenplay they're not just it's not like you're reading a short story or novel. You should feel the cuts and the action and the

actors and the music and it should all be there on the page. Now after that happens you turn the screenplay over to someone who either buys it from you or hired you to write it in the first place. And then the question is from there to the screen what happens how much of what you write and this is all just as all of you how much of what's in the screenplay ends up on the screen. Well again it depends on the process. If you're if you've written it for yourself you would give it to your agent if you had an agent or you would try to get an agent if you hadn't. And if you didn't have an agent and there they would try to get into hand the hands of people that they think would respond to this material from there. If you're involved with producers or a director or studio there might be some kind of input. Based on budgetary considerations marketing considerations my wife as an actress can you write a part for her that all depends who the people that you're working with Melinda and Steve let me turn to you as director and producer. When you're looking at a screenplay what are you looking for you looking. Do you look at it as here's Or here's a

recipe here's a film I could make or do you look for well here's a little thing I can take a leave the rest behind and add my own stuff or what is your experience with that. My experience so far is that I definitely look at the big picture is first of all is the story interesting. The second thing I'm really interested in is the structure you know how does the structure hold up because I'm a great believer in improvisation. I've spent as Chicago is an improvisation town so I spent four or five years working in that and I've seen wonderful things be created so I hope I'm not the the bane of all writers but what I what I like to do is I consider it a starting point and a well-written script will hold up the structure will hold up Loretta tag becoming blonde and I have to say. We did improvise dialogue within the scenes but her structure was beautiful and it held up. What do you look at look at that as an example on becoming law and that's it. Tell us a little bit about what it's about and what was in the screenplay and what would you see if you went to see the film. Yeah OK. Becoming blond is this 15 minutes short

about a woman who's just going through her day to day life and one day for no no particular reason her hair just starts to turn blonde. And the stories about how that changes her life and it doesn't necessarily change her life for the better. So that's the basic story. And it was a wonderful story. And on the written page there was no direction. It was pretty much this is what happens. So I read it and I thought it was wonderful I thought this is just fun and charming and. And Loretta was a great writer to work with because she let me take a lot of liberties with it. What I ended up deciding to do is we shot the film and you never see the main character. You actually never get to see her because the film isn't really about her the film is about how people's responses to you change how you feel about yourself and that changes how you act. And so she kind of went from being pretty together person to being. This is making some bad decisions because she was worried now about what people thought about her. And so and I did talk to Loretta about it I said this is my idea for how I would do this and she said Great

go with it. And then once we had that we cast actors and we cast some wonderful actors Laura craft will emerge EKU Stephanie Ware just Christiane whistles some great people and then I just put them in a room and I said here's the scene improvise. So it was the script was it just was it a story was it dialogue. You said it had no direction what I mean by that it didn't say what Yessiree or day exactly you know it did it came from a short story originally that was really very rich and he really got into the mindset of the character. The screenplay was much to get your sort of how to scenes written out. And it did you know in proper screen form it did do that but it didn't it didn't have any suggestion of you never see her and it didn't have suggestions of where the camera would go it didn't have what they was just talking about it didn't have those suggestions in it which for me was fine since I had the short story to work with. And I also had Loretta available to talk about it and say what kind of what were you thinking about. And then I found that turning the actors loose with it was wonderful. I mean they got the characters and they came up with

wonderful material but it was all within the parameter of what was on the page. I don't think we ever really went to the page very much. So I would say that that was a very well written piece because we didn't have to do that you know and I'm as I move forwards I imagine and Steve can probably talk about this a lot. There will be times when it's not on the page. There's an idea there but you've got to go off the page to get to it. So but he in this case that you're becoming beyond your own additions and the other collaborators additions to the screenplay were some dialogue of visual style including not showing the main character working from a base of this story and the structure that that script had. STEVE JONES How does that square with your experience you've produced or been involved with several films. 6 right you're on mic no 6 but just with John McDonnell the one with a young lady named Tanya Wexler who directed a picture called Finding north. We sort of had almost every home

has a million experiences but every kind of experience as far as writers go and as far as we originated and reports of a serial killer ourselves we've been for example we got the script to Mad Dog and glory from Martin Scorsese. And that screenplay we agreed to film word for word literally word for word. We made an agreement with the actors with DeNiro and Bill Marine with Armand that we were going to do exactly what was on the page in terms of dialogue or also in terms of direction in terms of everything well done direction. You know it's so subjective. Even if somebody says you know this character is walking in the door what does that mean. You know exactly there's a doorway to the giant doorway to just see him you see the door open I mean that at that point it's objective and it becomes anybody's guess in a lot of ways. But as far as dialogue goes that picture was done word for word. We've just finished wild things which first came in as a script by a guy named Steven

Peters in the story structure remained the same but almost everything else about the picture has changed. We had another writer come on who did what. I mean we could call it a polish or call him a script doctor but he rewrote the thing. He's a writer who's worked with us in the past. We've also because of John's method in my method we've been able to have the writer stay onboard through rehearsals. We had a normal life we had Bob Snyder and pick Hal or stay with us sit in on the rehearsals so they could watch the actors a lot of times the actors say these words will not come out of my mouth the way you have written here they just won't they don't feel right for my character or I just can't speak them. The great thing is to have the writer there let the writer reinterpret as opposed to bringing in a stranger or sometimes even have a director or having their actor rewrite it if you have the luxury of having the writer with you which seldom happens when and many might not consider a

luxury. Well well you have to you know forge a relationship with the writer the trust to where they trust you to say look we need to change this. And you trust them to change in a way that will work for you. You mention that in wild things you had you brought someone in to rewrite the script or work on a script what was it about the original screenplay that you liked what were you taking. The. The basic setup of the story in the twists and turns that the plot takes in the little device at the end which reveals what really happened in the movie were those things were very unique. Beyond that we needed our own take and John's take on the material which was a little deeper and a little less. It is just different from what was on the page when we first got the screenplay. The picture would not have been made. I shouldn't. I don't believe the picture would have been made in its original form if the deal was that John would supervise another writer to rewrite it if they liked.

The rewrite. Then we would go ahead. That's it's fairly standard deal for scripts that don't get made immediately. They bounce around and if they find a director who says I can make this work then the studio says well who's who would you like to have rewrite it. And you take it from there. Now Dave Steve paints a fairly positive and elaborate picture of the relationship between director and writer has that been your experience. I think what what motivated and they're both talking about very positive collaboration there that's where you have something that's been written and what we writers do is create a world and then. You have to translate that world into a something that can actually be filmed. My favorite example of there's a line from Jacob's Ladder where he goes to hell or some director who will well you know me and if you work with the writer you can actually make that concrete. Also there's the idea that the director is the one directing so he or she has to get their head into this material in a way that makes sense. And as much as they're

talking about the involving the writer talking to the writer that's great There's other examples where the collaboration is not so positive. I found that there's a jealousy about writers that exist specially executives sometimes directors are envious of these people who can create this thing from nothing and they want to they want to do whatever they can to say I did this. I the director of the studio executive is again this is the worst case scenario and I'm going to change the dialogue just to change it I'm going to change the story I'm going to bring in some other writer because this writer's no good and I've I've experienced both one of. Produce the earth. Who really understand what I'm trying to do my work is very we can talk about is very difficult and dark and they're trying to get me to do more of what I'm doing or commit lighten it up or something and then they have to be ending all the night I had one and one person has to one of my scripts that was like I have your script up on the bulletin board. I see it takes place

in three days I'm trying to get it to take place in two days anyway. How is this. You know again as a writer if you're if you're trying to get to some truth and we're going to do that together great let's change it and again if you're working with great actors Let's get have them change the dialogue for all like on the same page but if you're just changing it just to change it not even for financial reasons just that it really it's it's like a knife in the air. I've heart I've had friends who are well numerous cases I've had friends who were came down to the set for the on the picture that they wrote. And had security take them away then we could be seen on the set again. I had a friend removed from the set of a picture that won Academy Award he wrote it. They threw him off the that before they started filming the director did not want to be threatened by the writer getting in the way. That's not uncommon either. I think it just depends like I said we've been you know and you I mean I myself we've been fortunate in being put in a position of being allowed to have the writer with us and taking writers who we get along with and we have a

shared vision. I think there's. Truth to that though the need to only. THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE director ultimately. And we were sort of talking about that a little earlier that if if if more than one voice is trying to say what's going to happen you get the sort of committee designed thing and I can't. But to me I just don't believe that can ever work. I would think as a writer it takes a great deal of trust then to say here's what I did. I'm going to I think the writer is in a position for better or for worse that it has to be turned over. You have to turn it over unless you want to direct it yourself you've got to turn it over to somebody else. And the hope is that there's continued dialogue. You know my experience thus far has been there is a continued dialogue with the writer as we're going forwards but I've heard all kinds of stories where. You know as you just said the writer gets thrown off. But I think some writers set themselves writers for this all right because they don't let the process unfold and I think that there has to be a recognition that there are a

lot of people. It takes a lot of people to make a film. It takes a gaffer a cinematographer an editor a director a great producer It takes all of these people and all of them have some form of input where the cameramen ultimately you know a truly great DP is going to set the camera and there's going to be little details there that are gorgeous that maybe people don't even see to later but if that cinematographer understands the story he'll bring a whole new level to it you know and then the editor you hand all this material to an editor and how many times that we heard stories about a script that didn't work oh my god it's a disaster. A good editor gets it in their hands and suddenly you have a viable and wonderful film you know. And so so I really. It's an act of faith. If you're going to be a writer it's difficult but at some point you gotta let it go. Absolutely. You wonder why you've had the experience of making films that you wrote and now making a film that somebody else wrote. Can you talk a little bit about the difference I mean when you're writing your own film do you start with the writing or do you start thinking you start thinking as a writer and you start thinking as a director

as for me I've always been a visual first. What. Because I this is a visual medium. Ultimately it comes down to it's an expression of images. It's not an expression of words. So for me personally I have to I have to see it. I have to see what the scene looks like I have to sort of feel who these people are and then once I sort of have a hold of my character or this person then I can start making them talk and making them do things. That's how I do it. But I'm sure other there are many many starting points and I didn't mean it's it's definitely a form of dialogue so I didn't want my to be mis interpreted that when I say it's not a form of words that certainly doesn't mean it's not a form of dialogue obviously. So but the key is is. Having to see it and I think that we're again in agreement that what I tell my students and I tell myself is that you can write all these words but the goal is when someone reads the words are they imagining a movie can they.

When and when you see it do they mean do they hear the dialogue or they see the actors that they see those great action scenes. If they just see the words and it feels like a novel or short story then the producer or the director is going to like you know it's interesting but I just don't see it. So that's I think if you have if your dialogue is incredibly well-written that can go a long way in creating images as well I don't know that necessarily. I've seen some screenplays that were almost strictly dialogue and at the end of it you said this was great and and but if it spurs you into creating the images in the places and the situations that make this dialogue work because you fall in love with the characters I think there is that you know there is value to that I've seen the reverse with the dialogue. You look at the screenplay and you I really want to make this picture but we're going to start with all new dialogue because it's not building the characters for me. You know there's. Again it's a it's a medium where there's a lot of different ways to get to the final result. You have varying degrees of collaboration that are forced upon you as as a director as a writer a writer

first and foremost as can go from as we said no say at all to having a lot of say in the in the process. The director can go from having every last word except for final cut which almost no one in the business has to being shoved off the project and having somebody else finish his work or her work for them. So it's every situation is different but it's a collaboration. I'm struck by I'm remembering a comment that I heard in an interview on this fine radio station last year here I think Terry Levin was interviewing Peter Greenaway an extremely rigid pompous man. Mind so maker he said some interesting things he said in a disdainful contemptuous way. You know he said that in his opinion we have had no cinema. All we have had is illustrated text suggesting that perhaps one ought to begin a movie without a screenplay. What do you think about that idea do you think in your experience Dave now you

disagree. What do you think that could be possible to start without a screenplay I mean or even go through a process that didn't involve a screenplay. I do I absolutely do. One of the experiences I had on Ruth's journey and I would not recommend doing it this way but I had shot a lot of footage and I didn't know what the script was going to be. And it was it was an experimental film. That's that was OK to do it that way so we we shot we had it all and we edited all the visuals first. There was no script. And I would show this this 30 minute program to people and they all got the story. They all knew exactly what was going on. So from that point on when I added the words the script to it the point was OK we already have the story. How can I elevate that how can I make things more ironic or more how can I really bring out you know fine details. In that case it worked. And then I would say I've seen restored and I would say that that's a particularly interesting case because what you're seeing is really in direct contrast to what you're hearing to to the

narration that you're hearing because you're hearing this description of a woman who you know filled her house with with antiques and things that she bought. Well you're seeing the empty house and you're seeing the house come apart and it starts out looking like it's going to be a documentary about collecting antiques. You have to walk where are the ends meet. My collection and then finally you sort of go oh OK maybe I'm following it now but I can definitely see how that would have come about visually as opposed to from text or from dialogue but Steve what do you think about that like you know I think you have to start from a screenplay. You know I think it's sort of if it brings in the whole question of commercial ality and who's funding your picture and you know you can think about Mike Lee who you know who's done those wonderful pictures which were based essentially on improvisation from scratch as an effect I talked to one of the actors on those pictures who shall remain nameless who said you know he got credit for that screenplay nominated for Academy Award. But those are all my lines everything I said were my lines how dare this guy take that credit you know. It's there's a point where somebody has paid money to do your

project. And if you can't show them what the project is you're going to have a difficult time getting started. So to say well I'm going to improvise this entire story that requires an and credible amount of trust from whoever is putting the money up. And from the from the Marketplace I mean it's strictly a produce Auriol statement. I think we'd all love to work in a vacuum where we could do whatever we wanted. That for example Henry was within the parameters of the money we were given they left us completely longer they had no idea what we were doing and they had no idea when we were finished that it was any good. I know that that's sort of a vacuum I've been in once we were able to do whatever we wanted within the financial parameters so I can see the appeal to that and the other and I've you know just completed a picture that cost 30 million dollars. The studio had certain requirements which you could say there. You can either say they're putting this chain rope around my neck that's just keeping me from doing exactly what I want to you can say I need to collaborate with these guys. So that's still something that

might you know the director has seen fit to translate into his own vision. But they have parameters they need certain things. We've gotten in almost all of our pictures. Some good ideas from the from the studio or from the people who are closer to the money. And we've got some incredibly awful ideas from them as well. You have to be able to discern what you can use. Some vendors very helpful they say gee Joe you know that's a swell idea and we're going to go film that an ad that maybe doesn't make it to the final product. If it's something you really believe in I you know I was thinking about this program on the way over and sometimes a writer has to say well look you know I'm sorry but this is you're heading off in this direction and I just can't tolerate. Sometimes the writer has to

say yeah let me see if I can make it work that way. I know a gentleman who's made a fortune writing screenplays and they've never been produced. You know as he sits at the table with the executives and they say well you know we're thinking maybe it should be. We know we said it in Miami but we're thinking of Idaho. He writes I don't know. He's made literally he had three $400000 a screenplay is probably done over the last 10 years 20 or 30 of them never been produced. He's he's a great collaborator. But there's there's nothing to be film when he's done because it's every single person has input and he takes it all. There that's something that's a it's a it's a living but it's from a creative standpoint it's you know it's a tar pit you know. Let's take a quick break to do some business. And when we come back we'll continue this conversation about screenwriting and also take your calls our number Here's 3 1 2 8 3 2 3 1 2 4 8 3 2 3 1 2 4. Let me take

care of a little business actually before we go to break. If there are any budding screenwriters out there who might be interested in learning more about how to do this just go organization called Soon a story is having an annual their third annual Scripps sessions weekend. And that takes place next week and Steve Jones will be running one of the sessions there as will Dave. And if you're interested in that in call 3 2 2 9 0 6 0. Our guests today are Dave screenwriter and assistant professor of screenwriting in the department of radio TV and film at Northwestern. Steve Jones producer of such films as Henry Portrait of a serial killer. Mad Dog and glory and the newly out just today wild things and Melinda roundish who is an independent director and writer here in Chicago whose credits include Ruth's journey and on becoming blonde. We'll keep talking when we come back I'm Gretchen health but you're listening to Odyssey and this is WBEZ Chicago. Support for programming on WBEZ is provided by the Old Town School of Folk Music presenting an evening with Saturday March 21st at 8 p.m. of Tabor The Denver

Post says simply an astonishingly impressive singer artist remarkable to get information is available by calling the Old Town School of Folk Music at 7 7 3 5 2 5 77 93 Chicago Matters kicks off its 1998 series our region our community with a special live event. Join us Tuesday March 30 first at the Court Theatre at 7:30 belonging a program of live dramatic readings written by local authors. For tickets call 7 7 3 7 5 3 40 for 72. Hours this. Saturday morning at 11 o'clock. This is WBEZ Chicago ninety one point five FM. I'm Gretchen Helfrich and it's

film form day and we're talking about screenwriting and the screenplay and its relationship to the film we're talking with Melinda run ish. Steve Jones and Dave Tilton Skee are numbers 3 1 2 8 3 2 3 1 2 4 If you'd like to give us a call and ask a question or make a comment. Dave you want to talk a little bit about how the role of the screenwriter within the industry the big let's call the bit is how you've seen that change. Well there's there's two sides to that. I think if you look at the seven and I'm always interested in why were so many dark or personal films made in the 70s versus the kind of films that were made in the 80s. And I think it's in the 70s. I heard George Lucas say this you go did the vice president the president the company and say you want to do this screenplay and they look at and say Now I go Yeah what happened in the 80s is this corporate structure was created where this the this whole group of people was hired to do what's called development. And what that means is you come in with a screenplay and then five or six or seven or eight people have to say oh that's

pretty good. We might want to do it but make these changes or make those changes are we have this story idea why don't you work on it OK now we'll have you work on it and by the end you have what. There was talk of a committee structure and the kinds of films they get made. Turned out to be less personal Also you have. The other idea about this is that there's a difference the way that the screenwriter is perceived and the playwright and we haven't talked about that at all that in the world of plays and I'm not part of that world that my understanding is the writer is everything the director is there to bring the words to life what happens in the world of films is again you have this group of people that is trying to put their input into it and to write the screenplay so eventually this one person who created it is forgotten there or they want to forget this person and also I'm intrigued that in a few years ago the standard length of time to write a screenplay was 12 weeks. I was given six weeks for this last screenplay and

all I can think is this an economic thing or is this a self-perpetuating system where you only give him six weeks and then it's not that good and then we'll get some other person to do it so we can i don't know if anyone's interest. This is the Weiner. I mean what I want to know I thought I'd already experienced your heart crying out loud. Yeah I know you see it just as if some guy they gave a million dollars and one I think he got less than a month I think you know like three weeks to come up with Scream 2. Right because they had to get it made so they were just like we'll throw a million bucks get to work you know. Right. It's an awful situation except for the money. Well but Barbara too I heard Barbara Turner wrote Georgia say it takes two weeks to write a screenplay it's the thinking that dreaming if you really know what you're writing it's two weeks or a week or Sex Lies and Videotape was written in eight days. Right. Do you agree with that. I do think a lot of the work gets done before you write it. I think it's all the writing I heard Harold Raima say the same thing just because you're not at your computer doesn't mean you're not writing it might take eight days to actually type out 100

pages but the coming up of the story the structure of the world the how am I going to represent that world on the page that can take you know months. Well our number here is 3 1 2 8 3 2 3 1 2 4 3 1 2 8 3 2 3 1 2 4. Let's talk to Mike. Good morning Mike good morning. This is kind of an opportune time to talk to you about this problem I'm having with. I wrote a I wrote a book based on a screenplay that I had written and which found that it was easier to get a book published then to get to screenplay even seen and as a result now there's an interest in me converting the book and into a screenplay again. And in lieu of all of this hubbub about instead I'm a little concerned about the legalities and what you know has that been resolved and you know if you can give me any advice on you know how to handle this thing.

You mean because you've written because someone has rights to the book I have the right stimuli and the book right. And you wrote the book yourself. Yes. Then if you tell your stories and all your material Well it's based on history it's not it's a not fit. The book and I was told actually I was the director that I had approached originally told me Well now that you've made it public record it you know it says you really can't copyright or you cannot enforce the copyright on that because now it you know it's known to the public and we can go I could just go ahead said I looked up all of that stuff myself. Any thoughts. Well I think you had this experience. I think that that's sort of a question for an attorney more than anything else because Story rights get very very complicated if you write about people who are alive a lot of film studios will immediately ask Flora you know some kind of a deal to be made with the people who are living we are forced to change normal life which is a true story about the Eriksson's the bank

robbers in Chicago we are forced to change a few scenes because we mention the fact that one of the characters had a mother which I found pretty unusual but the lawyers from New Line said look if you mention the mother she's going to sue us and we're not going to let you make the picture. So I really do believe you have to go find a good attorney to tell you what you own and what you don't and what can be you know what. You know what you can get away with. I actually had a friend who wrote a screenplay loosely based on his own family's story and when they went to try to get produced. Somebody made him go get a release from his own mother. You know to say that he wasn't going to sue. But as far as I understand there is a difference between that and historical event. I mean there is no copyright on the major tides of humanity in our times. So if your piece is about in a store ical event the producer the man you spoke with is absolutely right he can go do research about that event and it's that is public domain that is his you know. Well it's not claiming it is

his it's all of ours it's all living persons because we were part of that. But your specific story if you if you created a story perhaps and you guys can you know tell me if I'm right or wrong if you created a story with that backdrop that story is your story. And he cannot touch your story. But as far as events you know and nations you know if there's a mother we all have mothers you can have a mother character and Steve that was a specific person you should be fine. OK. OK. Thanks for your call Mike. Go ahead Dave you want to say it's not just that the general rule is you can write about famous people. But if it's someone who's not in the public domain that's usually where. You have to get some kind of release is also you bring up an interesting thing that a lot of the times books it's easier to sell a book at interest an interest in a book than a screenplay that there's some kind of legitimacy to to a book to a book. And then that again that's a commercial choice it's also your creative choice I'm not a novelist so I don't write

novels but if you feel comfortable in both. But that also seems like something that sort of comes and goes you know it's a trend to do adaptations of books you know like obviously right now people are doing it all the time. You know it seems like thank you. I mean everybody was writing the great American novel but now everybody's writing the great American screenplay. No kidding. Yeah no kidding. OK let's talk to Dan. Good morning Dan.. Hi this is Dan Dr. Cohen. I'm the director of the Screen Writers Group in Chicago. My dad and I do and I think we have a center that we've built up on the north side of Chicago that operates all year round trying to deal with the issue of not so much script to screen but maybe you could say from couch to script how do you get from the idea to the completed screenplay. And we put a whole lot of energy into that and I work with with Chicago people on all different levels all year I don't do this. I just got a great call last late last night. One of the TV networks is

picked up one of our scripts out of here which was written by. An eighth grade teacher from Chicago public eye for public schools and a terrific success story. Do you want to give out a phone number. Sure. We're at 7 7 3 6 6 5 8 500 6 6 5 8 500 and it's called What's a group called the screenwriters group screenwriters group right. Excellent group. They bring people along in the process of writing screenplays and they have self critiques and they also try to sell your screenplay for you. Well Dan thanks very much for calling. Appreciate that we should also mention again that's in a story is having their scripts sessions weekend next weekend and Steve and David both be participating in that right. And Melinda will too. That's a 3 2 2 9 0 6 0 if you're interested in more information about that that's a 3 1 2 number and that's an excellent excellent weekend. And they've got they have all sorts of sessions about the craft of screenwriting but then there's also a big heavy hitters there. Who knows who knows. Let's talk to John good morning

John. Yes hello I've been involved I've been involved in directly with a writer who wrote a script and it was well received and it received a lot of publicity and option to a producer. The producer took an option that paid him handsomely to get the some changes made some changes that about four or five months on this. Then abandon the option they found another producer and this producer also paid him but the options made changes to edit it change the script and then also withdrew. I know they're involved in a big legal hassle out there who owns the script. You could end the whole thing or just totally throw that as a result of it. Is this song usual or did you comment on the play. I mean I would the first thing I'd say is what was written in the first option and the options generally have a time period if the time period is lapsed. The next guy who

options it gets the next crack at it. Each Green play though as it's produced that screenplay I believe becomes you know is owned by the people who wrote it. You know it's a separate thing from the option if you option a book or have options some other material. So I you know it's hard without seeing the whole case to say well you know this guy's in the right now or this person is. It seemed odd to me though that somebody could. You know pick up the second part of an option and have to worry about what the last guy did. We've had a screen play that John and I commissioned. Universal paid for. We had somebody write the screenplay and then we couldn't afford to pay for the book anymore. A guy came back to us that you know I bought the rights to the book do you still want to be in business because we'll go forward with your screenplay. It's generally simple ownership issues I don't know why there'd be that kind of problem. Dave you know any time there's Well Jack you know what exactly is the issue here are they claiming that they that the first producer still owns it or what exactly is the writer

the producer that writes to it because it's edited. Withdrew from that the writers option. Right my own my understanding is that the first producer would own any screenplay revision that was done while he he or she only option. But that's what's called a dead screenplay because once that producer loses the option they have that screenplay but they can't do anything with it. Along comes the next. Producer options it from the screenplay they create a new draft and again the producer own of the draft so the first producer has really has no claims as far as I can tell but this is a legal issue and yeah again. Well John thanks very much for your call. Our number here is 3 1 2 8 3 2 3 1 2 4 3 1 2 8 3 2 3 1 2 4 If you'd like to ask question or make a comment to give us a call. We're talking today with Melinda filmmaker Steve Jones producer and screenwriter about the process of screenwriting. So

Steve going back to your comment earlier about Mike Lee and his screen credits would you say that it's impossible to know when you're watching a film what the original screenplay looked like. Yeah I would say it's impossible to know I say there's some screenplays you know as I said before that. Our you know realized word for word which is for example Mad Dog glories an example of that. There are other screenplays that you know bear no resemblance to what the writer you know did to begin with there. In general usually it's somewhere in between those two. Melinda Yeah I wanted to ask you Steve do you think in the process where they said You've got to shoot word for word. Did that help you or hinder you. Well it was our own decision because we love we you know it was Richard Richard Price screenplay we absolutely loved the screenplay there was no reason it was like OK well what do you want to change what we don't want so in that case it was so strong that there was no need to. Well from our standpoint there was absolutely no need when we got the picture

finished and it went to the marketing and testing process there was a need arose all of a sudden to rewrite some of it into to us to use changed the motivation of some of the characters. And that need was the studio need right there is that a creative issue that you guys personally had you know there were some things that I could say that you know in retrospect I agreed with as far as changes go there were some things that we felt put upon. Because they were. They wanted something different than we wanted it was an education for us. We wanted to make our statement in the studio said Fine make your statement but we also want to get our 20 million dollars back. That's the issue we're going to always run into. Dave in your experience so far the films you've worked on a girl is in production but that'll be out soon. It needs its Krisna LOC production and Christian air lock will it tries to sell it to a distributor and that needs to still happen but even if it isn't so

they'll probably do some limited distribution so that'll happen next six months. And you've been involved in the production of that film you were an associate producer. How much of that film. Well as it stands now I don't know how close it is to being done but how much of your own screenplay do you see in it. Well of course you know a lot for all I want to talk after this about them. I think the world is intact that I created actually my screenplay as an adaptation of a novel so I've already changed the work of someone else to bring it to. This was a 400 page novel and I picked out 50 pages about a woman in t in Portland who is going to go to Brown but suddenly she gets obsessed with this local rock star forgets all about college and lets him use and abuse her so the world of the teenagers that's intact but the director well for various reasons the financial They didn't have a lot of money they had to change the scenes and set it in Anytown But also I think his vision was somewhat different than mine it's a much

lighter vision and he isn't as abused as it is in my version. It's just seemed like such a nice guy. You know when you're writing stories about abused teenage girls good today I'm not. I'm with you here. What about some of the other films that you've written reflections on a teenage anti-Christ. Last question and of course the untitled teen gothic thriller while going to their functions on teenage anti-Christs that Nick Wechsler option that for all the quirks of the producer did the Rapture and the player and Drugstore Cowboy and he was great he was just like you know out a little bit more dialogue like you've done that's cool or I like the mythology. But then we got involved with someone who wanted to give us money a banker actually and he was like films should teach you something. Could they they be studying a book and let me tell you the stories about these kids who are into heavy metal and Satan worship and one of them thinks that his father may in fact be the devil himself. So it's to me it's hell or Islay funny or horribly dark I

don't know. But this this this banker wanted to fit more into the horror model so that and then I told you about the director on the last crash the last crash is about. This is based on a true life story that Disney actually got the rights to when I wrote the screenplay about these kids in Florida who get frustrated with their lives and their friends and they begin to blame all their problems on one friend and they end up knifing this friend and drowning him and killing him in the most horrible ways and they're also into surfing the surf contest called the last crack. Did you have a particularly disturbed time in high school. Your team well know you get up before you actually read I don't make up anything it's all it is all a translation of my own life in a weird way there was a battle of the Bands contest in high school this is it. The anti-Christ script and mice and my father is a psychiatrist so he's kind of a father figure but obviously it's all translated through some weird writer's filter I don't know and that

changes. Does it do they so than bother you. Yeah do all of them bother you or some you know it's what I said before if if I feel like the people involved are trying to get to some truth or my truth or make it clear or better or if there's a practical concern like we don't have enough money to feel great but if I feel it but if people are just changing it to change it that that bothers arbitrarily arbitrarily. Let's talk to arena arena Good morning. Hello hi. I had a first draft of a screenplay loosely based on something that happened to me and I found a director was kind of interested in it but as you know in directing it. But you said it needed to be you know more tailored to her style of directing and just you know more structured in a narrative straightforward structure and so we worked on it together and she became a co-writer and we came to the structure but of course the story was still my own. And then just recently she said that she didn't think she could handle directing this and

therefore I found a new director and I'm now returning to the old texture and structure of the story but she is still claiming that he is still a co-writer of the story. The difference I'm asking about here is I still believe it is my story and it is our screenplay. And where do the legal rights go here. Can anybody who has read this. Quicker and calmer. Melinda Yeah actually this is not enough. And she's talking about me. We have been working on a piece for about a year and a half and it was it was based on a story that she had had and I read the script a year and a half ago. And I think we both agreed that it was needed a great deal of work. But there were some interesting ideas. So we have been working for about a year and a half on that and have come up with a script that is pretty strong. I've been thinking and I was going to direct this and I've been thinking for the last

my my sort of let's say doubts about my being the best director to do this piece began about six months ago and we actually just discussed this a couple of days ago actually yesterday. We discussed this and I said that I wasn't seeing. And I think this is an interesting thing for us to talk about. I said I had read it and I wasn't seeing the characters in the story the way I should be you know able to do in order to do a good job with the piece. And we sort of left it at that point. And I know that Arianna wants to move forward with this project. There is a screenplay on the table that has a great deal of my work in it. And so what we need to do now is. You know figure out and maybe you guys can give us good input. What what do we do so that we can both go our own ways and remain friends. Because you know it's been a year and a half with somebody and I learn a lot and have a lot of experiences. But what can we do so we can both go our own ways and then I can write right from her original story and I

can go my own way and any ideas that I contributed to this in the last year and a half that I could use those let's say if I. Well I don't know. I don't really have a piece right now that I'm working on but let's say I think of something I want to do a piece about it. I would like to use some of the ideas that I developed last year and a half were just we basically we actually had a discussion this morning right before I came here. What's the best way for us to to go forwards as friends. I've been in this identical situation in writing a screenplay and I haven't brought up with a with a partner and we got to a point where one you know one of us said the screenplay is complete in the other one which was me said you know it's not done yet and we need more work and and we got to a point where the first guy was saying no I'm sending it off to people to be developed and it got very got to a point where things were very ugly. This is a person I've known for 15 years. We finally basically got a

forum and a third party in this case it happened to be a lawyer who was a friend and we sat in his office and we discussed what everybody's problems were and we discussed how we were going to move forward. And I believe that when two people have worked on something for a very long period of time and put a lot of their soul into it you can't just cut the other person off there's just no way there's been too much input from both sides in too much blending of ideas. You have to agree to give something up. Both sides do. But there is a difference both intellectually and legally between the screenplay and the story and you'll often see credits for both. Absolutely that's true. And what they're sounds like they're arguing about is this first person has it has a story and then they have a screenplay that's been developed. I find it almost impossible for the person who has the life story to go back to square one and not have NOT be involving some of Melinda's ideas because they've just been processing them for the last year and a half. I would you know I'm the kind of person who

says you have to. Come to some kind of compromise and you can both get on with it. If you're going to talk about. Well actually we are at the end of a talk show because we're out of time. But I do want to thank everybody who called Raina thanks very much for your call. And I want to thank my guests Melinda independent film director and writer here in Chicago credits include Ruth journey and on becoming blonde Steve Jones producer and screenwriters you just mentioned of such films as Henry Portrait of a serial killer. Mad Dog and glory. And you also mentioned NRA Life which I didn't know about which I like very much. And wild thing which opens this weekend everywhere and screenwriter an assistant professor of screenwriting in the department of radio TV and film at Northwestern University. And don't forget that there's lots of places you can go if you're a screenwriter and want to hone your craft soonish stories having their scripts sessions week and you could talk to Steve you could talk to Dave and you could talk to Melinda next weekend the numbers 3 2 2 9 0 6. And of course Dan called us the screenwriters group on the

north side 7 7 3 6 6 5 8 5 0 0 0 we'll plug that too. That brings us to another to the end of Odyssey which my producer would like to say spreading peace and love around the world. That's a new addition to the program's mission. But my thanks to my producer and director Joshua Andrews and Tuesday morning ask us in very Winograd for engineering and thanks to all my guests thanks very much for coming in today. WORLDVIEW is next. MacDonald this is WBEZ Chicago.