Midday with Sondra Gair

That won't make any moves and assistant coaches until Dallas is done with the Super Bowl on January 30. First Chicago weather for this afternoon cloudy with rain likely towards evening highs in the upper 30s a 60 percent chance of rain. Right now 30 degrees at the lake 31 and Midway 30 officially at O'Hare. I'm John Dempsey. WBEZ news. And this is midday. I'm Sandra gear. Good afternoon everyone. Another U.S. Marine has been wounded in Somalia as some troops continue to head home. Military spokesmen in Mogadishu say Warrant Officer Gus Axelson was shot in the right shoulder overnight while driving in the Somali capital. The spokesman say Axelson was taken to a Swedish Hospital in the city and he's up and around today. He's the fourth marine casualty since U.S. forces landed in Somalia last month. Meantime the U.S. continues its withdrawal from the country more than 500 Marines are returning to Camp Pendleton California today and from Bosnia-Herzegovina it's not clear what's going to happen in Bosnia. Now that the self-proclaimed Bosnian Serb parliament has accepted a plan for peace in the

Republic the llama makers voted 55 to 12 in favor of the plan proposed by international mediators approval. Even though the proposal denies the Serbs the independent state. They insisted upon the Serbs and warned that rejection would soon doom the peace talks and possibly lead to international military intervention. But differences remain over precisely how Bosnia will be divided up and skirmishes are likely to continue until borders are defined and accepted by the Republic Serbs Croats and Muslims. There is no reaction available yet from other groups involved in the peace effort. Well let's go to Dick Longworth senior writer for The Chicago Tribune and discuss all of this. Well Dick let's maybe we should tackle Iraq first which is I guess it's a good way to put an attack on them. First the voices of criticism over coalition efforts are really growing louder and louder. France is getting angry and saying that the United States

has gone too far. French French prime minister Duma is questioning the offensive speaking to a French cabinet member who said that the U.S. overstepped a U.N. mandate. Russia is saying and that's something I want to talk to you about too that the United States stepped over too far what's going on. Well under all this puts President Clinton the new president President Clinton squarely on the spot as far as foreign policy goes park where the borders are even out of it maybe that may be why. Before I let you go on let me start it this way because of Clinton's speech just being over and here amazing it was such a short one what he said that he would do when he what he said in his remarks maybe gives us a clue as to what he is going to do as far as Somalia and Iraq are concerned. A clue but not much of one fortunately or possibly fortunately because it leaves more room for maneuver. George Bush made his

name and fame was being a foreign policy expert but he's left an extraordinarily messy world situation for his successor. We've been talking about two or three of them right here Somalia or Iraq Bosnia-Herzegovina up in the occupation space today. Clinton as you said of his very short speech barely 13 minutes. But even in that brief time he devoted only one brief paragraph barely a sentence to foreign policy. Yes what he said here was pretty Delphic and left let me quote he says when our vital interests are challenged or the will of conscience for the international community to fight we will act with peaceful diplomacy when possible with forceful when necessary. This is fairly ringing stuff but it doesn't give us much of a clue exactly how he's going to deal with this. You know if this is not exactly a clip doctrine I would say but the two

areas that we've been talking about here that really these are the two parts of this first where our national interests are challenged this remains Baghdad where we went in there first and foremost because of the challenge to the oil supplies that the nation needs. Secondly the conference where the conscience of the international community is defied. And this at least for the moment remains Bosnia-Herzegovina. Not many people are claiming that our national interests are directly involved there but Bush and Clinton himself has said that we need to take a stronger viewpoint or a stronger stand to get both these places. Now the new president takes office there is kind of an eerie call in both places. There seems to be a truce in both places but nobody has any real hope that it will. Survive for very long. And as you mentioned

the the the parliament of Bosnian-Serb has agreed to this peace plan. This is a peace plan that was worked out at the Geneva Conference the international mediators led by Lord order Britain and Cyrus Vance of the United States that would split Bosnia-Herzegovina up into 10 provinces as it word loosely gathered under a quite weak central government. Now there were some question or whether the Serbs would even agree to that because it doesn't give them what they wanted was either an independent Serbian state with and what used to be Bosnia or make them part of a greater Serbia B the Bosnian Serbs under considerable international pressure have accepted what seems to be a compromise. This parliament has agreed to have for the fairly one sided vote 55 to 12 and to the outside observer. That would seem to

settle the problem one would hope that the fighting in Bosnia is over. But nobody really believes that's the case. First off the the motion in the parliament included some sort of ill defined request or demand for an eventual right of self-determination. Nobody means that this means that the Serbians are holding. The Serbs are holding out for eventual independence there whether they're holding out for eventual indexation by Serbia itself. You have these 10 provinces which the boundary lines have more or less been drawn. But actually working that out in an area where everybody hates his neighbor where every block every street every house has this political historical and cultural freight attached to it. Nobody really believes that this agreement is going to settle things. At best it might be a step towards a settlement but it does give Bill Clinton some breathing space before he has to decide what to do in

Bosnia as far as Iraq goes. We do now have a cease fire after these three U.S. led air attacks in the past week. In each case Iraq has pulled back as compromised has bowed to the immediate and demands. But again nobody seems to believe that this is the end of Saddam Hussein's defiance of the U.N. resolutions. It again gives Clinton a brief breathing space. But what happens if Saddam Hussein defies the U.N. again. Up until now we've been able to count on a fairly unified coalition on a western nations. But the butt of Russia even of the Arab states to back whatever action the United States won't take as the leader of this U.N. coalition I don't think Clinton can count on this anymore as you mentioned. The French are complaining about the bombing of Baghdad or the rocket attack on Baghdad

or the Russians or the Arabs or the coalition seems to be doing what Saddam Hussein had been trying to do for some time which is to break it apart this United Front is not quite as united as it was and this may end up being George Bush's last and possibly worst president President to Bill Clinton. It's interesting there hasn't been so far as I know too much made out of it. But you know this business of Russia coming out and saying that they're against what we've done. They've been having evidently for weeks now meetings with various Palestinian groups. I guess rather quietly and then came out with the statement that they were against the United States and overreacted in a way we're not doing Fear things. Also France has also been the west European nations been closest to the Arab nations. I assume that they are getting heat from their friends in the Arab world on

this. But the OP's upside is that it does seem to restrict Clinton's freedom to act in Iraq at the next sign of any intransigence from Saddam Hussein. I don't know really how much more we can do of the bombing rocket attacks use of force to enforce either Hussein's compliance unless we're willing to do this entirely on our own without the backing of various allies or the U.N. and I don't think that an area of the clan once you get into very quickly or else by some miracle if Iraq stops provoking and remembering Clinton's remarks the other day about you know probably holding out an olive branch you have Saddam Hussein changes his ways might give within time I'm sure it's not going to happen in a couple of weeks but within time the opening to start that olive branch growing because isn't that true we really need Iraq when it comes to the

future as far as Iran is concerned. We do but I'm not sure how much we can count on their goodwill does not run very deep as far as the Iraqis are concerned towards the United States certainly not to George Bush. Can I read you something that was a an Iraqi government run paper this morning of farewell to George Bush. Yes. The paper said and I quote Please God give me my slow death to make him suffer more because of his crimes. Please God make him blind and crippled. Cut off his hands and make him mute even by the standards of politics today or international relations. They seem to be fairly bitter stuff I think. Bill Bill Clinton inherits a good deal of bad will there. I have to say the very least know and also going back to what France is saying. The trouble is you know here we've got pearled Clinton you know he's getting all of this. But isn't the more important aspect of all this. Russia France whatever other countries are starting to say that we've gone too far. Isn't this possibly going to make

some kind of peculiar split with it with our relationship with Europe and with the United Nations. I mean if this goes any further I would want to take it too far. So I just split to Europe at this stage. It does have long term implications for our leadership of the Western alliance although considering the relative balances balance of power. Clinton does inherit that leadership still. I think it has more direct implications for what we can do as a leader of U.N. alliances which we are trying to do almost everywhere now in Yugoslavia and in Iraq in Somalia. Almost every major actually the work involved in overseas is as part of or as leader of a U.N. sponsored resolution or action. Now so far this has worked pretty well. All this has worked very much in tandem. There has been too many splits. Yes some of

our allies some of those who backed us in the past are beginning to split away from the coalition that is acting in Iraq in the Persian Gulf area. It does I think tend to live with our ability to continue action with the U.N. and other areas that can be fairly serious because we found out we are really not very willing to take on these various actions by our on our own let alone being able to pay for them. And yet Dick have you heard. I know it's a rumor but I did read it saying that there were some U.S. faction were trying to have meetings with different diplomats from the United Nations to see if they could over go over. Boutros Boutros-Ghali his head so that they could make some kind of resolution to make things go faster. Now if that's true of course I don't know. You know I I'm not going to say more than speculation that it's true. But if it were true could they really accomplish that and if

they did wouldn't that really cause some trouble ultimately. Well a word but actually Sadr I haven't heard any of that until it becomes more of a rumor I think we probably better wait certainly Boots's Boutros-Ghali as story backed by laws third world nations whose votes remain very necessary. If anybody's trying to do that too smart I'm going to do if we're still on when I realized when I find the paper I'm going to find exactly where I read that source. OK. But in the meantime how do you feel things are going to be going as soon as Clinton takes over which is obviously tomorrow. What do you think the president is going to happen. What do you think he's going to do first. I have no idea. I think it's his first thing was I think he should be doing is to establish as quickly as possible personal relationships with other leaders around the world get on the phone set up some meetings. I know he has said that a lot of the international work for the foreign policy

depends has to wait has to stay on the backburner until we get our domestic economy more in shape. Actually the two of them go together. We cannot run a good foreign policy without having the kind of economic policy the kind of economy and the economic strength to support it. But at the same time we do as Clinton said in his inaugural address we live in the international economy we live in an international world there is fewer and fewer things that can be said to be really national and under our control. So I think it's Clinton's job to work faster to establish the sort of personal connections ties trust our frequent contacts the bush was so good that a lot of the leaders around the world as we've talked about before are aging a lot of them like peter cole probably will be ground that much longer. But in the meantime it is necessary for start playing these

cards so we can work together particularly with our turkey with the other countries in the G7 the major European nations Canada Japan of course to have the kind of cooperation international rapturous cooperation on international economics on monetary policy that you might need to have a sort of world stability to be able to handle any of the crises that inevitably will come up. Well tomorrow is the day it all begins. And it's good to talk with you. Stand by. Richard Long rich senior writer for The Chicago Tribune is Somalia playing the United States against the United Nations. There are reports that the Somalis top warlord Mohamed Aidid who has evidently prospered from his country's problems has made deals with us is Jack Morgan the associate director of communications for Catholic Relief Services. He

returned this week to the United States after a month long assignment to Somalia. Well it's a simple question but maybe a difficult answer what is going on there. Well it's a country that's been through a devastating drought over the past two years. Obviously ravaged by civil war and civil conflict that's ongoing that that dates back at least to January of 91 the fall of Basra as a result I think at least 200000 Somalis have died from starvation or starvation hunger related problems stress Catholic Relief Services and other relief agencies are in there trying to do a job in terms of bringing food and rehabilitation to the people there. Of course the U.S. military and some multinational troops are there as well and their mission as I understand it is to safeguard the shipment of aid to people

prior to their arrival. It was very difficult to get aid to people. Now since with with increased security we're able to do much more serious than others are trying to help the Somalis rebuild their country. If the west leaves or whoever has been helping the Somalis doesn't go right back again to where it was that's an open question. You know it's just I can't sit here and tell you you know predict the future. My gut feeling is that if the security forces are withdrawn very quickly without any adequate replacement or system set in place to ensure security that there is a strong possibility that you could return to that kind of anarchy that that was going on a few months ago. One of the reasons I say this is that it seems to happen wherever we've tried to help in the past in other

African countries where they've been dry and starvation. But even in a story like this one about the top warlord already making deals with various people I'm not sure. So I'm not going to say for certain who the country is and the leader of the people even they making the deals with. But are these separate deals that are being made really going to keep resolutions from happening. Well it's possible. You know. I can't say exactly what you know. I'm not familiar with this particular story but there have been various factions which are clan related in Somalia. I have a very difficult time uniting or coming up with a plan that will allow for free elections or for the Somalis to determine their own future. And if these kinds of deals are being talked about if the stories are true it doesn't bode well. I don't think for the long

term development prospects for the country. I mean this man Aidid who in any other country would be considered a dictator or the president you want to use a democratic where he is the man who really sets the agenda. The United Nations is pressing the United States to extend their area of control and to disarm the militia. But isn't all this a pipe dream Mr. Morgan. Because of all the stories about all the weapons and then the clans that refuse to give them up. And even in Mogadishu in this big city they still carry guns around and everybody finds stashes. If they look in certain places what really has happened to change. Well the intervention is just one the way we see it. It's one very small step toward a long term redevelopment and rehabilitation process for the country. It's not something that you can just blow in overnight with several thousand troops and then leave and everything's going to be ok again. The

Somalis by and large are very industrious entrepreneurial hard working people that want to rebuild their country but it's kind of like a patient with a serious illness. You know if you withdraw the medicines and support they're likely to relapse and and our feeling is that Somalia needs a long term commitment from the international community and you know it's got to be based on on the situation as it evolves the security situation is not something that that is just going to disappear overnight it's obviously there's a lot of there's still a lot of weapons there and we need to continue I think to work on the security situation. And we also need doctors with good credit. Credits create credibility. If you don't mind my staying with this Mr. Aidid for a while. Who does he exert his control. Is it

because of the weapons that he has. Are people afraid of him. Is that why the people are afraid to rise up and do anything. Does he ever do anything for them. Well I did. He was one of the main leaders clan leaders who was involved in the over throw he. So it goes back to that he he helped organize clan based militias to oppose the Barak government. In the course of doing that they acquired arms from the old regime and from various other sources. So now they have. He has not. Probably not extremely professionally trained troops by maybe Western standards but he has a force that he controls he doesn't control every single one of his troops but they are well armed and they are willing and able to do a lot of damage. So they are not for their own people either. I think it's a question of power growing out of

a gun and Aidid has his agenda which may or may not coincide with the humanitarian goals of foreign relief agencies or many Somalis and there's so much criticism of the United Nations in this. I mean I'm not going to talk about the United States going in. You know and well now we're finally trying to come out and hopefully all of our men will be coming out soon. But Boutros Boutros-Ghali the head of the U.N.. Is he able and knowledgeable enough. I realize he doesn't act on his own but he is the leader of the U.N. to deal with all of this short of bombardment. But you do and actually I hear you now on the military thinking out a military force. Well I like to give Boutros Boutros-Ghali the benefit of the doubt and that he's new. He obviously saw the tragedy that was occurring in Somalia and he reacted forcefully to that and I think our

agency and other non-government organizations respect him for having demonstrated some leadership in that capacity. And again to be fair to Boutros-Ghali he he doesn't have the authority to go to the U.N. as an institution is sort of grappling with a process of change in which its agenda keeps growing. Its budget is limited its support from the Security Council for these actions is ambiguous. I mean everybody wants the problems solved but no one's willing to do you have you have difficulty reaching a consensus on how to operate and what what kind of risks are worth taking. This is what they were saying before Boutros Boutros-Ghali took over that the one thing that they needed in a leader of the United Nations was a man who really with great strength of character and grit and great strength of politics of a political

man who knew how to use force properly. Is Mr. Ghaly do you think. Unfortunately not the man and not blaming him because he is a good man but who in the world is going to be able to take over the United Nations and get all those countries together and finally do make some resolutions. Is there any hope or do people feel very discouraged. Well obviously there's always hope. I think the jury's still out on Boutros Boutros-Ghali I think he's a strong leader. I think he's he's well positioned. And the fact that he is an Egyptian and he's from the third world he has credibility with the third world absolutely and he understands the problems. I'm not sure one individual alone can is necessarily capable of making the changes. I think he's made progress. There's a long way to go. I'm not sure. You know I don't think there's a silver bullet you know or a person a George Washington or somebody who could come in and make the U.N. a perfect institution like Somalia. The

U.N. is is grappling with change and there's going to be a lot of work to be done in order to advance its agenda to achieve the successes that we're hoping for. And I believe the biggest grapple for change is to really set itself up as the mediator for the world. Finally as a core for being able to settle for peace when there is war. Five hundred and fifty six Americans and I believe that with the amount left Somalia what happens now now that most some of the Americans have left what is going to happen. Well that's again it's an open question. You know it's multinational forces come in there's some talk of Australians say taking over at the airport and by DOE we're we're doing our work there. We're feeding 110000 people. It's an effective multinational force comes in and is willing and has the capability of doing the job then I think the security situation can be maintained. The Americans have

always said at the beginning that that only the United States for good or ill had the logistical capability to move people in and to arrest the situation to stop the rapid deterioration that was happening this fall. Whether or not a multinational force can come in now and sort of continue the job and expand on it I'm not sure. It's just it's very difficult to say it for some time. Organizations like yours like yours Catholic Relief Services and care and other you know emergency aid groups were taking their people out of Somalia for a while because they were afraid it was too dangerous for them for their organizations. Is there such a feeling you know. Well I'm proud to say that our staff took a lot of risks and we did not withdraw. We never stopped delivering food even at the worst. I mean there was at one point where dispatches were coming over and you know

guns were being fired people were awakened in the middle of the night and see us took a stand we said we're not going to be intimidated by these people will hire more guards will hire as many guards as we have to but we're not going to leave. We are committed to Somalia and we are not going to be intimidated by these people. Yes there are risks to relief workers. There have been a couple of incidents already. Again you know our security the security situation is such that yes if troops are withdrawn and security deteriorates the staff of expatriate staff and the local staff of non-government organizations would be more so. So much at risk and if it if it deteriorates to the point where we can't do the job then yes even see us withdraw. There's were reports that U.S. diplomats are evidently trying to bypass suicide and speed up the United Nations role

authorizing peacekeeping force. Now if this happened and this is something that made much mention and it's a very big step I think to try to bypass them. I'm not sure whether they can lead or not or else maybe they can or they would try it. But what trouble could this be. Well if you do if the United Nations United Nations becomes a divided House obviously you're going to have dissension. I think it a danger in this game is that the United States and other Western countries perhaps even Soviet Union former Soviet Union have to avoid being viewed as doing a neo colonialist Empire enterprise in Somalia. That is a danger that we need to avoid. This is what people have been saying all along as to why Somalia was chosen other than other than other African nations because it didn't have an infrastructure where it could really be taken over as a colonial point.

Well that may or may not be true. I think the emergency situation certainly was was a motivator. I mean to be honest I think the media drives it to a large extent. I mean when you see the images of starving people I mean it's one thing to turn away from words you know or stories you hear about it. But when you see the images when you look at a Somali man or woman who's tracked 12 miles from the countryside to get to one in one of our feeding centers for example you look at that person and say well you know it really be better off in geopolitical terms if we just allow several million Somalis to die and then just sort of let them sort themselves out. People can't do that when when they look at when they look at the person in the blood when they see it they have to act. During 1933 30 1993. It's interesting that I said There you go. Some people say that what's happening in this world is bringing us back to the 1933.

You know before the first world before the Second World War what you see or as planned is apply how many people you'll be able to buy food and other things with I think they were worried about. I believe 120000 now and we do drive distributions of sorghum in about 11 villages around by southwest of that of that city it's in the southwest part of the country. We're rapidly expanding that program in 1993. The total value of our program is going to be about 35 million dollars and we're looking to nearly quadruple the number of people that we're hoping to get. About 400000 people bringing food to them. I want to thank you very much Mr. Morgan for being with us. Our guest Jack Martin who is the associate director of the occasion for Catholic Relief Services and he returned this week to the United States to be in Somalia. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me.

As the skirmishes and murders continue in Somalia other regions are getting very restless. The future serious trouble spots are perhaps Sudan along with Iran and Sudan they may be the next trouble spot in Africa. The United States and the U.N. in the Mideast in the West a most serious future. With us is a man who has been on with us over the years. Father Bill knife of Mary Snow whose assignment has been in the Sudan. He's here in the United States for just about a month waiting for a visa to get back to the Sudan. But I'm going to ask you Bill to go over some things that have been happening and give us kind of a rundown retrospect on what's been happening in the last three and a half years yet example Omar al-Bashir in his government. He's been in power for three and a half years. What. Tell us how he came into power and what he's been doing. He led the fundamentalist Islamic coup in June of 1989 and it was the military one group of the military

who took over the government and very quickly they moved to establish an Islamic structure in the country a fundamentalist Islamic structure with the Sharia law and they the Muslim Brothers now control all of the banking and the the whole the structures of the government at the moment. So that's three and a half years but during that time they have been withholding food from the Southern people the displaced people the refugees they have been solidifying their control over all aspects of the country. And as far as I'm concerned they have been persecuting the Christian population of the Sudan. Now when you say that in persecuting the Christians they've been closing churches with us and they've been doing. They've been closing churches and imprisoning the person of the church the priest and the lay leaders. They've been seizing property expelling missionaries. But the main thing they've been forbidding the Christian assembly for prayer and worship.

So it's what happens if they get a group of people or even individuals they turn them into jail. That's right. But usually the leaders go after the priest and the lay leaders first of all. And of course we foreigners we foreign missionaries we they go after us through our passport our immigration status. Why not tell us about your situation. You apply for your travel in April of 1992 and I I was supposed to go to Nairobi and to New York for meetings and I handed in my passport and that's it they took it. They withheld my passport for seven and a half months and sat on it. And what they were wanting me to do was to beg for an exit permit to leave the country without the right to return. And I just said it out. I don't know why I just waited. And what happened. The world community really came to my help. The commitment the combined condemnations of the Sudan by the U.S. Senate resolution the U.N. General Assembly the European community ambassadors the Vatican

all of that hit the Sudan very hard and they knew they had to clean up their image. Yes go ahead. So as a result they started becoming nice to us and treating me fairly and I got all my papers back and I'm allowed to go out and come back in again. But the thing that really made the difference was the projected visit of Pope John Paul to to Khartoum on the 10th of February this year. So that is what they wanted to clean up their image in that way. They want him to come in the worst possible way. Is he going to go. He's going it's definite now it's just coming out in the world press. I've seen a couple of stories on it now. But Bill why is it there so anti-Christian Why did they want him. Well I think it's because these fundamentalists they don't want anything except the Islamic propaganda to reach all the people in the country. They are out to spread Islam in Kenya and Central African Republic everywhere and to overthrow the government of Egypt and put in the same

kind of government that we have in Khartoum. Let's let's talk about Sudan and they're great friends they got friends that we know that friends that we don't need. That's right. That's Saddam Hussein. It used to be. Well what about him now. Well he's the old friend who no longer can do anything for them. As you know white and simply want more and smart Gadhafi and Libya he can no longer help them either because of his sanctions. So what they've done has got they've gone over to gotten the country that we are really worried about and that's Iran. They've gone over to what the newspapers and the magazines are calling now the public enemy number one Iran and Iran is involved in exporting Islamic terrorism and fundamentalist overthrow and the Sudan is being used as its tool. They are training. Sudan is 12 or so training camps around Khartoum and the Iranians are paying for it Iranian agents are doing the training and they're sending their agents up into Egypt

to destroy the tourist industry they're in Tunisia they're in Algeria. They're after the Arab Emirates and more recently they're after Saudi Arabia. So what. And it's a money oil. And what about the Chinese arms. Oh yeah. Well the Chinese arms are what they're paid for by Iran and the government of Khartoum is using them against the rebels in the South Sudan People's Liberation Army. So that Sudan is really becoming like what. Lebanon is to Syria their proxy very much it has now become the center for Islamic terrorism. You have Iranians Pakistanis Afghanistani and Abu Nidal Palestinians operating directly out of the Sudan. Are they responsible to these people who were being trained in Sudan either Sudanese or people who are being trained there for murdering so many people in Egypt's tourist trade. Yes but I also believe that there are Egyptians who have been given Sudanese passports to come to the Sudan and train there and then go back again. I are going about it to

remind them. Yeah. You're talking about the extreme fundamentalists they're the ones who are doing the attacks on the foreign tourists in Upper Egypt around looks. Yes those are Egyptians who have been trained in the Sudan who came to the Sudan originally on a Sudanese passport which was issued by the Sudan embassy in Cairo. What about what about Lebanon. Lebanon. I don't think there's any connection with Lebanon and the Sudan at the moment. I haven't heard of anything. Lebanon seems to be quiet at least from our point of view. The connections are not there. The connections are with Iran mainly at the moment. And as far as the territory of the occupied territories is there any connection with the Gaza Strip or Hamas nothing. The only connection that I can see with that part of the world and the Sudan is that part of the Sudan People's Liberation Army funding is coming from Israel and from Saudi Arabia and from South Africa.

Those are the friends of the rebels that are trying to put down the Khartoum regime at the moment. There has sent me something really I had missed my show an article by Charles Krauthammer. It really threw me. I mean I'm not surprised the jury is having a lot of I mean I know they're having a lot of trouble but he says that a jury is expected to fall within ear. Well it might because the same thing could happen to Egypt just as easily. All of these countries have a large Islamic population a good Islamic populous devout religious people and all of these governments are not doing a good job with poverty with development with housing with feeding. And as a result the fundamentalist are able to capture the hearts of the dissatisfied the dissenters and pull them into a political organization which is anti-government. So the same thing in Tunisia and Algeria and Egypt. But now it's even Saudi Arabia

they're after the royal family and the structure of government in that country. When you go back to the Sudan how are you going how safe are you going to be. Well from my experience of this past year the American Embassy and the state department are wonderful. They monitor all of us very carefully and if need be they put men to help us but I don't think there's any danger to us who are foreign citizens that the danger is to the Sudanese and especially the Sudanese Christians. And as far as I can tell it's the Iranian and the Sudanese officials say that nothing that's going on is there for not doing anything to spread any of the any of the murders or the training or the passing on of extremism. You're right there literally isn't even the great ideologue of the regime has a Torabi who travels all over Europe and North America telling that there is nothing but peace and freedom of religion et cetera. And it's all lies. He knows

that. But for some reason he's able to present that one facade to the west and then when he's back home he is right in charge of what's going on all of the terrorism. Tell us again I know you sort of broached it but I understand there are about a dozen Sudanese training camps that are funded by Iran and directed by Iranian agents. That's right in in the Sudan. Tell us about their right in and around the capital. They're close to the capital and to the airport to go in and out of the country easily they're lucky. The city of Khartoum is broken up into three sections. The two biggest are Khartoum north and undermine and just outside of undermind in the desert there are these training camps which are run by Iranians and Pakistani and Afghanistani agents and they are bringing in the trainees from Egypt especially and probably from Tunisia and Algeria as well. They put them through this training course which is a lot of propaganda a lot of brainwashing but also explosives and

armaments and military know how do you think that that the combination of the Iran is stronger you know there's no doubt about that. But the combination of Iran and Sudan are going to be the biggest headache for us for the West. I'm absolutely certain because already the journalists are talking about why are we not making Iraq strong in order to put Iraq against Iran and get rid of our real enemy. Well maybe Clinton might change turn and turn things around. Well that's being that I would say it is a pleasure to talk with you again. And do you think we maybe we could reach you in the Sudan when you when you're there the phones are really bad. Oh but we couldn't. Well let's try. All right. And in the meantime it's good to talk with I'll stay in touch with you on the plane. Bye bye. And that was Father Bill Nye of Mary Snow. Aides to the president elect say while he is no longer the president elect he as the president says that the U.S. will not ease demands on Iraq under the Clinton administration. He aides

say the new administration is going to continue to press Saddam Hussein to obey all U.N. resolutions including those that call for him to give open access to weapons inspectors. Let's go to Dan Brumberg a senior fellow at the Carter Institute in Atlanta. Dan what should we believe at this point that the situation between Iraq and the rest of the world. Well I think that it's interesting. The most interesting thing that we learned this week is that despite the victory in the Gulf War we are able to find ourselves in a situation whereby we're hostage to Saddam Hussein and hostage to a maniacal leader in that part of the world once again. And I think that it's extraordinary that Saddam was able to in effect manipulate Bush and get away with it and not pay very high price thus far and find themselves still still in power. And while Bush is actually do from the from from from his power to this it presents a real dilemma for the administration.

I want a little kind of an off the track because I'm of the question that the questions are not in sequence. But I want to ask you what you think about the bombing of the al-Rashid Hotel in Baghdad. What do we know at this point really and how significant was it from from all sides. In other words whose fault it was perhaps the meeting the fact that there was a meeting of Arab delegates there. Who were they. I mean I'm not I'm sure not certain who they were and what were they meeting about. Well it would be at a lower level meeting of Arab delegates that excluded representatives of the Gulf countries and I really don't think that that meeting was a critical factor. However unfortunate the bombing of the outdoor she told I was I really think that does not play into the the whole question about our relationship with Iraq and what Iraq is going to do Iraq and Saddam will get some propaganda advantage from this. But I don't expect him to. I don't expect the unfortunate incident to really affect the essential questions of the

the. Price of course will raise the issue and question whether in fact we should pursue the same policy Bush what viz a viz Saddam. Given the fact that there isn't a consensus now that we were going to we were pursuing a policy beyond the UN consensus and to the extent that civilians were hurt in that process that creates a greater momentum to somehow change or alter the policy and I expect some sort of change from the current administration. What we're already seeing is you say what you have the reaction from different countries. First of all we're talking about France. They're breaking with us in this military campaign they say they are anyway. And I was talking to someone else a few moments ago about the fact that before the Russians came out and

said that they absolutely disagree with what we had done. They had been meeting for quite a while in East Jerusalem with Palestinians and then came out with this very heavy criticism against the United States for what they're doing with Iraq. So what's what's happening with our. Allies. I think our allies have concluded that the present course by which there is a kind of a stalemate between Saddam Hussein and the allies cannot continue the way it is and that there has to be some sort of change because the status quo will not succeed. And and and there will have to be a change from the administration in Washington and they're signaling Washington quite clearly that they expect some sort of change that they're not going to adhere to the to the Bush administration's line. And the reason for that is simply that from the perspective of the allies the situation as it stands now can go on for another four or eight years. No one can see any end of it. And I think clearly the Clinton crew will also probably reach the same conclusion. And I don't even

believe Sandra that even though Clinton got caught with his pants down last week on Iraq. Yes I think in the final analysis what he will come up with is a policy not of appeasement and not of normalization by a change. I absolutely agree with you. How important is what's going on to governments like Egypt and other Arab nations. Well I think it's very important in the sense that the there is a perception in the Arab world and we have a double standard that we are willing to punish Saddam for for not complying with the U.N. but in Bosnia where Muslims are suffering we are not ready to do that. And given the growing importance and political influence of Islamic fundamentalists it makes the situation doubly hard for the United States. And I'm not really talking here about the the extremists those people who necessarily resort to violence. The fundamentalists in the Middle East have increasingly integrated themselves into political system and into positions of influence. That's particularly true in Jordan and Egypt where they occupy positions in civil society and professional associate Yes political parties and they create tremendous tremendous

pressure on these regimes. Dan how does Saddam Hussein manage to manipulate the fundamentalists. Well he does it I think on a psychological level he portrays himself as a representative of the Muslim and Arab people appeals to their to their self their self esteem and their dignity and beyond that he doesn't make any kind of coherent intellectual case for representing Islam because of course he represents the Baath Party which has always been secular. So he it's an appeal on a psychological level and very effective. Do you think you know when I repeat this again about the whole when when Clinton made the statement about he will hold out an olive branch to. Saddam Hussein showed any signs of changing. It seems to me that ultimately we're going to have to resume our relationship with Iraq if only because of what's going on with the fear of Iran Sudan and every other enemy that we might have around in that region. So you see that you see within time a relationship being built up

again. I cannot see that the Clinton administration is normalizing relations with Baghdad. You can see no I cannot. I think what the Russians will do is pull back and have a kind of a cold war with Iraq in the same way that we've not had relations with Iran but we haven't pursued conflict with Iran. And we will create a policy of containment to make sure that Saddam does not expand his influence to maintain a military presence in the region. But I think that this tit for tat policy that is escalated the last couple weeks is obviously leading nowhere. But the only other option is really to take Saddam out to kill him to pursue him directly. Don't you think that might be really at the bottom of everyone's list even if it's not I'm sure it's on the bottom of the list. The problem is how to put it on the top and how to make the most effective go and I don't think the United States is in a position to bring that about. So I think that the this is some sort of containment and long process of escalation and hostility

between the West and Saddam will probably be the accepted policy. But very quickly though but if we if we do manage to have even that kind of relationship with Iraq won't that help Saddam Hussein as well as his own people are concerned. So they don't want to get rid of him. Well I mean I suppose that's true eventually I think the chickens will come home. Bruce I'm talking about several years perhaps down the way because of the economic situation in Iraq and the lack of resources. But we have to find some way of not normalizing relations. But let's say normalizing the situation normalizing. We have we have a lot of other issues in the Middle East that we have to attend to the real threat real problem here was that American policy was going to be hijacked by this conflict to the detriment of paying attention to other critical issues in the Middle East. Yes. OK as usual it's great to talk with you. Nice talking to you. Bye bye. Dan Brumberg senior fellow at the Carter Institute. And now let's go to John Dempsey on the news this is WBEZ Chicago. And another in the hospital after a train collision this morning in Aurora. Two freight trains

ran into each other in a rail yard there. The dead man's name hasn't yet been released. Safety officials say more tests on signaling equipment will be done today in the probe of a deadly commuter train crash in Gary. Seven people died 69 were hurt in that crash. On Monday top Democrats from Illinois including Mayor Daley are in the nation's capital today for the inauguration of President Bill Clinton and the sale of a Schwinn bicycle company is being completed today. The bankrupt company's new owners are Scott USA which is a bike company based in Idaho and the Zelle Chilmark fund a Chicago based investment group Chicago weather for this afternoon cloudy with rain likely towards evening highs in the upper 30s a 60 percent chance of rain. Right now it's 33 degrees in Chicago. From National Public Radio in Washington. I'm Barbara Campbell the new president is at a luncheon with members of Congress at the Capitol two hours after swearing to protect

and defend the United States in the inaugural speech that followed the oath of office Bill Clinton called for a season of renewal and said there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right with America. Clinton also said an economic revitalization is necessary even if steps to achieve it are painful. We must invest more in our own people in their jobs and in the future and at the same time cut our massive debt and we must do so in a world in which we must compete for every opportunity. It will not be easy. It will require sacrifice but it can be done and done fairly. Not fear of being sacrificed for its own sake but for our own sake we must provide for our nation the way our family provides for its children. Mr Clinton was falling to the microphone by poet Maya Angelou who read her original

work on the pulse of the morning which was written for the inauguration. President Clinton is expected to be at his viewing stand for the inaugural parade in about an hour. The parade itself is getting started and thousands of people have lined Pennsylvania Avenue to watch. NPR's Carolan Clark has more from the Capitol. The Clintons will have the best view from a specially constructed viewing stand in front of the White House. Before reaching that though Bill Clinton is expected to follow the tradition of recent presidents and walk part of the mile and a half long route from the Capitol to the White House. As he has for each of the parade since the second Eisenhower inaugural 65 year old parade announcer Charlie Brotman will be doing the play by play for the new president and his family this year in addition to the traditional high school bands and floats. He'll also be tracking the progress of an Elvis impersonator and guests including the Senate's only native american new Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell. Security is very tight along the parade route. Nearly 5000 policemen and several thousand military personnel

have been mobilized to protect the new president. Carolan Clark at the Capitol. A half dozen anti-abortion protesters carried signs outside the church where Bill Clinton prayed today before his inauguration. The demonstrators placards said Governor Clinton do not mock God. Clinton is expected to live. The Bush administration's ban on discussing abortion with patients at federally funded clinics. Hours before the inauguration a top Chinese trade official urged the new president to improve trade relations. A spokesman for the Ministry of Trade said China hopes the Clinton administration will make its policy based on the overall interests of the two countries. On Wall Street the Dow Jones Industrial averages up almost two points at thirty to fifty seven point eighty seven in heavy trading of 186 million shares. This is NPR News. A man who lived for a record 16 months with an inflated pump helping his diseased heart has died of a stroke.

34 year old Mike Templeton had been suffering from cardiomyopathy a deterioration of his heart. He died in Houston while awaiting a heart transplant. The pump was implanted in his abdomen and powered by a battery pack slung over the shoulder. The French government said today for the first time that the U.S. attack on a factory south of Baghdad Sunday night overstepped U.N. Security Council resolutions. Lynn Terry reports from Paris. The French government initially distance itself from Sunday night's attack by issuing that terse statement after work that said that no French troops or equipment work. Government refused to make any more comments the next day after being badgered by questions from reporters. Spokesmen for President Fox says the bombing was appropriate. The Foreign Ministry has a different view exporting of a weekly cabinet meeting. Foreign Minister said the United States had over Skype if he would mandate. He also said the arrival of a new president in the White House

could open a new phase in the Iraqi crisis. Privately French officials say France is worried about criticism in the Arab world. The coalition is failing to help the folks here. For National Public Radio which carried terrorist the Palestinians stranded in southern Lebanon have erected a banner over their tent camp. It says Welcome to the new Auschwitz concentration camp. The exiles have been stuck in a barren area between Israeli and Lebanese army lines for five weeks. They were expelled from Israel for alleged links to terrorist groups. One of the expelled men said today the more that the more than 400 exiles were engaged in a publicity war with Israel a U.N. envoy said the Security Council is growing quite impatient over the issue. The council has ordered Israel to take the men back. I'm Barbara Campbell. National Public Radio News in Washington. Support for this special inaugural coverage is provided by Continental Bank the Bank that anticipate the needs of business. You're listening to Chicago public radio

station WBEZ Chicago. And this is midday. I'm sándor year. Now let's go to our environmentalist segment with Deborah try on. They almost got away with it earlier this month that Japan tried to ship nearly 2 tons of processed weapons grade plutonium ever so intense because really across the treacherous seas from Europe to Japan. And then as one Japanese official explained the whole thing turned into a public relations disaster. It seems that countries that had suffered under Japan's military ambitions during World War Two were spooked by the thought that that country was now transporting enough nuclear fuel to charge over 100 nuclear weapons in one flight. And it didn't comfort anybody to know that Japan plans to import at least 30 more metric tons of this stuff putting it right up there in the front rank of the world's nuclear powers. Even countries that

believe the Japanese assurances that the plutonium is intended only for nuclear power are alarmed by the possibility that something could go wrong. Other countries might pirate the ship at sea or the ship could catch fire and I think letting go of its extremely toxic cargo reprocessed plutonium onboard is after all so toxic that even a tiny invisible speck of this stuff can cause certain death. But even if absolutely nothing illegal or accidental ever goes on even if everything goes exactly as planned there's still a very long term international danger here that many countries have not yet seen. And that is the danger posed by that pesky dust known as nuclear waste. Japan has only a very few facilities for storing nuclear waste including a new site and we're cochere Japan where officials have

stated that they plan to put the high level waste from their Bandi nuclear power program to rest for the next 20 or 30 years 20 or 30 years may sound like a very long time to us now. But the truth is that nuclear waste days radioactive for thousands or even millions of years far longer than human beings have even existed on the earth which is exactly why Japanese officials have had to literally sell the idea of the nuclear waste disposal in Ricardo to the public still understandably spooked by anything nuclear and having suffered several crippling pollution incidents over the last century of industrial hypergrowth the Japanese public is not in the mood to swallow with smooth assurances of the nuclear industry hold. In fact the new facility in Richar show has recently become the focus of a growing Japanese anti-nuclear movement which government

officials have had to literally buy their way out of the ministry of internal trade and industry and Japan plans to wage any further anti-nuclear criticism by offering local residents some of 18000 million yen over four times the city's current annual budget. If they would only agree and stop complaining. Even so it seems that a number of local residents are so pleased with the waste disposal plans that they they've now filed suit in the Tokyo district court against the minister who approved the facility in the first place. One can only guess. The Japanese government will soon consider dumping the waste from its Bandi nuclear power plants in some other more desperate country willing to shoulder the burden for a tidy sum and that other country will probably agree to the plan happily enough

without quite envisioning the very very long range dangers involved. And that was Deborah dry on our environmentalist. And now let's go to Carol Kliman columnist for The Chicago Tribune. Remember when the colonies broke away from England and became the United States they created a bill of rights. Well a group of women in the United Kingdom is trying to reform our country's institutions and what we're trying to do is to reform the political process to create a constitution to include women's rights. Now the problem is the United Kingdom has no constitution. The group is called Charter 88 and according to Barbara Norton writing in the current issue of Ms Magazine is headed by Halina Kennedy who is a queen's council lawyer which is very top ranking very few women get that far in the legal battles there Kennedy says it's important for British women to get in on the constitutional

debate at the very beginning. And finally it is beginning. And she fears that eventually taken up by the right and if women don't seize the opportunity before the right takes it over. When he says that women will end up with constitutional change but not the kind that women really want. So although women currently have the right to equal opportunities in employment and education under the United Canon sex discrimination act the rights are a little hazy at times a bill of rights which would include a gender equality clause would really take precedent and give people the kind of equality they really deserve. And other women have access to abortion up to 24 weeks. Of course you know it's entirely illegal almost in Northern Ireland. This is only with permission of two doctors who must give the medical reason and a Bill of Rights could slice through all that and give women more access. But most important they try to radiate group feels a bill of rights would educate judges and litigants to think differently with sensitize him about women. She compares the United Kingdom the United States and she says though the United States is not perfect in the

United Kingdom really is lacking. She feels the United States the court are aware that women do have rights no matter how they rule. And she feels that the law can be used much more effectively and be quite empowering. She has written a book called Eve was framed which tells you what she thinks women and British justice is what it's about. And that book is very very popular and she calls for affirmative action to get the proportion of women judges up to 30 percent at least. I'm only 4 percent today. So Charter 88 is aiming for a written constitution by the year 2000 which is not too far away but everything as usual depends on politics. The Conservative Party is opposed to the Bill of Rights. Barbara Norton writes the Labour party will take it up this year some time. However Labour leader John Smith has expressed his support for some of the demands. Not all of them of course being dependent on men to pass legislation is always the situation for women. This is Carol Kliman of the Chicago Tribune for day care.

Thank you Carol. Yesterday on the BBC's World Today our State Department correspondent John Zeff had a chance to reflect on American foreign policy during the Bush and Reagan era. With the outgoing Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger. Here's that report. The change of administration in the United States from Republican to Democrat ends a 12 year period in which the world saw a major change when President Ronald Reagan took the oath of office in 1981 replacing Democrat Jimmy Carter. Iran had just released the 52 American hostages that had been holding for more than 400 days. Iraq was receiving aid and support from Washington in its war against Iran and the Soviet Union as we heard from the president himself in 1983 was considered the epitome of evil to ignore the facts of history and the aggressive impulses of an evil empire to simply call the arms race a giant misunderstanding and thereby remove yourself from the struggle between right and wrong and good and evil.

I ask you to resist the attempts of those who would have you with all your support for our efforts this administration's efforts to keep America strong and free. So we changed today there is no Soviet Union no evil empire. To the delight of the Americans democracy has sprouted in parts of Eastern Europe and much of Latin America. But to that concern the demise of the Soviet Union has spawned an uncertainty which in turn has resulted in wars and outbreaks of ethnic violence. The outgoing American secretary of state Mr. Lawrence Eagleburger is a veteran diplomat who has served in five administrations and told many of the senior jobs in the State Department. Looking back over the past 12 years what do you feel is the legacy of the Republican era. Oh I think that's fairly clear it is the end of the Cold War. It is the collapse of the Soviet Union. It is as you indicated yourself the spread of democracy. Throughout much of Eastern

Europe and hopefully over time and what was the Soviet Union as well. And it is I think the beginnings of a new architecture if I can use the term. For the post-Cold War period and I would not argue for a moment that we. Got the blueprint worked out. But I think we have laid a good foundation for the next administration to continue to build. And I think over the course of the last 12 years it would be hard to argue. That it is not the United States some 12 years of Republican administration that accomplished a great deal in changing the world in which we live now. Admittedly there are still going to be a lot of problems but we no longer I think face. The threat of a nuclear war when we no longer face. The. Sterility of a bipolar world. Much has been made of Mr. Bush's new world order that at the end of the Cold War appear to have so much promise. What we seem to have now is a sort of New World Disorder.

A few days ago you told members of the Foreign Service that it was a nasty world out bam. What's going on. Well first of all I don't think it's ever been anything but a nasty world out there. I wouldn't that that's just popped up overnight. I think again it is important to make clear that when President Bush talked about a new world order he never claimed that it was there. What he said was We now had the opportunity to create a new world order with the collapse of the bipolar world and that that was going to take a lot of hard work but that it was a real opportunity. What's gone wrong if you want to put it that way is I think nothing that any sensible historian wouldn't have predicted in the first place namely when an empire collapses there is inevitably a vacuum and there is inevitably great instability that follows from that. You have to look at the post French Revolutionary period the post Russian revolutionary period and you say the same kinds of consequences. Just those two examples we're facing another

period exactly like that and we ought not be surprised that there is a great deal of instability. We don't face any longer. I think the danger of a nuclear holocaust. But what we do face is what is historically far more typical namely an unstable world in which uncertainties prevail and in which we are seeing once again what too many people I think hope to disappear that is ethnic tensions ethnic murder. But we should not have been surprised by its coming. The issue now is how do we deal with that and how over a period of time it will take time. Do we create the kind of world architecture if I can use the term again that points us in the direction of bringing stability out of what is potentially chaos. Well when the inauguration is over and the parties are done and the incoming administration sits down to the first day of the next four years what are the main issues that your successor is going to find on his desk. President Karzai said the other

day in an interview that with the exception of President Truman Mr. Clinton faces more problems than any other president. Would you agree with that. Well I'm not sure I agree with that completely. I think in many ways I would. Well let's put it this way Mr. Clinton faces more obvious problems than most presidents. I'm not sure that the problems facing Harry Truman look as obvious as some of those Mr. Clinton does. But I would also argue that Mr. Bush over the course of the last four years faced a whole host of problems again many of which when he entered office were not clear. One of which was did anybody expect the Soviet Union would no longer exist at the end of that four year period and that the consequences of that would have to be dealt with. Yes Mr. Clinton faces a number of very serious problems. There are consequences if I may say that one more time fundamentally of a major change in the world order. And I can't emphasize it better to say enough. The importance of understanding that with the collapse of the Soviet Union

a whole host of new and new only in the sense that we haven't had to deal with most of them for the last 50 years are back with us again. He's got a tough row to hoe. The areas that I think are going to be most important to him certainly dealing in Europe with both west and east with the consequences of the collapse of the Soviet Union bringing Eastern Europe into the family of democratic nations and economically viable. Doing what we can to support the reform process. And what was the Soviet Union and particularly Russia and Ukraine. And it is at the same time it seems to me terribly important for this new administration to recognize. That none of the other issues that we will all face together. I mean by that the British the French all of us. None of these issues are going to be easily dealt with unless the major Western democracies and I include Japan. Are prepared to recognize that there needs to be collaboration or cooperation as much competition. So a

fundamental. Issue for the new president is to build on the transatlantic relationship and to strengthen the Transpacific relationship. What do you see the failings in the transatlantic relationship when it comes to dealing with a crisis such as Bosnia. Over the past few days people have been quite critical of the European allies and accusing them of not moving fast enough to deal with the crisis. Well what more could they have done to stop went on Bosnia itself. That to me it's an important issue but it's not fundamental to the point I'm trying to make with regard to the transatlantic relationship. We and some of our European allies disagree on how fast we should implement the resolution enforcing the no fly zone. That's an issue of the time but it's a it's an irritant but it's not a fundamental question. And as far as Yugoslavia in general is concerned yes there have been differences. Some differences between the U.S. and the Europeans in this regard. But the fundamental point has been

that the Europeans themselves cannot agree on how to deal with the question the United States has an important role to play in trying to solve that mess. But it is after all also a European problem and the only suggestion I can give you there is that it is important I think. For all of us to recognize we're going to have to deal with that problem over some months maybe years to come. But at the same time to dither over specifics such as enforcing the no fly zone. But instead of moving to to a quick decision simply give the participants and Yugoslavia a sense that we're not serious talking of long term problems. How much of a long term problem do you think Iraq is going to pose to your successor Mr. Christopher. Well my attitude on the Iraq issue is that it's not a problem of any magnitude despite what's going on in the last several weeks. So long as the international

community stays with the U.N. sanctions so long as Iraq continues to be isolated from the rest of the world economically and politically. I do not think it is a major threat to the peace and stability of the region as it was prior to the war. He is a pain in the neck. And he can be awkward on occasion and he can be difficult. But he also can be dealt with. It is only if the international community begins to fray at the edges on support for the sanctions and for isolating Iraq that he will once again be a serious problem. Let me move on to China which the Clinton administration had said that they would review certain things be the most favored nation trading status and seem to be rolling back from campaign promises. Do you see from from what we've heard over the past few days and weeks any change any any major change in U.S. policy towards China. Hard to tell. Certainly during the campaign Mr. Clinton indicated a

difference of view on how to deal with China. We'll have to see what develops. I have personally to believe that the Bush approach was the correct one. And that was you cannot ignore the events of Tiananmen Square and its aftermath and we didn't. At the same time you need to recognize that if you want to change the character. Of the government the way it deals with its people and try and the best way to do so is to remain engaged. Another issue that's only on the plate is it well for them to deal with is the U.S. relationship with Vietnam through the last few months. We seem to have been watching as you and the Vietnamese have been moving closer to some kind of. Diplomatic or quasi diplomatic relationship. How is that happening. There is no question that with. Major changes in. The way in which the Vietnamese surrounded the WMI issue with us. That the Bush administration had been prepared to take some steps to. Reduce the

impediments to a different relationship. Let's put it that way. We have by no means gone all the way nor is there by any means a clear totally clear evidence from from Vietnam that they have stopped playing games on the prisoner of war missing in action issue. But I guess I would say that the administration is coming into power. Will find itself in a far better position to move toward a more normal relationship Vietnam than we were four years ago because of what's happened over the course of the last six eight months. Mr. Secretary you've been a diplomat a long time. In 1957 you started in the ranks of the foreign service you served in Latin America. You ambassador to Yugoslavia now the secretary of state after more than 30 years of dealing with foreign policy of the United States. Are there any tasks you wish you could have accomplished. Is that unfinished business that you'd like to have wrapped up before you leave. I think it is important to understand that in the conduct of the Foreign Relations the United States or

any other country you never accomplish everything in fact very often successful diplomacy is putting a problem off until it changes in character and becomes more soluble. It's very seldom you can say that was a real success and it ended a problem. Things I would like to have a go at it. Obviously it is with great regret that I say we haven't solved. The problem. I've just said that very badly because neither we nor anybody from outside can solve that problem of the various Yugoslav parties aren't prepared to solve it. But we have not been able to. Succeed with others in bringing that horrible mess to an end. I regret that I'm not at all sure I know how we could have done it much differently but that's a different question. Aside from that large I'm going to leave here. Feeling reasonably satisfied largely because of things we've already talked about George Bush and Jim Baker. By and large dealt with the collapse of an empire and the prevention of

real warfare as a consequence of that. Dealt with trying to rebuild an international system as a result of the collapse of that empire and it set the stage I think for the kind of international action that over time to build the new world order that we all talked about. So. Fundamentally I think the last four years has been really successful. Do you have any words of advice to your successor when he takes over. Yes. Be careful. And what happens to Larry Eagleburger private citizen. Well I haven't quite figured that out. I hope spend more time with my family although my wife has reminded me that the marriage contract does not include lunch. Other than that I will try to find a job or two to. See if I can rebuild my bank account which is in very sad shape right now. Mr. Secretary thank you very much and good luck. That edition of The World Today was presented by the BBC's State Department correspondent

John Zahn. WBEZ programming is supported in part by Kim Abrams design bringing together word images and ideas for marketing communications that work this afternoon at 2:00 o'clock. We will hear from Bill Clinton's campaign manager James Carville. He spoke with the National Press Club. We'll hear his address this afternoon at two o'clock and then at 3:00 o'clock on FRESH AIR. Terry Gross talks with satirist Harry Shearer about the inauguration and she will also talk to Elvis Costello about his new record a collaboration with a string quartet. That's this afternoon at 3:00 on FRESH AIR. I'm Noah Adams. Later today at the inauguration of Bill Clinton's Forty-Second president speech the parade and the poem. Plus the festivities in Washington D.C. as filtered through the minds of writers Andrei Codrescu barely white British may Grosvenor and bugger. Today NPR's All Things Considered. Join us this afternoon all things considered begins at 4 o'clock here on listener supported

radio WBEZ Chicago. The executive producer of midday is Sandra Gere. The producer is Jerome MCDONEL today's engineer was born I guess. This is WBEZ Chicago BBC World Service. This is news desk with Crighton and roar of the headlines in Washington was the Bill Clinton has been sworn in as the new president of the United States. In his inaugural address he promised to reinvigorate and renew America. We'll hear in a moment from our correspondents in the American capital. Only hours before the inauguration. France criticized the Americans over some the of these missile attack on Iraq. Members of the sofa both men said Parliament have approved the first stage of the peace plan for Bosnia-Herzegovina. United Nations envoy visiting Jerusalem has expressed impatience over the plight of the Palestinians still stranded in southern Lebanon after the expulsion by Israel last month. Also in the program a warning that

Russia is on the verge of hyperinflation. And a report from Stockholm on what appears to be a new case of the smuggling of human beings. In his inaugural speech as president of the United States Mr. Clinton has promised to reinvigorate and renew America and cut the country's massive debt. He paid tribute to the outgoing president Mr. Bush but said his administration inherited a weakened economy. He said poverty fear of crime the cost of health care and unemployment impoverish the lives of millions of Americans. Mr. Clinton said that in the face of the profound and powerful forces which would be making the world the United States had drifted that he promised that the drift was over on foreign affairs. He said the collapse of communism had called forth old animosities and new dangers. The world was now more free but less stable. First of all reports from Washington. He has not

all. It was the briefest of ceremonies and yet one of enormous moments with President Bush and world leaders looking on and tens of thousands of Americans watching from the long miles stretching down from Capitol Hill. The focus was on Bill Clinton standing with his right hand raised his last on the King James Bible given to him by his grandmother as a child. William Jefferson Clinton do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the office of president of the United States and I will faithfully execute the office of president of the United States as a candidate. Bill Clinton was known for his long speeches but his first action as president wants to deliver one of the shortest inauguration addresses in history. Exactly 14 minutes in length emphasizing the generational change that was taking place. President Clinton said it was time to reinvent America. Each generation must define what it means to be an American he said walking back

to his namesake and predecessor Thomas Jefferson believed that to preserve the very foundations of our nation we wouldn't need dramatic change from time to time. Well my fellow Americans this is our time. Let us embrace it. Clinton said the era of deadlocking dressed in American politics was over a new season of renewal had begun. He called on Americans to be prepared for sacrifice. It was time to break the bad habits of expecting something for nothing he said looking to America's place in the world. You know the passing of the old order and the Cold War. The new world was more free but less stable he said when the vital interests of the United States were challenged all the international community to fight the country would act with peaceful diplomacy when possible with force when necessary. But he said nations share common problems. Now the world economy the world environment the world AIDS

crisis the world arms race affects us all he said. Well then President Clinton stressed the importance of domestic issues. During his speech and throughout the election campaign I'll skip foreign policy concerns are likely to dominate his short term agenda not least among them will be the continuing confrontation between the United States and Iraq. Our correspondent John Ziv assesses the scale of the task facing the Forty-Second president of the United States. The last Democratic president Mr. Jimmy Carter said a few days ago that President Clinton is inheriting more problems than any president in recent memory and that may be true. Certainly a candidate Clinton made a lot of promises. Among them pledging to give temporary asylum to political refugees from Haiti to link most favored nation trading status for China to progress on human rights and at home the annual federal budget deficit in four years save a hundred thousand million dollars in defense spending over the next five years. Reverse the ban on homosexuals in the military and increase funding for

AIDS research. Among many others but President Clinton may have a much harder time keeping those promises than Candidate Clinton had making them already moved away from granting Haitians temporary asylum. He appears to be shifting his position on China. He's backing down from his pledge to halt the federal deficit and he seems reluctant to make good on his promise to allow homosexuals into the military. Still Mr. Clinton has promised to be an agent of change and even if he finds that being president is more difficult than getting to be president there is for the moment a well of support for him that will allow him a little leeway but not for long. The American health care system is in desperate need of an overhaul. And candidate Clinton promised to do that. It's a core issue and one that would affect millions of voters. If President Clinton fails to deliver despite having wanted to focus on domestic issues it does seem that Mr. Clinton's first real tests will come sooner than anticipated and come from overseas whether it be in dealings with Iraq

or America's European allies on the crisis in Bosnia and reporting on the inauguration of President Clinton. Well Jan Ziff and Chris not all in Washington. The inauguration of President Clinton comes at a difficult time in relations between the United States and the European community. There have been differences over several issues including the crisis in the former Yugoslavia and how to liberalize World Trade at the European Parliament is to the elements. The foreign minister of Denmark which currently holds the community presidency has urged Europe to strengthen its ties with the United States from Scottsburg. Our European affairs correspondent Graham Leetch looks at the future for relations between Europe and the new administration. The 40 years of the Cold War look to Europe and America into a common alliance with a common enemy. The end of that confrontation is strained the cement binding the allies the new trans-Atlantic relationship remains to be defined

in the view of many Americans. The Yugoslav crisis is exposed as hollow Europe's claim to superpower status. The United States still feels unable to offload the burden of international security even in Europe's own backyard. For their part moves east see countries recognize the importance of strong ties with the United States. Hence the hope that President Clinton concern about domestic issues will not result in an inward looking America. He was put in the same direction. Denmark's minister of some of the challenges we are facing right now both with regard to economic problems and political problems. Europe and North America has to move together and find common solutions to all these problems. There are strains. We have to find ways of solving those strange problems together.

A priority for the ANC will be to try to engage the new administration in a joint effort to lift the World out of recession. But the hopes for that remain frail given the continued deadlock in the world trade talks which Mr. Clinton inherits as the most pressing transatlantic issue. GRAHAM beach in Strasburg unless you've had the confrontation with Iraq is likely to be the most pressing issue facing President Clinton. The three strikes on targets in Iraq. Ordered by his predecessor Mr. Bush has significantly raised tension in the Gulf region. All them as Clinton played no role in the decision to launch the strikes. He had given his full support to the outgoing administration for the action in the Gulf. The unilateral cease fire announced yesterday by Iraq does appear to be holding. We hear now from Michael McMillan in Baghdad that the Iraqi government appears unsure about the intentions of President Clinton. On the streets of Baghdad for the past two years the chances sided with

Bush. To change the world today. I'm sure it should be. The government is so far handled the name Clinton kid gloves. The self-initiated cease fire is what the Iraqis describe as a gesture to the new administration. The Revolution Command Council the expression of good will toward the American people. And those numbers of peace and justice in the world. Praising peace for the president. But the same does not apply to his predecessor. Today's official our newspaper right. Bush should commit suicide to get rid of his Iraq complex. I lock him in a room with the Iraqi flag. The paper proclaimed God make him blind cripple him axes like him. The Iraqi government has constantly accused President Bush of conducting a personal vendetta against Saddam Hussein. They want to test the

water with President Clinton. There's a chance won't be quite as easy as it was before. Michael McMillen in Baghdad ended today the French foreign minister Mr. Dumas accused the Bush administration of going beyond United Nations resolutions in last Sunday's cruise missile attack on the outskirts of Baghdad. But he told a cabinet meeting in Paris that a new president in the White House should ease tensions with Iraq. This report from our Paris correspondent Stephen Jessel. Mr. Dumas told the Cabinet that the American military action last Sunday which struck the outskirts of Baghdad went beyond the resolutions passed by the United Nations Security Council. He went on to hope that the arrival of President Clinton would open a new phase of the crisis and lead to an easing of tension. So he added that President Saddam Hussein should respect United Nations decisions and not for evocatively. Mr. Graham his remarks reported by the official government spokesman are hard to reconcile with

those of other senior officials. Bridget Crawford did not take part in the raid on