Washington Week In Review; 329

You You You You You More revelations

and some Resignations in the Watergate case one of the stories tonight on Washington Week in review Here is moderator Robert McNeil Good evening It's been an extraordinary week of rumor and revelation and suspense in Washington as the ripples from the Watergate case continued to magnify There's been intense speculation here that President Nixon was preparing a massive purge of White House staff Amid all the rumor there were these hard developments L Patrick Gray resigned today as acting head of the FBI After stories that he had burned secret documents belonging to one of the Watergate conspirators Former Attorney General John Mitchell admitted that he had been present during early discussions of bugging Democratic headquarters Vice President Agnew expressed his strong support for mr. Nixon Work in the Nixon administration reportedly came nearly to a halt as top White House aides conferred with lawyers and issued competing press releases The turmoil virtually obscured the administration's

other growing crisis the virtual collapse of the ceasefire arrangements in Vietnam To discuss these and other stories tonight. We have Neil McNeil chief congressional correspondent of Time magazine Charles Cordray military affairs writer of the Baltimore Sun Peter Lissigore Washington bureau chief of the Chicago Daily News and Helen Thomas the White House correspondent of United Press International will be joining us shortly Pete the pieces of the Watergate story have been coming so fast and from so many directions It's very hard to kind of pull it all together and see what it adds up to can you help us? well Not too much Robin, but I will tell you that it's an incredible bizarre Breath -taking series of events. It's potentially tragic and also shameful What we've witnessed in recent days just about jar as anyone's credulity even the most skeptical man in this town We still have what amounts to an administration investigating itself we have

the Environmental Protection Agency had Bill Ruckel's house named as an acting director of the FBI When one of the reasons mr. Gray was not confirmed was because he was so political Bill Ruckel's house is known as mr. Clean, but he was one of mr. Nixon surrogates in the 1972 election When we questioned him about it this at the White House He's admitted that he was very political, but he said he wasn't going to let politics Enter into this Neil would know what the Senate Judiciary Committee would feel about a thing like that Well, we have so many incredible things. It's difficult really it boggles the mind Jeb McGruder has Jeb Stuart McGruder who was really running the committee to reelect after John Mitchell resigned and he is Resigned from the Commerce Department Ken reads a young member of the Republican National Committee has resigned and He's been involved in this whole affair We have criminal lawyers going in and out of the White House where they have their clients where they're talking to their clients There's a joke going

around that you lack status at the White House today if you don't own your you don't have your own criminal lawyer We have the spectacle of the vice president of the United States patting the president on the head in effect and saying that I have full Confidence and the president's integrity and it's even reached to the Pentagon Papers trial Today the judge out there. I wanted to know more about a memorandum That the Justice Department produced it was contained in a Defense Department report alleging that That the Liddy Gordon Liddy one of the convicted Watergate conspirators and Howard Hunt another convicted Watergate A conspirator burglarized the office of the psychiatrist of the mr. Ellsberg The papers that mr. Gray is alleged to have burned Contained allegations about the late president Kennedy and his handling of the assassination of of the South Vietnamese president Jim

It has to do with senator Kennedy's Chappaquitic experience and it leaves a lot of questions open the questions being left open in this town is how long can the president remain silent about this Kenny hang on to his top assistance as has been reported. He might try How deep must he cut in cleaning house? Will he try to brazen it out as also has been reported and finally why he resists a special Prosecutor appointing a special prosecutor for so long is puzzling one final thing Neil if I may It all it has all of the earmarks of a banana Republic or a Woody Allen movie Repeat on the the last point you're making there the the propriety of the administration at investigating itself What they're investigating now is their own cover -up of The crime of Watergate What confidence can we have? In and in this investigation well, particularly since the man in charge of it. I gather mr. Peterson. I Gather is himself to testify.

Yeah, we have a grand jury We had the testimony of mr. Gray That he Colluded as it were with the presidential counsel John Dean and turning over Watergate file Investigation FBI files in the investigation now. We have the assistant attorney general Henry Peterson Asking for the transcripts of the grand jury testimony the White House says that that information will not be relayed to the White House Will not be relayed to the president Justice Department spokesman says of course mr. Peterson converses with the president very frequently on this matter the question one might ask Can anyone believe that mr. Peterson? Will keep all the relevant information to himself and not give it to the White House when his job and his future Really depends upon the president the United States, but he's exactly how Gray felt right exactly dependent on the president Mr. Agnews remarks this week. We're rather fascinating. I thought if I understood him He said we don't know anything factual except that a group of

people have been Seven men have been Could you could you tell us to get us up to speed is is this a factual statement? Do we know nothing else? Oh, of course, we know a lot of things are many things that are already on the record The participants the alleged participants have talked about them and that mr. Agnew did not deny that He said most of this is hearsay rumor grand jury leaks and so on and then said to cover himself Uh, some of this may later prove to be accurate in which case we will have to face that forthrightly to it But we have already on the record so much the gray memorandum has already confirmed that he sent information FBI files to the White House. We have so many other things Mr. Ehrlichman has already issued two statements both denying charges involving his his role It's already on the record. What is his game? is what is the vice president? I think this is a good question an interesting question I think what the vice president was saying to his own constituents in the

republican party Is that I still think that the president the man of integrity Had confidence in him getting to the bottom of this now lay off for a while fellas, uh, you know Well, he felt he compelled to make a comment. He said so Republican office holders from the president on down are under great pressures to comment So he was making a comment trying in a way to have him vote away Isn't the water behind the dam rising again as it did before mr. Nixon felt forced to make the statement He did last week. mean the new chairman of the republican party. Mr. Bush has has said the president must say more and Former chairman robert dole has been making extremely critical statements Are the is the party beginning to build up more pressure? it a week? think the pressure backstage must be intense and immense Robin we ask about this. I would like to know how many telegrams and telephone calls Come into the white house from republicans all over the country We asked that question of Ziegler this past week, but there was no answer to it He didn't even say i'll try and get the answer for you

The pressure must be intense and and one would think that the longer the president remains silent the More the suspicions the apprehensions the fears will mount in this whole matter I'd like to turn you to the uh back to the ellsberg the burglary the burglarizing of the psychiatrist's office Did that Is there any way to assume that that The orders to do that gave from any place other than the white house No, I think that you have to assume it came from the white house because we already know that charles colson one of the white house Consultants and count. Oh, no, remember the staff Had hired hunt by his own testimony to do some things to look into some itt matters and pentagon papers matters Um while we're waiting for helen to come neil Congress has been in its easter recess. What senator ervin's committee going to do when it gets back So so much has happened since they went away. Well, the ervin committee is not yet ready to Proceed

I talked to the senator yesterday He's down in the carolinas What they uh what they're planning they're watching this very carefully course what's going on with the grand jury The senator is very pleased At the vigor he sees in the grand jury investigation He said if nobody is indicted Of no new indictments Come forward. They've just proceed on the whole business Watergate and everything else said however, if There are a substantial number of indictments he himself would be quite reluctant Even to ask the persons indicted To appear before his committee As you doubtlessly notice the investigation by the grand jury is essentially centered on On the watergate incident the senators Walking papers his authority from the senate Do cover watergate, but they cover the entire election period and

what he would do Instead of watergate if the grand jury handled the watergate and did produce the indictments would be all the uh the various acts of sabotaging we've been reading about the musky campaign for example and also the extraordinary financing of the republican party last year now just today there is a new report of new concealed funds come from the in the gao so they'll have plenty to do and that They will be moving fairly rapidly. would expect them to going in within two or three weeks I had thought uh neil that senator ervin would call judge syrica indicated that he wanted the Defendants in the watergate case to testify before the urban committee Is it because they have been convicted that they would appear and those who would be indicted would not appear? don't quite understand A man who's been convicted Uh, there's a question whether you can question him

if his case is on appeal Uh, the man isn't in effect Asked to incriminate himself while while he's facing a criminal penalty And the same goes for anyone indicted and as ervin says isn't it just Common rule of thumb by lawyers. It just simply be unfair to the person accused Yeah, but there's no appeal involved here five of the defendants Pleading guilty. but there are a couple of appeals But macaw it as I understand it has agreed almost to go before the urban committee and I assume that maybe one or two Others might know these men would be called in but he's he's talking about we're talking really Of indictments of the highest men in the administration. You don't know the answer to this question neil But I want to ask it because there's a point. I know you don't but why does senator ervin feel that the grand jury has moved with such great vigor There are impressions around that the grand jury is acting in somewhat strange ways it hasn't met for several days and And it's not going to meet again until next week and that there might in fact not return all these indictments Everybody is sitting on the edge of their

chair expecting. don't know what's in senator ervin's mind I know it's in mine. Yeah on my own mind tells me that the president acted because of the grand jury because of the imminence of A large batch of indictments of the highest men in his government And this has all come off these these uh this grand jury investigation Well, you say the president acted the president hasn't done much but made a statement saying that Major developments have come to his attention Neal the question of course in everybody's mind is how close this goes to the president and it's now begun The word impeachment has begun to be used in some editorials for instance in the washington star A paper that is supported. Uh, Nixon Since such a move as unlikely as it seems would have to come from the congress Is there any serious talk there yet of anything? That's a good question, uh, robin. I've been listening To congressional hearings for since the beginning of the session and the word impeachment has come up Periodically the first uses of it, which are kind of curious because you don't normally hear that word We're purely neutral innocent kind

of things A meaningless words it's in terms of The authority of congress on the impoundment question. It was really academic mentioning about it Today you're getting a mentioning of it In terms that it might happen I mean, it's not there now, but uh, it's not unthinkable now. It's not on it is still unthinkable, but in terms of This Is wave of indictments we're expecting momentarily from the grand jury perhaps the next fortnight It's only almost be irresistible for some, uh brash member of the house representatives to To move the impeachment of the president they they have a tendency to do that This has already happened in nixon's case as you remember Not as there's any serious terms off the war in vietnam Another area that's Getting some talk around town is the question of uh, subpoenaing the president Either by the grand jury or by the urban committee The senator urban simply won't do it He just doesn't believe in it,

but The question has come up whether the President is in fact subject to a subpoena I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but I have read the constitution some cases off it A president has been subpoenaed president jefferson He was subpoenaed in 187 by john marshall the chief justice of the united states Who gave a ruling at that time that the president of course is subject to subpoena subject to questioning under a subpoena and jefferson Acknowledged a subpoena and Acted under what would have to excuse me charlie. What would have to this is not immediately It's a kind of talk what would have to happen to make a substantial number of responsible members of congress Think that this was the only course left open to them. They'd have to be persuaded in spite of what Attorney general clindings has said in a public meeting incredibly and we talked about this some weeks ago The congress doesn't need facts or evidence The congress doesn't need facts in evidence and the facts and

evidence it needs is a prima facia A case that the president has committed high crimes misdemeanors There is no evidence of that at this time People are wondering Whether the president did in fact at any time Know it was a foot here whether he had pardon me the cover -up that's now being investigated If he did and it's a very big if That would be a temptation to Mila, do you get any sense that in the congress or do you think that the administration witnesses now going before the congress will be a little more Respectful of the legislative process a little less arrogant a little more willing to Well, they Deal with the congress on the old Level of amenities in the vernacular. This is the kind of thing that would give an ordinary fellow a little religion I don't think so I see The nate this isn't going to change

the nature of these men I think this applies also to the the way they treat the press and the confidentiality They're acting a lot more chastened with us. I don't think they're going to pull back in the substantive area The other side of the coin though Is the congress's action towards the presidency and the white house the administration program I think the president Program the whole presidential thrust It's heavily damaged in this area and they will get less and have less and less Credibility with the congress as this thing presumably goes on Helen I'm very glad you're able to join us. I got there's pretty busy time over at the white house Can you really can you describe what the atmosphere and mood of the staff has been like around there this week? Well, it's uh, it's very disturbing. You know, you feel cry the beloved country Uh, the lower echelon staff are Everybody seems to be waiting for the other shoe to fall And uh, we were rather surprised when the president took Ehrlichman and hauldermen along with him to mississippi today And we thought that we should read much into this as sort of a

show of support On the other hand, uh, after we got back and there was all of this flurry of activity We knew something was about to break and we were all predicting many Resignations which didn't come through and then the announced the that ruckles house was taking over for gray and uh While ruckles house was in with the president told him that no matter who was involved in this We're going to get rid of them And but that doesn't seem to be the way he's moving. I mean, we've had We've had speculative stories all week that something imminent was going to break They were going to cream off the whole top of the white house. Well, it hasn't happened at all On the other hand, I think the president has to move cautiously because he really doesn't know You know, uh, the whole business and if he started to move and then many more scandals broke out Who can you can't wait for the next installment reading the newspapers? But ellen, there's a story that uh, and many people feel that the longer the president waits I touched on this when I had my inning here a moment ago

the longer he waits the more Suspicious people are going to be about his own role in it and so on Why is he waiting now? You say he wants to know What the involvement is can't you call a man like hauleman and ehrlichman into your office? If you're president of the states and say bob and john Tell me what what's involved here. And don't we already know enough About the involvement to wonder why the president would delay making some decision Well, I think it's interesting that they made gray take the fall today and ehrlichman who who apparently was If gray is guilty and if the story is true Ehrlichman's the one who handed him the documents and said, you know, they should never see the light of day I don't know. I think all of us are we always expect the president to to Move unexpectedly and he certainly is giving us lots of cause for that. I I didn't think he would wait this long and and But it

seems that There's a cat and mouse game going on if the story is true that dean really said, okay I'll tell all and everybody else has to tell tell all and and you know make a clean rest of it And that the story as the story goes ehrlichman and hauleman, which I can't verify Bulked at that Then I mean there certainly is this this team is falling apart You everything that president prided himself into is there any Is there any thought along the lines of some of the stories in the press that the president has considered bringing in somebody like secretary of state rogers or melvin layered To go over his staff to revamp the whole thing. I'd love to have a log on his telephone calls for the past five days I believe he really has been trying to consult with everybody He's ever known, you know, he needs a few mr. Cleans around now and the old tried and true friends He's turned back to mr. Finch bob finch for wine on and rogers He went on the sequoia with last monday night

the night before he made his statement and I think that he definitely feels the need for all friends and and today he dropped in on A party given for 300 white house secretaries National secretary week and he made some crack while maybe you can depend more on your secretaries than your administrators Which I thought was very telling hillan Seems to me that we or we've been discussing so far only one of three utterly intractable problems The president's got indochine on the economy being the others What do you know you or Pete about mr. Nixon's mood? Itself is he terribly depressed? Is he gloomy? Does anybody know? Well, when he was on the platform today, uh, someone said they saw tears in his eyes I didn't see that but I felt that uh, he was glad to have stennis there and he was representing the old strength and and and Very friendly crowd and that was very heartwarming for him. Uh, he looks very tired You can tell that he's been through this great decision process, but uh I don't see that he's going to suddenly

become the great Compassionate man and and then say well now we're going to have a make His minister on Easter Sunday said now look anybody can be forgiven for anything All you got to do is make a courageous statement break off with some of your old friends and enemies and but I don't see that I think the president's about to fight back And uh, they say that this man wilson is a combative type. have to ask you about wilson Who is he working for camp? We're not sure is he working for the president? This is the lawyer that's been advertised to be the uh, to have hold him in an early He seems to be meeting as much with the president as he is with hold him in an early morning. It's very strange because you know, uh Ron gives you the his annual he's giving the president perspectives on the case Well, you say when you press he says well, I know no further details and he uses this jargon that is so obfuscation Really, we really don't know and it's very very strange that the president would be consulting with a lawyer for too

possible When he has an administration full of president label As charlie mentioned the joke around town get a charlie mentioned there is an other story And and that's southeast Asia's even getting on the front pages of the newspapers a little bit Um, we've escalated our protest this week about the violations of the ceasefire and the whole situation there seems to be Deteriorating even further than it was a week ago when we were here. What what is the situation deteriorating if you think there's deterioration around here? um Mr. Kissinger is apparently going to paris to try to get leduck toe to help him put the ceasefire back together again I leave you lady and gentleman to assess what good fortune he may have there the uh Two countries have been exchanging notes about violations of the ceasefire and one thing another the Key probably is cambodia where things are going from very bad too much worse A government which is

crumbling is certainly unable to inspire its forces in the field to Fight they're not groups of little Rebels are running around cutting the roads and being bombed by great tons of bombs and There's absolutely no end out in sight Senator simington issued a report today from two staff investigators who've just been there for a month Who who say that unless And they may have something there the less p king and mosca are willing to pitch in and help us get a settlement in cambodia The war there could go on as long as we are willing to bomb in support of an army that is unwilling to defend itself Charlie you're dr. Henry kissinger, and i'm laiduck toe and we sit down in mid -may You're in parents. I'm laiduck toe and you're dr. Kissinger. What can you tell me? american policy, what can kissinger tell Layduck toe, what can he say to him if you don't straighten up and fly right? We're gonna clobber you back into the stone age like the other i think uh kissinger

I'm told he's never speaks plaintively, but it read plaintively In new york this week when he said what can we do if we can't offer threats or incentives? And uh to answer that there's practically nothing he can do That it seems to me would cause hanoi to reverse any course it's taken My own thought This is not kissinger talking to toe is that uh probably the old layered vietnamization and get out Thing is where we're coming down. Anyway, what about the aid inducement is that I never thought that that was much investment to them anyway. I've heard that that's the new That's still they're clinging to the idea that we go the aid route Well, they've never let it they have not since january 27 let it inhibit them in any case Of course, they wanted to tell you me ask you a question about the bombing that came out today that They've been averaging 240 sorties. Yeah, I'd like to ask you a series of questions on this one. Does this make any sense? To how heavy a bombing is this? What does a plane carry?

And uh, how does that compare with the bombing of vietnam? Well, is it as heavy or or what? I think it's not as heavy as the It's heavy in north vietnam or south vietnam at various times, but to me it's extremely heavy Just as an absolute fact because 60 of these every day are b 52s and you can multiply that by 24 you have around 1500 tons a day If you're bombing in the border areas, it makes military sense Much of the bombing is around non -pen. It makes no sense whatsoever What are they hitting? I don't think they're hitting anything trees. Uh, I think it's but uh, I mean Is the simington reported they showed they're using old maps. They're not sure. They're hitting what they're aiming at. That's it I'm afraid Helen. you very much for joining us. We'll be back next week with another washington week in review I'm robert mcneil. Good night Oh

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